Guest tilly Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by MUGWUMP last year...I thought it would be a good day to bump this up but it wouldn't bump so I copied and pasted it..Let's discuss LOVE IS A FALSE HUMAN EMOTION (Mugz wakes up!) What do u think? Seams to me that when it starts getting cold everyone tries and settle down with someone. It's like genetic..humans tend to go with some subliminal flow about reproducing around this time of year. So many people hooking up will say to each other while lying in bed, "I think I love you."It's so primal and instinctive, yet it kind of makes you wonder... Having gotten out of a five year INTENSE relationship that fell flat I have become somewhat pessimistic on the concept of "love". Sure there are certain things one can "fall in love with" about a person..One can love family, love your dog Love an object...but do you really BELIEVE IN "ROMANTIC"LOVE? Perhaps Love in a relationship is just our petty, needy, greedy human way of coping with solitude. Perhaps it's selfish and leachy and all in all a false emotion. I have come to believe that humans really do not LOVE, but THINK they love. That is to say that we go with an attraction and psychologically blow it up to our interpretation of what "love" truly is. In the end we always look for more..(*if even subconsciously). We fall victim to the wandering eye, the lust for an OTHER and the animal instincts of sex. Perhaps LOVE is our stubborn ideologies that try and separate our true nature as animals with romantic ideas of "what should be". And if you share this view then perhaps the concept of Marriage is also a false prison. How many marriages fall short every year and end in divorce. No! I proclaim LOVE as a false emotion dreamt up by our need to be needed . A petty human invention which can only lead to pain. Love and lost ARE the same side of the coin. NOTHING lasts for ever.. and when you wake up from that spell which we humans call "LOVE" all you are left with is an empty dream and shattered hopes. I say LOVE does not exist. WHAT DO YOU THINK? BTW: My stance is that I couldn't agree any more with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LavenderMenace Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 DEAR GOD I CANT BELIEVE YOU BROUGHT THIS BACK.PARDON ME, I HAVE TO GO VOMIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 . . . Ayn rand theorized that love is the ultimate act of selfishness . .I tend to agree . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 An emotion is an emotion, they do not come in a true or false form.All that was said before is just human presumption about what love supposedly is. That has nothing to do with whether or not love is "true" or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockie33 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I think you are faling into the same concept of "LOVE" which you expain in your post, you talk bout love being an ideology and nothing more than a masked murderer, maybe this is becaue this is the only kind of love you've experienced in life, in my opinion..and maybe i'm completly wrong (but hey, this is wat real love does to you, makes u feel and think in ways u never hd b4) once u have felt true love you will know because ur whole life will make a complete 360, and once this occurs your questioning of "LOVE" will never rise again the way you've brought it up...be patient, love will find its way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 love is just a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by cockie33 I think you are faling into the same concept of "LOVE" which you expain in your post, you talk bout love being an ideology and nothing more than a masked murderer, maybe this is becaue this is the only kind of love you've experienced in life, in my opinion..and maybe i'm completly wrong (but hey, this is wat real love does to you, makes u feel and think in ways u never hd b4) once u have felt true love you will know because ur whole life will make a complete 360, and once this occurs your questioning of "LOVE" will never rise again the way you've brought it up...be patient, love will find its way. . . BUT . . what if, for instance . . you take the path I have and closed yourself out completely to love. . . . . I find solace in clarity when I'm not feeling it . . therefore I don't , and haven't . . ever . . . and never will . . . . This is the only true path to happiness . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Defining whether Love exists is almost in the same discussion as to whether God exists or not. There is no right or wrong, just opinions and beliefs.I DO believe in love, and it has MANY manifestations. Love can be used in many ways, and has many classifications ( "Oh, ricky Martin, I LOVE YoU ain't real, but love in something in which you've shared experiences with IS real love, since you know it, you've partaken in life with it.Love can also run it's course. I have fallen in love before, i didn't "think" it, i knew it, because i saw my love everywhere, smelled her, tasted her. And that's what i feel love is: the involvement of every sense experienceing and getting as close as one can to "being" the other person.No one said this is easy, and it's NOT! I KNOW i love snowboarding, I love travelling, and i love women. But it gets harder and harder the more specific you get, such as loving a person (we aren't ToTally rational, y'know) and problems can arise. But i think once you know yourself REALLY WELL, and you're ready to go in 50/50 with someone else (tolerating their strong and weak points AND accepting them all) THAT"S LOVE. When it's Unconditional.::WheW:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by gmccookny Love can also run it's course. I have fallen in love before, i didn't "think" it, i knew it, because i saw my love everywhere, smelled her, tasted her. And that's what i feel love is: the involvement of every sense experienceing and getting as close as one can to "being" the other person.::WheW:: . . . Good points gm, however I do not agree . . at all . . . Love runs it's course on the weakness of the human soul. . . Love is asking, in it's current incarnation, for two people to give up their individuality of soul and compromise to the whims of each other . . . . I do not agree with that . . . .Love is EVIL . . . Love is the chaos that brings anger . . which lends to my next point . .. . Pain is what drives the universe . . . . Love never created anything except for well wishing and WAR, and to such an extent that it does, so comes forth the basis for pain, which, in turn, drives the existence of man . .Love in and of itself is meaningless. . . Love as an instrument to create pain is Destiny . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tilly Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by gmccookny Unconditional.::WheW:: What's that? Even the ppl that say that they "love" unconditionally have conditions. I'm glad that there are NON jaded ppl out there..it makes for a better world in the long run..however, I do not subscribe to this infinite love world, nor will I ever. I admit it, I am far too selfish to be capable of loving anyone besides myself. Sure, I know how to be giving but receiving is where i spend most of my days...we all do..but most just live under the concept that they would give their left arm for their "love"..why? cause It makes you feel better or it satisfies you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by tilly What's that? Even the ppl that say that they "love" unconditionally have conditions. I'm glad that there are NON jaded ppl out there..it makes for a better world in the long run..however, I do not subscribe to this infinite love world, nor will I ever. I admit it, I am far too selfish to be capable of loving anyone besides myself. Sure, I know how to be giving but receiving is where i spend most of my days...we all do..but most just live under the concept that they would give their left arm for their "love"..why? cause It makes you feel better or it satisfies you.. . Ayn Rand's point exactly . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkern Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I think people misunderstand the nature of love. We hold on to this foolish concept of "forever," the fairy tale myth of a love that stays for a lifetime, perfectly preserved, unwavering, unchanging through time. This belief results in perpetual disappointment because, as the orignial post points out, nothing lasts forever. Nothing.Therefore, maybe we should think of love as something that, like all things, is cyclical. Love is a changling. It ebbs, flows, waxes, wanes...it comes into our lives, heals and comforts us for a time, and then drifts away again, but always to return in some new and beautiful form - sometimes in the form of a new person, other times, we learn to love the one we're with in a new way. I have had many relationships, all of which were successful. No, they have not lasted forever, but that does not mean they failed. I am grateful for every time I've loved someone - each time, I learned something new about the world, about myself, about the beauty of men and the generous gift of intimacy. And I try to be unselfish, and let the love go if it seems the time has come to do so. All life is fleeting. We must embrace its impermanence if we are to ever be happy.Rilke says it best:Be ahead of all parting, as though it already werebehind you, like the winter that has just gone by.For among these winters there is one so endlessly winterthat only by wintering through it will your heart survive. Be forever dead in Eurydice--more gladly ariseinto the seamless life proclaimed in your song.Here, in the realm of decline, among momentary days,be the crystal cup that shattered with sound. Be--and yet know the great void where all things begin,the infinite source of your most intense vibration,so that, this once, you may give it your perfect assent. To all that is used-up, and to all the muffled and dumbcreatures in the world's full reserve, the unsayable sumsjoyfully add yourself, and cancel the count. --Rainer Maria Rilke [stephen Mitchell] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowflyii Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 If you are right things are pretty sad in life. If there is a love it should be void of need as you said. I know you just haven't found it yet or maybe recognized it because people do not want what is readily available, they feel like they are settling. I think though when you are willing to risk anything for that person and care for them as much as yourself is the key.More than half of marriages fail. However it shoudln't scare people away from trying. Maybe I am warped, locked in my own emotional prison. There is love that is true for instance from a mother to son or daughter. My mother totally lives for me. Anything I need help or otherwise she offers without any selfishness. I do find her annoying because she doesn't give me much space, and makes a comment on evrything I do or say. This woman taught me how to love unconditionally. I love others like a mother does because that is what I have been taught. I am the most spoiled son in the world which is why I whine so much and at times do not act appropriately. I always get bailed out of my own actions because my parents have always covered my ass teaching me nothing.I am a bastard I have cost my parents over a million $. I do have one gift that is rare, dedication and love.As elvis says only fools rush in.Hookups are temporary fixes for a lonely heart you are right. But the underlying issues stay unresolved. I know when I love, it is something best approached by developing with a friend or family member.Love at first sight does not exhist, but it starts when you put someone else in front of yourself and it develops from there. I think Mugz does love someone and posted this because he was hurting. He loves dogs too. I simply do not agree that all love leads to pain. If you find the right penguin you can be happy.Love is caring, obsession, it makes you want to run outside into the streets of manhattan and say I LOVE such and such. What I think Mugz means is love without intimacy does not exhist.If not we need food. We need water. We need love?Maybe I am wrong and I should go burrey myself in the snow.2 people must be independant however, otherwise it creates an uneven relationship and pulls it apart. A relationship of equals is the only way that works. Communication is imperative, perhaps people are afraid of not being loved back.There is a great lyric by my fav artist maynard james Keenan....The light that fueled a fire once, has burned a hole between us though, That is what its about.But i am a melty mush so I do not know what the hell I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowflyii Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Yes people who fall for the fantasy are not in love. Everyone buys a fantasy though.....How do you want it PACkaged!I mean if you have ever bought into nice clothes, wine, house, cars, etc, you are buying a fantasy.Everyone buys a fantasy. Whether its buying a 1200$ handbag or eating a 500$ dinner, or even love. I know my experince with lvmh caters to spending billions in marketing to sell people a false fantasy that doesn't exhist. Image is everything.Two people must be healed of their issues before entering a relationship.People who havent found love read henricks keeping the love you find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tilly Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by blowflyii Yes people who fall for the fantasy are not in love. Everyone buys a fantasy though.....How do you want it PACkaged!I mean if you have ever bought into nice clothes, wine, house, cars, etc, you are buying a fantasy.Everyone buys a fantasy. Whether its buying a 1200$ handbag or eating a 500$ dinner, or even love. I know my experince with lvmh caters to spending billions in marketing to sell people a false fantasy that doesn't exhist. Image is everything.Two people must be healed of their issues before entering a relationship.People who havent found love read henricks keeping the love you find. you said it..now act what you preech...and leave me the f alone for the last time! NUFF SAID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanna11 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 love is real. i feel it everytime i am on drugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by deanna11 love is real. i feel it everytime i am on drugs . . AMEN . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowflyii Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I know you have feelings and you are showing your cards. Is your goal to have everyone hate me? You brought this subject up. You are angry because deep down you care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowflyii Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Thanks for lightenign up the subject however that is just the change of serotonin and dopamine levels in you system hun. "ITs a false human emotion." At least you are on subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjlive Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I'm struck by the hefty doses of cynicism all around. Can we separate *hope* in the existence of true love from sheer *optimism* in discovering it in our immediate environments/relationships? And should we constantly chase our ever-changing perception of love in other people or must a truly intense degree of self-reflection happen first?As for love in general: Let's not forget there's all those who follow in the Islamic and Judeo-Christian modes who consider Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Christ, God to BE love--absolute, undying, eternal, and true. Before that, Plato (yes, more yawning if you like) tried addressing the question of defining the true nature of love in his Symposium in trademark open-ended Socratic fashion. He pointed out differences in familial, carnal, divine, friendly (Platonic) love and even opened things up to consider lesbian and gay relationships.But more to the POINT:I think one of the problems in thinking about what Mugz originally talked about -- i.e. "ROMANTIC" love -- is that the best of it mixes different conceptions of love (sexual, friendship, etc) in such myriad and individualized combinations. Striking a lasting or satisfying balance is a tall order. Takes a lifetime, in many cases.Hell, FINDING the love(s) of your life doesn't come easy either. I mean hell, I'm single at the moment...hehe. The blues, in the form of frustration, cynicism, or disillusionment plague us all from time to time. But why not bank on our ever-growing maturity and wisdom and keep an open heart. Based on recent current events, it's better than the alternatives--hatred/indifference--that's for damn sure.kjlive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by pkern Therefore, maybe we should think of love as something that, like all things, is cyclical. Love is a changling. It ebbs, flows, waxes, wanes...it comes into our lives, heals and comforts us for a time, and then drifts away again, but always to return in some new and beautiful form - sometimes in the form of a new person, other times, we learn to love the one we're with in a new way. I have had many relationships, all of which were successful. No, they have not lasted forever, but that does not mean they failed. I am grateful for every time I've loved someone - each time, I learned something new about the world, about myself, about the beauty of men and the generous gift of intimacy. And I try to be unselfish, and let the love go if it seems the time has come to do so. All life is fleeting. We must embrace its impermanence if we are to ever be happy.Well said once again, pkern ( have u been dreamin of Magritte again?/?)Love DOES enter everyone's lives in one form or another, in one degree or another, and like xpander said, it IS an emotion, so it HAS no definition. It comes and goes, and if you lost love, i think you'll start to miss it (unless you lock yourself in your own hole)I don't think many people are ready for it, though. You have to love yourself B4 you can love anyone else. Hell, FINDING the love(s) of your life doesn't come easy either. I mean hell, I'm single at the moment...hehe. The blues, in the form of frustration, cynicism, or disillusionment plague us all from time to time. But why not bank on our ever-growing maturity and wisdom and keep an open heart. Based on recent current events, it's better than the alternatives--hatred/indifference--that's for damn sure. . Yes, we all learn from our pasts. I myself am getting over a relat., and I miss her very much, BUT keep focusing on the possibility that it could be better with someone else, and that's something worth living for: the ability to wake up and realize that someone shares so deeply in my values and opinions as i doAs tilly said, love is somewhat selfish and for us. But that's one side of it. There's also the appreciation that one gets by seeing someone smile back in thanks, which words cannot describe. Humans have this innate ability to read another person's non-verbal communication in a deeply subjective way. We can't "control" that...it just happens. Those gestures and actions combined with words = how much love (more or less) we feel for another. And one more to leave on: If you guys don't believe in "true" love, you will once that person leaves your life and you realize their gone forever. This pertains to people you REALLY had feelings for, not just an -ex or someone you "choose" to shut out.::absence makes the heart grow fonder:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tilly Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Originally posted by deanna11 love is real. i feel it everytime i am on drugs that is classic! We could probably make that quote into a top selling t-shirt at clubs worldwide...making money off of love...now that's my style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 love is just a word....love is just an emotion.......I think the main problem that I saw with Mugwump's original post was that he dictated that love is a false emotion because his perception of it turned out to be false.Love is selfish. But take that to everything you do and you'll notice that everything is selfish. Because everything has to filter through the gate of our own desires.And love does suck....but that's for bad times or when you just plain don't have it (as myself ). That can be said of practically anything.Everyone on the damn planet can argue till their lips evolve into rubber, but the point is, there is no such thing as objective love. AND, should there become a thing as objective love, which would mean that someone would have limited it to a set of emotions, actions, blah, blah.... Then it's just another word, meaningless only wiith the exception to humans (Phunk, you remember this).Love is an interesting thing. If you're lucky, you may realize what it means to you one day and get to have it for yourself.Don't presume that you know what love means to anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebby Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 I USED to believe in love. All my life i would always get fucked over by a guy, b/c i wanted the whole long relationship thing, blah blah blah.. so i got engaged, couldnt deal with the guys BS anymore, broke it off after 2 months!! Now I am living up my life and making up for the time missed. So, I dont really believe in love as of right now and say Im never getting married btu im sure one day i will fall iln love and be hapyp forever... but im not looking for it anymore, I've had my share of drama and im only 20!!! So, until love slaps me in the face then it doesnt exist to me. Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebby Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Friends with benefits is the way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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