with all this france bashing ...

[xpyrate]

it kinna makes me think that this is exactly what people like bin laden want because we are turning on each other ... these people are turning us against friends we've had for a long time, something the u.s.s.r. never did in 50 years of the cold war. just seems to me we are playing right into their game by dividing ourselves in this way. we, as in europe and the u.s. are in this fight together. the muslims have caused terrorist attacks on european soil as well and for the same reasons they attacked us 9/11. this division can only be a detriment in the fight against terrorism --> point point

[marksimons]

also believe it's the in the administrations best interests to ensure americans believed they could go it alone without their allies...

erm.

yeah.

nice one.

[cintron]

possibly...

then again, I"m not mad at germany or russia. Just France.

I really can't think of something that France has done recently that i can point to and say "hey, thanks."

[marksimons]

erm.

and with america?

gee thanks for not ratifying kyoto, thanks for making our world safer...

heheh...

erm.

what has france done lately... not much, but then neither has britian, russia, italy, hah, italy, what a joke bellisconi is, and most other countries.

in terms of anger factor; france vs america, wonder who is winning in world opinion.

French politicians are just as opportunistic as any other. france also has issues, and probably doesn't have a moral highground to be on.

but someone has to stick their neck out, and the french do at least have some history of going against the grain and all that.

however, chirac is corrupt and dodgy, but on the plus siiide, Paris is a lovely place, as is a large part of france, and their booze is good and cheap and they know how to live.

healthy living, fuck that, red wine and good food.

I believe it's the historical indebtedness to france that is causing a lot of the anti-french stuff heheh...

not once did I hear anyone wanting to send that big ol' statue back

with regards to demonising other countries, beliefs and foriegn leaders, no-one has done as well as america has done, and continues to do.

with regards to bin laden, i was reading something, like in terms of his aims/predictions, as to american troops out of saudi arabia, and a few other things, he is disturbingly right on the money.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by cintron

possibly...

then again, I"m not mad at germany or russia. Just France.

I really can't think of something that France has done recently that i can point to and say "hey, thanks."

What country can we say that about now besides maybe the UK?

[marksimons]

don't say thanks to us, say thanks to our lying prime minister, and our 'democratic' government which allows ancient laws to let TB get control of the armed forces...

I say thankyouuu Holland for all your luuuuvely skunk, specifically that AAAAmazing white widow.

mmmhmmmm!

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

I say thankyouuu Holland for all your luuuuvely skunk, specifically that AAAAmazing white widow.

mmmhmmmm!

This certainly explains a lot.

[igloo]

Originally posted by jamiroguy1

What country can we say that about now besides maybe the UK?

You are so fucking dumb:laugh:

[pattbateman]

i think all these non-westerners are all jealous.....look at it like this EVERYONE wants to be the best right????? i mean its great to be the best dancer at a club the best singer at kareoke!!! the best player on the court it feels good and everyone strives to be the best. now i know if our country wasnt the best i would be jealous of the country that was why would that be any different?????

[marksimons]

yeah, I'm with igloo, the UK is crap, we've fucked up, and ride on our reputation, history, and million selling videogames. and our rugby team.

although iggy, I think the man was talking about the UK's support for america in the war, don't forget the ausies!

and, shit, I use a line for but, but igloo, heheh, why take one post into the shower when you can have two!

have you noticed, the british army is making changes.

cutting back on heavy armour, and give more control to america.

whoopee do.

to be honest, I just wanna live somewhere nice and career pacifist, like japan.

BATEMAN YOU TWAT!

been there done that.

that's the whole point, a hundred years ago, the british empire was the absolute shizzlemchizzlemcdaddy of empires.

we know what it's like to be the worlds best, hell the sun never set on our empire. we had the seas shored up, the rest of the world in line, the natives were pacified, apart from the odd incident, and the empire was going to last forever.

except erm.

it didn't.

now, we've just about got over our loss, not that we lost anything real, profits, titles, prestige, but we probably gained a lot as well.

incidentally the fall of the british empire created more democracies than I think any other single event, correct me if I'm wrong please.

and as for america being the best country on earth, remember the words of public enemy: "don't believe the hype"

america is the last 19th century european empire.

just much more effecient, and it's not the best country on earth, any country that locks up weed smokers, by default forfits any right to be in the running for best nation on earth.

sorry guys.

that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by igloo

You are so fucking dumb:laugh:

I was being serious Iggy. My question still stands:

WHAT COUNTRIES CAN WE LOOK AT AND HONESTLY SAY, "YOU KNOW WHAT, THANKS!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, FOR YOUR SUPPORT IN EVERYTHING WE DO."?

[pattbateman]

NONE cause all we do is send aid and help out struggling countries with what ever, disease, natural disaster what ever.......but what do we get in return JACKSHIT we get a bunch of bs when we DONT help someone out its bullshit and im sick and tired of it...............then again thats the responsibility you take when are you at the "top of da food chain nigga"

[marksimons]

niggers have known who is at the top of the foodchain bateman, for quite some time, rich white men.

b-b-but what happens when america isn't top of the food chain?

what happens when the chinese economy pisses all over the US one by virtue of being, erm, fucking massive.

what then?

what happens if south america becomes a serious rival - now countries like brazil have gotton over the american interference in their democratic processes. what if a russian backed euro becomes a rival to the dollar.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by pattbateman

NONE

Thank you. I've proven my point.

[pattbateman]

theoreticals i love it. keep them comin what if the martians came and we all had to join forces to shoot them down or would you guys wanna make peace first , then they come and take all our natural resoruces and we all die out?????

[marksimons]

this is gonna be fun.

look what I do to you post bateman. see the subtle political points I'm going to make:

"theoreticals i love it. keep them comin what if the martians came and we all had to join forces to shoot them down or would you guys wanna make peace first , then they come and take all our natural resoruces and we all die out?????"

turns into, the iraqibateman giving a call to arms:

"theoreticals i love it. keep them comin what if the Americans came and we all had to join forces to shoot them down or would you guys wanna make peace first , then they come and take all our natural resoruces and we all die out?????"

[pattbateman]

hey dude its survival of the fitists mother nature ALWAYS wins and if you gotta fight to survive then so be it you only live once

[marksimons]

spot the orwell steal. it's blatent. but I wanna see if anyone gets the reference...

they have this tv show, it's really great.

shit what's it's name, ah, that's right Sesame Street.

in this program they teach children about 'co-operation', it's a novel concept, you should try it one day.

with regards to the might is right concept of international relations, that's fine, until someone gets pissed and does something they're not supposed to, and hijacks a plane...

action, reaction, action, reaction...

how fucking long can it go on for.

the problem is that 90% of casualties in modern wars are civilians, which is a bit of a change from when most battles pre 20th century, for sure they were not nice, and there was a rapin' and a pilaging, but they didn't have 'collateral damage' and a bloody battlefield is better than a firebombed country.

bateman.

I can't be fucked.

you're 20, I'm 20, you need to do some reading up on your history and politics boy, so you don't sound so f'ing crazy. and this is coming from me.

survial of the fittest is an interesting notion, and it works, but don't take it too far in terms of genetics, we end up in naziville.

but the thing is, countries aren't people, despite people being in countries, you can't label, or treat countries as people, it doesn't work.

you can keep screwing over countries just because you have the military and economic power to do so, if you're so strong that morals don't enter into it, then don't fucking ever bitch about sept 11th, just survival of the fittest, and if they were fit enough they'd have ran down those motherfucking steps, but being the fatassstupid americans they are, they had to stay in those towers as they fell around them.

nah, not what I really think, but in this world of survial of the fittest, WHO GIVES A SHIT about the dead right? they're dead? not fit enough FUCK THEM.

and fuck the starving kids. fuck the people dying from aids. fuck the people in prison and being tortured by despotic regimes supported by our governments. let them fucking die, fucking lower on the foodchain pieces of shit.

just so long as we can sit here, throwing away food, polluting the air and spawing selfish petulent little bastards who believe the earth is theirs to inheret, just so long as they realise the picture of humanity is a booth stamping on a face for the rest of time.

[pattbateman]

for one thing i read a lot my posts are bad cause i have so much shit to say i just cant fit it and i will not bore you my posts are just ramblings off the top of my head i am actually in the library of my school as i have written all afternoon. ironically reading a book about bias in the media anyway...and you make our country seem like a communist nation tryin to take over the world..

and have no respect for human life

we all really have the best of intentions to make the world a better place

[marksimons]

your innocence is touching.

understand about the typing, look at my posts.

but.

ever hear the one from vietnam

"to save this village we have to destroy it"

the leaders of europe had the best intentions in 1914, that went shitty.

good intentions? perhaps, but it doesn't seem it.

bateman. have you ever heard of the Project for a New American Century?

with regards to communism...

if you actually look at it, the notion that communist russia wanted to take over the world is slightly deluded.

post 1945 the country had suffered two brutal wars, revoultion and was struggling to drag itself into the modern world. over 40 million of its subjects had died in 20 years.

not in a position to start more wars.

also the american response to the soviet threat, egged on by the british, was completely out of synch with the threat, even china. if you look at incidents near russia, you look at the american spy U2 spy flights over the country - imagine if russia had tried it!!! - and then look at the clandestine involvement of the CIA in things.

you want some knowlege batemean, go do a library search for Blum,W. The CIA: A Forgotten History, and get an introduction into how the foriegn policy of your great nation actually works.

History

[pattbateman]

russia given time and rebuilding efforts would have had no problem spreading the communist political party. everyone communist or dictatorship or ill say the majority wants to spread their regime. and the people dont want it ..

i mean fuck, would u like to live in china????

cuba???

north korea???

it would suck people have a natural urge to want to be free and do what they wanna do to an extent you cannot cage that natural urge

[marksimons]

yes, but my point is do you know what was done by America in the name of anti-communism?

do you know how many heads of state were killed, or deposed of because they showed vaguley notions of socialism like *shock* wantion to nationalise industry.

do you know anything about guatamala, el salvador, iran, italy, brazil, chile, iraq, australia, korea, vietnam and what was done to 'free' people from 'communism'

what if people, now, please, this might take a leap of the imagination, but what if, hear me out, this might be too far fetched for you here, but what if people actually voted for communists.

what if they freely elected representatives of the communist party to their governments.

not taking over the governments, but say to areas of land reform and stuff dealing with social issues, where communists have an interest.

would you expect america to undermine the democratically elected government and try and put in a puppet regime of its own? no? well shit, get used to it, it happed many time during the cold war, the cold war being a pretext to ensure that many countries stayed nice and cosy with america.

[pattbateman]

under power people are scared

wasnt it saddam who had a vote in iraq that was like 100% in favor of him????

and i know 100% of the people didnt want him in power

and yeah in our country there were communist in our government during the "mccarthy era"

if your elected that fine. but what were you refering to siting actual people elected as communists?????i mean in a communist state and people are elected as communist thats not real reliable

[marksimons]

I mean in a representative democracy, because, get this, communists can stand as communists in elections with anyone else, and you know what? in some places they get elected.

the reason for this? because russian communism is not communism. it is a totalitarian state, much like the communism of china. it's not marxist, it's just power.

however, some people actually rather respect the opinions and views of marx, especially in situations the results of capital, class and the like are plain to all.

communists can work in a govt without taking it over.

this was happening in places, but on a few ocassions the american govt used this as pretext for an 'immenent' communist takeover and just got rid of them one way or another.

the point is that any vaguely left wing was labelled communist, because people might start standing up to american might.

[pattbateman]

read a book about the mccarthy era then tell me your bullshit about liberals being communist and tryin to pawn it off as conservatives just being communist crazy.