kfitz73 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Put them on that team and they would have as muchTotal BS....Ironically when the Yanks payroll skyrocketed and they started going after the big dogs (Mussina, Giambi etc) that's when they stopped winning. In 96, the Braves had a much better team on paper. The Yanks wanted it more and scraped their way to victory. 1998's team, one of the best ever had a $65 million payroll. None of the Yankee teams that won recently had a 30 hr guy. They won without stars and Jeter was a big part of that. Even today, with all their stars the Yankees are no lock to win anything this year. Even if they get Randy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Put them on that team and they would have as muchdumb rationale....but playing along with that would they have put up the same #s and clutch performances during those post season runs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 well george is an owner but besides tha NO G.M is beating the doors down to trade for Mrs Mia Hamm the baby that sits out during a must win game and hits .195 in the ALCSand he batted .375 in the ALCS before thatwe're also talking about a guy that is better defensively than Jeter (has more range but gets wild with the throwing arm sometimes), is a 30-100 guy, and won two batting titlesJeter is the 4th best shortstop in the American League behind Rodriguez, Nomar, and Miguel face the facts and stop living in denial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 dumb rationale....but playing along with that would they have put up the same #s and clutch performances during those post season runsand THE SAME AMOUNT OF RINGS...so please don't base Jeter being in the HOF because of rings...put him on ANY OTHER team and he's slightly better than average...not a HOF'er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 and he batted .375 in the ALCS before thatwe're also talking about a guy that is better defensively than Jeter (has more range but gets wild with the throwing arm sometimes), is a 30-100 guy, and won two batting titlesJeter is the 4th best shortstop in the American League behind Rodriguez, Nomar, and Miguel face the facts and stop living in denialhow am i living in denial? the point being referenced was who would any gm would want dj or nomar .... and im going to go with the guy who is a WINNER not a WHINER, and if you wanna bring up stats will gladly do it again most hits in all of baseball going into this year since 1996, .317 ba 4 rings, rookie of the yr. alcs mvp world series mvp all star mvp , highest battiing average ever in allstar historybetter arm than Nomar , better roaming range (not lateral range) better instincts and better base runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 and THE SAME AMOUNT OF RINGS...so please don't base Jeter being in the HOF because of rings...put him on ANY OTHER team and he's slightly better than average...not a HOF'erso if he winds up with close to 3000 hits .300 avg and didnt have any ringshe wouldnt get in???but you also are asayingthat he does get in now because of the rings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 rizzuto sold his soul to the devil.Once jeter starts getting older his hits and average will come down. He strikes out too often now, as his natural skill deteriorates (sp) he will not be as good. Shit happens to almost everyone, but because he hacks away he will struggle later on. I do not care what his "intangables" his numbers right now do not put him in the hall. 7 more years of declining numbers put him at around 2500 hits and 200-220 homeruns. He will get in, but not first ballot.No gold gloves, no mvps, no batting titles, never hit more then 30 hr, only drove in 100 rbi's once, Come on people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 how am i living in denial? the point being referenced was who would any gm would want dj or nomar .... and im going to go with the guy who is a WINNER not a WHINER, and if you wanna bring up stats will gladly do it again most hits in all of baseball going into this year since 1996, .317 ba 4 rings, rookie of the yr. alcs mvp world series mvp all star mvp , highest battiing average ever in allstar historybetter arm than Nomar , better roaming range (not lateral range) better instincts and better base runnerHis team wins, not himHis rings were collected when Paul O'Neil, Bernie Williams, Tino Martinez, David Wells, Roger Clemmens, John Wettlend, Mariano Rivera...people like that were the team captains and Jeter was young. The last four years or so Jeter has been the cornerstone of the Yankees......and what happened in those years? Lets recount......Yankees have had the highest payroll and argueably THE BEST PLAYERS in the league. 2001 the lost the World Series to the Diamondbacks, 2002 Anaheim was in the series...not the Yanks, 2003 the Yankees lost to a bunch of kids on the Marlins. Winner????? better rethink your position pappy...he won because he was on the Yankees, not because he led them to victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 rizzuto sold his soul to the devil.Once jeter starts getting older his hits and average will come down. He strikes out too often now, as his natural skill deteriorates (sp) he will not be as good. Shit happens to almost everyone, but because he hacks away he will struggle later on. I do not care what his "intangables" his numbers right now do not put him in the hall. 7 more years of declining numbers put him at around 2500 hits and 200-220 homeruns. He will get in, but not first ballot.No gold gloves, no mvps, no batting titles, never hit more then 30 hr, only drove in 100 rbi's once, Come on people. phil rizzuto voted in by the veterans comittee like a lot of players this is the only way they get in , being voted in 30 yrs later by their peers who dont look solewy at stats...that being said HOLY COW i miss senile phil rizzuto calling yankee gamesbut getting back to jeter , sorry JT...k 4 rings and his post season numbers alone are gonna make the writers vote him in , and DJ is not injury prone and he is getting better defensively ,is only 30 and besides a shitty april is having a rediculous offensive season power numbers included, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 His team wins, not himHis rings were collected when Paul O'Neil, Bernie Williams, Tino Martinez, David Wells, Roger Clemmens, John Wettlend, Mariano Rivera...people like that were the team captains and Jeter was young. The last four years or so Jeter has been the cornerstone of the Yankees......and what happened in those years? Lets recount......Yankees have had the highest payroll and argueably THE BEST PLAYERS in the league. 2001 the lost the World Series to the Diamondbacks, 2002 Anaheim was in the series...not the Yanks, 2003 the Yankees lost to a bunch of kids on the Marlins. Winner????? better rethink your position pappy...he won because he was on the Yankees, not because he led them to victory.ok chief....those guys were not yankee captainsderek jeter has done nothing but win since day 1 he took the field as a yankee. Funny thing the yanks started winnning world series in this run in 96 oh yeah Dereks first year , the yr he won rookie of the yr , he has been their most important postion player and most clutch player in the post season duiring these runs , has a career .315 batting average in the post season and the most post season hits EVER ....so that guy had no impact on the team winning?????? no kidding baseball is a team sport ....but the reason for dominance over a stretch of time is cuz of core guys JEter , Rivera Pettite maybe you should rethink your positionhate on him all you want the guy is a winner and a future hall of famer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 that is a good point since he became captain they have not won a ws. If they do win this year or the next people will look back and see that alone he could not win as captain but once arod came along..............His numbers are going to dip as he gets older, he is not bonds. Roy, ws mvp and 4 rings plus numbers that are sub Hall of fame standard does not get you in on first ballot. There will be too many poeple eligable around that time and will take away votes. Pedro is around the same age if they retire at the same time pedro gets in first ballot, jeter does not. Manny I believe will be a second ballot, he might have the HR's over 500 but will probably not have the hits, or defense skills. Unless he wins the triple crown or something.Conseco does not have the numbers to get in, less then 500 hr's and the fact he is a shit bag and people do not like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 ok chief....those guys were not yankee captainsderek jeter has done nothing but win since day 1 he took the field as a yankee. Funny thing the yanks started winnning world series in this run in 96 oh yeah Dereks first year , the yr he won rookie of the yr , he has been their most important postion player and most clutch player in the post season duiring these runs , has a career .315 batting average in the post season and the most post season hits EVER ....so that guy had no impact on the team winning?????? no kidding baseball is a team sport ....but the reason for dominance over a stretch of time is cuz of core guys JEter , Rivera Pettite maybe you should rethink your positionhate on him all you want the guy is a winner and a future hall of famerI smell a classic bxomb vs. jonstephens battle coming along.....but I'll end it here since there is no way to get it out of your head that Jeter is a shoe in for the hall of fame. bottom line is he still has a lot to prove before he even gets considered for the status obtained by the likes of bonds, clemens, piazza, johnson, etc....and I know I'm not alone when I state this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 I smell a classic bxomb vs. jonstephens battle coming along.....but I'll end it here since there is no way to get it out of your head that Jeter is a shoe in for the hall of fame. bottom line is he still has a lot to prove before he even gets considered for the status obtained by the likes of bonds, clemens, piazza, johnson, etc....and I know I'm not alone when I state this.no battle here dude im simply stating that i am pretty sure the baseball writers would vote DJ in 5 yrs after he retires and mostly because of the things he has accomplished up to this point, his stats along with 4 rings so far....will IMO guarantee him entry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magellanmax Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 I am tired of all the "WHAT IF's" if we all lived by the "WHAT IF's" it would be a perfect world wouldn't it. Yeah being on the right team does help out a great deal. And that is what makes many players the stars that they are today. But remember something. You did something right to be playing on the team that you are playing on. You did something right to earn the salary that you are making today. And you did something right to be one of the only Yankees that have not yet been dealt to another team for another " HOT SHOT " flash in the pants one year of dominance or chance at a ring. The truth of the matter is. Yeah Jeter may not be as good as some. But he is alot better than many. Yeah A-Rod is better. Yeah this, and yeah that. But if we spent every single day arguing who should be where and why this one should not be here... Well it kinda gets old. If Javier Lopez was on another team he would not be a 10-5 pitcher this season. If you took MO and put him on another team would he have as many saves. Yeah his ERA may still be around the same. But other stats would lack. And I love MO. But it is the same all over baseball. SO GIVE IT A FUCKIN REST... :smile: Every player is either victim of circumstance... Or they highly benefit from circumstance. The truth of the matter is. Jeter is not on another team. He is on the Yankees. His stats are what they are. Because they are what they are. :blah:WHO GIVES A FUCK... SHUT UP AND PLAY BALL!!!LETS GO YANKS... HERES TO A BETTER SECOND HALF... PS... IF YOU LOOK AT YANKEE HISTORY... 90% OF THERE PLAYERS GOT BETTER WHEN THEY LEFT THE TEAM. AND THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO THE YANKEES DROP OFF... TRADE FOR TRADE... YANKEE PLAYERS GOING TO DIFFERENT TEAMS FAR OUT PERFORMED THE PLAYERS THAT CAME TO THE YANKS... GO FIGURE...I take it you didnt approve of my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 who left the team and got better? knobby spencer karim garcia soriano nick johnson jeff nelson david wells david cone You might be right but i can not think of any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magellanmax Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 If the HOF was just about numbers, players like Fred McGriff, Jose Canseco and the like would get in as well. Again, you do not define a player like Jeter by just his numbers. It the intangibles that set him apart from everyone else. If Phil fucking Rissuto is in the HOF then Jeter sure as hell will be in there. If you compare Jeter's numbers to Nomars there is no comparison but ask any GM in baseball who they would rather have on their team...Its obvious Fred McGriff is hanging around to reach a milestone-500 and there is a big debate whether he should get in... i think its a classless way to get in by hanging around and wasting a roster spot. McGriff has ahd an outstanding career (minus the Tom Symanski videos) and i think he should just bow out and let chips fall where they may. 500 isnt automatic anymore. The same goes for R. Palmiero, he aint HOF material, i'm sorry, he is a one dimensional player imo.i dont want to beat a dead horse, but jeter aint HOF material.... everyone knows that #s get you in. If the yamkee players(esp. jeter) will get an exception to the rule and get in purely on showboating reasons, they might as well shut the HOF building and lease the office space, atleast they could use the money to support the boys & girls clubs. p.s jeter blows ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 jeff weaver, juan rivera (did he leave or is he in triple A), joe girardi, ricky ledee.I think everyone is worse when they leave, but i can see why it is like getting kicked out of the us and having to live in equador or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Tino martinez, ramero mendoza andy pettit , you got me on clemens, and maybe wettland for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementx Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 who left the team and got better? knobby spencer karim garcia soriano nick johnson jeff nelson david wells david cone You might be right but i can not think of any.I am not talking as of recent. And I am talking about major trades they made throughout the history of the Yanks. Not Rookie trades, not scrub trades or sub star trades... There was a special on I think last year and they compared all trades the Yankees ever made. And the players that left faired far better than the players who came to the team...PS - Tino Martinez was never given the chance... They have like 4 1st baseman on that fucking team.Magellan - It is all the what if posts... But yours got me going LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codica3 Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 automatic anymore. The same goes for R. Palmiero, he aint HOF material, i'm sorry, he is a one dimensional player imo.i dont want to beat a dead horse, but jeter aint HOF material.... everyone knows that #s get you in. If the yamkee players(esp. jeter) will get an exception to the rule and get in purely on showboating reasons, they might as well shut the HOF building and lease the office space, atleast they could use the money to support the boys & girls clubs. p.s jeter blows !THIS PROVES YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS MITCH rafael plamiero????? are you fucking kidding me 550 homeruns .300 career avergage???you are good for a laugh every single week thanks maggieanyother sports you wish to enlighten us on???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 He did win three gold gloves I think it will be close for him, maybe not first ballot, but he should get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitz73 Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 He's been one of the most consistant players of his time. He gets in no problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 He did win three gold gloves I think it will be close for him, maybe not first ballot, but he should get in.close???????? do people need to cure cancer or walk on water to get in ?and i wish you didntdrop that 3 gold glove hint for Maggie , i wanted to let him to explain how he was a one dimensional player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 He's been one of the most consistant players of his time. He gets in no problem...Exactly when its all over for him he will have right around 3 thousand hits / 600 homeruns and close to a .300 averageand longevity at his age past 9 yrs has averaged 35 HR and over 100 rbi FIRST BALLOT not even a question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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