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gay marriage legal in NY

bigpoppanils

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siceone Newbie

siceone

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by normalnoises

^^

The same adage the church groups and conservatives used when they tried to ban interracial marriage.

Sorry to bust your judeo christian bubble but in the US we have something known as seperation of church and state protected by the first amendment in case you never heard of such an amendment with such language meaning that laws cannot be passed by church influence so therefore seeing as how this is a democracy not a theorocracy the bible has no bearing on the law. There are more than just one religion in this country so therefore laws cannot be passed to accomodate just one religion forcing it upon others. Just because you have a personal problem with it does not mean you can force your will upon everyone.

Also show me where in the laws where it actually state marriage is a sacrement. That word does not exists in the laws as much as christian, god, jesus, bible or even sacrement is mentioned in our constitution.

Too bad you cannot see this.

Raver good points. well said

mrmahs thanx for proving you fail to have an arguement thus you proved my points.

again you miss the point Im not advocating a ban on marriage Im saying that it is the duty of a religion to say what marriage is rtry readin my posts

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normalnoises Newbie

normalnoises

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by mr mahs

I'm just shocked you know so much about homosexuality and their daily struggle.. WOW I'm impressed you should write a book... "I just wanna be Normal" :laugh: :laugh: Jerkoff I could give a rats ass about this topic or about the people fighting for it, doesn't concern me....Good try

Then why the fuck are you in here. You must be taking interest since you're in this thread simpleton.

First of all idiot, for the record, I am a heterosexual and a Protestant (Christian). You don't have to be a gay to know about gay rights like you don't have to be a junkie to know about heroin.

Second of all, I have friends in very high places, namely in the area of civil and human rights law. Civil and human rights laws you so despise.

Personally jerkoff, I could give a rats ass about what you believe because contrary to your belief it so happens that you still don't have anything conclusive or even reliable to refute anything I have to say on this issue mr. homophobe.

I bet you would prefer a dictatorship where dissenters of your own personal beliefs would be executed the same way the jews and gays were executed under Hitler.

Face it. You lost.

People who deny equal rights to anyone, including gays hate america. Are you one of them too?

Originally posted by siceone

Im sorry to burst your bubble but ALOT of people care what the catholic church does..

Does the catholic bishops care about the lives all the alter boys they screwed by sodomizing them whlst at the same time whined about gay rights and same sex marriage with negative outcry against it?

I do want to give the same legal rights to gay couples as straight couples that's fine I think that if you want to assign rights and benefits to who ever you should be able to. Im telling you that it is not the same it just isn't.

Yup, more proof of who truely hates America. The conservative religious right and extreme right nutjobs namely yourself.

So just because YOU have a personal problem with same sex marriage automatically means you can impose your will on them. Are you one of them "my way is the only way" kind too? What happened to "equal justice to all"? What happened to democracy? Is a theological dictatorship with one man one vote your mojo?

and another thing don't even bring up that you want gay people the burn in hell shit, I love the scare tatics you love the scare tactics you liberals use to try to shame people into agreeing with you. YOU CAN NEVER STICK TO THE ISSUE.

Too scared to hear it? It's people like you that is the reason why the drug and alcohol as well as the suicide rate among gays is high. It's because of the same drivel you do not want to hear and you know what? YOU ARE GONNA HEAR IT ANYWAY because people like you are the same conservative nutjobs who tell them they will "burn in Hell", "God condems you" "Get straight or Die fag" etc... as scare tactics against them so what makes you think we can't confront you with the truth of your self being and the self being of the ilks like yourself? Is the right to free speech too painful for you to handle? Is the truth too hard to handle?

Tell me what is the Legal Difference between Civil unions and marriage. you know there are civil unions for straight people too and the practice has been around for years

you tell me what the difference is between the two besides the word,.

From jamiroguy1:

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CIVIL UNIONS AND MARRIAGE.

1. PORTABILITY. One state will not recognize another couples status.

2. TAX BENEFITS. Civil Unions do not offer the same tax breaks as a married couple.

3. EXCLUSION OF INSURANCE BENEFICIARIES. Most life insurance policies do not pay to civil union couples.

4. Denial of Freedom of Religion.

And Nicely said Jamiroguy.

Poppanils, FYI, Bush is Methodist.

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jamiroguy1 Newbie

jamiroguy1

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by normalnoises

Then why the fuck are you in here. You must be taking interest since you're in this thread simpleton.

First of all idiot, for the record, I am a heterosexual and a Protestant (Christian). You don't have to be a gay to know about gay rights like you don't have to be a junkie to know about heroin.

Second of all, I have friends in very high places, namely in the area of civil and human rights law. Civil and human rights laws you so despise.

Personally jerkoff, I could give a rats ass about what you believe because contrary to your belief it so happens that you still don't have anything conclusive or even reliable to refute anything I have to say on this issue mr. homophobe.

I bet you would prefer a dictatorship where dissenters of your own personal beliefs would be executed the same way the jews and gays were executed under Hitler.

Face it. You lost.

People who deny equal rights to anyone, including gays hate america. Are you one of them too?

Does the catholic bishops care about the lives all the alter boys they screwed by sodomizing them whlst at the same time whined about gay rights and same sex marriage with negative outcry against it?

Yup, more proof of who truely hates America. The conservative religious right and extreme right nutjobs namely yourself.

So just because YOU have a personal problem with same sex marriage automatically means you can impose your will on them. Are you one of them "my way is the only way" kind too? What happened to "equal justice to all"? What happened to democracy? Is a theological dictatorship with one man one vote your mojo?

Too scared to hear it? It's people like you that is the reason why the drug and alcohol as well as the suicide rate among gays is high. It's because of the same drivel you do not want to hear and you know what? YOU ARE GONNA HEAR IT ANYWAY because people like you are the same conservative nutjobs who tell them they will "burn in Hell", "God condems you" "Get straight or Die fag" etc... as scare tactics against them so what makes you think we can't confront you with the truth of your self being and the self being of the ilks like yourself? Is the right to free speech too painful for you to handle? Is the truth too hard to handle?

From jamiroguy1:

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CIVIL UNIONS AND MARRIAGE.

1. PORTABILITY. One state will not recognize another couples status.

2. TAX BENEFITS. Civil Unions do not offer the same tax breaks as a married couple.

3. EXCLUSION OF INSURANCE BENEFICIARIES. Most life insurance policies do not pay to civil union couples.

4. Denial of Freedom of Religion.

And Nicely said Jamiroguy.

Poppanils, FYI, Bush is Methodist.

Bravo. :)

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mr mahs Newbie

mr mahs

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by normalnoises

Then why the fuck are you in here. You must be taking interest since you're in this thread simpleton.

First of all idiot, for the record, I am a heterosexual and a Protestant (Christian). You don't have to be a gay to know about gay rights like you don't have to be a junkie to know about heroin.

Second of all, I have friends in very high places, namely in the area of civil and human rights law. Civil and human rights laws you so despise.

Personally jerkoff, I could give a rats ass about what you believe because contrary to your belief it so happens that you still don't have anything conclusive or even reliable to refute anything I have to say on this issue mr. homophobe.

I bet you would prefer a dictatorship where dissenters of your own personal beliefs would be executed the same way the jews and gays were executed under Hitler.

Face it. You lost.

People who deny equal rights to anyone, including gays hate america. Are you one of them too?

Does the catholic bishops care about the lives all the alter boys they screwed by sodomizing them whlst at the same time whined about gay rights and same sex marriage with negative outcry against it?

Yup, more proof of who truely hates America. The conservative religious right and extreme right nutjobs namely yourself.

So just because YOU have a personal problem with same sex marriage automatically means you can impose your will on them. Are you one of them "my way is the only way" kind too? What happened to "equal justice to all"? What happened to democracy? Is a theological dictatorship with one man one vote your mojo?

Too scared to hear it? It's people like you that is the reason why the drug and alcohol as well as the suicide rate among gays is high. It's because of the same drivel you do not want to hear and you know what? YOU ARE GONNA HEAR IT ANYWAY because people like you are the same conservative nutjobs who tell them they will "burn in Hell", "God condems you" "Get straight or Die fag" etc... as scare tactics against them so what makes you think we can't confront you with the truth of your self being and the self being of the ilks like yourself? Is the right to free speech too painful for you to handle? Is the truth too hard to handle?

From jamiroguy1:

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CIVIL UNIONS AND MARRIAGE.

1. PORTABILITY. One state will not recognize another couples status.

2. TAX BENEFITS. Civil Unions do not offer the same tax breaks as a married couple.

3. EXCLUSION OF INSURANCE BENEFICIARIES. Most life insurance policies do not pay to civil union couples.

4. Denial of Freedom of Religion.

And Nicely said Jamiroguy.

Poppanils, FYI, Bush is Methodist.

How do you feel about only being able to contribute to a homosexual civil rights conversation? Again, blow it out ya ass I could care less what they do, just don't do it under marriage thats how I feel, isn't that protected under the constitution? now fawk off and go bark at someone who gives a shit...

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siceone Newbie

siceone

Posted
Posted

The fact still remains that I belive marriage should remain a religious institution and that if civil unions giver everyone the same rights then homo sexuals should accept it.

the fact still remains a man and a man is not the same as a man and a woman.

the fact remains that you show how much you hate christians and american values.

The fact remains how you hurl insults and can't stay on the damn topic.

The fact remains that you still suck, you never have any coherent points, and NO ONE REASONABLE AGREES with you.

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normalnoises Newbie

normalnoises

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by bigpoppanils

but it is OK to hate homosexuals.

i get it now! :idea:

Yup. Because the bible says so. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mr mahs

How do you feel about only being able to contribute to a homosexual civil rights conversation?

To be honest. I feel it's great to be able to contribute to this debate and kick the tar out of the likes of you and sicelost and stuff your shit back up your cunts.

Again, blow it out ya ass I could care less what they do, just don't do it under marriage thats how I feel, isn't that protected under the constitution?

The first and fourteenth amendments in all technicalities do.

  • Amendment I
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
  • Amendment XIV
    Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.
    Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
    Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
    Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

That should be enough to shoot down a ban on gay marriage and the FMA by congress (and the courts).

The gay marriage amendment that Bush wants in the Constitution requires a 2/3rd majority of the states for approval and from what I heard on the news today was Congress is in no rush to debate the issue meaning this issue can go on for years and by that time Bush and his croies will be gone and they'll be different people in Congress and in the courts by then. So if Congress isn't in much hurry to pass this along, then it's highly unlikely you'll ever see that 2/3 majority occur meaning you can forget about an amendment banning gay marriage in that document that says, WE THE PEOPLE!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20040225/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_gay_marriage

If this amendment is put into our Constitution, it totally contradicts what the first and fourteenth amendments to the Bill of Rights and the very same Constitution, gives us: the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. By banning gay people from marrying, we are taking away their liberties and their pursuit of happiness and you know it. And that is NOT fair, that is NOT what this country stands for. There is absolutely no good reason whatsoever why this amendment should even be considered.

Why is it you conservatives run your mouths off saying we have, equal rights to all citizens and the persuit of happiness then contridict yourselves by saying gays don't deserve the same rights as "normal" people? Please tell me why aren't they allowed to enjoy the same equal rights and the persuit of happiness as everyone else instead of being considered second class citizens? Since when do your personal feelings warrant forcing your will on gays and denying the rights for gays to enjoy the same equal rights and the persuit of happiness everyone else enjoy? What makes you so much better than them?

So if protecting equal rights for EVERYONE gets you mad, what makes you happy?

now fawk off and go bark at someone who gives a shit...

Obviously you do give a shit. You're in here, right?

Originally posted by Siceone

the fact remains that you show how much you hate christians and american values.

The fact is... I'm a christian. How can I hate a religion that I am?

Please enlighten me, if protecting the equal rights and the persuit of happiness for ALL to enjoy is hating American values, then what is loving American values?

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£ddie Newbie

£ddie

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by normalnoises

[*]Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That should be enough to shoot down a ban on gay marriage and the FMA by congress (and the courts).

The privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment has pretty much been made irrelevant since 1873. Its application is very limited in protecting the rights of federal citizenship such as voting and interstate travel. It's got nothing to do with marriage.

As far the equal protection clause, in order for that argument to work, gays would have to be deemed by the Supreme Court a suspect class like blacks, or a quasi-suspect class like women. They are neither, which means that a state can discriminate legally based on sexual orientation as long as it has a rational basis for doing so. "Rational basis" scrutiny is the lowest threshold for discrimination to pass constitutional muster. There's only one case thus far where the court invalidated a statute discriminatory against gays based on equal protection grounds.

Certain things would have to happen for gay marriage to be a federally protected right.

-The Supreme Court would have to recognize that gays are a suspect class or a quasi-suspect class, OR

-The Supreme Court would have to declare that no state could have a rational basis for enacting laws that limit marriage to a union between a man and a woman, OR

-The Supreme Court would have to recognize marriage as a fundamental right of gays

None of these things are likely to happen given previous court decisions and the makeup of the court, so this will likely be a state-by-state issue for years to come.

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siceone Newbie

siceone

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by £ddie

The privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment has pretty much been made irrelevant since 1873. Its application is very limited in protecting the rights of federal citizenship such as voting and interstate travel. It's got nothing to do with marriage.

As far the equal protection clause, in order for that argument to work, gays would have to be deemed by the Supreme Court a suspect class like blacks, or a quasi-suspect class like women. They are neither, which means that a state can discriminate legally based on sexual orientation as long as it has a rational basis for doing so. "Rational basis" scrutiny is the lowest threshold for discrimination to pass constitutional muster. There's only one case thus far where the court invalidated a statute discriminatory against gays based on equal protection grounds.

Certain things would have to happen for gay marriage to be a federally protected right.

-The Supreme Court would have to recognize that gays are a suspect class or a quasi-suspect class, OR

-The Supreme Court would have to declare that no state could have a rational basis for enacting laws that limit marriage to a union between a man and a woman, OR

-The Supreme Court would have to recognize marriage as a fundamental right of gays

None of these things are likely to happen given previous court decisions and the makeup of the court, so this will likely be a state-by-state issue for years to come.

Not fair I am learning this right now.. we just started equal protection I wanted to make this argument

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xpyrate Newbie

xpyrate

Posted
Posted

If theyre gonna let gays get married whats next? are they gonna let a brother and sister get married? what if i truly love my dog with all my heart and soul? could i marry my dog? What if three people really trully love each other? they are all the same thing. point of fact. dont try and tell me about birth defects because that is just an excuse to cover your anti-incest bigotry. if we let gays get married it will degrade the name of marriage just as much as if they were to let someone marry his/her dog.

incest = gay = beastiality = polygamy ... on a pure moral scale ... so if you're gonna say gay marriage is OK then you're just gonna hafta concede to the rest ... if not then at least concede to being a hypocrite :)

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