vipnerd Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Received this e-mail ... it does bother me ... I believe one of the reasons why we live in South Florida is because of its clubbing alternatives ... Show some love if you can ... or at least be informed ... (the following is the e-mail I received from the Crobar peepz ...)===================================Join us at the Miami Beach City Counsel Meeting Wednesday, April 30 at 4:30pm at City Hall.1700 Convention Center DriveMiami Beach, FL 33139 South Beach night life is being threatened by a small special interest group composed of high-end condominium owners represented by high priced attorneys. This small group is looking to eliminate night life as we all know it. They are continuing to put pressure on the City Counsel to change many of the laws that govern nightclubs, restaurants and hotels and bring in hundreds of thousands of tourists to this market every year. The hospitality industry generated over $900 million in revenue last year alone. As you all know, the hospitality industry in South Beach supports over 5,000 people and their families and is one of the main reasons that people continue to visit South Beach.If you care about the Hospitality and Tourist Industry in South Beach, we need your help! Please show your support at the Miami Beach City Counsel Meeting on Wednesday at 4:30 at City Hall. We need to represent and support our hospitality industry to keep it alive. Your presence will show our voting strength.Once again, please join us at the Miami Beach City Counsel Meeting Wednesday, April 30 at 4:30pm at City Hall.========================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move....what is going on is, if you serve food and then turn into a club, then 2am closing....i like it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatfriek Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by saleen351 good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move....what is going on is, if you serve food and then turn into a club, then 2am closing....i like it.... huh:confused: where does it say somthing about food???either way i wont be able to attend, but this stirs me up as does the rave act!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by saleen351 good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move....what is going on is, if you serve food and then turn into a club, then 2am closing....i like it.... how would this provide "better" clubs on sobe ? if you put severe restrictions on nightclubs, restaurants and hotels . then you are in effect limiting the income potential of those establishments. it is these establishments which drive the miami beach economy. high-end condominium owners pay there mortgage payments and ridiculous maintenance fees , and put little if anything back into the sobe economy. further it is the tourist and visitors to miami beach, that drive the economy not the residents. if miami beach decided to start taxing condominium owners, to make up for the income they will be losing if establishments leave sobe. I'm sure the condominium owners would be singing a new tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyman1966 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by saleen351 good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move....what is going on is, if you serve food and then turn into a club, then 2am closing....i like it.... No way Mr. "I studied Economics". I have to disagree with you. This sucks. It eliminates competition. Anyone who is a fan of Adam Smith, Free Economics, and Free Trade would not support this. I’ll bet fucken Democrats are behind this bullshit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatfriek Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by sobeton how would this provide "better" clubs on sobe ? high-end condominium owners pay there mortgage payments and ridiculous maintenance fees , and put little if anything back into the sobe economyfurther it is the tourist and visitort to miami beach, that drive the economy not the residents . if miami beach decided to start taxing condominium owners, to make up for the income they will be losing if establishments leave sobe. I'm sure the condominium owners would be singing a new tune. and this is coming from a person who LIVES ON THE BEACH!!!!too bad i cant show this wednesday!!!! Sobe, make sure u and all your neighbors go and support dude!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted April 29 Author Report Share Posted April 29 I would like to see a 7 am liquor license ... not a 2 am BS ... Noise complaints are a different story ... could be understood ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogmiami Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Listen up CPers...This is an important issue.I was at the meeting last week when all this was put on the table and it is really serious stuff. Saleen is wrong, once again, when he says "good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move...." This is not about noise or anything like that. This is about the growing perception among the wealthy residents of Miami Beach that the industry is no longer necessary to support the economy and that the Beach would be better off without it.Some of the legislation they are trying to pass:No new clubs on the Beach...even in clubs that close.Earlier closing time for Miami Beach clubs...2AM is the proposal as of now.Restaurants can only be open til 2AMNo flyersI think it's pretty easy to see the direction they are going. At the last meeting I had with the city council, Councliman Saul Gross told me face to face that they don't care about the clubs. He said that they only care about keeping their jobs and that to do that they had to do what the residents who vote want...get rid of the clubs. He admitted that these were mostly older people who live North of 30th Street and are not even in touch with "South Beach" but have been convinced by the PR machine that the lawyers for a few have hired that there is a problem.Here's the thing...only about nine thousand people vote in the local elections in Miami Beach. A few hundred votes can swing an election the other way. What we want to do is show them that we have votes in support of the club industry. If we can bring 1000 heads with us to the next meeting, we will show that there is support for the industry and they will have to think long and hard before trying to hurt it.This is the American system at its best. Please show up and support.Dade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digital7 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 oh my, this really puts a damper on the beach. the way it looks, they're planning on eliminating everything as a whole... pretty much the same thing they did up in Orlando a few years back. this is not a good thing at all and support is defenitely needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koky Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by digital7 oh my, this really puts a damper on the beach. the way it looks, they're planning on eliminating everything as a whole... pretty much the same thing they did up in Orlando a few years back. this is not a good thing at all and support is defenitely needed. AGREED !! P.S. whats up with one of those kool new flip phones u got over at the booth bro ? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted April 29 Author Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by ogmiami Listen up CPers...This is an important issue.I was at the meeting last week when all this was put on the table and it is really serious stuff. Saleen is wrong, once again, when he says "good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move...." This is not about noise or anything like that. This is about the growing perception among the wealthy residents of Miami Beach that the industry is no longer necessary to support the economy and that the Beach would be better off without it.Some of the legislation they are trying to pass:No new clubs on the Beach...even in clubs that close.Earlier closing time for Miami Beach clubs...2AM is the proposal as of now.Restaurants can only be open til 2AMNo flyersI think it's pretty easy to see the direction they are going. At the last meeting I had with the city council, Councliman Saul Gross told me face to face that they don't care about the clubs. He said that they only care about keeping their jobs and that to do that they had to do what the residents who vote want...get rid of the clubs. He admitted that these were mostly older people who live North of 30th Street and are not even in touch with "South Beach" but have been convinced by the PR machine that the lawyers for a few have hired that there is a problem.Here's the thing...only about nine thousand people vote in the local elections in Miami Beach. A few hundred votes can swing an election the other way. What we want to do is show them that we have votes in support of the club industry. If we can bring 1000 heads with us to the next meeting, we will show that there is support for the industry and they will have to think long and hard before trying to hurt it.This is the American system at its best. Please show up and support.Dade Thanx for your explanation Dade ...It is something that certainly needs to be taken seriously ... What brought those wealthy condominiums in the first place was the quality of life on the beach ... and nightlife was one of the key factors ... I think this issues are being poorly exposed to the residents of South Beach ... who live at the beach because of its night life ... and life syle ... they might not be in a club every weekend as before ... (this has to do with the economy ... not with lack of interest) ... if not why pay Sobe rents? ... to go to the beach? ... nope ... they could live anywhere else on the east or west coast for that ... it is to have one of the best nite lifes in the country ... steps away ...Only when authorities touch your pockets or your interests is when people react ... I guess this is one of those cases ... but for something as important as you explain ... I think there has been little or poor exposure ...In the meantime ... older residents have been informed ... and they do tend to be active ... what else do they have to do ...As flyers are printed for events ... why don't clubs hand flyers explaining this issue/issues in their premises as their patrons leave? ... I can't believe how disinformed we could be ...I'll be there tomorrow ...Peace ... Vip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildmiami Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 This is serious shit. I would definitely have shown up to this meeting on Wed. but I have a final. Is there anything else I can do to show my support. If someone does go to this get me the politicians name and address and I'll send him a letter letting him know how much I spend when I go to the beach. I rarely go to the beach and not spend at least $100 on the weekend and I go often.Let's see if we can get CP to "make a difference." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digital7 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by koky AGREED !! P.S. whats up with one of those kool new flip phones u got over at the booth bro ? :D I know you like them .. pass by on Wednesday slut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by ogmiami Listen up CPers...This is an important issue.I was at the meeting last week when all this was put on the table and it is really serious stuff. Saleen is wrong, once again, when he says "good bye opium and hello better clubs on the beach.. its a good move...." This is not about noise or anything like that. This is about the growing perception among the wealthy residents of Miami Beach that the industry is no longer necessary to support the economy and that the Beach would be better off without it.Some of the legislation they are trying to pass:No new clubs on the Beach...even in clubs that close.Earlier closing time for Miami Beach clubs...2AM is the proposal as of now.Restaurants can only be open til 2AMNo flyersI think it's pretty easy to see the direction they are going. At the last meeting I had with the city council, Councliman Saul Gross told me face to face that they don't care about the clubs. He said that they only care about keeping their jobs and that to do that they had to do what the residents who vote want...get rid of the clubs. He admitted that these were mostly older people who live North of 30th Street and are not even in touch with "South Beach" but have been convinced by the PR machine that the lawyers for a few have hired that there is a problem.Here's the thing...only about nine thousand people vote in the local elections in Miami Beach. A few hundred votes can swing an election the other way. What we want to do is show them that we have votes in support of the club industry. If we can bring 1000 heads with us to the next meeting, we will show that there is support for the industry and they will have to think long and hard before trying to hurt it.This is the American system at its best. Please show up and support.Dade it's unfortunate that the powers that be, don’t not comprehend what drives the sobe economy. or perhaps they do comprehend and are more concerned with their political arses.. I would think something as serious, as this would be in the form of a Proposition; which residents could vote on. you needn’t look any further, then the half full condominiums, for rent signs, and incomplete construction, which permeates the beach. to realize that the beach needs help. thus they should be welcoming businesses with open arms, and not catering to a few select residents. you have multitudes of sobe residents, moving to belle meade, and other areas of downtown. it will not be long before the nightclubs, restaurants, and hotels follow suit.leaving miami beach to become, the ghost town it was awhile back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by digital7 I know you like them .. pass by on Wednesday slut ummmmm ! is this the same phone we spoke about ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norahmiami Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Ironic - how the clubbing 'expert' hasnt responded to the comments and points made regarding his eloquent comments on how closing Opium is a "good move"......I hope this doesnt happen............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funketeer Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by ogmiami Some of the legislation they are trying to pass:No new clubs on the Beach...even in clubs that close.Earlier closing time for Miami Beach clubs...2AM is the proposal as of now.Restaurants can only be open til 2AMNo flyersI think it's pretty easy to see the direction they are going. Wow...it's like a flashback to the time right after Hurricane andrew when the city decided to open the beach for business and attract youth by refusing to rent apartments to the elderly...it ended and era...it did.If they say they're going to do something...trust that it will be done.It's a slow death to the beach as we know it...instead of actually kicking the night-life business out of town...they make so that it's a hassle and less profitable...to the point that investors are no longer interested and end up leaving...I wish there was a more effective way to stop this than showing up to a town hall meeting...I mean...can we just raise our voices about this subject in a more effective way???Anyone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 the invisible hand doesn't matter(micro picture). And for you latin HS drop outs, don't bother understanding it.. Its above your Hialeah education....This isn't just a micro market, you have to look at the macro market. Lets look at NJ/NYC, how does NJ keep its clubbers in NJ? Its not easy, but NYC makes it so expensive and hard to get into the city and park and all that bs that the market is in equlibrium but after 9-11, more and more people stay in NJ. Hence nyc sucks..But Miami and sobe are vastely different than NYC/NJ, its just 2 miles and its free and parking is not an issue and all the clubs are on the same street. So how does sobe exspect to compete? Once downtown miami gets cranking up, sobe would die no matter what unless they leveled the playing field. How do they do that? 24 hours... Or at least 7am, but even so, we all know there isn't one club that can pack them in till 7am... NOT ONE. 4am, everyone leaves the club and heads either home, or to space, and hopefully to a new club...Now lets get the other economic issue raised on here.People will loose their jobs? First off thats not true. The invisible hand tells us if you take the supply away, demand should stay the same, and prices rise. Thus, the vacum it creates in the short run means more venues in miami, the alternative to sobe. Thus the short term lose in revenue and jobs is filled by new clubs and venues, and the market will be back at qs=qd where p = pe... As long as Miami is fair with its barriers to entry, then we the clubber win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is how the economy works.. sobetone, your response was non sense. Its called a democracy, and the majority wins... Thus why cities such as lauderdale did the right move, and have entertainment districts to protect the clubbers... Word is miami is doing the same in esance.. The problem is, and i see the pt of the residents is that you don't need the clubs.. They are right, all those clus will move to miami if miami lets them have free rein like space. Though space is hammpered by the city, just not like sobe... If miami lets the clubs move in and create a monster entertainment area then no matter what sobe can't win. How sick would it be we let the thugs have their city, and we take over miami and kick out all that latin trash..... When anyone gets a degree in qualitative economics, then respond... Adam Smith has been right for 200 years... And continues to be right now...bravo, a new scene will be born just 3 miles away.... Its closer to my house, better parking etc.... Maybe the guys at nocturnal and the beach aren't so dumb, and maybe just maybe the offical saleen clubbing outlook theory might just be right, that miami will blow up.. let it go sobe is for thugs with credit caddys, and dirty latins with no respect for america..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Whatever happens economically, I think we should fight this proposal. Sure, the clubs could all move downtown, but I don't want this measure to pass, because then where will they stop?I'm a big fan of downtown too, I'd love to see 11th Street converted into a competitor for Washington Ave. Space and now Space 34 have led the way...a little variety would be nice though...maybe some lounges and such...the bowling alley's gonna be cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted April 29 Author Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by saleen351 the invisible hand doesn't matter(micro picture). And for you latin HS drop outs, don't bother understanding it.. Its above your Hialeah education....This isn't just a micro market, you have to look at the macro market. Lets look at NJ/NYC, how does NJ keep its clubbers in NJ? Its not easy, but NYC makes it so expensive and hard to get into the city and park and all that bs that the market is in equlibrium but after 9-11, more and more people stay in NJ. Hence nyc sucks..But Miami and sobe are vastely different than NYC/NJ, its just 2 miles and its free and parking is not an issue and all the clubs are on the same street. So how does sobe exspect to compete? Once downtown miami gets cranking up, sobe would die no matter what unless they leveled the playing field. How do they do that? 24 hours... Or at least 7am, but even so, we all know there isn't one club that can pack them in till 7am... NOT ONE. 4am, everyone leaves the club and heads either home, or to space, and hopefully to a new club...Now lets get the other economic issue raised on here.People will loose their jobs? First off thats not true. The invisible hand tells us if you take the supply away, demand should stay the same, and prices rise. Thus, the vacum it creates in the short run means more venues in miami, the alternative to sobe. Thus the short term lose in revenue and jobs is filled by new clubs and venues, and the market will be back at qs=qd where p = pe... As long as Miami is fair with its barriers to entry, then we the clubber win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is how the economy works.. sobetone, your response was non sense. Its called a democracy, and the majority wins... Thus why cities such as lauderdale did the right move, and have entertainment districts to protect the clubbers... Word is miami is doing the same in esance.. The problem is, and i see the pt of the residents is that you don't need the clubs.. They are right, all those clus will move to miami if miami lets them have free rein like space. Though space is hammpered by the city, just not like sobe... If miami lets the clubs move in and create a monster entertainment area then no matter what sobe can't win. How sick would it be we let the thugs have their city, and we take over miami and kick out all that latin trash..... When anyone gets a degree in qualitative economics, then respond... Adam Smith has been right for 200 years... And continues to be right now...bravo, a new scene will be born just 3 miles away.... Its closer to my house, better parking etc.... Maybe the guys at nocturnal and the beach aren't so dumb, and maybe just maybe the offical saleen clubbing outlook theory might just be right, that miami will blow up.. let it go sobe is for thugs with credit caddys, and dirty latins with no respect for america..... then again ... every economist's protection for wrong analysis (exogenous variable) comes into effect ...and those variables are: - this new legislation- a 7 am licenseyour analysis is based on if ... this new legislation passes ...and this thread is about trying to stop it ... clubs in sobe are in danger because of an exogenous variable ... now ... I hope people like Buster at A3 would say something ... DVOX ... even Ocean Drive mag ... because Sobe ... like it or not ... is about entertainment ...People approached by this "condominium interest" live north of Maze, Nerve and Rain ... but are the same people movilized in other instances to jeopadize Sobe's nite spots ...No macro has any validity if conditions are not stable ... no investment can be analyzed without clear rules ... that is where politics take a stand in the economic theory ...to put it simply ... support the efforts of the entertainment industry in Sobe ... and nothing will change ... movilize ... and I mean really movilize to have a 7 am liquor license ... and your forecast reverses ... Sobe would enjoy a well desired re-birth and downtown would be dead ... with the exception being Space 34 ... because they have the most seeked after comodity ... TOP FLIGHT DJS ... As much as I am grateful for having a club like Space ... I love Sobe ... and Sobe is open 7 days a week ...Peace ... Vip:hat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 vip you are wrong. 7 am won't help the clubs. Hell they can't get people in them at 1am... Space is not just packed becasuse of its 24hour licenese. They kinda know what the fuck they are doing... If space closed at 8am, it woudl still do fine.. if it closed at 5am and their were no after hours, it will still do fine...7am doesn't and won't help the clubs.. its industry, you people are the spin zone. truth is clubbing is ovaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and nothing and i mean unless they allow drugs like ibiza to be legal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Regardless, I don't want to see this happen. If the beach does it, other communities might get uppity and try to do the same thing.It's why I loathe our current government. I believe that less government is good government.I'll be there tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by pod Regardless, I don't want to see this happen. If the beach does it, other communities might get uppity and try to do the same thing.It's why I loathe our current government. I believe that less government is good government.I'll be there tomorrow hey while you are there ask them to force people in miami to learn english....you get the new camera yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted April 29 Author Report Share Posted April 29 Originally posted by saleen351 vip you are wrong. 7 am won't help the clubs. Hell they can't get people in them at 1am... Space is not just packed becasuse of its 24hour licenese. They kinda know what the fuck they are doing... If space closed at 8am, it woudl still do fine.. if it closed at 5am and their were no after hours, it will still do fine...7am doesn't and won't help the clubs.. its industry, you people are the spin zone. truth is clubbing is ovaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and nothing and i mean unless they allow drugs like ibiza to be legal... I do believe in marketing and tools that help sell a product ... in this case a nite at a club ...I won't tell clubs what to do ... because I'm far from being an expert ... but as a clubber ... if i know in a constant basis ... that a club is open until 7 am ... week in and out ... I believe some of the personal interest to go to downtown would disappear ...If you had on a Saturday ... like not to long ago ... some of the Balance DJs (which you don't like but many others do) ... at a place like Crobar ... spinning from 2 or 2:30 to 7 am ... like they do at Spcae ... trust me ... there would be lines ... and lines at 4 am ... instead of empty clubs ...I will stop there cause I know too much about "behind the scene" interests to back this up ... but don't needed to use a public forum like this one to express them ... I am convinced of my point without a need to bring it up ... as I expressed above ...Space's Sunrise Sessions wouldn't be affected drastically ... even thou they would somehow be hurt ... Anyway ... I don't think the city would do the 7 am thing ... and without it Sobe clubs are handicapped to compete with downtown ...But I DO believe this new regulation IS NOT in Sobe's economic best interest ... on the otherhand ... it is interest groups that want to erase Sobe from the nitelife map ... some new ... some the same groups as in the past ...South Beach has been in the map for dance music for a long time ... this would kill it ... including WMC ... then I think it would end up going to Las Vegas ... no doubts ... cheaper hotels and infrastructure ... that is why most BIG conventions are held there ... and money to build clubs is abundant there ... they would build more and good clubs only if there is a demand ... which with the week of WMC alone is much worth it ... if you know what you are doing ... But lets bring this thread back to its intention ... to stop this legislature ... it will hurt all of us in South Beach ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolahotass Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 :bored: :bored: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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