A different perspective on this that people need to hear...

[midiman]

WHY?

The tragic events that took place on September 11, 2001 in New York and Washington have shocked the world. We have lost thousands of people dear to us. Many more have been injured. Buildings we were proud of have been destroyed. We have been attacked in our own country. We are devastated, we feel violated and we are angry. We are furious and we are asking for retribution, we want the people responsible for this outrage punished, we want revenge!

Everyone is asking “who?” and “how?” Who was it that committed these horrible crimes and how did they do it. A big problem I find is not enough people are asking “why?” Why do other people hate us so much that they are willing to hurt us so badly? Why are they willing to die themselves in order to wreak havoc amongst us? Many media experts have told us that the perpetrators of these attacks hate the American way of life, our values and our freedom.

I beg to differ. Having lived in the Middle East for some years, I know for a fact that most people in the Middle East love Americans as people. They admire the American way of life and they long for our freedom. What they cannot understand, what bewilders them, hurts them and makes them bitter is the fact that we do not practice what we preach. We stand for freedom and justice and yet we blindly support Israel in the illegal occupation of Palestinian land. We are against racism and yet we close our eyes to the blatant racism carried out by Israel against the Palestinians. Hundreds of thousands of innocent children have died in Iraq during ten years of sanctions, many civilians killed and houses destroyed during the routinely carried out bombing raids on Iraq that are not even mentioned in the news anymore. In the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza, there are almost daily attacks on the civilian population carried out in American-supplied helicopter gun ships and by American-made missiles, people are killed and property demolished. These attacks did not happen for one day, they have been going on for months and years.

They have lost thousands of people dear to them. Many more have been injured, many of their buildings have been destroyed. They are devastated, they feel violated and they are angry! And just like us, they want revenge!

That is why someone like Osama Ben Laden can find followers for his evil schemes in their ranks. Many of these people are already living in hell, they have lost their loved ones, their homes, their dignity. They have nothing left to lose except a life that is not worth living. That is why they become suicide bombers. They do not hate our way of life, they are bitter that the only nation on earth that could help them have a decent life of their own turns a blind eye to their suffering and supports the oppressors.

Sure, we can go now and bomb the hell out of some people over there, and many of the same people that were horrified – and rightly so – by the images of Palestinians celebrating the attacks on New York and Washington, many of these same people will be dancing in American streets once they see pictures of bombs falling on Afghanistan or elsewhere. And they will conveniently forget that innocent lives will also be lost in these attacks. All that will matter to them is that the USA got their revenge. The sad thing is that there really is not that much difference between “them” and “us”, we all bleed when we are hurt.

What is even more sad is that if we do nothing except drop bombs and take our revenge, if we do not find a solution to the problems that are the cause of these attacks, we will only intensify the cycle of violence. Sooner or later another disaster will happen and we will mourn the loss of more innocent lives. And we will be partly to blame.

Osama Ben Laden's actions are not the spirit of Islam

Osama Ben Laden has been presented to the world as an Islamic fundamentalist and Islam is being blamed for all the evils that have befallen mankind. Many Americans know absolutely nothing about Islam, nor do they care to educate themselves. They associate Islam with terrorism, suicide bombers and hatred for American culture and American values. This is very narrow minded and totally misleading. Most of the Nazis were Christians, yet nobody in his right mind would associate the horrors and evils of the Third Reich with Christianity. These are the failings of human beings and not of any religion.

Islam is the Arabic word for submission to God. Islam is the most tolerant of religions, it recognizes the Jewish and Christian faith ( Jews and Christians are mentioned as “people of the book” in the Koran) and accepts in the Torah and Old and New Testament as divine scriptures besides the Koran. Islam shows great reverence to all the biblical prophets from Adam to Abraham to Moses. Jesus is held in high esteem by Moslems and they believe in the Immaculate Conception. Charity and helping others are important parts of Islam. Human life is sacred, killing others is only allowed in self-defense or if sanctified by law (like the death penalty in some states in the US). Suicide is a great sin and totally against anything that Islam stands for. Another misconception in the Western world, mostly due to the Western media, is the concept of “Jihad” or Holy war. It is not a war to impose Islam on others, nor is it a war of aggression. Jihad is the obligation of Moslems to come to the help of other Moslems if they are attacked or oppressed.

There have always been people that have used religion as means to accomplish their own goals. But only Islam has ever been vilified as a religion for the shortcomings of some of its pretended followers.

[alfuckingcapone]

I agree with you 100%. To many ignorant people out their.

The Palistinians actually had nothing to do with it. Our media CNN(run by the jews) used them as a SCAPEGOAT day1 of the tradgy, but for all we know they could have have tricked us the views, and show us footage of them celebrating over anything. It could have been a week prior when Israelie troops left a palistine town. Even if it was true it was the same footage of the same 5-8 people but not the millions that live there. When we dropped the bomb on Japan Americans were celebrating over here, but thats ok.

[jmuneton]

Midiman,

After reading your statement, I'd have to say that I have a whole lot of respect for you. I agree with everything that you have said, and wish that all Americans, as well as all cultures, can see this point of view, rather than blindly seeking revenge. I am opposed to any sort of military strike from the US government because I believe it will only create more trajedy. The problems of the world seems so complicated in this age, but one can arguably narrow it down to simply the inability for people of different cultures to understand one another. Or even the unwillingness to understand one another. Throughout my travels I have come to learn that all people want the same simple things in life - freedom and happiness. It's a shame that our pursuit for happiness can be clouded by the decisions political leaders have made. Thank you for posting that message.

[pookie23]

Okay - then it's settled!

We let them get away with it!

No harm done right? WRONG

I say when we find the fuckers that committed this mass murder, we should open up a big can of kick-ass and kill them all - LET THE PARAMEDICS SORT THEM OUT!!

[midiman]

Originally posted by spragga25

Okay - then it's settled!

We let them get away with it!

No harm done right? WRONG

I say when we find the fuckers that committed this mass murder, we should open up a big can of kick-ass and kill them all - LET THE PARAMEDICS SORT THEM OUT!!

right, get those who did this, but don't punish an entire region of people who have nothing to do with this. Opening a "can of whoopass" on innocent people isn't going to solve anything. They just did it to you and has anything been solved? With every new action comes more severe consequences....

[perfecto25]

ok, this is wrong. midiman, how do you and the arabs, account the israelis as being racist? they experience, what we have experienced on tuesday, almost every day. these people, who have made the desert bloom, established a modern and democratic state, won all its wars, vastly outnumbered, they are trying to live a peaceful and productive life. the palestinians on the other hand, grow seeds of hate amidst themselves from a young age. you talk about racist israelis, but tell me, whos public media and state television encourages terror and martyrdom for killing israelis? whos people set up training camps for 'young martyrs' (NY Times). whos people rejected the most profound internationally recognized peace offering given, whose people belief is that when a 'martyr' kills innocents, he goes to heaven with virgins? that sounds pretty fucked up to me. ive been to israel in 95, and talked to israelis and palestinians both, and yes, israelis do commit occasional offenses, but what country doesnt?? and especially if your borders are constanlty being penetrated by suicide bombers. who the fuck are you to sit here and judge them, and call them racist and aggressors, when you yourself want to eradicate terrorrism. and to afuckcapone, buddy, why dont you just claim that the jews are all moneyhungry and drink christian blood, you asshole. its a fact that the palestinians were cheering and celebrating even here in clifton, nj, i saw it myself. so stop your anti israeli, anti semetic, hate talk. this shit will not get us anywhere. on one last note, i do agree that the vast majority of arabs and muslims are well intentioned people, and its a terrible thing that arab communities in the states are being targeted, because of this fundamentalist cancer. everyone should smoke a j and come down a bit.

[midiman]

forgive me, but I just couldn't resist....please know that I am not a racist or an anti-semite. In fact I am a semite....all arabs are. I've seen it from both sides and while I don't know everything that is going on, I've learned that the Western media portarys a very biased view on what is going on over there.

First of all, Israel did not do anything by itself. The only reason it exists is because the west deemed it so. It made "the desert bloom" with continuous support from the United States. I really do think you need to open your eyes just a bit. I'm not saying that all are Israelis bad and Palestinians are good, but I think you need to be a bit more realistic here in your views of what is going on over there. Just because the western media that you read calls all Palestinian attacks as being "terrorist attacks" and all Israeli attacks as being "counter-attacks" does not mean it is so. Are you aware that Israel is currently illegally occupying territories that belongs to the Palestinians. The Palestinian territories conquered by Israel in 1967 are frequently referred to as "disputed". They are not. They are "occupied", and illegally so. While sovereignty over expanded East Jerusalem is explicity contested, none of the world's other 192 sovereign states has recognized Israel's sovereignty claim and Palestinian sovereignty over the West bank is, in both literal and legal senses, uncontested (even if it is not yet universally "recognized".) The U.N. has ordered them to return it yet they refuse.

Please, the Israeli government is no group of angels....need I remind you of the masacares at Sabra and Shatilla where close to 2,000 civilians were tortured, raped and murdered by Israeli militie under the orders of Sharon that took place in the 80s. Are you aware of the fact that Israel currently wants to surround all Palestinians villages with barbed wire fences (sound familiar?) and also has roads set up in Palestinan lands that are "For Jews Only" (ironic huh). Look at the numbers my friend, close to 600 Palestinians have been killed in the past year compared to about 100 Israelis. The Israeli army has just initiated a new program in which they are flat out assassinating Palestinian leaders....which they are calling "targetted killings" and "active defensive measures". Their reasoning is, "we killed them because they were planning on killing us later". Wow, didn't realize the Israelis were mind readers.

Look, I'm not looking to start any trouble here. There are larger issues at hand, but please be wiser than to simply believe everything the western media tells you about what is going on over there. It just really irks me that the one people who should be the most sympathetic to the Palestinians are acting this way. I am not justifying the use of violence in this situation or any situation for that matter. I really wish both sides could come to an agreement and settle this once and for all and in a peaceful manner. The first step towards this is education and understanding. People need to learn the truth, and those who commit violent acts must be help accountable for their actions....be them individuals or governments.

[djmikedr]

yo midi, long time bro-

glad you brought in a new prospective.

[jennEfer]

I agree with alot of what was said, however, someone needs to be punished for what has happened. I am not supporting a war effort against Palestine, but rather a hunt for Bin Laden. The United States military has all sorts of technology and spying techniques that range from listening in on cell phone conversations to viewing license plates from space satelites, so why don't they use them to seek out Bin Laden and whoever is associated with him? I know I make it sound alot easier than it really is, but my point is you cant punish a whole nation for a couple people who are crazy in the head. If there were madmen from the United States bombing Palestine, it would not be right if Palestinians destroyed our whole nation because of that one group of people. The media has us all hyped up about going to war with and destroying the responsible parties, when, in reality, we do not know exactly who they are. We should not take action against our opponent until we know who they are.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by spragga25

Okay - then it's settled!

We let them get away with it!

No harm done right? WRONG

I say when we find the fuckers that committed this mass murder, we should open up a big can of kick-ass and kill them all - LET THE PARAMEDICS SORT THEM OUT!!

Rock on Bro, I'm wicha on this one....but I would open up a case of kick-ass on them!!!!!!!! One can is what we did to sadam and we didn't finish the job off...

[loch]

Originally posted by saleen351

Rock on Bro, I'm wicha on this one....but I would open up a case of kick-ass on them!!!!!!!! One can is what we did to sadam and we didn't finish the job off...

yet another ignoramus to write with multiple exclamation points, blindly declaring bombs away.

what i find hysterical is the fact that you acknowledged trying to simply drop a bomb on sadam did not work, yet espouse the VERY same method this time on bin laden.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by loch

yet another ignoramus to write with multiple exclamation points, blindly declaring bombs away.

what i find hysterical is the fact that you acknowledged trying to simply drop a bomb on sadam did not work, yet espouse the VERY same method this time on bin laden.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It did work!!!!!!!!!!!!

Were you drafted???????? No, do u know why you were not drafted??????/ Cause we put Samdam in his box and kept him there, we made a decsion to let the ppl of Iraq take out Sadam, good move bad move I don't know but the fact that you think we lost the gulf war is funny to me...Your an idiot!!!! No sarin gas attacks in the world, no scud missles in Jordan or Isreal no Middle East war...We finished him off, yet he still lingers but he is harmless and we will keep it that way......... So get your fact straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[loch]

Originally posted by saleen351

the fact that you think we lost the gulf war is funny to me...Your an idiot!!!!

i was laughing at the you, not the gulf war efforts, moron. it takes a greater idiot not to understand what he read.

in the iraq scenario, we were attacking an identifiable government. as it stands, arguably, we had some success and i will concede to that.

however, my point in the previous post was solely focused on the fact that we tried to take out sadam himself by directly targeting him with a bomb, only as it turned out, killed civilians b/c he wasn't there (cbs news). simply trying to bomb bin laden to kill him is not going to work, seeing as how he is more elusive than sadam. and THAT, my friend, is my point.

[pwoofo]

I'm glad that someone stuck up for Palestine. It's crazy to judge the entire region by the celebration of about five to eight people. Here are some responses to an earlier post attacking midiman.

"yes, israelis do commit occasional offenses, but what country doesnt??"

"occasional offenses?" Sure enough, atrocities occur on both sides but you're living in a fantasy world if you think Israel is a benevolent state that merely 'responds' to attacks. Also, I think terrorist attacks against Israelis are loathsome, but Israel uses advanced US armaments against people throwing bottles and rocks. It seems like every time there's bloodshed, 9 palestinians die to every one Israeli.

"its a fact that the palestinians were cheering and celebrating even here in clifton, nj, i saw it myself. so stop your anti israeli, anti semetic, hate talk."

You know for a fact that the people celebrating were Palestinians? That's a fact, huh? You asked them their ethnicities, knew exactly what they were cheering? As for your plea to 'stop your anti israeli, anti semetic, hate talk,' aren't you inciting people to continue their irrational anti-arab, anti-muslim hate talk?

Your blind self-righteousness makes saddens me.

[perfecto25]

pwooofo, i dont want to insult your intelligence, but your information is best to say, inadequate and inaccurate. the palestinians are not people who simply fight with 'stones and bottles', an image youve got stuck inyour head because you keep hearing how 'racist' the israelis are. these people have assault rifles, anti-tank missiles, molotov cocktails, grenades, sniper rifles and much much more. every day, israelis are getting shot at and die just for driving home in their car, for going to a store, everday things. my cousin is in the army, and he tells me events firsthand, and let me tell you, the israelis are being gentle with them. US would never EVER put up with the kind of shit thats going on in the territories. the entire palestinian media is set up to encourage suicide bombers and attacks against civilians, and they are supposed to be peace partners. and yes asshole, i did see the people in clifton, and YES they were palestinian, i used to work for an IT company there, and the vast majority are palestinian, and these people were holding up palestinian flags and smiling. so cut the bullshit, roots of terrorism must be cut off where they start, and thats in a palestinian school classroom. they need to change what they preach.

[midiman]

Originally posted by perfecto25

pwooofo, i dont want to insult your intelligence, but your information is best to say, inadequate and inaccurate. the palestinians are not people who simply fight with 'stones and bottles', an image youve got stuck inyour head because you keep hearing how 'racist' the israelis are. these people have assault rifles, anti-tank missiles, molotov cocktails, grenades, sniper rifles and much much more. every day, israelis are getting shot at and die just for driving home in their car, for going to a store, everday things. my cousin is in the army, and he tells me events firsthand, and let me tell you, the israelis are being gentle with them. US would never EVER put up with the kind of shit thats going on in the territories. the entire palestinian media is set up to encourage suicide bombers and attacks against civilians, and they are supposed to be peace partners. and yes asshole, i did see the people in clifton, and YES they were palestinian, i used to work for an IT company there, and the vast majority are palestinian, and these people were holding up palestinian flags and smiling. so cut the bullshit, roots of terrorism must be cut off where they start, and thats in a palestinian school classroom. they need to change what they preach.

I'm sorry, the numbers don't lie. It's about 600 Palestinians dead in the past year compared to about 100 Israelis. Israel is using helicopters with Missles and tanks to invade and conquer more land that belongs to the Palestinians. Yes the Palestinians are contributing to the violence but lets ask ourselves a question.....who is illegally occupying who's land? This land is not "disputed" it is being occupied by Israel and illegally so for the past 34 years. The U.N. has demanded that Israel return it yet they refuse. I am not justifying the violence but stop acting like Israel is a bunch of angels who are just responding to the attacks on innocent people by the Palestinians. Don't believe everything you see on CNN and hear from your Israeli army buddies (wow....there's an unbiased view).

[blowflyii]

What happend in NY is a perfect example of a Conundrom. Those of you who do not know the word look it up. In war there is never a solution. I feel like we are in 1917 "jonny get yor gun" era and the media and government brainwash young men to think that killing others will be worthy and honorable.

Anger and hoping out of the frying pan and into the fire is the wrong idea. Generic god bless america is to blame. Leave the fuckin church out of it. People need a sense of comfort from some authority figure in order to feel bter about themselves.

REALITY CHECK: "THE WORLD IS AN OCEAN OF CHAOS"

Living my life like this I expect horor as equally as i do prosperity.

People live in their own little worlds and repeat things to feel more comortable and distract them from the inevitablity of death.

THERE is no reality.

This catastrophy shows that ...u can have it all a 7-9 digit income and be on top of the world trade center....and BAM!!!!!!! your life is over on a dime!

Something to think about.

I will sooner die than enter a war, but I will lift my brothers and sisters from the sands of time. This is a positive cause!

DR BLOWFLYII

AN ANGRY AMERICAN MOTHERFUCKER

[pwoofo]

"and yes asshole, i did see the people in clifton, and YES they were palestinian, i used to work for an IT company there, and the vast majority are palestinian, and these people were holding up palestinian flags and smiling."

gee you hurt my feelings. and yes, i'm an asshole just because I disagree with you and your myopic viewpoint. And yes, smiling and holding a palestinian flag means that you're not a fundamentalist nut sympathizer from, say, Egypt.

"pwooofo, i dont want to insult your intelligence, but your information is best to say, inadequate and inaccurate...these people have assault rifles, anti-tank missiles, molotov cocktails, grenades, sniper rifles and much much more. every day, israelis are getting shot at and die just for driving home in their car, for going to a store, everday things."

i don't mean to insult your intelligence, but your information is biased and one-sided. The US gives how much in military 'aid' to Israel each year? You're right that Palestinian attacking Israelis do not simply use bottles and rocks- I didn't mean to imply that. But Israel does have a clear military advantage probably brought about by large grants of advanced weapons by the US. Didn't Israel recently send a missile from a US-given Apache helicopter into a Palestinian office building? If there was equality in armaments, I doubt that would have happened.

"my cousin is in the army, and he tells me events firsthand, and let me tell you, the israelis are being gentle with them. US would never EVER put up with the kind of shit thats going on in the territories."

I'm glad to know your cousin thinks Israel is being gentle with the Palestinians. I think UN fact finders might disagree with him, though. As for the US's attitude towards subjugated people- it has not always been gentle, so it's probably not a good basis for comparison. Why don't we agree that BOTH sides are involved in questionable activities?

"so cut the bullshit"

uhh, ok- but you first.

Look, I know you feel passionately about the issue, but you have to understand that other people don't have the same biases and background and that their perspectives are not less valid because they do not jibe with your own. I don't diminish the losses that have occured on either side and I think ANY bloodshed is terrible.