American in Iraq Beheaded by Militants

[sobeton]

Since we are discussing the media and such. You folks should take some time to read the official military report, that was done before the pictures where leaked. It’s very lengthy, but very informative. Also note the dates on this report . It is the report done by U.S. Army General Taguba who testified on "The Hill " today.

U.S. military's Taguba report on Iraq prisoner abuse

[lyrik]

Someone was questioning ... if we are trying to lead a region with democracy .. and we are its bigger ambassadors ... are we prepared to go to war in the internet ages?

With the reasoning of war is war ... and us being the ones throwing the first stone for the first time ... and us believing we are right .. and is having the military power to out do ... are we a military society now? What happened to democracy .. its institutions .. and its moral? ... the concept we are exporting to the region?

Note: I'm confronting your position, not the governments. ^^^^

Don't forget something important ... the pics only prove wrong doing. Its damage is the impression in the Ara world. But ... as Joe mentioned above, the world has its own journalists covering ... Arab media ... etc. .. Things we don't see in US TV. We have to be prepared for war ... as a leader in the world. We have the moral responsability. We are capable of doing so.

Lets not lose perspective.

Yes you're right there are other media sources that have no obligation or ties to America or Americans...the fact is ours leaked the story first and who really knows when or if those outside sources would have gained the knowledge we had. I don't think we threw the first stone...911 came along before this war (and sadams ties to those terrorist networks are very suspect), but Sadam's own crimes against humanity should have been reason enough to remove him and the whole regime. Its time we do put things in perspective we are not living in the dark ages anymore.....its time we start to put the idea that the wolrd is such a large place behind us because communication has put that idea to rest already. We need to work towards world unity and peace and start to remove ancient and tyranical regimes by any means needed...obviously they are not going to leave when asked...as Sadam was asked before we threw that first stone to commence this war. This war is only the beginning and we need to realize there is no better time to make the world safe for democracy than now...this is not going to get done with cozy peace talks where we hand over billions of dollars countries to ease their so called burdens, only to have them turn around and start building weapons programs.

[obby]

I know this is long people but I feel it is worth my time writing.

I agree with everyone that the press has every right to publish facts but many have seemed to misinterpret my point. Was the press irresponsible in releasing it on 60 minutes????? 100% YES!!!!!! If they want to be FAIR like everyone says they are, then show ALL OF IT! OUR DEAD AND ABUSED ALONG W/ the enemies. These people being ridiculed were not cub scouts. They were enemy fighters captured trying to kill Americans. Perspective is KEY! So, yes,,I'm all for the release of everything,,,,,,BUT SHOW IT ALL!!! Not just the Iraqi's. Show the American and coalition dead. THAT'S FAIR!

So, NOW WHAT? Do we remove this cancer or do we just "talk" about removing them? It's about time this country stops making excuses for an enemy which wants us all dead.

We had young, low level enlisted men and women in charge of interrogating and torture? How that makes sense to anyone is insane. To the critics maybe, but their not quite objective are they? England was not stationed at the prison. She was visiting her boyfriend (the guy w/ the gloves) who just so happened to have knocked her up. She's pregnant now. How can she claim she was following orders if she was not even assigned to that prison? A little too early to tell,,,,, Anyway.............makes for interesting radio.

Phil Hendry said something you might find interesting. He said: Imagine you lived a life w/ a poor diet. Later in life you learn you developed cancer due to years of a poor diet. Now, what do you do?

(a) Say "damn it, I've got cancer & it's all my fault. I deserve death. I'm just going to let this cancer take it's course."

( Say "damn it, I've got cancer & I want to live. I will have this cancer removed and fight it because I will not let this cancer devour me."

Same logic applies to UBL & Saddam. Did we play a big part in creating these monsters? Guilty!

Did we supply UBL weapons to fight the Russians? Guilty!

Did we supply Saddam w/ weapons to fight Iran? Guilty!

OKAY, NOW WHAT? Do we just bitch and cry? Rip each other apart in the press? You going to deal w/ the problem or let it fester? After 9/11 we learned terrorist were everywhere. They were entrenched in our country using charities for funding, going to our schools, recruiting from our prisons, etc.... Not to mention them being on practically every continent on earth. Given what happened on 9/11, the extent of this terrorist network & the impact it had on our economy and way of life, WHAT NOW?

We're taking the fight to them. The political psycho-babble everyone is spewing is just that, PSYCHO-BABBLE.

If in the name of THE TRUTH, we are shown Iraqi prisoner abuse, then in fairness, America NEEDS to be shown the burnt bodies hanging from the bridge, the dead soldiers from Jessica Lynch's unit who's bodies were briefly shown w/ bullet holes in their head and their pants pulled down to their ankles, the new video of this guy being beheaded needs to be shown in it's entirety. Same for Daniel Pearl (WSJ reporter). That is, if it's THE TRUTH that we're after.

I don't blame America. No nation has sacrificed more of it's citizens for the freedom of others around the world. All the critics seem stuck on a grassy knoll of theories, half-truths and all come to the same conclusion, IT'S ALL OUR FAULT,,,MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA.................................Those folks should try using perspective. That to me is pathetic people! We can "talk" about dealing w/ terrorist while they plot our destruction or we can take the scrap to them. The bigger picture is not pretty. It's a long war against an enemy who wants us ALL dead. That's the reality!!!!! How will history judge our generation? Wusses or Hero's?

Sorry for the rant,,,,,,,,,that video yesterday just FUCKIN PISSED ME OFF!

PS....I'm taking off tonight,,,,,,,destination: Costa Rica. I'll catch a few waves for everyone.

Take Care.

PURA VIDA!

___________________________________________________

Here is a reply e-mail sent to me by my Aunt who servered our Country proudly. I decided to write to her to help vent my frustrations. Her response definetlly helped me.

"Hi Obby,

Your dad forwarded your email to me and I am so glad he did. I totally agree with everything you had to say. Your dad and I served in the military very proudly and I know, I do not care for these sideline idiots griping and complaining.

Your dad fought in Vietnam and came home to unpleasant homecomings. In fact all Vietnam Vets were treated so poorly. While I served overseas as well and I saw things that I wish never to repeat of our enemies actions.

You are right, there was no outrage when our troops and civilians were killed and dragged through the streets. There was no outrage for any American that was kidnapped, tortured and/or killed by our enemy. How about all those men held for over a year in Iran? How about our POW's who suffered in the famous Hanoi Hilton? I could go on and one.

I belong to a unit called the WAVES, women who served in the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard (mainly seagoing) although the Army is always accepted. I am going to forward a letter from one of these ladies to you to forward to your brother. Keep in mind this lady fought in WWII, and in her 80's. These are tough women.

Keep the faith, both of you and remember that truth and justice, honesty and bravery, will prevail.

Here is the letter I mentioned in my email. It is a email. More people need to read this.

Aunt Sandy

Disabled Veteran

USCGR

_________________________________________

The military today is an all or nothing proposition -- you're either in it, and fully in it, or you don't belong.

Training is -- and isn't integrated. Basic training is still by gender. Infantry and combat arms training is all men. Women train in separate platoons for basic training -- but they take the SAME training their male counterparts in the next platoon take, and some of it is together. Once out of basic training, most advanced and skill-specific training (less infantry, armor and that sort of thing) is integrated. It is critical to success that men and women who will be assigned together train together.

In the military today there are just soldiers, sailors, airmen, etc. The days when a woman could sit back in her uniform of skirt, jacket, heels, and be clean and cool while the battle raged elsewhere is long gone. The military (all of the military) cannot afford to have soldiers who can't be placed in harms way.

Reserve forces are being used a great deal in Iraq and Afghanistan. Reserve and Guard forces are made up of wonderful men and women. But they do not have the training, either the intensity or the day-in and day-out training that the regular forces have. Is it fair to call on them to take a full load? Personally, I don't think so. They need a very considerable "prep" period before they can be deployed. Do they get this work-up? I don't know. That's one of the questions to be answered.

What are the options? Do we need a larger force? Should only men deploy? Should we tell women that they can't serve? Reinstitute the male-only draft?

Women have worked long and hard to have almost equal opportunity in the military, proving time and time again that they could do the job -- any job -- and that they were willing to do so. You ladies set the standard -- the young women today typically don't have a clue what you went through, and most don't have any idea that it wasn't always this way, but turning the clock back is somewhere between impossible and very hard.

The events in the prison are regrettable, the perpetrators must be held to account, and the policy makers who instituted this regime must be held to account. What really happened? How did it come about? Who's to blame? These are among the questions that need to be answered -- sooner rather than later. How did things get so off track? Where was the command presence?

You will know that mistreatment of prisoners is as ancient as warfare -- the Japanese brutally murdered, starved, and tortured millions of Chinese, tens of thousands of Americans, and many other ethnic groups in their rampage from the 1930s through 1945. According to their code anyone who surrendered rather than commit suicide suffered dishonor. As the war drew to an end, they were systematically murdering, completely in cold blood, American POWs. The daring raid by the 6th Rangers on Luzon was a successful last ditch effort to rescue hundreds of pathetically and seriously ill Americans who were within days of being killed. The Vietnamese -- both north and south -- kept each others prisoners under brutal, inhuman conditions.

What is so terrible about this is that we went into Saddam's prison, where torture was the rule of the day, and used these very methods on our prisoners. There is a fine line between "encouraging" a prisoner to cooperate and brutalizing him. We do need to be clear on one thing: prisoners don't talk when you welcome them to the prison, and give them every convenience. The Iraqis (or whoever is fighting us) have not been humanitarian to prisoners that they've taken -- witness the dancing in the street on the corpses of American contractors.

It is profoundly sad that this is, even at best, an uneven fight. We mostly play by rules; the other side has no rules and simply sees this as weakness. Many want the President Bush to apologize -- I'm not among them. These incidents are regrettable, and action should be taken, but I don't think the president should apologize.

Another point of view. The Arabs think we're a bunch of sissies anyway. This reinforces that -- and unfortunately guarantees them an even readier base of recruits. That is really sad. The fixation in our press on anything unpleasant, bad, derogatory, etc. means that our view of events is badly skewed.

Believe it or not, this is not typical behavior. In the next few days you're going to hear a lot of people pop up and say we did this all the time in [fill in the blank]. If you take most of what you read and discard it, you'll be down to the kernel of truth.

The overwhelming majority of our troops are doing a good job. It will, however, take many years to repair the 30 years of damage done by Saddam. It won't be done in a year or even ten years.

If you watched the hearings you heard Senator Lieberman, not noted for being a Bush supporter, tell Secretary Rumsfled that we needed to keep this in perspective. I agree. Stop fixating -- get to the bottom of it, and let's move on!

Pat J.

WAVES

[o0djfx0o]

I just had a bit of a strange thought...

What if these things were done on purpose...from orders up high...leaked on purpose from up high and made as a big scandal from up high....for the following reason:

What if this was all done in an effort to "smoke out" terrorists...knwoing that they love to initiate revenge tactics and whatnot...perhpas all things were done to try and have terrorists expose themselves and make themselves more vulnerable to attack and capture...as the June deadline for transfer of power approaches? Shit like this would make extremists absolutely fume with hate and desire to respond, making them vulnerable to being loacted and dealt with. Interesting tactic...it just seems so obvious that shit like what happened in that prison would get out and cause a huge uproar. Our guys are already over there and our defenses are already heightened...why the fuck not try and royally piss them off and get 'em to reveal themselves?

Just a thought.

[obby]

For those of you who have not seen the video in full. Here it is.

Makes me want to cry. God bless Nick Berg and his family. No parent should EVER have to go through such grief. This just verifies the type of people who we are dealing with. The type of people that some of us find time to defend for some reason.

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05122004-1.shtml

[blondboheme]

i have a great idea

i think we should pull out of iraq virtually overnight while everyone is sleeping and pretend the whole thing never happened. deny deny deny!!! we can tell the iraqi people that it was actually a really big earthquake that destroyed their government and most of their country. they may be a bit confused and reluctant at first, but if we just repeat the lies long enough they will have to believe us eventually. as for us, well once we get bush out of office we can pretend the whole thing never happened too!

then everyone will be happy, and even if they aren't, those of us in denial can at least pretend that everyone is happy, right?!?!?!?

[funketeer]

i have a great idea

i think we should pull out of iraq virtually overnight while everyone is sleeping and pretend the whole thing never happened. then everyone will be happy, and even if they aren't, those of us in denial can at least pretend that everyone is happy, right?!?!?!?

Let's bomb them with prozac!

[lyrik]

I know this is long people but I feel it is worth my time writing.

I agree with everyone that the press has every right to publish facts but many have seemed to misinterpret my point. Was the press irresponsible in releasing it on 60 minutes????? 100% YES!!!!!! If they want to be FAIR like everyone says they are, then show ALL OF IT! OUR DEAD AND ABUSED ALONG W/ the enemies. These people being ridiculed were not cub scouts. They were enemy fighters captured trying to kill Americans. Perspective is KEY! So, yes,,I'm all for the release of everything,,,,,,BUT SHOW IT ALL!!! Not just the Iraqi's. Show the American and coalition dead. THAT'S FAIR!

So, NOW WHAT? Do we remove this cancer or do we just "talk" about removing them? It's about time this country stops making excuses for an enemy which wants us all dead.

We had young, low level enlisted men and women in charge of interrogating and torture? How that makes sense to anyone is insane. To the critics maybe, but their not quite objective are they? England was not stationed at the prison. She was visiting her boyfriend (the guy w/ the gloves) who just so happened to have knocked her up. She's pregnant now. How can she claim she was following orders if she was not even assigned to that prison? A little too early to tell,,,,, Anyway.............makes for interesting radio.

Phil Hendry said something you might find interesting. He said: Imagine you lived a life w/ a poor diet. Later in life you learn you developed cancer due to years of a poor diet. Now, what do you do?

(a) Say "damn it, I've got cancer & it's all my fault. I deserve death. I'm just going to let this cancer take it's course."

( Say "damn it, I've got cancer & I want to live. I will have this cancer removed and fight it because I will not let this cancer devour me."

Same logic applies to UBL & Saddam. Did we play a big part in creating these monsters? Guilty!

Did we supply UBL weapons to fight the Russians? Guilty!

Did we supply Saddam w/ weapons to fight Iran? Guilty!

OKAY, NOW WHAT? Do we just bitch and cry? Rip each other apart in the press? You going to deal w/ the problem or let it fester? After 9/11 we learned terrorist were everywhere. They were entrenched in our country using charities for funding, going to our schools, recruiting from our prisons, etc.... Not to mention them being on practically every continent on earth. Given what happened on 9/11, the extent of this terrorist network & the impact it had on our economy and way of life, WHAT NOW?

We're taking the fight to them. The political psycho-babble everyone is spewing is just that, PSYCHO-BABBLE.

If in the name of THE TRUTH, we are shown Iraqi prisoner abuse, then in fairness, America NEEDS to be shown the burnt bodies hanging from the bridge, the dead soldiers from Jessica Lynch's unit who's bodies were briefly shown w/ bullet holes in their head and their pants pulled down to their ankles, the new video of this guy being beheaded needs to be shown in it's entirety. Same for Daniel Pearl (WSJ reporter). That is, if it's THE TRUTH that we're after.

I don't blame America. No nation has sacrificed more of it's citizens for the freedom of others around the world. All the critics seem stuck on a grassy knoll of theories, half-truths and all come to the same conclusion, IT'S ALL OUR FAULT,,,MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA.................................Those folks should try using perspective. That to me is pathetic people! We can "talk" about dealing w/ terrorist while they plot our destruction or we can take the scrap to them. The bigger picture is not pretty. It's a long war against an enemy who wants us ALL dead. That's the reality!!!!! How will history judge our generation? Wusses or Hero's?

Sorry for the rant,,,,,,,,,that video yesterday just FUCKIN PISSED ME OFF!

PS....I'm taking off tonight,,,,,,,destination: Costa Rica. I'll catch a few waves for everyone.

Take Care.

PURA VIDA!

___________________________________________________

Here is a reply e-mail sent to me by my Aunt who servered our Country proudly. I decided to write to her to help vent my frustrations. Her response definetlly helped me.

"Hi Obby,

Your dad forwarded your email to me and I am so glad he did. I totally agree with everything you had to say. Your dad and I served in the military very proudly and I know, I do not care for these sideline idiots griping and complaining.

Your dad fought in Vietnam and came home to unpleasant homecomings. In fact all Vietnam Vets were treated so poorly. While I served overseas as well and I saw things that I wish never to repeat of our enemies actions.

You are right, there was no outrage when our troops and civilians were killed and dragged through the streets. There was no outrage for any American that was kidnapped, tortured and/or killed by our enemy. How about all those men held for over a year in Iran? How about our POW's who suffered in the famous Hanoi Hilton? I could go on and one.

I belong to a unit called the WAVES, women who served in the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard (mainly seagoing) although the Army is always accepted. I am going to forward a letter from one of these ladies to you to forward to your brother. Keep in mind this lady fought in WWII, and in her 80's. These are tough women.

Keep the faith, both of you and remember that truth and justice, honesty and bravery, will prevail.

Here is the letter I mentioned in my email. It is a email. More people need to read this.

Aunt Sandy

Disabled Veteran

USCGR

_________________________________________

The military today is an all or nothing proposition -- you're either in it, and fully in it, or you don't belong.

Training is -- and isn't integrated. Basic training is still by gender. Infantry and combat arms training is all men. Women train in separate platoons for basic training -- but they take the SAME training their male counterparts in the next platoon take, and some of it is together. Once out of basic training, most advanced and skill-specific training (less infantry, armor and that sort of thing) is integrated. It is critical to success that men and women who will be assigned together train together.

In the military today there are just soldiers, sailors, airmen, etc. The days when a woman could sit back in her uniform of skirt, jacket, heels, and be clean and cool while the battle raged elsewhere is long gone. The military (all of the military) cannot afford to have soldiers who can't be placed in harms way.

Reserve forces are being used a great deal in Iraq and Afghanistan. Reserve and Guard forces are made up of wonderful men and women. But they do not have the training, either the intensity or the day-in and day-out training that the regular forces have. Is it fair to call on them to take a full load? Personally, I don't think so. They need a very considerable "prep" period before they can be deployed. Do they get this work-up? I don't know. That's one of the questions to be answered.

What are the options? Do we need a larger force? Should only men deploy? Should we tell women that they can't serve? Reinstitute the male-only draft?

Women have worked long and hard to have almost equal opportunity in the military, proving time and time again that they could do the job -- any job -- and that they were willing to do so. You ladies set the standard -- the young women today typically don't have a clue what you went through, and most don't have any idea that it wasn't always this way, but turning the clock back is somewhere between impossible and very hard.

The events in the prison are regrettable, the perpetrators must be held to account, and the policy makers who instituted this regime must be held to account. What really happened? How did it come about? Who's to blame? These are among the questions that need to be answered -- sooner rather than later. How did things get so off track? Where was the command presence?

You will know that mistreatment of prisoners is as ancient as warfare -- the Japanese brutally murdered, starved, and tortured millions of Chinese, tens of thousands of Americans, and many other ethnic groups in their rampage from the 1930s through 1945. According to their code anyone who surrendered rather than commit suicide suffered dishonor. As the war drew to an end, they were systematically murdering, completely in cold blood, American POWs. The daring raid by the 6th Rangers on Luzon was a successful last ditch effort to rescue hundreds of pathetically and seriously ill Americans who were within days of being killed. The Vietnamese -- both north and south -- kept each others prisoners under brutal, inhuman conditions.

What is so terrible about this is that we went into Saddam's prison, where torture was the rule of the day, and used these very methods on our prisoners. There is a fine line between "encouraging" a prisoner to cooperate and brutalizing him. We do need to be clear on one thing: prisoners don't talk when you welcome them to the prison, and give them every convenience. The Iraqis (or whoever is fighting us) have not been humanitarian to prisoners that they've taken -- witness the dancing in the street on the corpses of American contractors.

It is profoundly sad that this is, even at best, an uneven fight. We mostly play by rules; the other side has no rules and simply sees this as weakness. Many want the President Bush to apologize -- I'm not among them. These incidents are regrettable, and action should be taken, but I don't think the president should apologize.

Another point of view. The Arabs think we're a bunch of sissies anyway. This reinforces that -- and unfortunately guarantees them an even readier base of recruits. That is really sad. The fixation in our press on anything unpleasant, bad, derogatory, etc. means that our view of events is badly skewed.

Believe it or not, this is not typical behavior. In the next few days you're going to hear a lot of people pop up and say we did this all the time in [fill in the blank]. If you take most of what you read and discard it, you'll be down to the kernel of truth.

The overwhelming majority of our troops are doing a good job. It will, however, take many years to repair the 30 years of damage done by Saddam. It won't be done in a year or even ten years.

If you watched the hearings you heard Senator Lieberman, not noted for being a Bush supporter, tell Secretary Rumsfled that we needed to keep this in perspective. I agree. Stop fixating -- get to the bottom of it, and let's move on!

Pat J.

WAVES

Great post Obby...we can all talk this and that but when you have the perspective of people that have been through this first hand it always makes a better affirmation of the point we are trying to get across. These people that were tortured were murders & rapists trying to kill any American or allied presence they could, as well as anyone that supported those those efforts. Its doesn't excuse what those soldiers they did, but like you say perspective is key. People really can't say 100% how they would act being placed in the same situation where you are entrenched in war being confronted with guerilla tactics....seeing your fellow Americans/Soldiers/Friends/Family bodies burnt and grossly mutilated dragged through the streets for the ridicule of these animals. It almost seems like the American soldiers may have adopted an eye for an eye mentality to combat an enemy that knows nothing but the philosphy. It shouldn't have been done the way they did this...but something that was said in your post rings so true. Do people really believe that these key figures that were captured were just gonna spill all the info that had on the now defunct regime....come on. For these murders I do agree 100% that some type of hard interrogation was needed...it shouldn't have been what these soldiers did....but if think that people were going to talk by just placing them in a room with one spot light fixed on them for hours and hours on end like something you would see in a cop movie then we as Americans are very naive. Extreme circumstances require extreme measures to deal with them. These people should have been and still should be dealt with on the very outskirts of the geneva convention and those limits need to be pushed because these people are not your everyday criminal they have been programmed since birth to resist this type of shit, with the major thing that they covet the most being their religion....in my opinion I think the soldiers may have thought that to be their only weakness after other avenues of interrogation were tried and failed. Infringe upon the only thing they hold sacred and strike fear that they won't be able to join Allah and all the virgins promised through jihad and death and you may find them a little more reseptive to talking. Its just a thought, but it seems logical to attack the only ideal that these people have...God knows that death doesn't scare them...the capture and imprisonment of family and friends, they couldn't care less about....but making them unclean in the eyes of Allah...now thats something that will hit them hard. I still think there could have been other ways of dealing with these people.....but for those of us that are not there first hand we really will never know how things really go down.

[obby]

i have a great idea

i think we should pull out of iraq virtually overnight while everyone is sleeping and pretend the whole thing never happened. deny deny deny!!! we can tell the iraqi people that it was actually a really big earthquake that destroyed their government and most of their country. they may be a bit confused and reluctant at first, but if we just repeat the lies long enough they will have to believe us eventually. as for us, well once we get bush out of office we can pretend the whole thing never happened too!

then everyone will be happy, and even if they aren't, those of us in denial can at least pretend that everyone is happy, right?!?!?!?

Ditto!

I see you got my point. Sarcastically put, but on point!

That perfectly illustrates the misguided logic from the left............it's so sad it takes videos like this one and 9/11 for liberals to get it.

[funketeer]

a soldier should always remain calm as to avoid losing his head

[lyrik]

a soldier should always remain calm as to avoid losing his head

WORST POST I HAVE EVER READ!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF! THAT GUY WASN'T A SOLDIER...HE WAS JUST A CABLE GUY...COME ON FUNK.

[obby]

a soldier should always remain calm as to avoid losing his head

Thanks pathetic FUNK.

Hope it made you feel good to write that.

[sobeton]

so back to square one. once we table the political propaganda, finger pointing, denial,tongue-in-cheek rhetoric , etc . we are left with the very basic questions. where do we go from here? what will we do as a country to address these issues, move forward, and rise above this? right now all I see is a lot of unanswered questions, and spinning of wheels.. we can do better then this; or at least I hope so..

[funketeer]

WORST POST I HAVE EVER READ!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF! THAT GUY WASN'T A SOLDIER...HE WAS JUST A CABLE GUY...COME ON FUNK.

[funketeer]

Thanks pathetic FUNK.

Hope it made you feel good to write that.

actually, no...it didn't...my advise to anyone who wants to keep his head on his shoulders is to stay the fuck away from Iraq...that's my fucking point!

If you are an american and you are wondering the streets of Iraq...I mean, expect anything, you know what I mean?

All this propaganda is jibba-jabba!!! If the crazy idea that we do get the facts of what is really is going on in Iraq is going through any of your nave little heads...please, step back and reason for a moment...no way in the world are we able to know what's really going.

beheaded cableman? what the fuck is a cableman doing in Iraq???

Is that the bullshit "liberation" we are supposedly bringing to Iraq??? Cinemax and HBO???

One thing is to have an opinion and another whole different story is unravel in a frenetic justice fueled speech of dispair.

[lyrik]

actually, no...it didn't...my advise to anyone who wants to keep his head on his shoulders is to stay the fuck away from Iraq...that's my fucking point!

If you are an american and you are wondering the streets of Iraq...I mean, expect anything, you know what I mean?

All this propaganda is jibba-jabba!!! If the crazy idea that we do get the facts of what is really is going on in Iraq is going through any of your nave little heads...please, step back and reason for a moment...no way in the world are we able to know what's really going.

beheaded cableman? what the fuck is a cableman doing in Iraq???

Is that the bullshit "liberation" we are supposedly bringing to Iraq??? Cinemax and HBO???

One thing is to have an opinion and another whole different story is unravel in a frenetic justice fueled speech of dispair.

He was contractor that held job of basically a cable man in the united states. What he was doing was providing a service to his country by obviously using the skills of the trade he learned at home to build up the infrastructure of Iraq. I highly doubt he was wandering around the streets and yes he knew what dangers lie over there when he accepted the task at hand...so that makes it alright for him die....and for jokes to be made in light of what happened to him. Sure we don't know the whole story of all things going on over there, but the video tells enough of the story of this one man to demand respect for what he went through. If its advise you wanted to give I am sure you could have chosen your words a little bit more wisely, but instead you took the opportunity to try and gain some laughs...which usually happens with your posts because for the most part they are funny. War, Iraq and all other bullshit aside...and lets just think about the guy that had to die in that fashion and for his family to actaully be witness to the brutal killing through that video....the joke was way out of line, how would you feel if someone was making what they thought was clever pun out of the death of one your family members?

People bitch when we don't do enough and bitch when we do too much....then bitch that nobody wants to get involved, but then contradict themselves when people try to lend a hand. This guy was over there trying to make a difference...politics aside he was working in a foreign land to try and make the future lives of its people much better than what they have been accostumed to for the last 30+ years. Come on that guy deserves more than to be the punch line of a joke.

[eKiTeL]

http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid=1430

[marcodavalos]

Great posts Obby and Lyrik. One observation ... POWs in Iraq are not all terrorists. At least by definition. A nationalist fighting a foreign occupation can't be categorized necessarily as a terrorist.

When the media describes "pockets of resistance", are these terrorists? Can you guys help me understand your view of what those are?

About Berg ... his detention ... release ... capture and brutal killing.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/index.html

An article in BBC UK ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3705931.stm

[digital7]

I just saw the video this morning and Im completely OUTRAGED! .. It's sad to think how humanity is regressing instead of progressing. HOW THE FUCK can there be so much hate and cruelty in this world.. truely horrifiying and heartbreaking

[digital7]

www.newsfilter.org/beheading.htm

[lyrik]

Great posts Obby and Lyrik. One observation ... POWs in Iraq are not all terrorists. At least by definition. A nationalist fighting a foreign occupation can't be categorized necessarily as a terrorist.

When the media describes "pockets of resistance", are these terrorists? Can you guys help me understand your view of what those are?

About Berg ... his detention ... release ... capture and brutal killing.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/index.html

An article in BBC UK ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3705931.stm

My opinion on what those people exactly are is as follows:

While the current regime was intact they were nationalist soldiers fighting under the direction of their leader Sadam and for the preservation of their so called way of life. The moment that regime was toppled and the governement was removed those still fighting and those that continue to fight to this day became terrorists (IMO) in their own country because they are not following any established government any longer and are working to undermine any progress by committing guerilla type acts of violence without regard to loss of life whether it be Iraqi, American or coalition. The ones captured during the war may not be able to be classified as terrrorists by the usual definition, but make no mistake...they are responsible for promoting terror and terrorist acts of the worst kind. I think the mass graves, rapes and countless other atrocities will account for their terrorist nature among their own people.

[funketeer]

He was contractor that held job of basically a cable man in the united states. What he was doing was providing a service to his country by obviously using the skills of the trade he learned at home to build up the infrastructure of Iraq. I highly doubt he was wandering around the streets and yes he knew what dangers lie over there when he accepted the task at hand...so that makes it alright for him die....and for jokes to be made in light of what happened to him. Come on that guy deserves more than to be the punch line of a joke.

Yo! Yo! Yo! War is dangerous, him being killed is not an accident nor a tragedy...all americans in Iraq are subject to the danger of being killed at any moment...so...what the fuck are they doing there???

Iraq is not going to become a united states colony...so...the whole fucking thing is nothing but a waste of time, money and lives.

Vietnam # 2 (The Bullshit Strikes Back)

[sobeton]

actually, no...it didn't...my advise to anyone who wants to keep his head on his shoulders is to stay the fuck away from Iraq...that's my fucking point!

If you are an american and you are wondering the streets of Iraq...I mean, expect anything, you know what I mean?

All this propaganda is jibba-jabba!!! If the crazy idea that we do get the facts of what is really is going on in Iraq is going through any of your nave little heads...please, step back and reason for a moment...no way in the world are we able to know what's really going.

beheaded cableman? what the fuck is a cableman doing in Iraq???

Is that the bullshit "liberation" we are supposedly bringing to Iraq??? Cinemax and HBO???

One thing is to have an opinion and another whole different story is unravel in a frenetic justice fueled speech of dispair.

you raise some very valid points. which again go back to unanswered questions:

a)What was he doing there? He was neither a contacted civilian nor a member of the military...

b)Why he was not sent back to the US?

c)Who authorized his travel to Iraq?

d)Why was his families repeated requests for the information, as to his whereabouts go unanswered; until the family initiated a lawsuit?

Once again we can point fingers and do circles around the facts. It is obvious this was a horrific act, and no one deserves to die in this brutal manner. To challenge someone's sensitivity on the same; simply because they raised questions is a rather weak attack if you ask me. The facts need to be put on the table, and addressed so we can move on.

[shroomy]

you raise some very valid points. which again go back to unanswered questions:

a)What was he doing there? He was neither a contacted civilian nor a member of the military...

b)Why he was not sent back to the US?

c)Who authorized his travel to Iraq?

d)Why was his families repeated requests for the information, as to his whereabouts go unanswered; until the family initiated a lawsuit?

Another unanswered question, what answer would any of them have to be to make a difference?? What could be the excuse for sawing of his head with a knife on video?

There is no reasoning or reaching people who would even think of such a thing yet alone do it.

[djcarlosf]

those jundies are ruthless...i noticed that the knife wasnt even that sharp...poor guy...