"Existence of Israel contrary to Iranian interests"

[igloo]

Raver..I could not find my orginal post about Iran's comments (my eyes are bleeding from searching) but I came across a few others:

"The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history," he said. "If the day comes when the world of Islam is equipped with weapons similar to those that Israel possesses ... nothing will remain after one atom bomb is dropped on Israel."

-Hashemi Rafsanjani, former Iranian president and currently chairman of the government's powerful guidance council

Former Iranian “president†Ali Akhbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, in a sermon at Tehran University on December 14, said that if the Islamic world ever obtains nuclear weapons Israel will cease to exist.

Iran refuses to recognise Israel and top officials frequently call for the destruction of the Jewish state.[/b

"Existence of Israel contrary to Iranian interests"

Monday, November 10, 2003 - ©2003 IranMania.com

TEHRAN, Nov 10, (AFP) -- The mere existence of Israel is contrary to Tehran's national interests, press reports said Monday, quoting former Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Velayati, now a top advisor to Iran's supreme leader.

"One of the elements of progress in a country is regional cooperation. Israel was created to prevent unity and cooperation between Islamic countries, that is why the existence of Israel is in contradiction with the national interests of Iran," Velayati was quoted as saying by the conservative Ressalat newspaper.

"Today, there is a close spiritual relationship between Palestinian fighters and the Islamic republic, and this cannot be ignored," he added, saying that the "new step in the Palestinian struggle has been influenced by the Islamic revolution and the Lebanese Hezbollah."

Iran refuses to recognise Israel and top officials frequently call for the destruction of the Jewish state. But Tehran denies giving material support to Palestinian militants.

During a major military parade on September 22, the Islamic republic showed off six of its Shahab-3 missiles which were decorated with anti-Israeli and anti-US slogans, including one saying Israel should be "wiped off the map".

Like the United States, Israel in turn accuses Iran of using a civil atomic energy programme as a cover to develop nuclear weapons.

There has been mounting speculation the Jewish state's hawkish government may be considering pre-emptive strikes against Iranian nuclear installations.

Hashemi Rafsanjani, former Iranian president and currently chairman of the government's powerful guidance council

On Dec. 14 [2001], , told a Tehran University audience that the vast Muslim world could easily survive nuclear war, while tiny Israel would be destroyed. "The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history," he said. "If the day comes when the world of Islam is equipped with weapons similar to those that Israel possesses ... nothing will remain after one atom bomb is dropped on Israel."

Former Iranian “president†Ali Akhbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, in a sermon at Tehran University on December 14, said that if the Islamic world ever obtains nuclear weapons Israel will cease to exist.

Rafsanjani said that Muslims must surround colonialism and force them [the colonialists] to see whether Israel is beneficial to them or not. If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel's possession [meaning nuclear weapons] - on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.

]

[igloo]

djxeno.....what you say about these comments, specifically:

"The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history,"

What you say about its influence?

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

djxeno.....what you say about these comments, specifically:

"The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history,"

What you say about its influence?

i dont know if i could call it the worst event in all of history.

but you know my stance on Israel so let me just leave you alone with your thoughts.....

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

i dont know if i could call it the worst event in all of history.

but you know my stance on Israel so let me just leave you alone with your thoughts.....

And the nucelar threat?

[djxeno]

"The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history," he said. "If the day comes when the world of Islam is equipped with weapons similar to those that Israel possesses ... nothing will remain after one atom bomb is dropped on Israel."

-Hashemi Rafsanjani, former Iranian president and currently chairman of the government's powerful guidance council

ok so this is what he said. this really isn't any different from what israel is doing right now, whether directly or indirectly.

the fact is, the war on iraq, afghanistan, and eventually iran, will leave israel as the superpower in the middle east and they will be able to do anything they want.........they have said many times that they want the land of biblical times which was promised to them......thus the day which the iranian president is speaking of probably won't ever occur....sadly.

[igloo]

Originally posted by igloo

And the nucelar threat?

How about this:

Hatred of Israel is the most striking symptom of the Western disease. On the face of it the dilemma there is a no-brainer for any classic liberal: A consensual government is besieged by fanatical suicide killers who are subsidized and cheered on by many dictators in the Arab world. The bombers share the same barbaric methods as Chechens, the 9/11 murderers, al Qaedists in Turkey, and what we now see in Iraq.

Indeed, the liberal Europeans should love Israel, whose social and cultural institutions — universities, the fine arts, concern for the “other†— so reflect its own. Gays are in the Israeli military, whose soldiers rarely salute, but usually address each other by their first names and accept a gender equity that any feminist would love. And while Arabs once may have been exterminated by Syrians, gassed in Yemen by Egypt, ethnically cleansed in Kuwait, lynched without trial in Palestine, burned alive in Saudi Arabia, inside Israel proper they vote and enjoy human rights not found elsewhere in the Arab Middle East.

When Europe frets over the “Right of Return†do they mean the over half-million Jews who were sent running for their lives from Egypt, Syria, and Iraq? Or do they ever ask why a million Arabs live freely in Israel and another 100,000 illegally have entered the “Zionist entity� Does a European ever ask what would happen should thousands of Jews demand “A Right of Return†to Cairo?

Instead, the elite Westerner talks about “occupied lands†from which Israel has been attacked four times in the last 60 years — in a manner that Germans do not talk about an occupied West they coughed up to France or an occupied East annexed by Poland. Russia lectures about Jenin, but rarely its grab of Japanese islands. Turkey is worried about the West Bank, but not its swallowing much of Cyprus. China weighs in about Palestinian sovereignty but not the entire culture of Tibet; some British aristocrats bemoan Sharon’s supposed land grab, but not Gibraltar.

All these foreign territories that were acquired through blood and iron and held on to by reasons of “national security†are somehow different matters when Jews are not involved. Yet give Israel a population of 250 million, massive exports of oil and terrorists — and wipe away anti-Semitism — and even the Guardian or Le Monde would change its tune.

[kramadas]

Really rash comments, but good thing he's a former president. Personally, I really doubt anything like that will happen even if Iran acquired nuclear weapons.

BTW, Pakistan (an Islamic country) already has nukes, and Israel is still there.

BTW, thanks for the research Igloo.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

How about this:

And while Arabs once may have been exterminated by Syrians, gassed in Yemen by Egypt, ethnically cleansed in Kuwait, lynched without trial in Palestine, burned alive in Saudi Arabia, inside Israel proper they vote and enjoy human rights not found elsewhere in the Arab Middle East.

.

this is a complete lie. you call corpses not being allowed to be buried human rights?

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by djxeno

i dont know if i could call it the worst event in all of history.

but you know my stance on Israel so let me just leave you alone with your thoughts.....

On Dec. 14 [2001], , told a Tehran University audience that the vast Muslim world could easily survive nuclear war, while tiny Israel would be destroyed. "The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history," he said. "If the day comes when the world of Islam is equipped with weapons similar to those that Israel possesses ... nothing will remain after one atom bomb is dropped on Israel."

And why are they branded evil you ask?

[kramadas]

BTW, Israeli Arabs are NOT treated the same as Israeli Jews. There's a ton of discrimination against them.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by mr mahs

On Dec. 14 [2001], , told a Tehran University audience that the vast Muslim world could easily survive nuclear war, while tiny Israel would be destroyed. "The founding of the state of Israel is the worst event in all of history," he said. "If the day comes when the world of Islam is equipped with weapons similar to those that Israel possesses ... nothing will remain after one atom bomb is dropped on Israel."

And why are they branded evil you ask?

before you belive one person speaking on behalf of all muslims, i suggest you read the qu'ran for enlightenment.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by djxeno

before you belive one person speaking on behalf of all muslims, i suggest you read the qu'ran for enlightenment.

I was referring to you previous post on the allegations against Iran on no merit.. I think the paragraph I posted illustrates that ...

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

before you belive one person speaking on behalf of all muslims, i suggest you read the qu'ran for enlightenment.

It is not the qu'ran that is the issue, it is how some teach the preaching of the qu'ran...

ANd perhaps the problem is there is no one speaking on behalf of true Muslims and true Islam.....

or those who speak on behalf of militant islam are much louder with growing influence

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

It is not the qu'ran that is the issue, it is how some teach the preaching of the qu'ran...

ANd perhaps the problem is there is no one speaking on behalf of true Muslims and true Islam.....

or those who speak on behalf of militant islam are much louder with growing influence

or maybe the media is just fixated on militant islam, ever think of that?

i personally attend an Islamic Conference every year with over 5000 of my fellow muslims where we denounce terrorism and the sept. 11 attacks.

but you don't know about that cuz you dont see that on the news.

[igloo]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Really rash comments, but good thing he's a former president. Personally, I really doubt anything like that will happen even if Iran acquired nuclear weapons.

BTW, Pakistan (an Islamic country) already has nukes, and Israel is still there.

BTW, thanks for the research Igloo.

No problem, I was hoping to find the orginal article..

Even those he is the former President, he still retains a pwer post and has overwhelming influence.....

I hope you are right about Iran just making empty threats....but is a still a grave concern....one that has to be taken very serious.....

[babbo]

Originally posted by djxeno

or maybe the media is just fixated on militant islam, ever think of that?

i personally attend an Islamic Conference every year with over 5000 of my fellow muslims where we denounce terrorism and the sept. 11 attacks.

but you don't know about that cuz you dont see that on the news.

yet you condemn isreal- hate israel- commend the killing and the hating- how are you better than the rest??

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

No problem, I was hoping to find the orginal article..

Even those he is the former President, he still retains a pwer post and has overwhelming influence.....

I hope you are right about Iran just making empty threats....but is a still a grave concern....one that has to be taken very serious.....

yes, it is a grave concern cuz israel is our butt buddy.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by babbo

yet you condemn isreal- hate israel- commend the killing and the hating- how are you better than the rest??

whoa gina you are out of line.

i never commended any killing of any sort.

i even stated in my previous posts that i did not want innocent israelis to die.

and yes i condem israel cuz it is a racist, facist nation which has violated 67 U.N resolutions and international law.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by djxeno

i personally attend an Islamic Conference every year with over 5000 of my fellow muslims

What a perfect place for a M.O.A.B......]

j/k:D

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

yes, it is a grave concern cuz israel is our butt buddy.

More rope.....

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

or maybe the media is just fixated on militant islam, ever think of that?

i personally attend an Islamic Conference every year with over 5000 of my fellow muslims where we denounce terrorism and the sept. 11 attacks.

but you don't know about that cuz you dont see that on the news.

The media is fixated on militant Islam???????????????????????

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??

I would think the murder of innocent people and destruction caused by militant Islam is the issue....

man, you are fucked up

[badiye]

Originally posted by igloo

How about this:

. . .A consensual government is besieged by fanatical suicide killers who are subsidized and cheered on by many dictators in the Arab world. . .

Indeed, the liberal Europeans should love Israel, whose social and cultural institutions — universities, the fine arts, concern for the “other†— so reflect its own. . .

. . .some British aristocrats bemoan Sharon’s supposed land grab, but not Gibraltar.

All these foreign territories that were acquired through blood and iron and held on to by reasons of “national security†are somehow different matters when Jews are not involved. Yet give Israel a population of 250 million, massive exports of oil and terrorists — and wipe away anti-Semitism — and even the Guardian or Le Monde would change its tune.

What rubbish. What right wing fanatic are you quoting here? or do you actually want to take credit for this mumble jumble?

I couldn't care less if Israel was the model of democracy in the entire world, any un-biased reading of history, now even admitted by almost the majority of current Israeli historians, shows that the formation of Israel was essentially a big huge land grab. All this "national security" bullshit is a big Kabuke dance meant to allow Israel to keep the land it stole and consolidate it.

And what's this nonsense about Sharon's "supposed" land grab? What would you call it? The man has a 40 year history of claiming these territories as those of Israel and he is accomplishing just that under the pretext of "security". How blind must you be not to see that?

The phenomena of suicide bombings did not occur in a vaccum, although you clearly would like to believe that. It is a REACTIONARY consequence of the continuous plundering of an entire people. Terrorism was brought in to the region by Zionist long before Islamic militancy even took root. Begin, Shamir and Sharon, along with many others committed acts of terrorism and barbarism before and after the formation of Israel. In the year of 1947 alone, Zionist militants committed an average of 1 act of terrorism A DAY. This includes the assassination of Count Bernadotte, and the bombing of the King David hotel, both in 1947. In 1948, Jewish forces committed the massacre of Deir Yassin, where 254 men, women and children were raped, killed and pillaged. 750,000.00 Palestinians were uprooted by force from the land "designated" by the UN partition for them to live on, and were not allowed to return BY FORCE. Their villages were immediately destroyed and they were turned in refugees. What is it you call that? NOT a land a grab? By contrast, the PLO wasn't formed until late 50's, the Fatah movement wasn't to be until early 60's. Hamas and Jihad do not appear until early eighties. Who is the instigator? who introduced terrorism as a mean to an end to the region? There are countless other infamies committed by Israeli forces on Civilian Arabs, well before the emergence of any fundamentalists.

In 1967, Israel took what is now the occupied territories in a war IT STARTED, but claimed "self defense". Over 1 million Palestinians find themselves under military occupation SINCE THEN. Despite one resolution after the other, almost all supported by those damm liberal western states, including the US, Israel continues to keep the land, AND installs settlements there. (the only reason the UN has been unable to force Israel to comply with these numerous resolution is that the US continuously vetoed any enforcement measures, for purely domestic political reasons. Contrast that with the US' handling of Iraq).

Now there are about 250,000 settlers living there, with three representatives in Sharon's cabinet, all three pushing publicly for ethnic cleansing of the land. The Palestinians have lived almost 40 years under occupation. Two full generations. It is a miracle that there are not MORE acts of terrorism than what you're seeing now.

In the meantime, Israel has developed nuclear weapons, has had a $9 billion defense budget for more than a decade, heavily subsidized by the US, who also provides it with state of the art weaponary. (by contrast, Syria, the so-called "great" threat to Israel, has a defense budget of less than $300 Million. Their weapons are manufactured in S. Korea and E. European countries)

The canard here is that right wing fanatics, apparently including yourself, portray Israel as a poor little country under an existential threat the resistance of a desperate people, some of whom have turned to fanatism and desperate acts such as suicide bombings, none of which could even remotely come close to be considered an "esistential" threat. In reality, Israel is the biggest bully in the region, and I don't give a flying crap if this bully happens to be a "democracy". In foreign affairs, a state is not judged by its internal composition but by its conduct vis a vis other states. Jordan is not a democracy, but in foreign policy, its ruler, a King, acts more reasonably and sensibly than your precious little democracy with a war criminal for a Prime Minister.

If anything, since the Israeli people proves itself capable of continuously voting into office disgusting governments such as that of Sharon, or Shamir, Begin and Netanyahu before him, than they are showing a weak moral fiber as a people. If democracy = "good" government, than they should be voting for someone who will recognize the misery inflicted by Israel on the Palestinians, and work to have a magnanimous, humanitarian resolution of that conflict. Until then, we "western liberals" will politely ask you to shove that "lecture" about how we should "love" Israel because it is a democracy who has gays in its military (huh?), because we're not about to start "loving" the bully. And no amount of re-fabrication of the truth is going to convince us that Israel is a victim.

With all due respect,

Imad.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by igloo

The media is fixated on militant Islam???????????????????????

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??

I would think the murder of innocent people and destruction caused by militant Islam is the issue....

man, you are fucked up

I think his point was that the media is only fixated in the sensational pieces, like militant Islam. Moderate Islam and views expressed by these moderates (including condemnation of terrorists) is largely ignored by the media, because, in reality, it does not make for a catchy piece.

[jamiroguy1]

I like this guy, badiye.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by badiye

What rubbish. What right wing fanatic are you quoting here? or do you actually want to take credit for this mumble jumble?

I couldn't care less if Israel was the model of democracy in the entire world, any un-biased reading of history, now even admitted by almost the majority of current Israeli historians, shows that the formation of Israel was essentially a big huge land grab. All this "national security" bullshit is a big Kabuke dance meant to allow Israel to keep the land it stole and consolidate it.

And what's this nonsense about Sharon's "supposed" land grab? What would you call it? The man has a 40 year history of claiming these territories as those of Israel and he is accomplishing just that under the pretext of "security". How blind must you be not to see that?

The phenomena of suicide bombings did not occur in a vaccum, although you clearly would like to believe that. It is a REACTIONARY consequence of the continuous plundering of an entire people. Terrorism was brought in to the region by Zionist long before Islamic militancy even took root. Begin, Shamir and Sharon, along with many others committed acts of terrorism and barbarism before and after the formation of Israel. In the year of 1947 alone, Zionist militants committed an average of 1 act of terrorism A DAY. This includes the assassination of Count Bernadotte, and the bombing of the King David hotel, both in 1947. In 1948, Jewish forces committed the massacre of Deir Yassin, where 254 men, women and children were raped, killed and pillaged. 750,000.00 Palestinians were uprooted by force from the land "designated" by the UN partition for them to live on, and were not allowed to return BY FORCE. Their villages were immediately destroyed and they were turned in refugees. What is it you call that? NOT a land a grab? By contrast, the PLO wasn't formed until late 50's, the Fatah movement wasn't to be until early 60's. Hamas and Jihad do not appear until early eighties. Who is the instigator? who introduced terrorism as a mean to an end to the region? There are countless other infamies committed by Israeli forces on Civilian Arabs, well before the emergence of any fundamentalists.

In 1967, Israel took what is now the occupied territories in a war IT STARTED, but claimed "self defense". Over 1 million Palestinians find themselves under military occupation SINCE THEN. Despite one resolution after the other, almost all supported by those damm liberal western states, including the US, Israel continues to keep the land, AND installs settlements there. (the only reason the UN has been unable to force Israel to comply with these numerous resolution is that the US continuously vetoed any enforcement measures, for purely domestic political reasons. Contrast that with the US' handling of Iraq).

Now there are about 250,000 settlers living there, with three representatives in Sharon's cabinet, all three pushing publicly for ethnic cleansing of the land. The Palestinians have lived almost 40 years under occupation. Two full generations. It is a miracle that there are not MORE acts of terrorism than what you're seeing now.

In the meantime, Israel has developed nuclear weapons, has had a $9 billion defense budget for more than a decade, heavily subsidized by the US, who also provides it with state of the art weaponary. (by contrast, Syria, the so-called "great" threat to Israel, has a defense budget of less than $300 Million. Their weapons are manufactured in S. Korea and E. European countries)

The canard here is that right wing fanatics, apparently including yourself, portray Israel as a poor little country under an existential threat the resistance of a desperate people, some of whom have turned to fanatism and desperate acts such as suicide bombings, none of which could even remotely come close to be considered an "esistential" threat. In reality, Israel is the biggest bully in the region, and I don't give a flying crap if this bully happens to be a "democracy". In foreign affairs, a state is not judged by its internal composition but by its conduct vis a vis other states. Jordan is not a democracy, but in foreign policy, its ruler, a King, acts more reasonably and sensibly than your precious little democracy with a war criminal for a Prime Minister.

If anything, since the Israeli people proves itself capable of continuously voting into office disgusting governments such as that of Sharon, or Shamir, Begin and Netanyahu before him, than they are showing a weak moral fiber as a people. If democracy = "good" government, than they should be voting for someone who will recognize the misery inflicted by Israel on the Palestinians, and work to have a magnanimous, humanitarian resolution of that conflict. Until then, we "western liberals" will politely ask you to shove that "lecture" about how we should "love" Israel because it is a democracy who has gays in its military (huh?), because we're not about to start "loving" the bully. And no amount of re-fabrication of the truth is going to convince us that Israel is a victim.

With all due respect,

Imad.

Nice!