Sharon is a war criminal

[malone]

I thought the isralies were angels but now after watching the news it looks like they are brutal criminalsm, that president sharon looks like the hunchback of notredam and needs to be shot, hes def a war criminal, the jewish people are gonna cause another world war, i dont y they cause all this shit, and getting the US into this,,,, fucking idiots

And all this after watching the news, mind you. Perhaps, though, you might watch the news a little more carefully in future. Or just simply watch the news a little more, period. Then you might eventually learn that Sharon is not a "President" but a Prime Minister. That we don't generally shoot people for looking like "the hunchback of notredam." That who is and who his not a "war criminal" is usually determined by a court of law and not by someone on a message board. That as the "jewish people" didn't cause the last world war your imputation that they are "gonna cause another world war" is nothing more than a vile, repugnant and extremely ill-informed calumny. You blame the Jews for all the problems and call them "fucking idiots." Yet strangely, before you became so well schooled on events in the Middle East after watching the news (once??) you say you thought the Israeli's were "angels." Really!! The only relevant question then becomes: Who is really the fucking idiot here???

[breaksny]

I never said arafat was blameless or that he's mr democracy. But u all wouldn't have a nuanced enuff perpsective to get that I guess. But u can't compare a war criminal to a head of government who lacks so many of the levers of power and who has been called a war criminal by his own government. U really can't and have it hold any grain of truth. As to the whole spin bs malone is accusing me of, dude every word out of your mouth is spin. The fact that I view alot of what u say as either distortionist or wrong doesn't make my views spin, and the fact that I see Sharon for what he is isn't spin either. Justify to me the massacre of 20,000 civilians and I will accept that he shouldn't be in jail for the rest of his life.

[somuchmass]

malone and tribal, the crimes the israelies are comminting are 100 times worse than what the palestininan suicide bombers are doin,,, PERIOD, they do it a differnet way kill civilians and call it an "accident" BULLDOZE houses, humalite people, no wonder they blow themselves up to get revenge, if some foreign force bulldozed my house and humalited my family i would kill them for sure its no differnt, the isrealis should be happy with wat the UN GAVE them and live with the palestinians in peace.

[kramadas]

Of course, according to malone, the Palestians are the only problem...Sharon is an angel sitting in office, doing the only thing he can do...of course, he feels SO bad for all the innocent ppl he kills... dude, you are so pro-Israeli that you make Sharon look like tree hugging Palestinian loving peace-maker!

What do you think you will do, if you're sitting in your home located in a refugee camp, eating one meal a day...just grateful that you have a roof over your head...and then BAM!! tank shells landing everywhere, bulldozers razing your only home down, fields being destroyed, you father and brother arrested just because they're Palestinian males between 16 and 45 (or whatever criteria they use)...tell me Malone, are you just going to sit there and think.."oh, of course, they have to do this...its not their fault...I'm just going to forget about the whole thing, and think Sharon is great!".

Or are you going to get angry?

Its a vicious cycle that will never end as long as Arafat and Sharon are in power. More Sharon than Arafat.

[tepfenhardth]

some new changes

[kramadas]

Originally posted by tepfenhardt

Here is something regarding Sharon and his acts

http://www.mediamonitors.net/drbenalofs1.html

I am not condemning any of Arafat's actions, but I am just saying just like the police all this is out of his jurisdiction..

Jesus fuckin Christ...that article was sickening! What sort of animal would do that? I've heard about what happened, but this is the first time I've read a first hand account!

He does want fuckin genocide!

[malone]

malone and tribal, the crimes the israelies are comminting are 100 times worse than what the palestininan suicide bombers are doin,,, PERIOD, they do it a differnet way kill civilians and call it an "accident" BULLDOZE houses, humalite people, no wonder they blow themselves up to get revenge, if some foreign force bulldozed my house and humalited my family i would kill them for sure its no differnt, the isrealis should be happy with wat the UN GAVE them and live with the palestinians in peace.

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Explain how killing civilians by one side in a war is "100 times worse" than the same act commited by the other side. But judging from the content of you post history is definitely not your forte so I don't suppose we should expect too much in the way of elaboration. Strangely you seem to tkink that it's ok to blow civilians to pieces because of acts commited by a "foreign force." If what Israel has done in the West Bank justifies suicide attacks on civilians then one can only expect the entire Middle East to end in total conflagration. Afterall no other regime in the region would tolerate anything near what Israel has had to endure. In fact they won't even tolerate their own people deciding if they are fit to remain in government.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by malone

Explain how killing civilians by one side in a war is "100 times worse" than the same act commited by the other side. But judging from the content of you post history is definitely not your forte so I don't suppose we should expect too much in the way of elaboration. Strangely you seem to tkink that it's ok to blow civilians to pieces because of acts commited by a "foreign force." If what Israel has done in the West Bank justifies suicide attacks on civilians then one can only expect the entire Middle East to end in total conflagration. Afterall no other regime in the region would tolerate anything near what Israel has had to endure. In fact they won't even tolerate their own people deciding if they are fit to remain in government.

The problem is not Israel, its Sharon.

[somuchmass]

just remeber how the intifada started, it started rite after sharon got elected, when he tried to instigate the palestinians by visiting the tunnel near the al aqsa mosque, before sharon terriosm was minimal after him it totally blew out of proportion, i dono y the israeliy people chose him as their leader a proven WAR CRIMINAL

[malone]

Of course, according to malone, the Palestians are the only problem...Sharon is an angel sitting in office, doing the only thing he can do...of course, he feels SO bad for all the innocent ppl he kills... dude, you are so pro-Israeli that you make Sharon look like tree hugging Palestinian loving peace-maker!

What do you think you will do, if you're sitting in your home located in a refugee camp, eating one meal a day...just grateful that you have a roof over your head...and then BAM!! tank shells landing everywhere, bulldozers razing your only home down, fields being destroyed, you father and brother arrested just because they're Palestinian males between 16 and 45 (or whatever criteria they use)...tell me Malone, are you just going to sit there and think.."oh, of course, they have to do this...its not their fault...I'm just going to forget about the whole thing, and think Sharon is great!".

Or are you going to get angry?

Its a vicious cycle that will never end as long as Arafat and Sharon are in power. More Sharon than Arafat.

Well let's see now. What are you going to do, raver, if your family are butchered while going to a restaurant for an evening meal?? And you live in a country that has never known peace because you are surrounded by people who don't even think you have a right to exist?? And that your homeland was attacked on several occasions by the armies of all these countries?? Are you just going to sit there and think: "...oh, of course, they have to do this...it's not their fault?" Or are you going to get angry?? Yes, I firmly believe the Palestinians are victims in all of this. But no more so than the Israeli's. The difference is that the Palestinians can never move beyond this state so long as they deny Israel's right to exist. That denial has lead to them carrying on a campaign of violence against Israeli civilians for decades now, and has got them nowhere, except to worsen their plight. Some day, no doubt, the Palestinians will have their own State, and when they do they wiil certainly take every measure to guard that State against aggresion, foreign and domestic. And if it's like every other Arab State, soon it will be a corrupt kleptocracy. Which won't trouble you in the least. But that State, if it is to survive, must come to terms with the reality of Israel's existence. In fact it won't come into being without this fundamental shift in thinking. That you can take to the bank. Now, answer me this: Why are Palestinians siting in refugee camps eating one meal a day more than five decades after their original displacement??Five decades?? Come on, are you telling me that that's not a "stick" to constantly beat the Israeli's with?? Are you trying to say that that's not as a deliberate policy by Arab nations to keep this issue as a permanent festering sore?? All the millions upon millions of refugees in Europe after the war were settled within ten years after the war, and these people are still in refugee camps eating one meal a day?? Three generations of the same family eating one meal a day after all these years?? Something's rotten in Denmark, alright.

[malone]

The problem is not Israel, its Sharon.

So finally you've come around to Breaksny's point of view. There were absolutely no problems prior to Sharon coming to the Prime-ministership of Israel. Good to know. So we shall look forward to the end of his term in office then. That way we are then assured of a problem-free relationship between the two communities. Can hardly wait.

[malone]

just remeber how the intifada started, it started rite after sharon got elected, when he tried to instigate the palestinians by visiting the tunnel near the al aqsa mosque, before sharon terriosm was minimal after him it totally blew out of proportion, i dono y the israeliy people chose him as their leader a proven WAR CRIMINAL

Eh, sorry old chap, but you've just put the cart before the horse. You ought to try one of those "memory" courses they're always touting on late-night tv. Back to square one for you.

[malone]

I never said arafat was blameless or that he's mr democracy. But u all wouldn't have a nuanced enuff perpsective to get that I guess. But u can't compare a war criminal to a head of government who lacks so many of the levers of power and who has been called a war criminal by his own government. U really can't and have it hold any grain of truth. As to the whole spin bs malone is accusing me of, dude every word out of your mouth is spin. The fact that I view alot of what u say as either distortionist or wrong doesn't make my views spin, and the fact that I see Sharon for what he is isn't spin either. Justify to me the massacre of 20,000 civilians and I will accept that he shouldn't be in jail for the rest of his life

Tell me about the "massacre of 20,000" civilians that you say Sharon was responsible for. Tell me, with your presumably "nuanced enuff perspective" how The Israeli forces were supposed to root out the PLO from Lebanon without incurring civilian casualties. Tell me what the PLO were doing hiding amidst the civilian population of their host country.Tell me about any war that was ever fought without civilian casualties. And while you're at it, tell me what criteron is used in determining who is a civilian, and who is a terrorist lurking amoung the regular population?? Tell me about the civilian casualties inflicted by the PLO while in Lebanon, and how they almost completely destroyed that country. Tell me about how they almost suceeded in doing the same in Jordan, before they were kicked out of there, and thousand of their number killed by the Jordanian army, in the early '70's, without a murmer from the international community. Oh, there's spin all right. The Israeli government never said Sharon was "a war criminal" yet you say they did. That's not spin -- that's an outright LIE. No surprise there though. Your entire arguments have been about ignoring inconvenient facts; distorting history; attempting to portray the conflict as the brainchild of one individual, Sharon; and a general unwillingness to move beyond the "thinking" required of you as a self-defined lefty. I thought the left was supposed to be building "Socialist " governments throughout the world. I guess that didn't go too well. So now they are busying themselves with the task of coddling suicide bombers in the Middle East, and making apologies for those who attacked this country and killed three thousand people. Nice work, if you can get it.