frenchbread

dude, you're so fuckin' paranoid it's not even funny... and nuts... you start a thread to stop the bush bashing by doing some clinton bashing...(real smart )... then everybody tells you that you're wrong...but you still want to justify yourself by saying "i'm just defending here"... the only thing you're defending here is your stupidity...and you're doing quite a nice job at it... you should just learn that when you're wrong you're wrong... and the first rule of hole-digging is "if you're digging...stop"... i don't care how many off-topic articles and links you post...you are wrong about this... oh and i almost forgot...you're a flaming idiot...

listen, i usually try not to curse, but you're a fuckin idiot... you started this thread... and it was about clinton having had slower response time for the oklahoma bombings... and as supported by myself and other people on the thread, that is the stupidest fuckin thing to say...ever...... i tried to show you that, but you went off on all these tangents... i tried to bring it back to the subject at hand...but you had no reply... all you can do is use your usual come back...you liberals, blah blah blah... who said i was a liberal?...and what does that have to do with this thread????...nothing... you want a survey... drlogic is a fuckin moron who can't stay on topic, even on his own threads...why is that?... survey says: because he's a fuckin' moron... done and done... oh, and dude...don't bother answering, because unless it's on topic (which we all know it's not going to be) i ain't gonna read it...

yeah, whatever... funny how the only thing you replied to was that... couldn't answer to any of the topic-related stuff huh... case closed...

historical scholar????...come on...you should stop stringing big words just to fake being right... i didn't say the guy's statement was false...i said it is completely unrelated...i'll prove it again: you tell me what "neglecting the global atmosphere led to katrina" has to do with the US ridding germany of nazi's... i'll be waiting for you explanation... he might have added in there that the earth is round...that would have been true also... ...'fact is fact'...come on...do you even read what people post before you type?...let me guess...you do only if it's someone that agrees with you... and again, off-topic man... your post, this thread, was about Clinton's Disaster Response Took Longer Than Bush's...not whether local gov't is to blame... ... and wtf!!!!...did i ever argue that the local government was not to blame?...no...you just assumed...yet again... ...when did i ever said that?!?!?!?...stop putting words in people's mouths...because i believe that bush fucked up on the management of katrina, you immediately decided on what my views are...that shows that you're an idiot... you don't know whether i think that local gov't fucked up too...you just "thought" using your great logic... listen, i don't pretend to know what you think, so stop acting like you know what goes on in people's mind... if someone has a template here, it's you...you have a template about who i am, and what i think, because i don't agree with you...you have a template for anybody who criticizes bush... well, that's sad...and shows how narrow-minded you are man... p.s.: wanna make fun of people nickname, let's make fun of yours: dr.logic -> logic?...i don't think so...dr?...looks more like a patient to me...

i didn't miss your point... it seems like you missed your point...your post is entitled "Clinton's Disaster Response Took Longer Than Bush's"... and that's just wrong... and you also try to insinuate that michael brown was not disgraced as head of fema... and that too is just plain wrong... now you can try to create a diversion by posting something that's off-topic with respect to this thread... but that doesn't change the fact that your original post is just wrong... p.s.: sign that the author of an article is a flaming idiot: he has to mention the USA saving germany from the nazi's when he talks about a german person...regardless of the context...

seems to me that you're forgetting something quite important in that very flawed comparison of yours: -> bush knew before the hurricane hit that it was coming -> clinton didn't know about the bombing until it happened the real difference is not that clinton had sympathetic media... the real difference is that bush knew about it before it happened, and did nothing to prepare for it... so start counting those days again... and about michael brown: he's not allegedly disgraced...he is an idiot...a zero...need proof? here's what he had to say on nightline with ted koppel on thursday september 1st (yes, that's 3 days after landfall): ... now let's review: f.e.m.a.: federal emergency management agency katrina: largest hurricane to ever wreak havock on u.s. soil michael brown: dumbass nominated by kings of all dumbasses as head of fema, declares on live tv 3 days after the hurricane hit, that fema has only now learnt about the hurricane and you want to tell me that michael brown is "allegedly" disgraced?... please...

why is that?...you can read his mind?... anyway... i see you have no reply to what i said about haliburton... let's see what cnn-money thinks about it:

igloo...you're such a dumbass... destruction's post was a joke... just like the picture is... just like g.w.bush... ...and yes, just like you...

here's another one for all the bushies... i think that like the other one i posted, it characterizes bush's response pretty well... oh and btw, guess who got the contract for cleaning up after katrina... you got it, haliburton subsidiary KB&R...that's right, they "won" the contract for natural disaster clean-up last july...

spot on!

my favourite about this picture has to still be the presidential seal on the guitar... he couldn't play with a regular guitar, he had to have one made with the presidential seal on it... what a moron...

????...otay...

now, tell me g.w.bush isn't the world's biggest moron... come on all you bushies, chickenhawks, and right-wingers defend him...come on, i dare you...

very well put...

YOU BET YOUR LIFE By Michael C. Ruppert © Copyright 2005, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only. September 2, 2005 0600 PST (FTW) -- Following these remarks is a brilliant piece of reporting by the American Progress Action Fund. It makes a clear case for what we are all now suspecting and seeing: the Bush administration is horribly mismanaging relief efforts along the Gulf Coast. Several things are now becoming clear. It is unlikely that New Orleans will ever be significantly rebuilt. When we talk about collapse as a result of Peak Oil, New Orleans is an exemplary – if horrifying – glimpse of what it will look like for all of us. In the case of New Orleans, however, it’s happening about two or three times as fast as we will see it when Peak Oil becomes an unavoidable, ugly, global reality. How long? Months. If we’re lucky, a year. As of August 2005 it’s not just a race to make sure that a particular region is not eaten by warfare and economic collapse. Mother Nature is obviously very hungry too. What region will be the next to go? What sacrifices can be offered before the inevitable comes knocking at our own personal door? Who can be pushed ahead of us into the mouth of the hungry beast in the hopes it will become sated? How low can human beings sink? Keep watching the news. It’s not the first time civilizations have collapsed. This has all happened many times before. This behavior is not new. What is new — but is now dying — is our enshrined belief that there were to be no consequences of our reckless consumption and destruction of the ecosystem. What is now dying a horrible death is America’s grotesque global arrogance, brutality and cupidity. What is not being discussed rationally by the mainstream media is Katrina’s impact on energy production. They don’t dare. By my calculations and those of oil energy expert Jan Lundberg, the United States has just lost between 20% and 25% of its energy supply. My projection is that it’s not coming back — at least not most of it. As a result of Katrina, Saudi Arabia has finally admitted that it cannot increase production. Many of us knew they’ve been lying for at least two years. The Energy Information Administration has just admitted that global demand has been outstripping supply for several months before Katrina. Nice time to start telling the truth. Nature is finally calling everybody’s bluff. The liars, deniers and mentally ill will be exposed soon enough and they will pay their own price. Daniel Yergin will finally get his comeuppance. FTW’s race is to reach as many people as possible who want to prepare and are willing to prepare for this in local community settings. You save whom you can. Gulf energy production has four main components: drilling and production, pipeline delivery to shore, refinery capacity, and then delivery to the rest of the nation. We have heard precious little about the damage to Louisiana’s Port Fourchon which is the largest point at which energy passes from sea to land in the region. It is heavily damaged and mostly inoperable for now, despite optimistic financial reports, intended to calm the markets, stating that “damage is minimal.†I am quite sure that I speak for the maybe 250,000 New Orleans residents who couldn’t or wouldn’t get out when I say, “Screw the markets!†Production, if and when it starts trickling again, will most likely shift to Port Murphy or to Lake Charles. Sounds easy in the abstract, but the corporate headquarters at which to make and implement those decisions were mostly located in New Orleans. Shifting energy flows will never replace what was lost because those two facilities already face the daunting task of restoring their own output. They can’t handle the additional burden of compensation for what has been lost. As one astute and great researcher put it, “How will the oil companies even find their workers or tell them where to report for work?†Where will the workers live? Where will they buy groceries? How will they get to and from work if the gasoline they’re supposed to produce isn’t there? The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port (LOOP) is also much more seriously damaged than press accounts disclose. It’s here that supertankers from overseas (used to) offload. They have no place else to do it. They’re too big. I have seen video of LOOP damage which doesn’t look anything like the minimal damage that’s been reported. OK, so when the port is fixed what about the damaged pipelines running to shore? How many boat anchors have been dragged over them? In how many places are they ruptured, crushed or broken? As many as twenty offshore rigs have now been confirmed as adrift, capsized, listing or sunk. Each rig may have as many as eight wells. Where’s the money coming from to replace them? How long will that take? Bottom line: my assessment is that New Orleans is never going to be rebuilt and that US domestic oil production will never again reach pre-Katrina levels. The infrastructure is gone, the people are gone, and the US economy will be on life support very, very quickly. If people are griping at $5.00 gasoline what will they do when it’s $8.00? $10.00? Start shooting (the wrong people)? How difficult is it to rebuild in that kind of social climate? And if US oil production does not soon exceed pre-Katrina levels then the US economy is doomed anyway. It’s a catch-up game now. I think it’s quite likely that the Bush administration is responding so ineptly in part because it is in a complete crisis mode realizing that the entire United States is on the brink of collapse and there’s very little they can do about it. The Bush administration doesn’t know how to build things up, only blow them up. They aren’t worrying about New Orleans because they’re frantically triaging the rest of the nation and deciding what can be saved elsewhere. What lingers for all of us is the inexplicably bovine behavior of the Bush administration. And how in the name of a loving God could Louisiana’s Attorney General Charles Foti say on national television that he will prosecute those who loot for survival with the same vigor as those who have looted for profit and greed? Even New Orleans police are smarter and better than this. They’re letting people go who have taken food, water, shoes that fit their feet and clothing that fits their bodies. Those who understand the situation condemn Mr. Foti’s callous and unreasoned position in the strongest possible terms. And may God have mercy on the Democratic Party if it approaches the 2008 campaign with a platform saying that oil will flow, the prices will fall, and unbridled consumption will return if only we elect Hillary. I was on ABC network satellite radio yesterday and after the show I repeated an observation that has been clear to me for some time. “Demand destruction†has become a priority not only to mitigate Peak Oil but also to mitigate global warming. The United States, with 5% of the world’s people, consumes (wastes) 25% of the world’s energy. How do you destroy demand? You collapse the economy. Homeless, unemployed “refugees†(what a cold, depersonalizing term) don’t buy gas, take trips, fly on airplanes or buy consumer goods (made with energy and requiring energy to operate). They don’t use air conditioning because they can’t afford it. They are the embodiment of Henry Kissinger’s infamous term “useless eaters,†a phrase from the Nazi vocabulary. If energy demand destruction, as acknowledged by the Bilderbergers and the CFR, is a priority, then the only – I repeat only – beast that must be tamed is the United States. What happens when we run out of the poor and “minority†people whom our country has historically regarded as expendable – and the beast is still not satisfied? The people in New Orleans and Mississippi are being sacrificed just as surely as the World Trade Center, Pentagon and airline victims were sacrificed on 9/11. The most chilling thing I have heard is that hurricane Katrina fell on the thirteenth anniversary of Hurricane Andrew which devastated Florida in 1992. Hurricanes are named alphabetically. Andrew was the first tropical storm of 1992. Katrina was the eleventh of 2005 and the hurricane season is just beginning. There are more storms forming now. Some of them will most likely become very large hurricanes because water temperatures are so high in our dying oceans. Go ahead. Tell me we’ve all been wrong about Peak Oil, about climate collapse, and the metastatic corruption of our government and economic system. Now it’s an easy bet and one that we will not have to wait long to settle. I’ll take your wager. As New Orleans is showing us, and as Groucho Marx once said, “You bet your life!†In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. AMERICAN PROGRESS Questions of Preparedness Hurricane Katrina will likely be the worst natural disaster in our nation's history. If indeed thousands have perished, as New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin predicted yesterday, it will also be the deadliest natural disaster in the United States in at least a century, since the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. And as one Louisiana paper put it, "No one can say they didn't see it coming. " There have been "decades of repeated warnings about a breach of levees or failure of drainage systems that protect New Orleans from the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain." It's "inappropriate to 'blame' anyone for a natural disaster," the Washington Post rightly observes. "But given how frequently the impact of this one was predicted, and given the scale of the economic and human catastrophe that has resulted, it is certainly fair to ask questions about disaster preparations ." Below, a few of those questions: WHERE WERE THE PLANS FOR EMERGENCY DISASTER RELIEF?: The response to Hurricane Katrina "is exposing serious failures by government leaders and crisis planners before Katrina's arrival and flawed execution by relief agencies as the disaster unfolded," the Wall Street Journal reports this morning. Communication failures have been widespread, local officials "found they lacked critical equipment and materials to use in repairs if levees breached," and even "basic emergency management" has been lacking. For instance, former FEMA chief James Lee Witt told reporters yesterday that "in the 1990s, in planning for a New Orleans nightmare scenario, the federal government figured it would pre-deploy nearby ships with pumps to remove water from the below-sea-level city and have hospital ships nearby." Now federal officials say a hospital ship won't leave its port in Baltimore until tomorrow, and isn't expected to arrive for seven days. "These things need to be planned and prepared for; it just doesn't look like it was," Witt said. Other reporters offered a chilling, first-hand perspective: "[A] striking feature of the situation there was the scant presence of civil authority. We did see police controlling some intersections but we saw no military authority and no Red Cross or other health authority. It did not appear that any disaster center had been established by the authorities to communicate with the public. There appeared to be very little, if any, response yet to the enormous challenge of housing, feeding and supporting a devastated population." WHY WAS GULF COAST DISASTER PREPARATION SUCH A LOW PRIORITY? The planning failures were not limited to the short-term emergency response. As Louisiana Rep. Bobby Jindal ®, one of three members of Congress whose homes were destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, said yesterday: "If we had been investing resources in restoring our coast, it wouldn't have prevented the storm but the barrier islands would have absorbed some of the tidal surge." Unfortunately, the resources were not invested -- either in coastal restoration or the levees -- despite years of pleas. On June 8, 2004, the emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, complained about a lack of funding for the levees, a long stretch of which had sunk by four feet: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us." The money never came through, and last year, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers "essentially stopped major work " on the levee system that has now been breached. "It was the first such stoppage in 37 years." Additionally, federal flood control spending for southeastern Louisiana was "chopped from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in 2005 ," Knight-Ridder reports, even as "federal hurricane protection for the Lake Pontchartrain vicinity in the Army Corps of Engineers' budget dropped from $14.25 million in 2002 to $5.7 million this year." The cuts were strenuously opposed by Louisiana representatives, who "urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House ." WHY WERE FEMA'S PREPAREDNESS MISSIONS DISMANTLED?: "The advent of the Bush administration in January 2001 signaled the beginning of the end for FEMA," one expert writes. In particular, the White House targeted the agency's "mitigation" programs -- "the measures taken in advance to minimize the damage caused by natural disasters" -- which emergency specialists consider "a crucial part of the strategy to save lives and cut recovery costs." Shortly after coming into office, "key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, [were] slashed and tossed aside ." FEMA's Project Impact, "a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration," was canceled outright by the Bush administration on February 28, 2001 -- ironically, the very same day of the 6.8 magnitude Nisqually earthquake in Washington state, which provided one of the "best examples of the impact the program had" in protecting people. Indeed, FEMA employees were officially "directed not to become involved in disaster preparedness functions, since a new directorate (yet to be established) will have that mission." WHY WERE INEXPERIENCED POLITICAL APPOINTEES PICKED TO HEAD FEMA?: Since taking office, President Bush "has appointed, in succession, his 2000 campaign manager and an Oklahoma lawyer whose only emergency management experience prior to joining FEMA was as an assistant city manager." According to one emergency expert, these officials "showed little interest in its work or in the missions pursued by the departed [former FEMA chief James Lee Witt]," who led emergency management in Arkansas and "reoriented FEMA from civil defense preparations to a focus on natural disaster preparedness and disaster mitigation." Indeed, Washington Monthly editor Daniel Franklin yesterday noted, "The difficulties of coordination seem to indicate we've returned to the bad old days where the FEMA administrator position is given away on the basis of political favor, rather than hard experience."

you never heard of any french companies coming under scrutiny for their dealings????... you should start to pay more attention to what you post: that's taken straight from your first post on your thread "France Gave Passports to Fleeing Iraqi Officials"...

we do have a problem... you being such a HYPOCRITE...that's the problem... now you're talking about the french government...how typical...stop trying to mix everything up like our gov't does... who's talking about passports... i'm not comparing u.s. businesses with the french government... i'm comparing french companies with u.s. companies... when you hear anything from anyone about french companies, you guys jump on them, and insult them, france and every french citizen... but when you get real hard facts about u.s. companies doing business that are in the axis of evil, all you say is "they have some explaining to do"... well tell me this... what would you say if all the companies in this article were french?... would you say that they have some explaining to do?... yea right... p.s.: and for your information, our gov't as well as u.s. companies have supplied iraq (and many other countries), with weapons, including wmd's...

what's my point?... well, my point is the same you have when you talk about the french companies that "supposedly" deal/dealt with nations in the axis of evil... you sure have a lot to say about companies behaving like that when they're french... but somehow, when they're ours, it doesn't seem to bother you nearly as much... allegations against french companies: kill them all...fuckin' bastards...^&*(%!... sure-fire facts against u.s. companies: mmm...some explaining to do... that's my point...

well, i'm surprised it's taking this long, since we supposedly had proof positive that they had wmd's...(or did we?...ah nah...forged documents)... i mean powell was so adamant that our intelligence services knew for sure where those wmd's were that you'd think they'd have found one by now... patience my ass...according to powell at the u.n., we knew for a fact that they had so many wmd's, and we knew for a fact where they were... how can it be that out of all these wmd's iraq had, and all the intelligence we had, we haven't found one yet... not one... and don't tell me they destroyed them all... the numbers of wmd's that powell claimed iraq had was far too great to be destroyed in a couple of days before the war started (e.g. 25,000 liters of anthrax, hundreds of bombs, at least 8 different kinds of biological agents, etc...)... seems hardly technically impossible... and no, i don't want the u.s. to fall on its face... i want the u.s. to take the control back from these impostors in the white house, and start acting like the great nation we are (or should be)...

<bump>

i think it's just that we've been through this so many times, it's not even funny... this is what?...the 40th time, the pentagon claims to have found wmd's... and everytime they retract (quietly too)... the gov't itself has announced that it seriously doubts ever finding wmd's in iraq... btw, can you believe how bad this board is becoming man?... most threads just end up in insult contests... sad... p.s.: but carl, you know what's awful quiet?... the thread i started on halliburton and their dealings with countries in the axis of evil... i think i'll go bump that...

talk about conspiracy theories... all allegations no facts... my favorite part of this article filled with hatred, insinuations and baseless allegations has to be: The report could not be independently confirmed. i love how you are all so eager and ready to swallow any bs story that the news will serve up as long as it bashes on france... meanwhile, the article does nothing more than allegate...no facts, no names, no numbers... if you're going to talk about dirty shit that gov'ts did in this war, you might as well talk about something that is known to be true... for example... let's talk about the fact that our secretary of state presented forged documents to the u.n. when he "made" his case for going to war... i wonder if he got this documents from the same intelligence officials that informed the times for this article... the best part of that debacle was when a week later, the head of the international atomic agency pointed straight at powell (with his finger) and denounced him and his lies...the only thing powell could do was lower his head, and look down at the desk... now i wonder why there were almost no articles about that... i mean that has solid facts and has been more than verified... i also wonder why you guys didn't talk about that... funny how you'd rather talk about shit that france "allegdely" did, than the shit that our own gov't is doing and being caught red-handed in doing... and if you want to talk about companies that deal with terrorist countries, why go all the way to france(again no facts) ... why, we have our great vice president's former company right here: the great halliburton... halliburton and others are doing business with terrorist nations as we speak...(iran, syria...)... and that's no allegation...that's a fact... what could top that off?... well, how about these companies (halliburton, ge and conoco), are using offshore accounts and sub-contractors and so evading taxes to make money in the countries of the axis of evil..in effect using u.s. tax payers' money to make business in the countries we are supposed to be against... (see my other post...thread "halliburton and the axis of evil")...

Prompted by heightened concerns about corporate ties to states sponsoring terrorist activity, New York City Comptroller William C. Thompson, Jr. is calling for a review of three U.S. companies that conduct business with terrorist-linked countries. Thompson has submitted shareholder resolutions on behalf of the New York City Police and Fire Department Pension Funds to the Halliburton Company, ConocoPhillips and the General Electric Company. The resolutions call on shareholders to vote to establish a Board of Directors' committee to review the corporation's operations with reference to "potential financial and reputational risks." "If we are trying to eradicate terrorism, we must ensure that companies in our portfolio are not using off-shore subsidiaries to legally evade United States sanctions against terrorist-sponsoring states," Comptroller Thompson said. "This is an issue of paramount importance." "We believe their use of off-shore and United Kingdom subsidiaries to establish operations with countries that sponsor terrorism violates the spirit, if not the letter of the law," he added. "These actions also expose the companies to the prospect of negative publicity, public protests, and a loss of consumer confidence, all of which can have a negative impact on shareholder value." Halliburton opened an office in Iran under the name Halliburton Products and Services Ltd., its Cayman Islands subsidiary, in February 2000. The resolution requests the following statement be put before shareholders for a vote at Halliburton's annual meeting on May 21: "The Iranian government has actively supported and funded terrorist operations against innocent civilians outside its own borders. These activities led to the imposition of government sanctions that provide that virtually all trade and investment activity with Iran by U.S. corporations is prohibited." The Police and Fire Department funds have more than $18 million in holdings in Halliburton. In total, the city's five pension funds have invested more than $23 million in the corporation. Halliburton has challenged the resolution. The firm has asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to refrain from sanctioning the company if Halliburton omits the proposal from its 2003 proxy materials. The SEC has not yet responded to the request. General Electric conducts business operations with the Iranian government through its Canadian subsidiary, General Electric Hydro. The two funds have more than $205 million in holdings in General Electric. The city's five funds have invested $951 million in General Electric. Discussions began between the Comptroller's Office and General Electric last week to examine the issue. ConocoPhillips has operations in Iran and Syria through its UK subsidiary, Conoco, Ltd. The two funds have more than $31 million in holdings in ConocoPhillips. The city's five pension funds have invested more than $124 million in ConocoPhillips. ConocoPhillips has not challenged the resolution.

ok...i'm back...don't worry i didn't forget you... why don't you stop your whining for a second there... i twisted your words?... please tell me how... this was your statement: World prices are set by OPEC. Iraq output would not have a large impact on the price.. I really think people think we are going to smuggle the millions of barrells from IRAQ on some cruise ship under everyone noses.. uh oh did I start another conspiracy theory??? ok... do we agree?...or are you going to tell me that i somehow gain administrator rights, and modified the whole thread... well whether you like it or not, your statement was plain wrong... world prices of oil are not set by opec... that's it end of story... stop trying to talk your way out... i did not twist your words...you posted this shit...not me... now after that happened, you tried to change little by little what you said... that's what you want to do?...fine...i don't care... anybody reading the thread can see that you posted something totally wrong, and that you then proceed to try to talk your way out of it... now for the rest of your post... "why didn't we take it 91 when we had U.N approval behind us???" seriously... again a great testament to your living in lala land... we didn't have un approval to take iraq's oil in 91...not then not now... You still dodged the fact that you have stated we dropped the twin towers so we can invade Afghanistan why? i didn't know who ted rall was before you mentioned him to me... i didn't avoid anything about the twin towers... i have believed and explained why, from the start, i think that some officials including the president knew of the wtc attacks beforehand...

there's no "either way"... don't try to talk your way out of this shit... you came on this thread, and try to post like you know everything and everybody else has no idea how the "real" world works... well you know what?...you were wrong... your facts were completely wrong... end of story...