igloo Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 Originally posted by marksimons did you know of the balfour declaration before I posted it igloo?oh and someone look at the 12th amendment thing, it really is more interesting than it sounds :-) stop avoiding my post on this thread you fucking blowhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksimons Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 took me a while to find the post with content...erm...BTW I tried looking for UN resolutions that palestine has broken, or had passed against them, I couldn't find any... if there are some, please someone post them here.israel is the agressor in this situation. they are the occupying force.that is an unavoidable fact.the situation is complex and simple at the same time.wider feelings in the arab world are not the same issue as the palestine one.anti-american feeling has more basis than just the continuing economic and military support America gives to israel.Israel is a first world country, similar to many european nations and america. Palestine is made up of occupied territories and refugee camps.Unemployment in the west bank is 50% unemployment in israel is about 10% - the highest it's been for a while.70% of people in the west bank and gaza live on less than $2 a day.- according to US AIDwww.usaid.gov/country/ane/west_bank_gaza.pdfthe average monthly wage in israel, as of july 2003 was 1,597 $US a month.http://www.btl.gov.il/English/terms.htmyou see the difference here. one society is an afluent nation, the other is a third world country with a ruined infastructure...The two sides are in entirely different positions.America gives about 3.3 billion dollars a year to israel at the moment. and about 100 million to the Palestinian authority.now, igloo, is it any wonder, with these statistics, and the fact that since WWII Israel has been the largest cumulative reciever of US aid, that some people think that Israel and the US are inextricably linked...in 2000 the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs estimated total aid to Israel through FY 2000 at $91.82 billion - and that is probably short by a few billion.http://www.ifamericansknew.org/chron/appendixb.pdf.israel is a militarised society.quotes from a CNN thing about israel:For 50 years, the Israeli army has been the glue that held this country together. "Sometimes you ask yourself, 'Is this a nation with a military or is this a military that holds a nation?'"http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9804/29/israel.glue/very apt question.92% of young israeli's spend 3 years in the army. rabbis don't have to.in european society of the 19th and early 20th century, and notably in germany, military conscription was seen as a good way of instilling a fear of god, a respect for authority, and an aid to nationalism.israel's budget for the army in 2004 is about 4.3 billion dollars.palestine does not have an army.from a tacical point of view they are outgunned in every way.but every time a civilian is killed, on either side, well, it seems to result in more calls for revenge.you've gotta ask yourself.how much longer can this go on for.in the Irish peace talks, bombs still went off, there was a massive bomb in Omagh a few years ago, yet peace is still, generally, the situation, although irish politicians are as bad, perhaps worse than the rest, and recent elections elected hard liners on both sides, but well, given the world situation, not toooo surprising...still, broadly speaking there is peace.but Ireland is still the English's Palestine, but we've terroised that place since, ooh the 17th century, right through to the 70's - bloody sunday et al.however, as far as I can remember the british army never demolished homes or used missiles in one of the most densly populated areas on earth. feel free to correct me.anyway, gone slightly off track.the problem is, you can never win a war against a militia, or guerilla force that is willing to resort to suicide bombings, or even if they're not.unless you seriously repress the society, it is not possible.the english, to some extent, have learnt this in ireland. no longer will our police fit up the first irish blokes they find near the scene of a crime.we tried abitrarily rounding up and interning lots of young males, and, well guess what, that antagonised them.so.there are people on both sides who need to restrain themselves, but Igloo, seriously, put yourself in the position of the palestinians, who have been invaded, driven off their land or forced into refugee camps.their houses and land can be siezed, they could be killed at any time, day or night, and no longer feel safe in their own homes.imagine if your grandparents had been driven into a refugee camp, and it was the only life you knew, and given that this has lasted for 50 years, could you imagine peace? mightn't it make you feel like you have nothing to loose and go out in a blaze of glory.not saying it's right, but you have to be able to understand the feelings involved.you need to try and understand how militarised and conditioned to war the israeli people are, the effect of serving actively in the repression of another peoples has on you, you need to develop the ability to dehumanise, or desensatise the 'enemy'.it fucks you up.yes in the wider arab world there are nasty religous types who stir up hate.but then you look at the Christian right in America, as equaly vile, disgusting and uncondusive to peace as any Muslim preacher of hate.2002-FALL: The Ethics and Public Policy Center, a Washington think-tank, and Beliefnet, a religious Internet web site, commissioned a poll of 700 Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestant leaders. The poll was conducted by the Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at the University of Akron, and was financed by a grant from the Pew Charitable Trusts. Results were released on 2003-APR-7. Half of the religious leaders responded; this is a very large return for a mail-in poll. The poll showed that:77% had an unfavorable view of Islam; 13% had a favorable view.72% believe that Islam opposes pluralism (in the sense of religious diversity) and democracy,72% believe that the Sharia legal systems violate human freedom.10% agreed with President George W. Bush that Islam is "a religion of peace." 70% believe that Islam is a religion of violence.17% believe that Muslims and Christian pray to the same God.2% believe that all the world's great religions are equally true and goodhttp://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter18a.htm2002-OCT-28: ABCNEWS.com reported on the results of an ABCNEWS/Beliefnet poll conducted in 2002-OCT among a random sampling of American adults. Some interesting results:The percentage of American adults with an unfavorable view of Islam rose from 24% in January to 33% in October.The percentage of American adults who say that Islam "doesn't teach respect for other faiths" rose from 22% to 35%.The percentage of American adults who feel that they do not have a good basic understanding of the beliefs and tenets of Islam rose from 61% to 73%.Evangelical, white Protestants are 22 percentage points more likely than other white Protestants to express an unfavorable opinion of Islam. --I believe that there are about 60% of americans who consider themselves actively christian, compared to about 30% in europe...--religious tolerance has to be a two way street... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 Originally posted by marksimons israel is the agressor in this situation. they are the occupying force.that is an unavoidable fact.... Asshole....stop vomiting already...you are a fucking bore and a fraud with your rambling posts...It does not take much to regurgitate all the bullshit that flows from your ass, so get over yourself...you are not impressing anyone...And as usual, you avoid the main point...as usual, you don't get it....as usual, your rants and "facts" do not provide anything to the debate ......As usual, you are nothing but a fraud and a blowhard who does not have a fucking clue what you are talking about....As usual, blaming America (and Israel) for someone's else's failuresSeriously, you and your diatribes should stick to fucking each other up the ass you fucking one-sided fool.....Nice job avoiding my post in favor of your bullshit....Fucking clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksimons Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 like these statistics from government websites?70% of people in the west bank and gaza live on less than $2 a day.- according to US AIDwww.usaid.gov/country/ane/west_bank_gaza.pdfthe average monthly wage in israel, as of july 2003 was 1,597 $US a month.http://www.btl.gov.il/English/terms.htmigloo, please, correct any factual errors I have made in my posts on this thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 Originally posted by marksimons igloo, please, correct any factual errors I have made in my posts on this thread.... Asshole, how fucking stupid can you fucking be?...Unbelievable display of being self-absorbed in your own bullshit..No one is doubting some, SOME of your facts...it is your application and analysis that make you a clueless fucking blowhard....as well as your selective use of "facts"..."cause and effect" works both ways you stupid jerkoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpyrate Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 Originally posted by igloo Asshole, how fucking stupid can you fucking be?...Unbelievable display of being self-absorbed in your own bullshit..No one is doubting some, SOME of your facts...it is your application and analysis that make you a clueless fucking blowhard....as well as your selective use of "facts"..."cause and effect" works both ways you stupid jerkoff one could say the same of nearly all your bullshit responses like that ... another arguement of insults that have no merit other than to clutter the current events board with useless drama ... when you say such things it only detracts from any real valid points you might have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 28 Report Share Posted December 28 Originally posted by xpyrate another arguement of insults that have no merit other than to clutter the current events board with useless drama ... when you say such things it only detracts from any real valid points you might have Like I have said before....blatant anti-Americanism is an insult.....blaming America for everything is offensive, shameful, and lame....selective and half-ass use of history and "facts" is drama....long winded rants and diatribes about everything but nothing and avoiding the main debate point does nothing but clutter the board........Continually pointing out the imperfections of something that will always be imperfect and trying to create the perception that the bad outweighs the good detracts from valid points that may be made......The need to make the U.S. the villain for others failures is offensive, insulting, counter-productive, self-serving, and downright dumb.If you don't like my verbal attacks, too bad. If it is your right to post your bullshit on this board, it is my right to shove it back up your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by igloo Like I have said before....blatant anti-Americanism is an insult.....blaming America for everything is offensive, shameful, and lame....selective and half-ass use of history and "facts" is drama....long winded rants and diatribes about everything but nothing and avoiding the main debate point does nothing but clutter the board........Continually pointing out the imperfections of something that will always be imperfect and trying to create the perception that the bad outweighs the good detracts from valid points that may be made......The need to make the U.S. the villain for others failures is offensive, insulting, counter-productive, self-serving, and downright dumb.If you don't like my verbal attacks, too bad. If it is your right to post your bullshit on this board, it is my right to shove it back up your ass. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by xpyrate one could say the same of nearly all your bullshit responses like that ... another arguement of insults that have no merit other than to clutter the current events board with useless drama ... when you say such things it only detracts from any real valid points you might have I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 I concur. You concur with an imbecile? That does not bode well for your progression path.....aligning yourself with a simpleton is a disappointing setback..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by mr mahs Holacaust? They've been blacklisted since before christ... ummm...but that was Christians slaughtering Jews....not Muslims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by igloo blatant anti-Americanism is an insult.....blaming America for everything is offensive, shameful, and lame....selective and half-ass use of history and "facts" is drama....long winded rants and diatribes about everything but nothing and avoiding the main debate point does nothing but clutter the board........Continually pointing out the imperfections of something that will always be imperfect and trying to create the perception that the bad outweighs the good detracts from valid points that may be made......The need to make the U.S. the villain for others failures is offensive, insulting, counter-productive, self-serving, and downright dumb. who mentioned the US in this thread?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by bigpoppanils ummm...but that was Christians slaughtering Jews....not Muslims Poppa nils is right. Hitler was Catholic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by bigpoppanils who mentioned the US in this thread?! marksimons...And even if he did not, what does it matter if the U.S. was not mentioned?....I was directly responding to xpyrate comments, which required bringing up the U.S.Besides, if you are going to be the Tangent Police, you should really be diverting your focus elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by igloo marksimons...And even if he did not, what does it matter if the U.S. was not mentioned?....I was directly responding to xpyrate comments, which required bringing up the U.S.Besides, if you are going to be the Tangent Police, you should really be diverting your focus elsewhere and where is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by igloo marksimons...And even if he did not, what does it matter if the U.S. was not mentioned?....I was directly responding to xpyrate comments, which required bringing up the U.S.Besides, if you are going to be the Tangent Police, you should really be diverting your focus elsewhere He is a moderator, jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by djxeno and where is that? I will give you a pass on this one being that the marksimons ramblings are absurd, but on page two of this thread....he speaks about the U.S. aid to Israel, the American relgious right, some other shit....Again, this is an absurd question....who gives a fuck who brought it up...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 He is a moderator, jackass. No shit rocket scientist....That is my point...for starters, who gives a fuck who brought up the U.S. "first'......not relevant.....And if you still think who brought it up first is so important, then don't be a hyprocrite and point it out as a "tangent" since an unnamed person here is famous for that..Understand brainiac?This is a fucking retarded back and forth..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by igloo No shit rocket scientist....That is my point...for starters, who gives a fuck who brought up the U.S. "first'......not relevant.....And if you still think who brought it up first is so important, then don't be a hyprocrite and point it out as a "tangent" since an unnamed person here is famous for that..Understand brainiac?This is a fucking retarded back and forth..... You really need to be euthanised, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 29 Report Share Posted December 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 You really need to be euthanised, dude. You must be so sick of getting your ass kicked and your stupidity exposed by me.....It is too easy, so let's hope the new year brings a better challenge for me....Then again, if the last few posts by you is any indication of what 2004 is going to bring, perhaps you do belong with xpyrate at the Pokemon club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksimons Posted December 30 Report Share Posted December 30 all I mentioned was that at the moment America gives about 3 billion a year to isreal, and since the state was set up the total is at least 91 billion dollars aid to israel.it seems america gives about 100 million a year to the Palestinian Authority.these are facts.I also mentioned the UN resolutions censuring Israel that the US has vetoed over the years, there have been 29 occasions.once again, a fact.Here is where I mention the american right:"yes in the wider arab world there are nasty religous types who stir up hate."but then you look at the Christian right in America, as equaly vile, disgusting and uncondusive to peace as any Muslim preacher of hate."someone try and show me this isn't true.you bring me some stupid crazy violent sexist, homophobic, racist islamic stuff, and I can damn well sure find similar material from the us.then to vagely go on with that theme, of religious intolerance I quote a couple of surveys, one from:The Ethics and Public Policy Center, a Washington think-tankwhich looks at the views of 700 Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestant leaders in early 2003.and one from ABCNEWS.com that looks at american attitudes towards islam in oct 2002.--right, I've done the hard work for you, collected all I've said about america in this thread and put it in one place - if I've missed anything I'm sorry - now where are my rabid anti american sentiments?I feel the US is important, I mean shit, 3.3 billion a year to israel, that's no small drop in the ocean.especially as the israeli military budget is just over 4 billion - would they be able to afford their large high tech army without american assistance?israel has recieved the most aid loans etc from america post WWII of any other country.I believe it is perfectly right and proper to bring this incontrovertable fact out into the open.......now watch it be proved wrong and me look a twat... heheh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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