karch Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 I was watching all these news programs yesterday. Some showed interviews of Timothy McVeigh that were taken like 4-5 months ago. Anyways in one of the interviews, McVeigh said that: If the US goverment uses violence, such as in Sudan, Afganistan, and Iraq. Violence should be able to be used against the US goverment.I think there rings a truth in that, that people don't really see. Our goverment kills so many innocent people, like in the areas of the world as was stated above. They don't get punished for it. The US goverment might be the biggest terrorist in the world.------------------Use BROWN EYES guest list at Exit Fridays!!!*Did you find your ecstacy?*E-mail: PrimeKMB2@aol.comAIM: PrimeKMB2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armada Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by karch:I was watching all these news programs yesterday. Some showed interviews of Timothy McVeigh that were taken like 4-5 months ago. Anyways in one of the interviews, McVeigh said that: If the US goverment uses violence, such as in Sudan, Afganistan, and Iraq. Violence should be able to be used against the US goverment.I think there rings a truth in that, that people don't really see. Our goverment kills so many innocent people, like in the areas of the world as was stated above. They don't get punished for it. The US goverment might be the biggest terrorist in the world.Uh, good point. Let's all bomb gov't buildings then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmb1975 Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by armada: Uh, good point. Let's all bomb gov't buildings then!Sarcasm noted....This all goes back to the original argument of do two wrongs make a right? If they kill, then does that give us the right to kill, and if so can they kill back?Its a vicious circle.------------------The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted June 12 Author Report Share Posted June 12 Well, I don't think was Timothy McVeigh did was right. That was totally wrong and cowardly. I'm just saying isn't that what the US goverment does also? People don't realize that I think.------------------Use BROWN EYES guest list at Exit Fridays!!!*Did you find your ecstacy?*E-mail: PrimeKMB2@aol.comAIM: PrimeKMB2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 oh dear... this guy was a nut. As for America doing "bad things".... which country doesn't?THis cannot excuse the fact that he planted a bomd that killed so many people... it wouldn't excuse it if he killed one person.Again, as stated 3 times already... don't believe in death pena as no one has the right to kill anyone else... no matter what the excuse.matt------------------ Stones Roses - Paint PromoAIM: mattarrundale1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 I think you all mistake the point of the original post...in McVeigh's eyes, he was fighting a "war" against the government, thus all employees of the Federal govt were his "enemies" - the children killed were casualties of his "war". How many children are killed when the US makes a retaliatory strike against supposed terrorist hide-outs? How about Vietnam? Hundreds and thousands of people were killed for American principles...also did the American govn. even attempt to track down all those soldiers who massacred villagers? Do you think they were put to death? And Vietnam was not even an official "war".What Tim McVeigh did was very wrong, but don't turn around and think that you're living in a country where righteousness always prevails. The democracy we live in right now is based on the blood of citizens of other countries(and this country). Just because its a govt that commits atrocities does not mean that they cannot be called terrorists.All I'm saying is know the world you live in, and don't act so righteous in the face of others' wrong-doings.------------------"I would believe only in a god who could dance."Nietzche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Well, it's unfortunate that sometimes innocent citizens, children included, die when we attack another country. But 99% of the time, it is necessary to stop some of these foreign countries from going too far.You might not be living in such a beautiful and free country if not for those attacks.Fuck McVeigh! He didn't deserve to die so easily. They should have tortured that little pussy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Even going by your numbers....is it OK that 1% of the time its massacre? How many ppl is 1% - a hundred, a thousand? AND at the same time you're condemning McVeigh? Thats hypocricy. You see - this is what I mean - DOUBLE STANDARD. Most ppl are too blind to see it. Originally posted by danm:Well, it's unfortunate that sometimes innocent citizens, children included, die when we attack another country. But 99% of the time, it is necessary to stop some of these foreign countries from going too far.You might not be living in such a beautiful and free country if not for those attacks.Fuck McVeigh! He didn't deserve to die so easily. They should have tortured that little pussy.------------------"I would believe only in a god who could dance."Nietzche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacychase Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by raver_mania:Even going by your numbers....is it OK that 1% of the time its massacre? How many ppl is 1% - a hundred, a thousand? AND at the same time you're condemning McVeigh? Thats hypocricy. You see - this is what I mean - DOUBLE STANDARD. Most ppl are too blind to see it. Raver I totally see your point, however speaking for myself and I may sound foolish saying this..... Is that TMcVeigh did something that we consider against the law in HIS OWN COUNTRY.... He was not in a foreign land defending so called freedom and our civil liberties. Also in Vietnam, the soliders did not know good from bad.... How many of them did what they did, out of fear that this was the enemy. However we all know that wars are generally fought on the grounds of defending our economic interests.... However I still do not agree with his actions and 99% of the time, I do not agree with the governments actions when they go to foreign countries. I think we have so many problems here in the good ole USA, that we should work on before we worry about others!!!------------------Life can only be understood backward, but it must be lived forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by stacychase: Originally posted by raver_mania:Even going by your numbers....is it OK that 1% of the time its massacre? How many ppl is 1% - a hundred, a thousand? AND at the same time you're condemning McVeigh? Thats hypocricy. You see - this is what I mean - DOUBLE STANDARD. Most ppl are too blind to see it. Raver I totally see your point, however speaking for myself and I may sound foolish saying this..... Is that TMcVeigh did something that we consider against the law in HIS OWN COUNTRY.... He was not in a foreign land defending so called freedom and our civil liberties. Also in Vietnam, the soliders did not know good from bad.... How many of them did what they did, out of fear that this was the enemy. However we all know that wars are generally fought on the grounds of defending our economic interests.... However I still do not agree with his actions and 99% of the time, I do not agree with the governments actions when they go to foreign countries. I think we have so many problems here in the good ole USA, that we should work on before we worry about others!!!Stacy - no its not foolish at all, in fact, thats one very important difference between what he did, and the actions of the govt abroad. Its just frustrating to see people blindly condemning the man for his actins (a very terrible, terrible action), while at the same time are too naive to realize its happening all around them in the name of "good". Or just too hypocritical.I'm against the death penalty...in my opinion thats trying to right a wrong by committing another wrong.As an aside, however shocking this bombing may be, it pales in significance compared to whats happening in the rest of the world. OK, time to get some work done at work!------------------"I would believe only in a god who could dance."Nietzche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by stacychase: Originally posted by raver_mania:Even going by your numbers....is it OK that 1% of the time its massacre? How many ppl is 1% - a hundred, a thousand? AND at the same time you're condemning McVeigh? Thats hypocricy. You see - this is what I mean - DOUBLE STANDARD. Most ppl are too blind to see it. Raver I totally see your point, however speaking for myself and I may sound foolish saying this..... Is that TMcVeigh did something that we consider against the law in HIS OWN COUNTRY.... He was not in a foreign land defending so called freedom and our civil liberties. Also in Vietnam, the soliders did not know good from bad.... How many of them did what they did, out of fear that this was the enemy. However we all know that wars are generally fought on the grounds of defending our economic interests.... However I still do not agree with his actions and 99% of the time, I do not agree with the governments actions when they go to foreign countries. I think we have so many problems here in the good ole USA, that we should work on before we worry about others!!!Stacy - no its not foolish at all, in fact, thats one very important difference between what he did, and the actions of the govt abroad. Its just frustrating to see people blindly condemning the man for his actins (a very terrible, terrible action), while at the same time are too naive to realize its happening all around them in the name of "good". Or just too hypocritical.I'm against the death penalty...in my opinion thats trying to right a wrong by committing another wrong.As an aside, however shocking this bombing may be, it pales in significance compared to whats happening in the rest of the world. OK, time to get some work done at work!------------------"I would believe only in a god who could dance."Nietzche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubgodraver Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 why would ne one defend that piece of shit...u people make me sick------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacychase Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by clubgodraver:why would ne one defend that piece of shit...u people make me sickNobody has defended what he has done. Raver was attempting to show us another point of view. I for appreciate his convictions and the fact that he is not afraid to express his point of view, without being mean or malicious. I think we all agree that Tim McVeigh did a terrible thing, I think the differences that some of us on this board/post have is how he was punished.------------------Life can only be understood backward, but it must be lived forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubgodraver Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by stacychase: Originally posted by clubgodraver:why would ne one defend that piece of shit...u people make me sickNobody has defended what he has done. Raver was attempting to show us another point of view. I for appreciate his convictions and the fact that he is not afraid to express his point of view, without being mean or malicious. I think we all agree that Tim McVeigh did a terrible thing, I think the differences that some of us on this board/post have is how he was punished.how can you question how he was punished? he got off very easy...he died a quick death, unlike his victims. he deserved a much harsher punishment than he was dealt, and i didn't mean to come off in that way.------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittn920 Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 it's true that the government sometimes kills innocent people in foriegn countires. but it is not done intentionally. for example in iraq missles were stationed next to villages in hopes that we would not destroy them b/c there were children living there...it's a sick thing to do. and i'm sorry but shit happens. People in other countries would do the same thing to us. i know it sucks, that innocent people have to die, but sometimes a few people have to die in order to protect an entire country..but unfortunately that's life. ------------------"I always get what I aim for and your heart and soul is what I came for"<3 920-143 <3[This message has been edited by kittn920 (edited 06-12-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacychase Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by clubgodraver: Originally posted by stacychase: Originally posted by clubgodraver:why would ne one defend that piece of shit...u people make me sickNobody has defended what he has done. Raver was attempting to show us another point of view. I for appreciate his convictions and the fact that he is not afraid to express his point of view, without being mean or malicious. I think we all agree that Tim McVeigh did a terrible thing, I think the differences that some of us on this board/post have is how he was punished.how can you question how he was punished? he got off very easy...he died a quick death, unlike his victims. he deserved a much harsher punishment than he was dealt, and i didn't mean to come off in that way.I question how he was punished because I do not advocate the death penalty. I think making him sit in a cell for the rest of his life would have been far worse.------------------Life can only be understood backward, but it must be lived forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastyt Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Originally posted by stacychase: I question how he was punished because I do not advocate the death penalty. I think making him sit in a cell for the rest of his life would have been far worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistednick Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 What is wrong with you people. What he did is flat out wrong. So what is the US bombs other contries. Even though sometimes it is fucked up, there is a reason why it is done and most of the time it is a good reason. McVeigh is a piece of confused shit. He is white trash to the fullest and he got off to easy with the death penality. They should have put in in general population in jail for the rest of his life and became everones bitch just for starters. We live in the greatest country in the world and you mother fuckers should learn to respect it. If you dont like it get the fuck out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armada Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by cmb1975: Sarcasm noted....This all goes back to the original argument of do two wrongs make a right? If they kill, then does that give us the right to kill, and if so can they kill back?Its a vicious circle.So he was bombing that building in response to this distroted sense of righteousness that he has against the violence committed by the U.S.? I think he was hiding behind that. I love your signature and when I just noticed it, it gave me feelings of hope, pride, and even motivated me a bit. This guy would find a negative in your quote and then say he killed others because of it. He didn't want to see any hope. He wanted to be angry and hurt, maim and kill no matter what. He could have blown that building up at night when it was empty and made his supposed statement againt the gov't. He had not statement or purpose other than he wnated to be angry and hurt. He was happy that he could find negatives and use that as a front for his act. That is spineless and ignorant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubManiac Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by karch:I was watching all these news programs yesterday. Some showed interviews of Timothy McVeigh that were taken like 4-5 months ago. Anyways in one of the interviews, McVeigh said that: If the US goverment uses violence, such as in Sudan, Afganistan, and Iraq. Violence should be able to be used against the US goverment.I think there rings a truth in that, that people don't really see. Our goverment kills so many innocent people, like in the areas of the world as was stated above. They don't get punished for it. The US goverment might be the biggest terrorist in the world.did he give any examples of this violence? did he mean random acts or acts of war? just wondering...------------------~PO~J-Man_______ANd On The CooL chECkin, CEnTER STaGE ON tHE MiC, And WEre Puttin iT ON WAx, Its THe new sTYyyyyyyyle!!!hmmm...GET ON THE FLOOR AND DANCE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armada Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by karch:Well, I don't think was Timothy McVeigh did was right. That was totally wrong and cowardly. I'm just saying isn't that what the US goverment does also? People don't realize that I think.I think that if you want to raise awareness of injustices by the US gov't, it's probably a mistake to do so accompanied by a quote from Timothy McVeigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by armada: I think that if you want to raise awareness of injustices by the US gov't, it's probably a mistake to do so accompanied by a quote from Timothy McVeigh.That's what people said about Dr. Martin Luther King.------------------Use BROWN EYES guest list at Exit Fridays!!!*Did you find your ecstacy?*E-mail: PrimeKMB2@aol.comAIM: PrimeKMB2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armada Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by karch: That's what people said about Dr. Martin Luther King.Please , please please do not equate McVeigh to Martin Luther King!! This is getting worse and worse!!! WTF??!!! And who said that? [This message has been edited by armada (edited 06-12-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 I did not try to equate Dr. Martin Luther King with Timothy McVeigh. I was just saying about 50 years ago. People thought Martin Luther King's views were radical. And a lot of people hated him and his views. You see what the goverment did to all the blacks back then. Well, don't get me wrong dude. I ain't saying what Timothy McVeigh did was right. Again, I think it's totally wrong and cowardly. And what he did compared to what Martin Luther King actions shouldn't be compared, cause Martin Luther King preached peacefulness. My arguement was just look at the idea that was stated that's all. Isn't it true, "Our goverment kills so many innocent people, like in the areas of the world as was stated above. They don't get punished for it. The US goverment might be the biggest terrorist in the world." ------------------Use BROWN EYES guest list at Exit Fridays!!!*Did you find your ecstacy?*E-mail: PrimeKMB2@aol.comAIM: PrimeKMB2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacychase Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Originally posted by armada: Please , please please do not equate McVeigh to Martin Luther King!! This is getting worse and worse!!! WTF??!!! And who said that? [This message has been edited by armada (edited 06-12-2001).]Quite possibly she has her civil rights leaders confused... MLK believed in peaceful protesting and Malcolm believed in any means necessary... However I have never heard of either of these men blowing up a building killing 168 innocent human lives, 19 which are children, and I think 3-4 additional unborn lives..... ------------------Life can only be understood backward, but it must be lived forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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