kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 Uh... Dude. It ended in 1867. That's not 400 years ago. Maybe you got confused on how long it when it on, 400 years that is. And segragation ended a lot later than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by howardstone Dude!, I did get confused, my bad:laugh: http://www.med.virginia.edu/hs-library/historical/apology/http://hsc.virginia.edu/hs-library/historical/apology/report.htmlplease read this. in 1972 the US Public Health Service was still denying African-American males treatment for syphilis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicman Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 and don't even get anyone started on the impact AIDS has had on minorities in this country and how funding for prevention has decreased under the Bush administration. a lot of the monies out there was allocated under Clinton and is not getting renewed under Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardstone Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by vicman i guess now we know what people are racists on this board. My posts are for laughs ONLY! I am NOT a racist at all! I RESPECT EVERYONE'S BELIEFS in life just as long as they don't hurt others in the process! I treat everyone as an individual:) I try to never clump everyone together into groups, this is how problems start in the first place. well.......(Except for all Muslims, F em', F em' ALL! ) ......now you see.. I am only joking.. ha ha:cool: I say RESPECT EVERYONE and they will RESPECT YOU!We all LIVE in this world TOGETHER! MAKE THE BEST!Sincerley,howardstone:hat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Howardstone...Humor is definetly appreciated.... but not when someone is trying to have an intelligent discussion. You confirm ignorance to your side of the arguement so sometimes it's better to just shut your pie hole and save yourself further embarrasment and exposing yourself for what you really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by vicman and don't even get anyone started on the impact AIDS has had on minorities in this country and how funding for prevention has decreased under the Bush administration. a lot of the monies out there was allocated under Clinton and is not getting renewed under Bush. Racism still exists. It's more of an economic racism now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I can see why some people might think affirmative action could be racist...hell I did till the end of my first semester of my MBA. I'm still not 100% sure if I agree with all they're doing, but the gist of it is necessary. Black people have been oppressed (for lack of a better word) for so long that their educational and social status is much much lower compared to white people. Thus, the need for affirmative action, to correct for the injustices of the past. Here let me give you a case from my semester...(can't find the original so I'm going to have to summarize)Before de-segragation, a company has two production lines...one for blacks and one for whites...the total levels of advancement were, say, 20...and one could only advance from the previous level. Now the blacks could only advance to a maximum of level 10, whereas there were no restrictions for the whites. Now, de-segragation comes along, and the company combines the two lines, with no prejudices in advancement...ie, if a black person and white person were in line for advancement to the next level, the senior person (whether black or white) would get the position. HOWEVER, as I'm sure some of you will see, because of the effects of segragation, the BLACKS WERE ALREADY AT A SERIOUS DISADVANTAGE from the get-go since the highest person would only be at level 10. Thus, just the absence of racism is not enough to correct for the effects of it from before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardstone Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 Howardstone...it's better to just shut your pie hole and save yourself further embarrasment and exposing yourself for what you really are. What I really am? ..... your dad? what? my pie whole huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by raver_mania I can see why some people might think affirmative action could be racist...hell I did till the end of my first semester of my MBA. I'm still not 100% sure if I agree with all they're doing, but the gist of it is necessary. Black people have been oppressed (for lack of a better word) for so long that their educational and social status is much much lower compared to white people. Thus, the need for affirmative action, to correct for the injustices of the past. Here let me give you a case from my semester...(can't find the original so I'm going to have to summarize)Before de-segragation, a company has two production lines...one for blacks and one for whites...the total levels of advancement were, say, 20...and one could only advance from the previous level. Now the blacks could only advance to a maximum of level 10, whereas there were no restrictions for the whites. Now, de-segragation comes along, and the company combines the two lines, with no prejudices in advancement...ie, if a black person and white person were in line for advancement to the next level, the senior person (whether black or white) would get the position. HOWEVER, as I'm sure some of you will see, because of the effects of segragation, the BLACKS WERE ALREADY AT A SERIOUS DISADVANTAGE from the get-go since the highest person would only be at level 10. Thus, just the absence of racism is not enough to correct for the effects of it from before. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by raver_mania And what facts do you have to back that up? Most of the slums are still inhabited by black people. Most of the poor in this country are still black. Once those stats change, and everyone is equally represented across the board, then you can say affirmative action is no longer needed. Thats where our beliefs and party lines are in contrast... Affirmative action is not the answer, morality especially children out of wedlock is. I wrote a paper on the issue for a theolgy course and found some intersting stats..Crime Boys born to teen mothers are 2.7 times more likely to end up behind bars than their peers born within a marriage. It is estimated that a 10 percent increase in out of wedlock rates leads to a 17 percent increase in serious violent crime. Social Breakdown in AmericaStudies indicate that more than 70 percent of juveniles in state reform institutions come from fatherless homes. Jennifer E. Marshall, Sanctioning Illegitimacy: Our National Character Is at Stake, Family Research Council. 3/28/97Children born out of wedlock are two to three times less likely to be rated "excellent" in school by their teachers. These students have a tendency to score lower on tests than their other classmates. It is estimated that out of wedlock births cost taxpayers $2.2 billion in welfare and food stamps each year. How in Gods name is Affirmative action going to fix this promblem when children are born to poverty stricken housholds because the fathers aren't taking care of their children and would rather spend their money on Timberland boots and BLING BLING instead of diapers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by mr mahs Thats where our beliefs and party lines are in contrast... Affirmative action is not the answer, morality especially children out of wedlock is. I wrote a paper on the issue for a theolgy course and found some intersting stats..Crime Boys born to teen mothers are 2.7 times more likely to end up behind bars than their peers born within a marriage. It is estimated that a 10 percent increase in out of wedlock rates leads to a 17 percent increase in serious violent crime. Social Breakdown in AmericaStudies indicate that more than 70 percent of juveniles in state reform institutions come from fatherless homes. Jennifer E. Marshall, Sanctioning Illegitimacy: Our National Character Is at Stake, Family Research Council. 3/28/97Children born out of wedlock are two to three times less likely to be rated "excellent" in school by their teachers. These students have a tendency to score lower on tests than their other classmates. It is estimated that out of wedlock births cost taxpayers $2.2 billion in welfare and food stamps each year. How in Gods name is Affirmative action going to fix this promblem when children are born to poverty stricken housholds because the fathers aren't taking care of their children and would rather spend their money on Timberland boots and BLING BLING instead of diapers? thats where the fallacy of your argument lies. Its not a this OR that issue...these things go hand in hand. I'd really like you telling a black dude to go back and raise his family when he can't find a job because he's in a situation he can't be hired because he's black.Whats the use of ensuring that a child has a father if the whole family starves to death because the family can't find a job?There are many single parent households where the parent has taught kids perfect morality and the child has grown to be a great citizen. You have to ensure these kind of people are able to get good jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 Racism still exists. It's more of an economic racism now. WHAT?The CEO of Morgan Stanley is African american as well as countless others succesful african americans who went to school and made a better for themselves. What ever you get in life you earn, nothing is free.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by mr mahs WHAT?The CEO of Morgan Stanley is African american as well as countless others succesful african americans who went to school and made a better for themselves. What ever you get in life you earn, nothing is free.... You still don't understand. Nobody's giving anything for free...you have to have the basic qualifications to fill the job...nobody is handing a street bum a CEO position. Yeah, and tell me what proportion of African Americans of the total african american populace is in a good economic position, compared to the white people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by raver_mania thats where the fallacy of your argument lies. Its not a this OR that issue...these things go hand in hand. I'd really like you telling a black dude to go back and raise his family when he can't find a job because he's in a situation he can't be hired because he's black.Whats the use of ensuring that a child has a father if the whole family starves to death because the family can't find a job?There are many single parent households where the parent has taught kids perfect morality and the child has grown to be a great citizen. You have to ensure these kind of people are able to get good jobs. Fallacy? You're clueless bud, where do you work MARS? I work at a fortune 500 company in NYC where the majority are hard working African Americans.. Stop making excuses for the one that are responsible for their own failure in getting their priorities straight. How can a immigrant come to this country with nothing and become a millionaire but a person who is already a citizen can't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by mr mahs Fallacy? You're clueless bud, where do you work MARS? I work at a fortune 500 company in NYC where the majority are hard working African Americans.. Stop making excuses for the one that are responsible for their own failure in getting their priorities straight. How can a immigrant come to this country with nothing and become a millionaire but a person who is already a citizen can't? Dude, you might work for a fortune 500 - sorry, that doesn't mean shit. If you can't see how the injustices of the recent past is affecting certain aspects of society then you're blind. Yeah, there are lots of African americans...but guess how they got there pal. The majority of the people working in your company are african americans?? Dude, what company is this? What positions do most of them hold? Your statement seems extremely far-fetched but even if its true, your company is not representative of the rest of the job world. Dude, you should know this? I need to throw that question back at you - where the hell have you been, Mars?BTW, I'd like you to comment on my previous post (previous page) about the disparities caused by segragation.PS: What fraction of immigrants with respect to all immigrants came here with nothing and became millionaires? And this does not include skilled workers because they came here with something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by raver_mania Dude, you might work for a fortune 500 - sorry, that doesn't mean shit. If you can't see how the injustices of the recent past is affecting certain aspects of society then you're blind. Yeah, there are lots of African americans...but guess how they got there pal. The majority of the people working in your company are african americans?? Dude, what company is this? What positions do most of them hold? Your statement seems extremely far-fetched but even if its true, your company is not representative of the rest of the job world. Dude, you should know this? I need to throw that question back at you - where the hell have you been, Mars?BTW, I'd like you to comment on my previous post (previous page) about the disparities caused by segragation.PS: What fraction of immigrants with respect to all immigrants came here with nothing and became millionaires? And this does not include skilled workers because they came here with something. You're missing the point. I am no longer for affirmative action because it is no longer needed, you said it your self with theYeah, there are lots of African americans...but guess how they got there pal. comment. When a Colin Powell and Conde Rice can be in a Presidents cabinet and both are self made millionaires, isn't that proof enough that the oppurtunities are indeed out there and it's up to U to make something of yourself?The immigrant stat you are looking for is refelected in our country as a whole,where the majority of our population have come as immigrants and were discriminated against from the Irish to the Italians. Granted the blacks suffred more but it's time to look to the future not the past and stop making excuses for your hardships and do something about it... You attend school right? Anyone who is willing to go to school and are poor enough can receive a education for free due to grants and scholarships. Those who donot take FULL ADVANTAGE would rather worship gangsta rap and basketball players who's is at fault here raver? the govt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by mr mahs You're missing the point. I am no longer for affirmative action because it is no longer needed, you said it your self with theYeah, there are lots of African americans...but guess how they got there pal. comment. When a Colin Powell and Conde Rice can be in a Presidents cabinet and both are self made millionaires, isn't that proof enough that the oppurtunities are indeed out there and it's up to U to make something of yourself?The immigrant stat you are looking for is refelected in our country as a whole,where the majority of our population have come as immigrants and were discriminated against from the Irish to the Italians. Granted the blacks suffred more but it's time to look to the future not the past and stop making excuses for your hardships and do something about it... You attend school right? Anyone who is willing to go to school and are poor enough can receive a education for free due to grants and scholarships. Those who donot take FULL ADVANTAGE would rather worship gangsta rap and basketball players who's is at fault here raver? the govt? I just don't see it where white people are missing out on opportunity because of affirmative action. It just doesn't make sense. Yes, we've come a long way at intergrating our society but the truth is, enough hasn't been done.Do you really think that black people that are unsuccessful in school "worship gansta rap and basketball players". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakbeatz2 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 all affirmative action is now is reverse racism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 Do you really think that black people that are unsuccessful in school "worship gansta rap and basketball players". This sis what I said..--Those who donot take FULL ADVANTAGE, would rather worship gangsta rap and basketball players.. who's at fault here raver? the govt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skince55 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 I just don't see it where white people are missing out on opportunity because of affirmative action.Are you serious? How about when a white person is more qualified than a black person for a job, but the black person recieves the job as a result of affirmative action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by skince55 Are you serious? How about when a white person is more qualified than a black person for a job, but the black person recieves the job as a result of affirmative action. My point is... show me an example of this happening?? When has this happend and to who? We can sit all day and make up stories where people are being overlooked but until we have examples of it, it's all bullshit. I can show you examples where black people are discriminated against all day because no affirmative action policy is in place. I await your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by breakbeatz2 all affirmative action is now is reverse racism Just call it racism. There is no such thing as "reverse racism" I hate that term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattbateman Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 happens all the time no one would know how how would someone know it wouldnt be printed in the papers dumb asspefect example speaking of papers that douche for the NYTplain and simple that guy was not qualified for his position so much so that he had to make up stories for the supposed newspaper of record.he advanced so quickly cause they didnt have any blacks in higher officesasshole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skince55 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 My point is... show me an example of this happening?? When has this happend and to who? We can sit all day and make up stories where people are being overlooked but until we have examples of it, it's all bullshit. I can show you examples where black people are discriminated against all day because no affirmative action policy is in place. I await your response. It happened on a police test.Also, I am not against programs helping those who are need. If affirmative action was based on need as opposed to race I would have no problem with it what so ever. A middle-upperclass black person shouldn't be given an advantage over their white counterpart. Furthermore, I think low income families SHOULD be given extra opportunites, but it should be regardless of race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by skince55 It happened on a police test.Also, I am not against programs helping those who are need. If affirmative action was based on need as opposed to race I would have no problem with it what so ever. A middle-upperclass black person shouldn't be given an advantage over their white counterpart. Furthermore, I think low income families SHOULD be given extra opportunites, but it should be regardless of race. However, what percent of low income families are african american (or minority)? I kinda agree with what you're saying. This way at least you won't be compensating minorities who're already well-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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