what if...

[wideskies]

you met someone really wonderful who you clicked with completely... you fall in love and spend several fantastic years together going on all sorts of adventures, having great sex, and feeling as though you could spend the rest of your life with the person...

.. but then you find out that s/he was not born the gender that s/he currently is.

would you immediately dump the person in disgust and anger and never speak to him or her again?

would you try to work through the anger part of it and stay friends because you clicked so well?

or would you attempt to stay in the relationship despite the fact that the person was not who you thought s/he was?...

i guess this question is relevent no matter your sexual orientation (because of the lying/trust issue) but i am curious as to what the heterosexuals out there would do.

would you give up on someone wonderful once you realized you were sleeping with someone of the same sex?

[velvetgoldmire]

Honestly, I can imagine getting really freaked out... upset to say the least, and would need time away to think about it and reevaluate everything. I would be upset for not knowing about that, but I could understand how someone would not share that about themselves. I would need time away from the person, and test the depths of the relationship with this newfound information. I'd probably do a lot os self-evaluation. I can't say that I would get rid of the person from my life... time would tell the tale on that one. The noble answer is "Oh, it doesn;t matter what the person is like, I had this phenominal connection, and this individual makes me feel whole," but realistically, that is huge news, and I would have to ask myself if this is the person I really knew before. Time would tell the true tale. The reason why I am straight is because I am sexually charged by women and not by guys... I find everything inticing about the female form and ways. I cannot say for sure, but I do not think I would automatically eject the person from my life, but I would definitaly need time away from them.

[phatman]

...i honestly can say...i'm not sure what i would do...it's easy to speak in theories but who the fuck knows what you'll feel when something like this goes down...the honesty/lying is a huge issue, but how many heteros would isolate that as the only issue, perhaps scapegoating their other issues by concentrating on this one...who knows...i'll worry about it if and when it happens...and since i cant even get a date with a blow-up doll, odds are that wont be for a loooong time...

[wideskies]

i bet that if you had rescued that blow up doll from the lake it would have gone on a date with u. ;]

[phatman]

Originally posted by wideskies

i bet that if you had rescued that blow up doll from the lake it would have gone on a date with u. ;]

with my luck, she'd turn out to be gay...

[wideskies]

well, perhaps you could work on your crossdressing skills and...

*bites into sandwich* mm pb+j

[velvetgoldmire]

Or, in this case, she was actually a guy at one point, but the manufacturer changed her. So, I guess that would make the blow up doll gay... or would it. Rah! It's too early in the morning! *sips coffee*

[phatman]

...those skills are quite refined as it is...

*starts singing Madonna, "...do you know what it feels like for a girl..." *

[hoke]

Originally posted by wideskies

or would you attempt to stay in the relationship despite the fact that the person was not who you thought s/he was?...

Isn't she though? Does she not have the same personality? Does she not turn me on in bed? Do I not connect with her better than anyone I've ever met -- intellectually, emotionally, and physically?

Maybe I'm fooling myself, but I don't think it would faze me all that much. If anything, I might be hurt that I hadn't been told earlier, but then again... that's a pretty big revelation and it might take a few years for the person to reach a point where she feels secure enough to open up about it.

I really doubt that I'd be disgusted/repulsed or anything like that.

[mindfaqd]

how could u guys say that it wouldn't phase u? the whole relationship (regardless of how perfect it seems) was based on a lie. aren't trust and honesty 2 of the major factors of a good relationship?

I'd have to cut "it" loose and take a long scalding hot shower.

[flying_high]

I think that is a very interesting question...thanks wideskies.

I honestly can't really say what I would feel at that particular moment. I don't think the trust issue would be the big problem here as I wouldn't imagine and expect someone that went through a sex-change, to run around and tell everyone first thing into a conversation.

The thought itself, especially as I haven't detected any bi-sexual qualities in my life so far, would probably rather freak me out. It's stupid, I know but I do think that I would reevaluate the relationship and see how deep it really is. If my feelings for that person are what I believed them to be, I would probably get over it try to look beyond it. I would probably be though saddened by the fact that we would never be able to have our own little family. Still, I don't think I would ditch that person at all...as I can't see any reason to do so. I'm not fooling myself by saying that it doesn't matter at all....it would probably require some hard thinking before I could make peace with that fact and continue the relationship.

[phatman]

Originally posted by mindfaqd

how could u guys say that it wouldn't phase u? the whole relationship (regardless of how perfect it seems) was based on a lie. aren't trust and honesty 2 of the major factors of a good relationship?

I'd have to cut "it" loose and take a long scalding hot shower.

...i didnt say either or but thanks for supporting my statement from above,

"...the honesty/lying is a huge issue, but how many heteros would isolate that as the only issue, perhaps scapegoating their other issues by concentrating on this one..."

..if this was about honesty and trust you would not have used the word "it' or take a scalding shower...you're only kidding yourself if you believe it is...

[somebitch]

Originally posted by mindfaqd

how could u guys say that it wouldn't phase u? the whole relationship (regardless of how perfect it seems) was based on a lie. aren't trust and honesty 2 of the major factors of a good relationship?

I'd have to cut "it" loose and take a long scalding hot shower.

ditto.

id be fucken pissed that they lied and seduced me when i was believing something that wasnt true. i kick "its" ass.

[mindfaqd]

Originally posted by phatman

..if this was about honesty and trust you would not have used the word "it' or take a scalding shower...you're only kidding yourself if you believe it is...

don't make me out to be a homophobe. I've had plenty of homosexual friends in my life and it didn't phase me in the least.

But after thinking that it was a girl for years, and then having the wool pulled from ur eyes to reveal that everything u believed is a lie, "it" is the only word that describes the living lie that ur with.

The scalding hot shower issue is something different. I have trouble thinking that a guy is a girl becuz the doctor cut his dick off. Thats still a guy and I'm not homosexual. So not being knowledgable about being involved in a homosexual experience would skeeve me.

[velvetgoldmire]

The whole issue is mute anyway. If it were a guy changed into a girl... fully changed into a girl, and I had "the best sex of my life", that would not be true at all. For one, the only thing doctors can do is skin molding, to make it look like a pus. There is no natural wetness, no stimulation of the clit, since there is no clit, and that would be a HUGE factor for me, since I LOVE going down on girls. Plus, great sex to me is pleasuring the opther person, not just being pleasured, so I couldn't possibly have the best sex of my life with someone who... just ain't right down there. They wouldn't have the proper sensation, so how could they get off when I'm eating them out? That would be a huge problem for me, so I would probably have moved on before this huge breakthrough was even announced, leaving me none-the-wiser, with no life-altering issues to deal with.

[hoke]

Some of these replies disgust me.

The whole relationship would not be based on a lie. Everything you'd ever experienced together would still be very much real. This would just be one more piece of information that you weren't aware of before.

Look... let's take away the sex aspect of it for a moment. Let's say you're just friends with the person. Very good friends. You met a few years ago; now you hang out, you watch movies, you go to clubs, you go to each other's birthday parties, you talk about your problems, you support each other. These are things that good friends do.

Now you learn that the person was born of the opposite gender.

Are you no longer friends? Was it all fake -- the laughs, the good times, the emotional support?

I didn't think so.

Now add the sex back in.

See what I'm getting at?

P.S. velvetgoldmire: It's a hypothetical question. Some suspension of disbelief is required for argument's sake.

[tastyt]

Veeeery interesting question. I have to wonder tho- how could you not know? As Velvetgoldmire said, things would just not be kosher down there... idk what a post-op fem-male transsexual's genitalia looks like, but I'm sure it doesn't resemble a regular guy's.

But practical issues aside, my immediate thoughts would be that I'd been lied to all those years... granted, I'm not straight so I wouldn't be grossed out knowing I'd been sleeping with a biological female all those years... But I don't think you could really get over a lie that big.

[somebitch]

Originally posted by hoke

Some of these replies disgust me.

The whole relationship would not be based on a lie. Everything you'd ever experienced together would still be very much real. This would just be one more piece of information that you weren't aware of before.

Look... let's take away the sex aspect of it for a moment. Let's say you're just friends with the person. Very good friends. You met a few years ago; now you hang out, you watch movies, you go to clubs, you go to each other's birthday parties, you talk about your problems, you support each other. These are things that good friends do.

Now you learn that the person was born of the opposite gender.

Are you no longer friends? Was it all fake -- the laughs, the good times, the emotional support?

I didn't think so.

Now add the sex back in.

See what I'm getting at?

P.S. velvetgoldmire: It's a hypothetical question. Some suspension of disbelief is required for argument's sake.

thats a huge event in someones life, if you were really friends they would have told you about that somewhere along the way, hopefully before the sex.

people should be able to make decisions based on reality.

this person isnt a good friend if they would have sex with you without letting you know that they were previously the opposite gender. i wouldnt want friend like that.

if they told me and i decided to have sex with them that would be another story of course...

[tastyt]

Originally posted by hoke

Some of these replies disgust me.

The whole relationship would not be based on a lie. Everything you'd ever experienced together would still be very much real. This would just be one more piece of information that you weren't aware of before.

Look... let's take away the sex aspect of it for a moment. Let's say you're just friends with the person. Very good friends. You met a few years ago; now you hang out, you watch movies, you go to clubs, you go to each other's birthday parties, you talk about your problems, you support each other. These are things that good friends do.

Now you learn that the person was born of the opposite gender.

Are you no longer friends? Was it all fake -- the laughs, the good times, the emotional support?

I didn't think so.

Now add the sex back in.

See what I'm getting at?

P.S. velvetgoldmire: It's a hypothetical question. Some suspension of disbelief is required for argument's sake.

I disagree... your relationship was on a level that implies greater intimacy than that of people who are "just" friends.

[velvetgoldmire]

So you are implying that sex really isn't that big of a deal in a relationship. And that there is no difference between a friendship and a commited relationship. Sorry, the hoke, but there are differences. I feel that my response (check the first post after wideskies began the topic) was fair and realsitic. You are sickened because people are being honest? While to you, it may not be that big of a deal, for others it is. You are an idealist, and I wish to god the world were as tollerant as you say you would be if this situation came up, but the fact of the matter is it does bother some people.

I'll pose another similar question to you:

You met someone, formed this deep bond, connect with the person on every single plane possible, and feel like a hundred bucks. It's the best sex of your life. Then, one day, she comes up to you and admits that she is, in fact, your sister, knew about it the entire time, but did not tell you for fear of how you would react. You get a blood test, and it is conformed... she is your sister, who you didn't even know you had. Would the relationship still be the same?

[phatman]

Originally posted by tastyt

... granted, I'm not straight so ...

:eek:

..whoa...you didnt say a word about this the other night...

[hoke]

Originally posted by tastyt

But practical issues aside, my immediate thoughts would be that I'd been lied to all those years... granted, I'm not straight so I wouldn't be grossed out knowing I'd been sleeping with a biological female all those years... But I don't think you could really get over a lie that big.

I think you have to make an effort to see it from the other person's perspective. I can hardly imagine the fear of rejection that would come with revealing such information. Basically, the person did not expose herself sooner for fear of losing you (a justifiable fear, considering some of the responses to this question). Now you have to make a decision: do you accept the person for who/what she is, and forgive her for not wanting to be this vulnerable sooner? Or do you validate her fears?

I guess it depends how much value you place on the relationship. Wideskies described it as a fairly splendid relationship... Personally, I don't think I'd want to give it up.

[velvetgoldmire]

I think we should get together, write a script on this subject, make a REALLY bad independent movie, and premiere it at Cannes or Sundance. We could make a fortune!!!

[hoke]

I'm not implying that sex is not important in a relationship, or that sex does not change a relationship. I'm just trying to separate the topic of trust from people's aversion to sleeping with someone of the same gender.

It's one thing to say, "I'd be disgusted that I slept with a man/woman." It's another thing entirely to say that the entire relationship was based on a lie. To say so basically implies that sex and the rest of the relationship are inseparable, which I think they are not.

To answer your question, velvetgoldmire, no, of course the relationship would not be the same. I'm not implying that it would be in the original scenario, either. However, I think there's a big difference in the situation you propose. The questions would be more comparable if my lover admitted that she was once my sister but no longer is (which, of course, is impossible).

Thinking further about the original question, I almost feel compelled to question whether trust was betrayed at all. Suppose my lover were once a man, but no longer is. Therefore, we got together under the accurate understanding that we are of opposite genders. I see no harm in that.

I guess this is one of those Chasing Amy "fingercuffs" discussions... how readily do we accept our lovers' past, when the past does not correspond with our current understanding of them? How important is the past, if they are no longer the same person today? It's something we all struggle with at some point.

[somebitch]

Originally posted by hoke

How important is the past, if they are no longer the same person today? It's something we all struggle with at some point.

if its not so important then why wouldnt they have told you about it before??

people make decisions based on what they know and if you intentionally lead/allow someone to believe something that is not the truth youre a liar and i personally wouldnt want that in my life.