Why Do You Think The Scene Is Dead

[joeg]

Originally posted by georgeacasta2

The scene hasn't evolved. People have gotten tired of the same repeated loops and saturated track clones. Every tech, trance, progressive and even my beloved deephouse sounds like something I've heard before. It's getting old. Time to innovate and move on. Dance music as we know it has run it's course.

i concur.

[dialectics]

who needs new york superclubs anyway? all the guidos and b&ts...

but i think the problem with the "underground at superclub" (to quote darling nikki - "how can the rave scene be considered underground - when you go to a real rave, there's 50,000 people there!") mentality is that we all saw that the so-called establishment was giving our scene a bad name... so people turned insular - any bit of drug use or any reference to drug use had to be taken out or else it was decried as "cheesy" or "a threat."

that being said, i think there is also the maturation process happening in a lot of people, which is accellerated when you go for the music and not for anything else. We who were brought up on new york house in the early-mid 90s, and trance in the upper end of the 90s used the music as the rock to build our church around - and as we become djs and producers and as we go to more and more parties we realize that its just the same loops over and over again - and as hard as we tried to fight it, trance really is musically uninteresting. same goes for that bosh shit people call "hard trance", but preached by djs like draper and peters. its bullshit music - its not even music. it takes about 2 hours to conceive and produce a track on the order of the last remix of drapers that i heard. when you're on drugs or you're young and inexperienced that 4/4 bosh sound is new and it gives you energy. but it should get really old really quickly if you're there for music. and those that mature see trance not as the onyl style of music on the planet worth listening to, but a way of broadening their musical horizons - trance is a doorway into a larger world. every jaded raver worth their shit eventualy discovers dnb and wonders why they've been missing out on the jungle room at parties for the last 8 years. and sure there are snobs who will only listen to techno or dnb or breakbeat - but they can go fuck themselves along with the wieners and guidos.

what it comes down to is that as you grow up and you've been moving through the scene, making beats or promoting for party nights, etc, you learn that the scene is not the answer to all of your problems.... its just a lifestyle like any other. so it may feel like its dying, but it really isn't... its just evolving within you. i love the weeknight parties that new york has to offer - its what sets us apart from the rest of the world... but there's something to be said about being surrounded by 50,000 of your newest bestest friends all jumping to the same beat. until we have that in new york (hahahaha as if!) the megaclubs are just not worth it... and i can go to europe for that.

it would also help if there was a mainstream dance music radio station, but don't get me started on that one.

peaz,

rob

[sinixstar]

the only thing i'd have to correct you on is that - the parties that have 50,000 people at 'em - aren't raves. They're either musical festivals, or massives. Massive != rave. They're so completely different it's not even funny.

Anybody who tries to say that a real rave has 50,000 people at it - has absolutely no clue what they're talking about. (altho i can see where they make that mistake, a lot of the massives out west are billed as raves, and are promoted as raves, but reality is - no)

It would be cool to get something like that going on out here tho. I know creamfields was trying to put something together that would have rivaled that a few years ago, but it fell through for whatever reason.

[babbo]

like so many other things, "the scene", has be come over saturated, over commerciallized, and over exposed. You've got basically children, who's idea of partying is drinking, or drugging until black out, as their idea of a great time. these children, are basically sheep and followers. and cannot develop their own fun/party, due to lack of intelligence, and total lack of creativity. Most people out there in the clubs, and on this board, fall into this category, strictly sheep. they depend on others to follow. As a result, the internet has been a major reason why the scene has been diluted. It falsley created desire for clubs, people, and events, that are artificial, and diluted. as a result the scene has suffered, due to all the bullshit clubs, and bullshit people in the clubs, that are there. Whenever the word gets out of the underground, and into the general public, any scene, club, fashion, music, etc etcyou name, in the end will suffer to due commericialization and ignorance. add to that the generalcharacter of the local population in the NYC metro area, and you end up with what you now have, basic bullshit lol

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by babbo

like so many other things, "the scene", has be come over saturated, over commerciallized, and over exposed. You've got basically children, who's idea of partying is drinking, or drugging until black out, as their idea of a great time. these children, are basically sheep and followers. and cannot develop their own fun/party, due to lack of intelligence, and total lack of creativity. Most people out there in the clubs, and on this board, fall into this category, strictly sheep. they depend on others to follow. As a result, the internet has been a major reason why the scene has been diluted. It falsley created desire for clubs, people, and events, that are artificial, and diluted. as a result the scene has suffered, due to all the bullshit clubs, and bullshit people in the clubs, that are there. Whenever the word gets out of the underground, and into the general public, any scene, club, fahsion, music, you name, in the end will suffer to due commericialization and ignorance

man - that's flat out wack. you can't blame the decline of club culture on the internet. What kinda garbage was that?

and again - don't try blaming it on the drugs, or the kids comin up nowadays. The same shit goes on now that went on 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago with the drugs and the people acting stupid. So that excuse just doesn't fly.

[babbo]

internet is part of the problem. its is a factor. without it, most of the bullshit losers never would know where the fuck the party is, and would stay where they belong, in the olive garden or something like that in 201, or 718, or 516. you speak of 7-8 years ago. lmao.

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by babbo

internet is part of the problem. its is a factor. without it, most of the bullshit losers never would know where the fuck the party is, and would stay where they belong, in the olive garden or something like that in 201, or 718, or 516. you speak of 7-8 years ago. lmao.

LMFAO

so now you're going to pull out some stupid elitest shit?

get a clue man. seriously.

you know what really fucked up the club scene? snotty elitest fucks who don' tknow thier ass from a hole in the ground, who turned clubbing into a spectator sport. It used to be about the music and the experience, not who you are or what you do, or who you know, or who sees you. It's fuckwads like you who turned it into "fuck all those bullshit losers" that ruined shit for a lot of people.

you wanna see the problem? take a look in the mirror asswipe.

[rocksteadyct]

Originally posted by sinixstar

the only thing i'd have to correct you on is that - the parties that have 50,000 people at 'em - aren't raves. They're either musical festivals, or massives. Massive != rave. They're so completely different it's not even funny.

Anybody who tries to say that a real rave has 50,000 people at it - has absolutely no clue what they're talking about. (altho i can see where they make that mistake, a lot of the massives out west are billed as raves, and are promoted as raves, but reality is - no)

You may have been around the block but this does not seem to be your specialty

First off, a RAVE in the "original" sense of the word...has probably never even happend in the US..Your so called "massives" was what was going on in england round 88-90..it wasnt a rave unless there were thousands of people there..

Now, what a "rave" has become is a another story...everyone has their own definition, but with the "original" one - dialectics is right on point..he has been to dancevalley - have you?

[babbo]

Originally posted by sinixstar

LMFAO

so now you're going to pull out some stupid elitest shit?

get a clue man. seriously.

you know what really fucked up the club scene? snotty elitest fucks who don' tknow thier ass from a hole in the ground, who turned clubbing into a spectator sport. It used to be about the music and the experience, not who you are or what you do, or who you know, or who sees you. It's fuckwads like you who turned it into "fuck all those bullshit losers" that ruined shit for a lot of people.

you wanna see the problem? take a look in the mirror asswipe.

hey little boy you seem so upset, someone steal your bike or something?? your language its just terrible. someone should wash your mouth out with a fucking crobar

[chris817]

Just look at the post "who's better draper or junior" and have 52 replies and 693 view it.

That's what's wrong with club's today, people actually debate over draper and junior

When everybody knows draper is the man..LOL

[wakeup]

Originally posted by sinixstar

man - that's flat out wack. you can't blame the decline of club culture on the internet. What kinda garbage was that?

and again - don't try blaming it on the drugs, or the kids comin up nowadays. The same shit goes on now that went on 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago with the drugs and the people acting stupid. So that excuse just doesn't fly.

not for nothing u sound like the typical "raver kid" eating his face off

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by rocksteadyct

You may have been around the block but this does not seem to be your specialty

First off, a RAVE in the "original" sense of the word...has probably never even happend in the US..Your so called "massives" was what was going on in england round 88-90..it wasnt a rave unless there were thousands of people there..

Now, what a "rave" has become is a another story...everyone has their own definition, but with the "original" one - dialectics is right on point..he has been to dancevalley - have you?

oh, gee, i'm so sorry - so all those parties i went to for all those years aren't really raves, because they didn't take place in europe, and there wasn't 10s of thousands of people?

riiiiiiiight.

the differnt types of parties that occour over the years has changed. If you want to live in 88-90, that's fine. Be my guest. But to sit here and try to tell me that all those parties i went to in chicago, dc, wisconson, indiana, new york, ma - weren't raves, because they didn't have 50,000 people at 'em - is ridiculous.

What about the storm raves? what about the liquid sky battle under the bridge parties? what about all the drop bass parties out in madison, or the ATP parties in chicago, or the ultraworld parties in DC/baltimore? what - those aren't raves because they didn't have 50,000 people at 'em?

you gotta be kidding me, right?

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by babbo

hey little boy you seem so upset, someone steal your bike or something?? your language its just terrible. someone should wash your mouth out with a fucking crobar

hahahahaa right.

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by wakeup

not for nothing u sound like the typical "raver kid" eating his face off

and you sound the like the typical jaded elitest who doesn't want to admit that they've finally grown up.

[babbo]

Originally posted by sinixstar

and you sound the like the typical jaded elitest who doesn't want to admit that they've finally grown up.

why dont you go home sonny boy, your embarassing yourself at this point LMFAO

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by babbo

why dont you go home sonny boy, your embarassing yourself at this point LMFAO

hahaha - right.

cause i have more to say then just "damn those kids with thier drugs!!!".

bitch please.

[babbo]

yeah, you got a lot of nothing to say, drink cough medicine, thank you momma for takin care of you, try and sleep it off LMAO

[sinixstar]

Originally posted by babbo

yeah, you got a lot of nothing to say, drink cough medicine, thank you momma for takin care of you, try and sleep it off LMAO

ahahahahahaa - right. what have you added to this conversation? "it's all because of the internet man, that's how these losers found out about the clubs!"

[aspro]

yea good for you bernie. Rudy is and was a good man. He loves NYC to death. What we should worry about is this moron thats running the show now, and how he wants tomake it into his ownlil private country club where elite rich older snobby people live.

[mkutlass]

WOW so i guess you dont go out to any clubs here in the us then wow. So why are you on this FORUM under NEW YORK which is in the US. What was so great about that video.

FIRST, u (silverbull) need to get out alot more because u consider Webster Hall a kick ass club. Now what is so great with those videos, Vibe and energy..........

[FlipsSOE]

too many people started taking something that should be fun, into something more serious than it really is. somewhere along the way, everyone had this idea that they'd quit theit jobs and start making money off the nightlife, instead of going just to have fun. this also goes for plain clubbers. even those that aren't trying to capitalize off the scene ruined it by buying into what others wanted them to believe. too many opinions, too much jadedness, too much ego, too many drugs, too much prima-donna-edness. if people only went out to have fun, ahhhhhhhh; what a concept!!

[georgeacasta2]

Originally posted by sinixstar

I think to truely understand the lifecycle of cultural occurances such as raving - you have to look at similar trends throughout the past several decades. It seems as if every decade or so has it's own unique spin on the perticular sound that speaks to that generation. As a new generation comes up, they take the influences of the past, and adapt it to a new and innovative sound. Jazz gave way to rock and roll, which gave way to 60s psychedelics, which gave way to disco and funk, which gave way to the electro pop of the 80s, which gave way to electronic music. Granted, it is a little bit more complicated then that, yes... and none of the trends ever really *died*, but basicly as the boundries of the predominant trends are pushed further and further, they eventually give way to something new.

Keeping this in mind, I want you to look at electronic music from back in the late 80s/early 90s, and compare it to what's out there today. Yes, while some similarities can be drawn - it's a completely different entity. The music that fueled the legendary nasa parties, and liquid sky battles "under the bridge", and the storm raves, and etc etc - just isn't around anymore. Therefor, a logical conclusion can be drawn that since the vehicle for those parties is no more, then those parties are no more.

Is that to say that electronic music is dead? Obviously not. Is that to say that the clubbing experience, and the use of electronic music as a vehicle for social and cultural expression is dead? Obviously not. However, the context in which that social and cultural expression has changed. It has progressed to something other then what it was a decade ago, and I think for the most part it's a good thing. The music, and the way we use it to express ourselves is a manifestation of a collective social consciousness of sorts - to deny the fact that this consciousness progresses would be to say that humans never progress, thier opinions never change, that the world around them never changes - which is, absurd at best.

So where am i going with all this? What is the point i'm trying to get at?

Yes - raving is dead. Let it rest in peace. It gave us a place to start off from as we progress forward socially, culturally, and musicly. It was great while it lasted - but now it's time to create something new in it's place.

very nice work. I read it twice.

[wakeup]

Originally posted by georgeacasta2

very nice work. I read it twice.

george where is it?

[silverbull]

DUDE I love WEBSTERALL, ARC, CHEETAH, what is your point. I like places that have great music crowd to me comes second, the only place i found where everything is PERFECT is at BE YOURSELF FRIDAY NIGHTS WITH DANNY TENAGLIA. Websterhall is fun on sat cause of the music,cheetah is great on sun casue of the music and the people, but not like ARC. Ive been out to so many parties themes and clubs in NYC only and nothing i hae found is better FOR ME than the places ijust name. I DOT NEED INTERNATIONAL STARS with amazing light shows and THEMES all i need is a place with a DJ with awesome RECORDS and space to dance, with fellow music lovers.

[tastyt]

Originally posted by rocksteadyct

You may have been around the block but this does not seem to be your specialty

First off, a RAVE in the "original" sense of the word...has probably never even happend in the US..Your so called "massives" was what was going on in england round 88-90..it wasnt a rave unless there were thousands of people there..

Now, what a "rave" has become is a another story...everyone has their own definition, but with the "original" one - dialectics is right on point..he has been to dancevalley - have you?

What are you talking about? Raves started out as illegal parties thrown in warehouses and such, not events with thousands of people attending.