File Sharing is destroying the US Dance Industry

[buredf]

I am writing a paper on this and I am doing research here.

As much as we all might love to file share-- it is a major reason the dance industry is being destroyed in the US.

Think about this....

The artist create the music, the labels release it and promote it, the DJ and fans support it.. fairly obvious.

But what I think people do not realize is that the file sharing is not only hurting the labels, but it is hurting the artist as well..

see big labels like Sony, Arista, they have the capital and resources to continue operating despite all the money they are losing due to file sharing....

but since there are no major Dance labels out there.. they are hurting even more..

so even though u might be file sharing and thinking u are gettin over on the record companies, you are in the process of also destroying the smaller labels who do not have the resoruces to survive..

so think about that next time u file share.

everyone has done it...

but if u do file share u are a fan on the artist... please go and support them especially in the electronic field..

[bigpoppanils]

oh please

music labels are scapegoating "filesharing" to hide that their businesses are mismanaged and that most of the content they produce is terrible

[dr0ne]

yeah that's pretty much a load of ass.

if you're writing a paper and doing "research" i sure hope you have some sources and hard numbers to back that up instead of being biased off the bat like that.....that's no way to do research. and by sources i'm not talking about calling the RIAA and asking "are you guys losing money cuz of file sharing?"

most of this culture revolves around two things.....DJ gigs and selling vinyl. NOT cheesy mix CD compilations by sandra craplins or what have you.

if you're writing a paper i sure as hell hope you're looking at this from all sides, specially from the exposure DJs get nowadays by posting their mixes up on the web....back in the day it was mix tapes exchanging hands, you'd hear about 2 new DJs a week, now it's more like 2 a day.

the only way i could see a problem in the near future is the threat of digital media (CDs, final scratch) taking over vinyl at which point people could start just playing the mp3s or burning to CD. And I doubt that's gonna happen, because any DJ worth their salt LOVES their music and what they do, and nothing beats the feeling of having that one record physically in your hand, even if you might put it on mp3 / final scratch to play later so you don't have to carry crates around....the way i see it DJs will still buy the vinyl, play the new shit on vinyl and with time put it on mp3 the older stuff just for convenience.....how many guys you know that bring the "old school crate" and play maybe 1 record out of the 100 in there? having that on mp3/cd is a huge bonus. but in the end DJs are record collectors and love their records so i don't see sales dwindling too much. maybe for the uninspired jackasses playing bullshit music they'd rather pull it out of soulseek but who gives a flying fuck about them anyway.

ok i think i'm done w/ my lil' rant.

[phuturephunk]

. . . Right thee fuck ON Ed . . . . .

[buredf]

i really think u took a strong stance on this.

Yes the INTERNET has allowed DJ's to get their stuff out and has made things alot more convienent

BUT

no matter which way u look at it..

the labels are suffering..

and the big ones are suffering..

but the smaller ones even more...

did u know kinetic is in the process of laying off almost all their staff??

w/o the labels to support DJ's, you'll be hard pressed to find new music..

the smaller labels are losing enough profits making it very hard for them to stay in business.

and btw.. i am tryin to gather opinions.. so just dont go shooting your mouth off so arrogantly

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by buredf

did u know kinetic is in the process of laying off almost all their staff??

uhh...no...although BMG's UK unit cut off funding...BMG USA has taken over funding Kinetic

[buredf]

yeh but u are missing the point

they are losing money

WHY?

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by buredf

yeh but u are missing the point

they are losing money

WHY?

once again...mismanagement...Kosheen was a huge seller in Europe...Timo Mass and Sasha have been selling very well also...yet they are still losing money...sorry i cant see how file sharing is to blame...

[buredf]

This was an interesting statement made by a small record label owner

I feel your pain on this subject...believe me I do. Owning a label myself, has been a difficult and arduous task these days. It seems that everyone's favourite label right now is the CD-R label. Funny huh? It's not! I'm a big fan of technology and being able to download MP3s, etc... However, I think this is getting a bit out of hand. I'm not going to fly off the handle here, because I don't have a full solution. I just know that as an artist and label owner, I'm one poor ass mo fo b/c of everyone being able to download my music (which I work very hard on), and not buying it. I get MP3 CDs from friends all the time (thank you Ramon). Do you know what I do when I get these CDs and files? I go out and buy the ones that I dig! The same way I used to buy stuff after getting promo CDs from indie labels (and still do). I'm tired of people telling me about this album and that album they downloaded...meanwhile the artist may be sitting at home, not able to pay their rent or take care of their kids. You think the effect isn't that direct? I'm here to tell you that it is! I have never been one to pretend that I'm rich or living in the lap of luxury. I work my ass off to survive as a musician and DJ. The stealing has to stop. A solution needs to be implemented, and soon. I'm not saying don't download music. But, if you do, pay for it. Go out and find the stuff in a better quality format...vinyl, CD, DVD, whatever. Don't think by snagging the Sasha album or the Underworld album that you're sticking your middle finger at the corporate machine...you're sticking your middle finger up at sasha and underworld, and with your other hand slapping them in the face. it's like eating at a family owned resteraunt, then doing the hog and jog. think about it people.

stryke

rest in peace SR...

[Xpander]

Originally posted by dr0ne

yeah that's pretty much a load of ass.

if you're writing a paper and doing "research" i sure hope you have some sources and hard numbers to back that up instead of being biased off the bat like that.....that's no way to do research. and by sources i'm not talking about calling the RIAA and asking "are you guys losing money cuz of file sharing?"

most of this culture revolves around two things.....DJ gigs and selling vinyl. NOT cheesy mix CD compilations by sandra craplins or what have you.

if you're writing a paper i sure as hell hope you're looking at this from all sides, specially from the exposure DJs get nowadays by posting their mixes up on the web....back in the day it was mix tapes exchanging hands, you'd hear about 2 new DJs a week, now it's more like 2 a day.

the only way i could see a problem in the near future is the threat of digital media (CDs, final scratch) taking over vinyl at which point people could start just playing the mp3s or burning to CD. And I doubt that's gonna happen, because any DJ worth their salt LOVES their music and what they do, and nothing beats the feeling of having that one record physically in your hand, even if you might put it on mp3 / final scratch to play later so you don't have to carry crates around....the way i see it DJs will still buy the vinyl, play the new shit on vinyl and with time put it on mp3 the older stuff just for convenience.....how many guys you know that bring the "old school crate" and play maybe 1 record out of the 100 in there? having that on mp3/cd is a huge bonus. but in the end DJs are record collectors and love their records so i don't see sales dwindling too much. maybe for the uninspired jackasses playing bullshit music they'd rather pull it out of soulseek but who gives a flying fuck about them anyway.

ok i think i'm done w/ my lil' rant.

Actually, in the UK market, at least...a considerable, or even a major part of the dance music market is driven by tracks licensing in big compilations. I can't say for sure that the same applies here, but I doubt that the compilation market here is SO insignificant that the revenues generated by track licensing is considered insignificant.

Otherwise, the MP3 taking away from vinyl argument IS pretty much bullshit unless you're taking into account the Final Scratch/technology element like the man said.

[phuturephunk]

. . I'd also like to add that tracking down alot of the tracks that I like to listen to on CD or Vinyl is usually a pain in the ass. . . Cuz A) I don't listen to house primarily and most of the stuff that I really really like only has regional popularity and the labels that put this music out usually have websites that are either shoddy or non-existant . . .

. . Perfect example : Fnky Records . . This is pretty much DJ Stews website . .He's made some sick . . and I mean big room BIG sound kind of sick breakbeat tracks . . Done remixes for Micro and Debo as well . . . That one link site with the 'be back shortly' has been like that for over 2 YEARS . . . Now, if he had links to say . .some record stores that he was releasing through or maybe the ability to buy the records directly from him . .I'd purchase his entire discography tomorrow . . . Instead I have to go diving through bins to find records that aren't going to be there anyways . . . And I'm not alone in this . . Lots of peeps I knew down in Florida fiended over his cuts . . . He could sell ALOT . . .

[twiloid]

i think that overall it's true that the record labels are probably loosing something from file sharing. but think about this, when i log on to kazaa or morpheus or whatever i'm not looking for airdrawndagger. if i want to burn some tiesto onto a disc, i don't look for in search on sunrise. i log on to download live sets from different clubs everywhere. these sets aren't out on cd for me to buy at virgin. they are only available to download. i don't know how many other people do this, but i know that all of my friends burn their music this way. especially when you are talking electronic music. i wouldn't log on to find an eminem concert. electronic music on the other hand is all about the live set. yes, a lot of those live sets are out as essential mixes or ministry of sound sets. most of them are not. i have never heard of the paul van dyk live at mayday 2002 disc(great set by the way). but i do have it burned and raging in my cd player.

just my opinion

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by twiloid

i think that overall it's true that the record labels are probably loosing something from file sharing. but think about this, when i log on to kazaa or morpheus or whatever i'm not looking for airdrawndagger. if i want to burn some tiesto onto a disc, i don't look for in search on sunrise. i log on to download live sets from different clubs everywhere. these sets aren't out on cd for me to buy at virgin. they are only available to download. i don't know how many other people do this, but i know that all of my friends burn their music this way. especially when you are talking electronic music. i wouldn't log on to find an eminem concert. electronic music on the other hand is all about the live set. yes, a lot of those live sets are out as essential mixes or ministry of sound sets. most of them are not. i have never heard of the paul van dyk live at mayday 2002 disc(great set by the way). but i do have it burned and raging in my cd player.

just my opinion

. . I am Sooo with you on that one! . . Thats why I loved AudioGalaxy, they had the most extensive library of live sets anywhere to be found . . I can't get those now because its gone . . . . .

[dr0ne]

i really think u took a strong stance on this.

-that was the idea

Yes the INTERNET has allowed DJ's to get their stuff out and has made things alot more convienent

BUT

no matter which way u look at it..

the labels are suffering..

and the big ones are suffering..

but the smaller ones even more...

-as a general rule i'd say the big ones are suffering more. actually the artist who puts stuff out on the big label, since he doesn't get paid 'till they get paid. i think the internet is actually HELPING the smaller labels, it's a lot easier to find out about them now. you can't find some track by some obscure label on winmx 90% of the time. besides if you DJ you want the vinyl and i've explained that already. the way to go is to fuck the big label and start a small label, cut the middle man. it doesn't take much $$$ to put a record out unless you wanna spend tens of thousands in some big studio. for electronic music? gimme a break. the only thing the big label gives you is promotion. with the internet, that gap is closing.

did u know kinetic is in the process of laying off almost all their staff??

-sure did. you wanna know why?

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20021024.html

read that article....they give examples in the tech world but it doesn't matter, it applies perfectly here. strictly rhythm and kinetic are NOT independent. They got bought out by big labels...which managed them to death. i guarantee you they'd be thriving if they stayed independent. now they burned through lots of cash due to mismanagement and hence are fucked.

w/o the labels to support DJ's, you'll be hard pressed to find new music..

-labels aren't going away any time soon. small independent labels thrive on the DJ and only on the DJ. if you buy their vinyl, you're either a DJ or a record collector, not the "general public". that's not their market. the general public contributes to this by paying to see the DJ perform, or maybe even buy his little comp CD, it's just that due to file sharing there'll be a lot less comp CDs sold. the problem w/ sharing is not label to DJ, it's DJ to public.

the smaller labels are losing enough profits making it very hard for them to stay in business.

-it's easy to use file sharing as a scapegoat. strictly rhythm went down recently right? they were a seminal house label, like say '93 - '95. did they go down because of file sharing today or because of the steaming pile of crap they were putting out that no one wanted? darude anyone? this is on top of what i explained above (mismanagement)

and btw.. i am tryin to gather opinions.. so just dont go shooting your mouth off so arrogantly

-arrogant? i'm simply saying that you're trying to research something but you've formed your opinion even before you started. that's not research. that's like fudging the result to prove your hypothesis. you still haven't given me proof, a direct link showing numbers of shared files (which you can get by analyzing the major sharing services) and corresponding record (vinyl) sales. in other words.....mp3 A is shared 100 times, sales of record A drop 50%.....mp3 B shared 50 times, sales of mp3 B drop 25%. where's the direct link? why's there so many small labels thriving? because they don't have execs flying first class and drinking dom perignon. they're well managed.

[dr0ne]

Originally posted by buredf

This was an interesting statement made by a small record label owner

I feel your pain on this subject...believe me I do. Owning a label myself, has been a difficult and arduous task these days. It seems that everyone's favourite label right now is the CD-R label. Funny huh? It's not! I'm a big fan of technology and being able to download MP3s, etc... However, I think this is getting a bit out of hand. I'm not going to fly off the handle here, because I don't have a full solution. I just know that as an artist and label owner, I'm one poor ass mo fo b/c of everyone being able to download my music (which I work very hard on), and not buying it. I get MP3 CDs from friends all the time (thank you Ramon). Do you know what I do when I get these CDs and files? I go out and buy the ones that I dig! The same way I used to buy stuff after getting promo CDs from indie labels (and still do). I'm tired of people telling me about this album and that album they downloaded...meanwhile the artist may be sitting at home, not able to pay their rent or take care of their kids. You think the effect isn't that direct? I'm here to tell you that it is! I have never been one to pretend that I'm rich or living in the lap of luxury. I work my ass off to survive as a musician and DJ. The stealing has to stop. A solution needs to be implemented, and soon. I'm not saying don't download music. But, if you do, pay for it. Go out and find the stuff in a better quality format...vinyl, CD, DVD, whatever. Don't think by snagging the Sasha album or the Underworld album that you're sticking your middle finger at the corporate machine...you're sticking your middle finger up at sasha and underworld, and with your other hand slapping them in the face. it's like eating at a family owned resteraunt, then doing the hog and jog. think about it people.

stryke

rest in peace SR...

the stealing will never stop. the only solution is to change your business model. that's all there is....the major labels are trying to actively enforce copyright themselves, and it may get to the point where they're suing their own customers. they can't win, it's technically impossible for it to stop, hence why they fight it through the legal system. i too buy stuff i download. i just bought a record from a small label in new zealand. i heard the track from an mp3 set i got on the net (which had a tracklist) i paid more for the shipping than for the record. i don't care really i just really wanted that record. i'm not the general public though, who in general are not as passionate about music as i am.

at the same time the internet makes it easy for people to discover new music, it also makes it easy for them to steal it. the end result is you increase sales (more people know about it) and decrease at the same time (more people steal it). the intersection of those who discover it but don't steal is small but its there.

in the electronic business, the producer market will be DJs and the DJ market will be live performances. the comp CD thing is not going away, but yes, it'll be hit the hardest out of anything.

[twiloid]

see what you're saying drOne. then riddle me this, why wasn't everyone bitching when the blank tape came out. yeah the RIAA bitches about everything. but if you analyzed the data, the blank tape didn't cause the downfall of the record industry. even though everyone was copying albums to tape and walking around with their walkman(maybe i'm dating myself on this one). again the record industry, for all its bitching and moaning came out with the cd. that little invention, not only "saved" them, but made them richer than they have ever been. i don't feel bad for them at all. as far as the small label goes, not much you can do. you want to make everyone honest, good luck. tell the record labels and the RIAA to stop selling cd's for $20 for a bunch of crap. cd's with only 9, 10, 11 tracks on it. i had more tracks on tape. and finally my favorite, cd's sold for $20 that have 2 maybe 3 worthy tracks on them. c'mon man. that's why people started to share and burn music. if they thinkn they can bend me over for $20, i'll burn the 2 good tracks and pay them nothing. bottom line is that the smaller labels are unfortunately being screwed not by the downloading public but by the pansy ass big labels. that'll be $50 for coming up with your thesis statement!

[bigpoppanils]

attempting to stop filesharers can be very dangerous PR wise

i mena...look what happened to Metallica...(i do recognzie they were in decline for a while...but that lawsuit sealed their fate)

[dr0ne]

Originally posted by twiloid

see what you're saying drOne. then riddle me this, why wasn't everyone bitching when the blank tape came out. yeah the RIAA bitches about everything. but if you analyzed the data, the blank tape didn't cause the downfall of the record industry. even though everyone was copying albums to tape and walking around with their walkman(maybe i'm dating myself on this one). again the record industry, for all its bitching and moaning came out with the cd. that little invention, not only "saved" them, but made them richer than they have ever been. i don't feel bad for them at all. as far as the small label goes, not much you can do. you want to make everyone honest, good luck. tell the record labels and the RIAA to stop selling cd's for $20 for a bunch of crap. cd's with only 9, 10, 11 tracks on it. i had more tracks on tape. and finally my favorite, cd's sold for $20 that have 2 maybe 3 worthy tracks on them. c'mon man. that's why people started to share and burn music. if they thinkn they can bend me over for $20, i'll burn the 2 good tracks and pay them nothing. bottom line is that the smaller labels are unfortunately being screwed not by the downloading public but by the pansy ass big labels. that'll be $50 for coming up with your thesis statement!

who said the RIAA didn't bitch when the blank tape came out

http://www2.trettel.net:8080/mt/archives/000114.html

they threw a fit, cried like babies and lobbied congress to make blank tapes illegal. they lost.

the reason why they're shitting bricks now is due to the sheer volume of music that can trade millions of hands in minutes. the convenience, speed and availability enabled by all this new technology is orders of magnitude ahead of what the blank tape did....w/ a stereo you made a couple of tapes for your friends. now thousands of people you don't know download dozens of tracks from you 24/7/365 as long as your machine is on. i remember before the internet/sharing/mp3 i used to buy about 15 blank tapes a week and this was the early 90s. i haven't bought a blank tape since '95 i think. (early adopter of the CDR )

the big label bureaucracy is such that an artist can have a gold record and still owe the label money. the label gives an advance for recording and sets up a marketing budget. the artist doesn't see a cent until all this has been paid. a good portion of the artists don't recoup the investment, they make most of their cash by touring and that's when they don't use touring proceeds to pay back the label, this part i'm not too sure about, i think it depends on the contract.

in terms of electronic music, most DJs who make a living off of it do so buy touring and many times also owning a small label, selling records to other DJs. this aspect will not be affected by sharing.

before there were recording devices musicians made a living essentially by touring, the record label phenomenon is hardly a century old. i wouldn't be so quick to assume music will die because of sharing. the industry will just have to learn to adapt.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by twiloid

see what you're saying drOne. then riddle me this, why wasn't everyone bitching when the blank tape came out. yeah the RIAA bitches about everything. but if you analyzed the data, the blank tape didn't cause the downfall of the record industry. even though everyone was copying albums to tape and walking around with their walkman(maybe i'm dating myself on this one). again the record industry, for all its bitching and moaning came out with the cd. that little invention, not only "saved" them, but made them richer than they have ever been. i don't feel bad for them at all. as far as the small label goes, not much you can do. you want to make everyone honest, good luck. tell the record labels and the RIAA to stop selling cd's for $20 for a bunch of crap. cd's with only 9, 10, 11 tracks on it. i had more tracks on tape. and finally my favorite, cd's sold for $20 that have 2 maybe 3 worthy tracks on them. c'mon man. that's why people started to share and burn music. if they thinkn they can bend me over for $20, i'll burn the 2 good tracks and pay them nothing. bottom line is that the smaller labels are unfortunately being screwed not by the downloading public but by the pansy ass big labels. that'll be $50 for coming up with your thesis statement!

Not sure what you're getting here...

But your comparison between the tape and MP3s are completely off track. You failed to notice the significant, and I mean SIGNIFICANT different between tapes and MP3s, besides quality. And that is that MP3s can be replicated, transferred, and burned onto cds EN MASSE. Tape never caught on as a major pirating format because of the time consumption involved in replication, whereas MP3s completely bypasses this problem. You'll notice that one of the major, if not THE, breeding grounds for the likes of napsters were college campuses, where high-speed internet connections made MP3 acquisitoin fast and easy. This couldn't have happened with the tape.

Are those CDs expensive? Yes. But if that was ALL that there was to it, there'd still be a huge market for tapes. Pricey as those discs may be, the digits attached to them aren't the reason why MP3s are as popular as they are today.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

attempting to stop filesharers can be very dangerous PR wise

i mena...look what happened to Metallica...(i do recognzie they were in decline for a while...but that lawsuit sealed their fate)

Not at all. The record labels don't have to worry about their image with the fans, because their avatars are their artists. In mainstream music, nobody is going to care which label the artists come out on. The labels can hide easily behind their artists, because the artists are what the customers see.

Metallica was stupid to "pick up the torch" against pirating, because their fans enjoy their music and whatever images they came with, not their moral stance on business...their fault.

Yet another situation brought on by the image-obssessed American consumer market.

[hawaiiguestlis]

well considering that the music industry has grown faster in the prior years.. even with file sharing i kinda find it hard to believe that its why the music industry sucks.. what you dont think they have file sharing in europe.. hmmm but then again their music does suck..

if you read reports even with the file sharing going on music is still growing at a faster rate every year..

personally i believe it will slow down if you stop file sharing.. its get the music out there.. you like it you buy it...its not bout anything other than money...

[twiloid]

i'm just saying that the simple idea of the blank tape compares to the idea of the mp3. i understand and agree with the volumes involved of one vs the other. but like our host said, when the blank tape came out the RIAA was screaming fire immediately. same basic premiss i think(obviously bigger scale). i really think that, especially in the electronic music medium, the majority of downloads and burns are of live mixes that you can't get in a store. all the dj's i know still buy their vinyl at sattelite records and then burn it to disc if they mix that way. i don't want to say that the industry is not being affected, and especially the smaller labels, but that's the way of the world. it's too late to stop it. they are just trying to play catch up now. for every napster they are able to shut down, there are 10 kazaa's, soulsearch, morpheus, etc. i understand that every disc can't be full of the tracks that you like, but they have to have a better ratio than 2 or 3 for every 11 or 12. i know that there is an exception to every rule, but when was the last time you bought a full length cd and had mor than a few great tracks on it. the rest are garbage. i will fully admit that now that i am burning my mixes it will take a lot to get me down to virgin to pay for a disc. you know what, thats why they(music labels and RIAA) make all the big bucks, they should come up with an idea to get me back to exchanging money for their product. they did it when they mass marketed the cd's, they can think of something else. but until they force my hand...

[jjcbebe]

My opinion is this. Personally I am Cheap I hate to watse money.

I downloaded a few songs from Tiesto a few years ago. Boom, Now I want the CD, because I want the whole cd untouched. I go to see him at clubs.

Whenever I am contemplating seeing a dj I download a few songs and If I like it I def support them by buying their cd and seeing them Live.

If it were not for that., Am I really expected to buy some random cd and hope its good?

With File sharing there are a lot of pro's and con's

but another pro is that through file sharing we in the U.S for example have the means to find a song or cd that can not be bought in the U.S.. as in with Dance/electronica some Cd's come out in the U.K first.

or are just really hard to find/ and therefore we do not really have access to them.

Plus I think the industry is doing fine.. go to your local record store how much cd'cost ..its outrageous. who is going to experiment on those prices? Not me, I'll tell you that.

[velvetrope]

i don't see how labels are losing much money. i know a few djs. yes they file share to hear the new songs. if they like them then they go online and order the vinyl. my best friend dj david quest. spinns nothing but vinyl. and he is a very talented dj. sucks that it is so hard to get a spot in a club in the city cause all directors care about is money and which dj can bring 50 people. i heard many djs in exit suck ass. but there are some djs that are very good. dave spun there 3 times. everyone has loved him spin. only reason he doesn't spin there anymore is cause we can't bring 50 of our friend there everyweek cause we live in new jersey. shouldn't a club give a dj a spot cause he has talent and knows what the crowd wants. but no they put the shitty djs in that bring in 50 people that go lookin for there pills or sell them. and all the dj does is spinn cds that he downloaded from his computer.

Z

[buredf]

everyone brings in some valid points into the argument

but the problem is that there isnt enough people out there who file share and then buy the cd.

see one of the main problems stems from the fact that cds are 20

people feel cheated.. so do i

i hardly go out and buy cds anymore for that.

think about what drone

I'm tired of people telling me about this album and that album they downloaded...meanwhile the artist may be sitting at home, not able to pay their rent or take care of their kids. You think the effect isn't that direct? I'm here to tell you that it is! I have never been one to pretend that I'm rich or living in the lap of luxury. I work my ass off to survive as a musician and DJ. The stealing has to stop. A solution needs to be implemented, and soon. I'm not saying don't download music. But, if you do, pay for it. Go out and find the stuff in a better quality format...vinyl, CD, DVD, whatever. Don't think by snagging the Sasha album or the Underworld album that you're sticking your middle finger at the corporate machine...you're sticking your middle finger up at sasha and underworld, and with your other hand slapping them in the face. it's like eating at a family owned resteraunt, then doing the hog and jog. think about it people.

to me this is the truth about file sharing when u look at the artist.

someone mentioned selling vinyl as making money

see how much real money u an make from selling vinyl?

not much

theres an influx of garbage and the scene is flooded with bad music that is also hurting us