ATTN LP/Spacious PLEASE Dont Cancel Marco

[djdekan]

PLease......

Bump my petition.

[CHRles]

Do you really expect to be a dj with your attitude? I'm sorry, but some of your posts lately have people going "wtf"...

Your love/hate relationship with Club Space and its owners is amusing to say the least. You're acting like a spoiled little brat, and someone who doesn't appreciate everything and everyone that Club Space has brought to Miami. Stop taking clubs for granted, and expecting them to always play host to what you want to hear. Club Space has to make money, not to make Pete Dekan happy all the time. After all the negative things you've said about them lately you still have the nerve to ask them to do something for you?

It'd be great if Marco V. came to Miami (I think he's even better then Picotto), and if it can't be at Club space then Club Spin is definitely better then nothing. It's a smaller club, but it just might make for a better vibe in this case. Oh, and a club shutting down at 5 a.m. is not the end of the world.

If the owners at Space feel they should cancel the Marco V. booking then that's their choice. Why don't you go ahead and see what it means to open up your own club where you only book the talent you want to hear. See how much that will cost you, how many people will show up, see if the cops and city aren't breathing down your neck, etc.

People on the board like Pod and Sobeton have tried explaining to you about the current state of the economy and of South FL, and they're right. You should be thankful you're living in Miami where you can still see plenty of great local and out of town talent. Oh, and You can still probably catch Marco around the Winter Music Conference.

You've also gotta realize that while there's a good number of people in Miami that are into Trance most of them aren't as deeply into it as you are. A lot of the girls are digging a lot of the cheesy remakes nowadays (remixes to "Rhythm is a Dancer", "She's Like The Wind", and "I Will Always Love You"), and they seem to melt to it much moreso then to anything by Chris Liebing. It's not easy to play a good set, and you might want to think about the title of PVD's CD "The Politics of Dancing"...

[Guest saleen351]

Not to defend pete on what he said, but he is one of the guys who always tried to rally the troops for space fridays... He did his part to help space and i"m sure he didn't get much out of it, maybe some drink tix or someshit like that.. yea lately his posts make you wonder if hes sniffing glue, but hey, we all say shit out of our asses once in a while... Just not me...

[pod]

True enough. No one down here really likes "good trance" along the lines of Picotto, etc...(yeah I know Picotto is techy now, but bear with me...)...most trance "fans" down here, the extent of their knowledge is whatever George Acosta drops over at Level on Saturday nights.

So to bring a relatively obscure (from the US perspective) DJ from Europe to the US, Space was taking a big chance. They had been doing it a lot lately, it had worked, and it hadn't. So when Fridays at Space got canned, they probably had to cancel Marco V's set too. Now if it's still on, consider yourself fortunate. I say that because Louis has not come on here to set the record straight yet, and anything said on this board by other people is pure speculation. Marco could very well be coming to Space still. But I can speculate that the crowd will be very small, as there are other events that evening (Lee B. at Spin).

I've said it, and everyone else has said it. A club is a business. They exist to make money by providing a service to the public. We're fortunate enough to have Louis Puig even listen to us, most club owners could give a shit about CP. But in the end, a club has to make money, pay it's staff, and so forth. They can't do that if they consistently book DJs that are not a draw in a big venue. Do you have any idea of the operations cost of a club that big? Space's electric bill must be at least $1000-$1500 a night! Payroll is easily $20,000+ a night, the off-duty cops get $25/hr, then you factor in the monthly lease, along with the obvious costs of a DJ, promoter's fees, promotions, etc...it ain't cheap to run that behemoth. Plus, they're trying to do the new building, so there's another cost too! Space, and every other club, has to make a compromise between quality talent, and paying the bills. At this stage in their careers, DJs like Marco V, Johan Van Gielen, and so on are not going to help. They may be huge in Europe, but not yet in the US.

If you really want to see your DJs, I would petition to see them at Spin--smaller club, less overhead, more room to experiment, etc. See if you can get them to can Spin Saturdays or something, and start a new night, call it Dekanolution or something

CHRles had a good point too, you were trashing Space and now you're begging them for something? Strange...

[sobeton]

Dan > I agree with everything you stated, with the exception of the first paragraph. I think that people down here do appreciate good trance. a majority of trance fans are quite knowledgeable; when it comes to artist within that genre music. can an artist like Johan Gielen, or Marco V, who play more then trance pack Space? I doubt it.

which is why I would fully support a venue like spin; maybe using Saturday’s to present and develop breaking trance/ tech dj talent.

[Guest saleen351]

if main stream club music can't pack em in, why do u guys think trance will? makes no sense, let it go, you can't make money on trance in america..its ova..

[pod]

The tricky part to establish a night like that @ Spin on Saturdays is to break the SMAC hegemony that currently exists there, and elsewhere on the beach. Apparently, Saturdays are when the celebrity types like to go to Spin, and it will be difficult to unseat that. Though I imagine the trendy folk will not even notice if the music format changes from rap DJ so and so to say Johan Gielen or some tech DJs like Jay Tripwire, Marco Carola (who was down here two weeks ago, didja know that? He was at BED of all places...geez..)

Though with recent developments within the Space family, I can forsee something like this maybe coming to a head?

Spin is by far the most efficient club to have a 'new talent' night in for sure, it has a great soundsystem, good lighting and visuals, and it's small enough that it doesn't take a Herculean effort to pack it.

A lot of these DJs though, are struggling with the trance genre as a whole, some are moving beyond it, and are labeled as trance still...look at Picotto, for example...it took forever for Sasha and John to shake the 'progressive trance' label, but they pulled it off eventually.

True trance may be dead in the US, but the trance DJs who played it are starting to move beyond it themselves.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by saleen351

Not to defend pete on what he said, but he is one of the guys who always tried to rally the troops for space fridays... He did his part to help space and i"m sure he didn't get much out of it, maybe some drink tix or someshit like that.. yea lately his posts make you wonder if hes sniffing glue, but hey, we all say shit out of our asses once in a while... Just not me...

very well stated Saleen..

just to add Pete is very passionate about trance music; sometimes to a fault. personally I can’t help but admire that.

[mikeydny]

Pete what happened to the fuck Space, im never giving them my money again attitude.....just go see him at Arc.

[pod]

That's not always the answer for some people though, Mikey. Not all of us have the time or the patience to waste on going to NYC for 2 lousy days just to see a DJ. Not to mention the money. Don't give me the "JetBlue" response either, JetBlue's nice if you don't mind being packed in like a sardine for three hours...

I can understand in a way if you're dedicated to someone who never comes down here, such as Marco, but I wonder sometimes when people do it when the DJ will be down here 3 or 4 weeks later anyway.

[mikeydny]

Originally posted by pod

That's not always the answer for some people though, Mikey. Not all of us have the time or the patience to waste on going to NYC for 2 lousy days just to see a DJ. Not to mention the money. Don't give me the "JetBlue" response either, JetBlue's nice if you don't mind being packed in like a sardine for three hours...

I can understand in a way if you're dedicated to someone who never comes down here, such as Marco, but I wonder sometimes when people do it when the DJ will be down here 3 or 4 weeks later anyway.

I just said that because in Petes signature it said the date he was at Arc....

As far as Jetblue, tell me another airline that flies from Fort Lauderdale/Miami to Newark, JFK, Laguardia, where the plane is really that huge, I always fly jetblue, its more comfortable then continental or delta.....im speaking of the planes with 3 seats on each side.....

[pod]

United and American rule

hehe let's argue over airlines!

Where's Dekan in all this? He hasn't replied yet to this thread?

[djdekan]

Not to defend pete on what he said, but he is one of the guys who always tried to rally the troops for space fridays... He did his part to help space and i"m sure he didn't get much out of it, maybe some drink tix or someshit like that.. yea lately his posts make you wonder if hes sniffing glue, but hey, we all say shit out of our asses once in a while... Just not me...

ThanX

I was nothing but Supportive of Space Fridays, I went everynight.

Things that have happened there (IE Last night) Do fucking piss me off , but as much as i say fuck you to space, i say thank you as well. Yes it is a business but LP I thought was giving something a try on Fridays by booking more (new) talent, he hasnt given it a chance.

I would glady give louis 50 bucks for admission, because i support Marco V and anything that attempts to help the trance scene grow here.

U have to see my frustartion here, my favorite dj/producer was a week and a half away and he may get canned. Also the news of fridays not happening is another blow, as a dj i want to see trance grow so its a little disheartening when a whole night is cancelled beacuse trance cant get a crowd that is all fucked up and has to play with glowsticks to have a good time.

[pod]

Originally posted by djdekan

trance grow so its a little disheartening when a whole night is cancelled beacuse trance cant get a crowd that is all fucked up and has to play with glowsticks to have a good time.

I take it you meant "trance gets nothing but a crowd that..."

True enough....what kills the trance crowd is the overabundance of drug use compared to other scenes. Tiësto comes to town, and there probably is a run on the drug dealers.

Too much of that every weekend leaves a person burnt...you get people 'on the scene' for six months, and then they are fried from overuse of a drug...and the ones that are there usually end up just sitting next to a speaker all night, wasting space.

You can pretty much blame most of the downfall of trance on the drug use.

[sgtfury]

you know what...ive got to say something here because i see this shit constantly go on...

it seems that some on this board really hate trance music and thats cool because thats what makes everyone a individual with individual likes and dislikes..however, dont let your dislike for a certain musical genre cloud just plain common sense..

to say trance is over here in the U.S. is just fucking ignorant..whether you like it or not..tiesto, marco v, piccotto, geilen, corsten, judge jules, armin van buren are some of the most sought after DJs right now and they utilize trance as major elements of thier sets..

and..

i wonder if pete would have gotten any shit if he had complained about dany howells or lee burridge not coming to space?..oh im sure he would have had full support from the "CP mafia"...funny thing is if there is one person on this fucking board that really is about the music...it is pete...he is a ACTIVE PARTICIPANT...he has sacrificed and given a lot to support the scene..hes not just someone who buys the latest global underground CD, posts 15000 posts on cluplanet and declares themselves a musical genius..

IF THE FUCKING SHOE FITS..WEAR IT..

[CHRles]

I'm happy to see a lot of good replies on this thread:)

Pete, I totally understand your frustration. I'm glad you have a passion for the music, I just didn't like how things seemed to get ugly on the board this past week. A little negativity and having a place to vent is cool, but some people were really taking things to the extreme, which didn't seem to help anyone.

As far as Trance staying alive, it's really up to the producers, and I'm happy to say there's are a LOT of good producers turning out some nice 4 by 4 Trance music, whether on the Progressive, Melodic, Vocal, Tech, Epic, Hard, Deep, etc. There's just a lot of good product (both commercial and more underground oriented)consistently being released.

Overall though I'd have to say that when it comes to clubs, the Trance crowd in Miami (and most cities) isn't always interested in hearing something new and different every week. The reaction to certain records at special events with guest DJs doesn't always mean the local DJs will be able to bang a similar sounding set the following week on a regular night. That's part of what makes Miami's DJs really good - they're usually 10 steps ahead of most of the crowd in keeping up with the music, but during their sets they also know how to read the crowd and take a few steps back in order to give that crowd what it wants.

Pete, I know you're getting into some Tech and Progressive Trance. You're going to first need to have some of that music played in a smaller club/lounge, and nurture the scene until it might be ready to hear it in a bigger setting. From what I can tell though, the big trends in Europe are a return to Melodic Trance, and there's a growing trend towards producing Driving Trance (which a lot of the Tech DJs might go for).

My impression is that If you're going to do a Trance night on the weekend in a big club then you're going to have to play some Trance hits/anthems. Personally I don't have a problem with that at all, so long as you're not playing the same 10 records every week for 6 months.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by pod

I take it you meant "trance gets nothing but a crowd that..."

True enough....what kills the trance crowd is the overabundance of drug use compared to other scenes. Tiësto comes to town, and there probably is a run on the drug dealers.

Too much of that every weekend leaves a person burnt...you get people 'on the scene' for six months, and then they are fried from overuse of a drug...and the ones that are there usually end up just sitting next to a speaker all night, wasting space.

You can pretty much blame most of the downfall of trance on the drug use.

are you joking ?? drug use in over abundance or otherwise is inherent of the dance music culture. it is not limited to just the trance music scene. in fact I remember DT writing, a rather extensive piece about this very topic. in all honesty to sit here and post "You can pretty much blame most of the downfall of trance on the drug use." seems to be rather bias; as opposed to being based in fact. it’s this kind of thinking that resulted in the "Rave Act" legislation being proposed. an act that seeks to target electronic music, and the venues that present this genre of music.

[pod]

It's pervasive in general yes, but what I, and I think Dekan were getting at was that in the trance scene it's much more obvious so to speak...

[sobeton]

not really. anyone involved in the dance music scene, would know it’s more then obvious in more then the trance scene. then again people often see, only what they want to see.