Whats wrong with the industry?? Record labels & artists

[biznation00]

Here’s to those who say they support the scene, blah, blah, blah…

Just over 4 years ago, artists used to anticipate releasing new material with high hopes & record labels took pride in marketing new & up & coming talent. Sometime thereafter, the music industry began its steady decline & many talents were left unrecognized to the masses while leaving some of the biggest names in the industry tied up in a struggle to break even…

What’s The cause of this decline??

Could it be music pirating & Internet file sharing networks??

Legal battles between industry giants versus the highly popular “Napster” (the music consumer’s new best friend) finally ended in a brief but prolonged victory for the music industry. However, since then Internet file sharing networks have found craftier ways to reach out to the public while stayin’ in business & yet continuing to hurt those who work hard to make music.

The reality of this all is that a lot of talent is being short-handed because “we” are short-handing the labels & artists. Ask yourself how much music have I purchased in the last year?? Now ask yourself how much music have I downloaded & burned in the past year?? Why buy when you can rip?? There lies the problem…

WMC 2003 welcomes an array of new releases by some of the world’s biggest & some of our favorite local talents like Murk’s upcoming mixed compilation release “Bangin” & Roland’s “The Lunar Sessions” (Harlequin records). Sure, waiting around till your friend’s friend buys a copy or ripping them off the Internet might be the easiest most cost-effective solution. But how true are you by doin’ so? If you claim to be such a big loyal fan of the underground dance movement, by all means do something to help it...

Quotes below taken from an article on Clubplanet’s home page called “Midem Madness”. Click here for full article http://www.clubplanet.com/content/features/features97.asp

“Global sales of recorded music are in their fourth straight year of decline. In the midst of a sluggish economy and growing concerns over music piracy, the major labels are circling the wagons. Their public enemy number one? You, the music consumer.”

“The beleaguered music industry has so far responded to the challenges of the last few years by laying off employees and cutting B-level and developing acts.”

“Industry spokespeople say that bootlegging is a widespread problem. The CDs you see on pushcarts on the streets, combined with homemade burned CDs, add up 950 million units per year, with an estimated value of $4.3 billion.”

Sure I'm guilty of ripping music off the net- very minimal. I was always a fan of the liner notes & flashy cd covers that made my collection look neat & tidy. I'm proud to say I have more underpants than I do Mp3s. It's also been about a year since my last five-finger internet discount. Since then, I've grown interest & stand against programs like Napster, Audio Galaxy, Soulseek & then some. One thing stands for sure, I'll be purchasing my copies at the record store come their release date. Mainly for our local guys, cuz they deseve our support!!

what are your .02 cents on the matter??

[pod]

I'll admit, sometimes I'm petty and download a Christina Aguilera track because I think she's a horrible singer (but probably a bloody demon in the sack...) and should find another line of work, preferably where her mouth does something other than singing.

The most downloading I'll do is white-labels or downloads of bootleg tracks (unauthorized remixes and such), as well as free downloads from artists sites. Artists that I like, I'll usually check out one or two tracks, and then go and buy the CD. MP3s suck for sound quality, so I'm still a CD buyer for technical reasons. Plus, I do like the liner notes and cover art, especially one forthcoming project from Roland hehe

I have about a gig of MP3s on my system, mostly the aforementioned bootleg remixes, free tracks, and the occasional motivator for Ms. Aguilera to find other work.

The record industry, on the other hand, is fighting a losing battle. They are trying to keep an old distribution method alive in a new environment...unwilling to embrace the new technology, I see the end of the current business model in 5 years.

[cooljunkie]

Biz, your heart's in the right place dude, but relying on people's morals never worked for anyone. If it's there for free it won't be bought - it's just human nature.

As my esteemed colleague pod says, something new is needed. The industry was happy to sit back and watch profits grow in the 90's without delving into the world of online distribution. That short-sightedness is now costing them big.

IMO the volume of downloading will increase as broadband internet access increases its penetration across the globe. The industry needs to find a new way to enhance their product and incentivize purchases.

Someone needs to lock a few very smart people in a room until they come up with some ideas... you up for it Biz?

[ogmiami]

The record industry stats are misleading. Sales are not in decline. Quite the opposite...sales have never been better. What is in decline is their rate of growth. Instead of sales being up 20% per year (I am only using these #'s as an example) they are only up 15% per year. That is slower growth not decline.

Labels have been ripping off artists and consumers since the beginning of the industry. They are greedy, ruthless and agressive. The average artist receives less than 15% of sales. CD's cost pennies to produce. They'll get no tears from me as it relates to mainstream music.

Dance music is a different story. Typically, a dance cd sells less than 100,000 copies instead of the millions that a Hip Hop cd will sell. When you factor in that the market for this music is so small and so computer savvy, it is a real problem and a big part of the reason that so many indy dance labels are going under.

It's not an easy thing to solve. Internet file sharing isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[georgeacasta2]

Interesting topic, here's my 2 cents

[absolutv]

i recently read somewhere that the record industry is trying to get the ISP involved in reporting users that are involved in file sharing. it probably is the only way you can reduce the amount of file sharing..

i know in china the gov't censors information..

the gov't monitors the ISP's which results in the ISP's monitoring the users.. If a user or internet cafe is caught w/ having accessed a banned media content. the isp & user can be fined & shut down temporarily...

i know this is a bit extreme but you never know it could happen here

[pod]

A quote from the early days of the powers-that-be trying to restrict internet content..

"The internet interprets censorship and blocking as damage, and routes around it..."

In other words, once something is out, it can't be stopped. When the deCSS DVD decryptor came out, of course it was banned...but too late, 10 million people worldwide had it. I have it. A record label may shut down a site or threaten a Kazaa user who is distributing Backstreet Boys MP3 files, but that user has already let millions of others download it.

Nick is right though, it's human nature to take something for free if it's available. Believe me, if I knew I could be in the clear, I'd have that S2 I've always wanted, along with several new PCs and an Aston Martin to boot. The main reason I don't go and download MP3s is taste and respect for the artists I do like. Much of what is available for download is utter crap, just pop music encoded and put on a server so some kid can get a good ratio on a site or network. Many of the artists I listen to on a regular basis these days are friends of mine. Stryke, Oscar, Roland, etc...I know all of them and would feel terrible cheating them out of their income. It's like when I get pissed when I see flyers with my photos on them, and the designer failed to notify me or credit me. As for the artists I don't know personally but still enjoy, I still go out and buy the CD. The other day I picked up that Sven Väth/Richie Hawtin CD. I enjoyed it. Plus, like I said before, MP3s sound like utter crap most of the time.

I think fair use provisions should apply to any recording you buy. I reserve the right to make MP3s out of stuff I already own, for my portable MP3 player, car stereo, or if I was a DJ, my Final Scratch rig. Just like technically you're allowed to make one copy of software for backup purposes. I don't want to deal with the music industry's half-assed pay-per-play and "licensing" schemes...I should be able to buy a copy of the track outright, and that's the end of it...already, there's Windows Media files which expire and lock after 30 days...but there you go again, there's a decryptor for that out. The expiring media is a good vehicle for previews and the like, but you should be able to pay a one-time fee to unlock the media for good, not 'rent' it.

[Guest saleen351]

LETS SEE, I HEARD DARK BEAT IN MARCH, IT GOT RELEASED IN OCT OR DEC:confused: NOT EVEN ON OGS CD, BUT ON LOUIE DEVITOS CD.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME, THERES THE PROBLEM... WHY BUY THE NEW MIXES OF DARK BEAT WHEN THE TRACK RAN ITS COURSE AND IS DONE? FINE IF THEY GO THE COMMERCIAL ROUTE BUT COME ON THE CLUB KIDS NEED OUR BEATS SOONER, NOT MONTHS LATER WHEN TRACKS ARE PLAYED..

STEP 1 IS TO BLAME DJS AND PRODUCERS FOR THEIR INCOMPETENCE WHEN IT COMES TO LEAKS... THEY CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT, THAT YOU CAN'T SEND PROMOS OUT ANYMORE. ONLY A SMALL GROUP OF DJS SHOULD GET TRACKS...

STEP 2. DJS AND PRODUCERS HAVE TO ADMIT TO US, THAT THEY STEAL AND MAKE TONS OF MONEY OFF TRACKS FROM OTHER ARTISTS, SAME THING THE BEASTILY BOYS DID IN THE 80'S. WE STEAL, AND DJS AND PRODUCERS STEAL AS WELL...

STEP 3. IS THE PRICE, ITS WAY OUT OF WACK.... TOO EXPENSIVE.

STEP 4. IS TO GET DJ SALARIES DOWN SO PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO COME OUT TO A CLUB TO SEE THEM SPIN. OPEN THEIR MINDS AND MAYBE YOU'LL GET SOME NEW GENERATION CLUB MUSIC LOVERS.

STEP 5. IS TO ONLY PUT OUT GUIDO ANTHEMS..

STEP 6. BLAME TRANCE AND TRANCE FANS FOR EVERYTHING...

[pod]

No one's going to voluntarily take a salary cut.

and who would determine these "select" DJs...hell, Oscar could give Louie Devito a copy of his next track, and Louie could decide to encode it, and someone gets into his system, and boom it's out. Narrowing the promo pool isn't going to do it. Dark Beat was spread because 1 person was careless or inconsiderate. Then 10 million people copied and downloaded it.

DJs make money off of remixes and whatnot, but 90 percent of the time it's licensed. The Billie Jean remix is licensed and fully authorized, for example. And as for the bootlegs, it's not like the RIAA has agents in every club writing down tracklistings and then shuffling through record bags to see if it's a legit remix.

A track costs money to produce. All that studio hardware doesn't grow from the ground. 10 bucks for a piece of vinyl with 4 or 5 tracks on it isn't bad. It's the albums that are pricey...the CD costs pennies to make, the record label gets a huge cut, as well as the distributor, then the artist gets 10 percent if he's lucky.

Last time I checked, most people on this board don't pay cover, and clubs mainly make their money off of drinks these days. DJ salaries are high because their craft is in demand.

As for putting out guido anthems, that's subjective.

I'll blame trance for one thing, and that's getting hit on the head with a glowstick too many times.

[detbasshead]

Myself personaly I download tracks here and there till I get the recording(CDs and vynal sound a hell of a lot better then mp3), I destroy my mp3 accountant every couple of months keeping rips from live broadcasts and stuff not available on mass market since the record company stopped the distribution and manufactoring.

Another thing is that record companies rip off their artist where the only money is in publishing rights, touring, and merchandise. I read/heard somwhere(wish I could remember the source) that if an artist sells a million copies they make 50,000 and if they sell 100,000 they break even.(Numbers not exact mental lag but the numbers are something absurd like that). I know Offspring wanted to release their latest album for free as an mp3 off their site but the record company would not allow(shows who makes the green on that deal).

The biggest problem is how music is distributed on CDs and that ones computer can burn CDs and rip the tracks off of them. If another format was a popular distribution method people could not easily transfer their CD collection to the computer there would not be the internet libraries. Personally as the listening format changes to the removable drive format of the PC/MAC of the home machine pirating will be alot harder. If SACD replaces the CD and the computers go to blue laser technology the home audio and computer mediums could not be exchangable.

Also some good artists fall out of favor with their labels and losing marketing budget and do not receive airplay. If people are not informed of the artists presence and their material and when it comes out consumers will be clueless to know that it can be purchased.

Also there are companies that make software that facilitates pirating such as 3-2-1 and their software program that allows users to rip movies right off the DVD(btw that is already making its way into the supreme court).

In the end the mp3(or the future mpeg 4) is phase that can be solved with watermarking on the SACDs or DVD-As and by having a format different for removable Data on the computer to that is being used for music. Also make the equpment to interface these too expensive as shit to keep it out of the general publics hands. If not the problem will escalate.

Record companies are a mess in more ways then one and will differently need to change their business structure and how they operate. Also future artists can help by negotiating their contracts better and shop around too.

Thats my opinion, but think technology can help fixed the pirating as it has facilitated it.

:hat2:

DBH

[sobeton]

After five years of working behind the scenes, in the music business. as a retail manager, buyer, and finally as salesperson for Alliance Entertainment, one of the largest music wholesalers in the world.., I can say without hesitation, no one is blame for the decline in pre recorded music sales, then the record labels themselves., and the Recording Industry Association of America ( RIAA). Sure it’s easy to blame the music sharing sites, they are partially to blame. However the bulk of the blame, rest on the shoulders of the record labels, and the RIAA. Instead of trying to come up with, an alternative solution for music file sharing .the industry decided to sit back and battle it out with Napster. Every alternative Napster offered the industry, was shot down. Why because the music industry is driven by greed. How can you justify selling a CD in a store for $15.99 (on avg); when it is costing less then $3.00 to record, package, and promote the CD. Some would think it is the retailers jacking up the price, believe me they are not. Retailers if they are lucky get a new release for $10.99,so their profit after overhead; in some cases can be less then $2.00.

Who suffers in the end the artist and the consumer. The days of developing an artist over a few years are over.. If you don’t make it on the first album, the likelihood of another album is unlikely. The trend now is smaller labels going down, or simply being bought out by the big boys.

Dance music is a whole different entity, dance music has often been distributed by smaller labels Nervous Records, Tribal America, etc. often the smaller labels depended on there affiliation, with the major labels for broad distribution. which is a key factor in sales. This marriage has changed as the major labels, do not want to take the time or the effort, to really promote and protect the interest of dance music artist. promoting Dance Music a time consuming process, and the end result is not always profitable. Think about the last dance album to sell a million copies. Now take an artist like Enimen for example, who can sell 6 million copies of his album the first week it is out. so where do you think the labels, are going to focus the $$$ on. That’s right Enimen. !! Have you seen many copies of the Enimen Album, on music sharing files ?? the answer is no. proof the industry has the where with all, to control file sharing; if they really want to… Again it is about greed… drop the CD prices down, cut the 100 million dollar contracts, and take sometime to develop artist. The music industry will NEVER, be able to beat the music sharing sites… so why not try to actively compete with them, it is not impossible.

It just takes a little vision.. from a consumer point of view, we all need to understand ripping music is STEALING plain and simple. Support the artist, and hopefully the greedy record labels will help consumers, in making the buying of CD’s truly affordable for all.

Just my two pennies…

[funketeer]

Music is bad, the labels suck and record sales are on an all-time low...everything else is fine...I guess, right?

[biznation00]

The original post applies mainly to underground dance music labels & artists. Mainstream (Hip Hop, Pop, Rock) seem to be doin' fine & many of them are still makin' millions. I have very lil' pitty for the Mainstream record labels...

I wouldn't bank on Underground dance music sales being on the up-swing. Even considering its growing popularity in the states...

Maybe we'll hear from some artists who have 1st hand experiences on the matter...

[sobeton]

The discussion of underground dance music, cannot negate the importance of mainstream record labels. Without the deep distribution channels and promotional dollars the major mainstream labels provide, underground music will not survive. Example: Three Major Dance Labels Star 69*Tommy Boy* Strictly Rhythm distributed by Alternative Distribution Alliance, which is owned by Warner Bros Music .which we all know is part AOL Time Warner. I would not be surprised to see Global Underground, and other labels follow this same pattern. One the biggest selling DJ's of all time, Paul Oakenfold is part of Sire/Mute Records, which is also part of Warner Bros Muisc. Owing you own record label, be it underground, or otherwise is a very risky business right now.

[spacecadet888]

Biz..a few points..

First off..im pretty sure napster was originated for those who felt that the music industry was too inflated with their prices and felt that the money was being taken away from the consumer without giving them their fair share of satisfaction....artists and record labels would come out with weak and un-original cd's and expect more than the usual price for them...

less than five years ago, i can remember how music was at the MOST 16.99...and that was for double cd's...now they slap "import" stickers on most merchandise..thinking that we will pay upwards of 20-25.00's for cd's that have different covers and a remix or two...what is the justice in that?

It has gotten to the point where in order to get a bigger piece of the pie, artists such as Puff Daddy, Ja Rule, Jay-Z, and other mainstream artists have resorted to opening record labels to broaden the 0's on their paycheck and keep their money coming steady.

Biz...however you do have to keep in mind that sometimes the record label provides...certain demands...artists ask for when they do promotional concerts and tours...such as cars, certain foods, RV's, private jets...you name it...the record labels get alot of the check...so think of it this way...the artists get paid pretty well considering that they get a big check AFTER all of that money is spent on their demands...

just comida por su thought (a lil spanglish never hurt nobody )

Carlos

PS- Gimme a call when u get this..peace

[demo909]

what the industry needs to do is cut out the medium. companies that produce blank recording devices must put out a product that is not compatable for downloading off the internet....(don't ask me the technical way to do this cause i don't know how it's done, but i'm sure there is a way.......this is just a suggestion).

And as much as it kills me to say this...Saleen does have a valid point....DJ's and producers are directly respondsible for the way there track is handled before it is picked up or signed by a label. Everyone wants to put their track out these days and no one thinks that pass'n it on to a few friends before it's signed or officially released is a big deal. The fact is that today it could be detramental. And as most of you seem to agree, you can't trust peoples morals and rely on them to always do the right thing. We are all guilty of stealing something....if it's not downloading music then it's something else.....how many of you have recorded your favorite Tv show on VHS and let a friend borrow it......remember that is stealing too. (must have expressed written conscent)

i think that this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to piracy. soon as the DVD burners progress and broadband connections increase you'll see more people swap'n full length movies online and whatever else becomes applicable.......but as i said in the beginning wouldn't it make sense to just cut out the medium?.......do something with these blank CD's, DVD's Minidisc's......whatever it is that people record with.....change the way that they read the data....make it impossible for them to read from a hard drive or something.....if you could do that you could put a big dent in piracy.....most people would rather listen to all their new aquisitions in the car or on a stereo....if people can't transfer data from their computers, then they will decrease the amount they download.....like i said it wouldn't stop the piracy, but it would make a positive dent in it.

by the way don't bash me on this.....it just my opinion and thats what this board is for right???

later everyone

[b-side]

Originally posted by biznation00

The original post applies mainly to underground dance music labels & artists. Mainstream (Hip Hop, Pop, Rock) seem to be doin' fine & many of them are still makin' millions. I have very lil' pitty for the Mainstream record labels...

I wouldn't bank on Underground dance music sales being on the up-swing. Even considering its growing popularity in the states...

Maybe we'll hear from some artists who have 1st hand experiences on the matter...

The Industry Makes Me

Check the past issue of WIRED mag.... Every genre is suffering from a total decline in sales.... Even the Pres. of Billboard states that the industry as it is today, has lest than 5 years left.

And from my previous experience in dealing with labels vs. independent dist., I still see a dim future for the underground dance scene...

The problem is quite simple GREED

The labels have been WAY too greedy over the past 20 years.. and now they are in a "depression session". Come on !!! $18-20 Bucks for a $5 dollar disc (all royalties, and packaging included in that $5, too)...

Plus the "Major Labels" did not adapt to Or prepare for the future... so now they try to fight technology.... and then everyone looses.. especially the end consumer & artists...

[sobeton]

Originally posted by b-side

The Industry Makes Me

Check the past issue of WIRED mag.... Every genre is suffering from a total decline in sales.... Even the Pres. of Billboard states that the industry as it is today, has lest than 5 years left.

And from my previous experience in dealing with labels vs. independent dist., I still see a dim future for the underground dance scene...

The problem is quite simple GREED

The labels have been WAY too greedy over the past 20 years.. and now they are in a "depression session". Come on !!! $18-20 Bucks for a $5 dollar disc (all royalties, and packaging included in that $5, too)...

Plus the "Major Labels" did not adapt to Or prepare for the future... so now they try to fight technology.... and then everyone looses.. especially the end consumer & artists...

this is what I have been saying all along.its all about GREED!

contrary to popular opinion .DJ's and producers are not totally responsible ,for the way there track is handled before it is picked up or signed by a label.there have been many instances where a track has been hickjacked right under the artist nose,just ask Tiesto, Satoshi Tomie, etc.imagine the impact of spending months producing a track,to have some pompous arse steal it,and put it all over the net.

[macboy]

I'd love to reply, but I'm too busy downloading right now. :laugh:

Seriously, as far as dance music is concerned, here's my problem. Back in '94, when I really began listening to UK dance music, the problem I had was getting the music here in the US. It took almost a year after a song or album's european release to finally becaome available for purchase in the US. By then, to use Saleen's reasoning, the music was already played out and I wasn't interested anymore. Even today, it still takes a while for the new songs to get released here after they become available in Europe. Sure, the compilations arrive more quickly now, but try getting singles. That's what I'm interested in. There are so many more compilations coming out now than 5 years ago that you know most are shit. I'd rather take singles and make my own mix.

Ever go to HMV in London? The CD singles area is huge! Most of them don't make it to the US. If they do, they are extremely difficult to find. Furthermore, as an import, they'll be expensive. I don't want to wait to hear a song I heard in a club just because I can't find it in the stores here. That's why I download those songs from the net. That, and the Radio One Essential Mixes.

As far as US producers, I do my best to go out and purchase the music that's available in stores. I bought that stupid devito CD just for dark beat. I know CDs are expensive here but people need to get paid for their work. I don't like the cost, but that will never be my motivation for downloading.

Bottom line, I try not to download things I know are readily available for purchase. But, I think that if it's unavailable or too tough for me to locate, I won't hesitate to download it. Make this music as easy to come by as, say Britney, and i'll pay.

As far as solutions, I have none. All i can say is that, unfortunately, the industry needs to adapt to changing technology as quickly as possible. I honestly can't believe that we're even using CDs anymore.

[jasonmarc]

If you cant beat em......join em.......unfortunate to say none the least....

[Guest saleen351]

just for you non technical guys know, there is zero way to stop people from ripping cds. The thing is even if the cd doesn't play in your cd rom in your computer, all you gotta do is play it in a device and stream it to your sound card. Its 100% impossible to stop. Like playing it in a 15 year old discman and hooking up the line out to your sound card and bam, you got a mp3....

Then you have radio rips and the lists goes on and on.

When tsettos lost his job at the label SR, there was mad backlash on vip, many saying we don't support, so i taught them all a lesson. After every track post, i posted:

"sounds like a great track, where can i buy the cd of it?"

I COULD NOT BUY ONE CD! I DON'T HAVE DECKS NOR PLAN ON BUYING THEM.

GAME

SET

MATCH...........

[sobeton]

On the technology tip you have, Extensible Rights Markup Language, and other assorted technologies being developed by companies such as Sony( who happens to be in the music business as well), Microsoft, etc. these technologies may not wipe out ripping,and other forms of theft ,but they will certainly make it more difficult. don't under estimate technology..

the game is not over yet...

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by sobeton

On the technology tip you have, Extensible Rights Markup Language, and other assorted technologies being developed by companies such as Sony( who happens to be in the music business as well), Microsoft, etc. these technologies may not wipe out ripping,and other forms of theft ,but they will certainly make it more difficult. don't under estimate technology..

the game is not over yet...

wrong

sony's million dollar security was taken down by a 2 dollar black marker.

Fact is you would have to have all the people in the world to throw their current cd players out the door. The firmware is the same, and we all know one company would still produce cd players without the protection, plus all the old ones would not work, and your not gonna get people to buy new cd players and tell them to throw the old ones out.

the first cd player came out in 1982. Nothing has changed.

You can't stop radio rips.

Plus it only takes one dude to rip a track and its out there forever.

It's really simple, when price falls and quality increases to where i'm willing to buy instead of download, then the industry will do well.

[pod]

Hell, the DVD encryption was defeated by a 16 year old in Norway. What one company can code, another company or person can break.

Strangely enough, the DVD encryption wasn't broken so the kid could copy DVDs, he did it so he could watch movies on his Linux-running PC...the DVD CCA didn't "license" any operating systems outside of Windows and CrapOS to play DVDs, so the kid wrote his own drivers, which by design decrypt the DVD.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by saleen351

wrong

sony's million dollar security was taken down by a 2 dollar black marker.

Fact is you would have to have all the people in the world to throw their current cd players out the door. The firmware is the same, and we all know one company would still produce cd players without the protection, plus all the old ones would not work, and your not gonna get people to buy new cd players and tell them to throw the old ones out.

the first cd player came out in 1982. Nothing has changed.

You can't stop radio rips.

Plus it only takes one dude to rip a track and its out there forever.

It's really simple, when price falls and quality increases to where i'm willing to buy instead of download, then the industry will do well.

ummmm! exactly what was wrong in what I stated ? did you CAREFULLY read what I wrote ?? :confused:point of reference: Microsoft’s MYSQL was infected this weekend..ALL technology is vulnerable, tis the nature of technology in general. there is technology being developed everyday. many technologies the Layperson, cannot even conceive of. think for a moment who manufactures dvd ,cd players and the like. then look at who manufactures the CD 's, people burn there stolen music onto. Technology controls Technology.. ponder that for a moment, and you will understand the big picture. the key is CONTAINING the environment, not trying to wipe it out( which I believe I eluded to before:D ); because history has proven that to be futile. the games not over, it's just beginning to get very interesting..