380 tons of high grade explosives lost in Iraq

[kramadas]

The original article again.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast...ives/index.html

VIENNA, Austria (CNN) -- Some 380 tons of explosives, powerful enough to be used to detonate nuclear warheads, are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that was supposed to be under American control, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog says.

Melissa Fleming, spokeswoman for the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), told CNN the Iraqi interim government reported several days ago that the explosives were missing from the Al Qaqaa complex, south of Baghdad.

The explosives -- considered powerful enough to demolish buildings or detonate nuclear warheads -- were under IAEA control until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. IAEA workers left the country before the fighting began.

"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the wrong hands they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of the bombings that we've seen," Fleming said.

She described Al Qaqaa as "massive," and said it is one of the most well-known storage sites. Besides the 380 tons, there were large caches of artillery there.

Fleming said the IAEA does not know whether some of the explosives may already have been used.

A senior administration official told CNN that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice was notified about the missing stash about a month ago. Iraq Survey Group inspectors are investigating, the official said.

The discovery was not made public sooner because standard intelligence practice is not to let the enemy know such information, the official said.

There are hundreds of tons of other weapons and munitions missing around the country, and it is impossible for the United States to track down all of them, the official said.

Even so, he conceded, Monday's story is not a good one for the White House, just over a week from election day.

A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.

"The immediate danger" of the lost stockpiles is its potential use by insurgents to make small, but powerful, explosive devices, an expert told the Times. The expert said the explosives could be transported easily across the Middle East.

According to the Times, the stockpiles missing from Al Qaqaa are the strongest and fastest in common use by militaries around the globe.

The Iraqi letter to IAEA identified the vanished explosives as containing 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or "high melting point explosive," 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or "rapid detonation explosive," among other designations, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or "pentaerythritol tetranitrate."

Fleming said the IAEA, whose mission is to keep track of everything with potential nuclear weapons applications, had been monitoring about 100 sites in Iraq, but there were only a few of special concern, including Al Qaqaa.

"The concern is that other sites that have items that are potentially dangerous have gone missing," Fleming added.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's campaign decried the missing explosives.

In a statement, Kerry senior adviser Joe Lockhart said, "the Bush administration must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq.

"How did they fail to secure nearly 380 tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so? And why was this information unearthed by reporters -- and was it covered up by our national security officials?"

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons. The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site."

Lockhart criticized Bush for his "stunning incompetence."

[kramadas]

and my thoughts...

:

Originally Posted by tres-b

Im not defending anyone. I am simply saying that personal attacks and comments about peoples moms are lame.

You want my opinion on this, well here it is....

I think that the US has a long way to go before Iraq is under control. Until we reach the point where Muslim Terrorists arent beheading people, setting off car bombs, and executing 50 unarmed men who wanted to serve a new democratic Iraq things like this are going to happen. Do I think it is a huge deal...No. When you think about the amount of explosives in the hands of Muslim Terrorists worldwide and compare this to that, it is a small amount in the overall scheme of things. Do I think we need to look at why it happened and try to prevent it from happening again...Absolutely.

No war is perfect. This one is no different and the normal problems are compounded by savages who believe that a Muslim Theocracy is the only way to govern b/c it allows them to exploit the fears of the uninformed public and stir up hate againts the US, Israel, Christians, Jews, Buddhists and everything else that is good in the world.

Israel - good for the world?? haha - and how do you think oppressing and subjagating a whole people is "good". Israel is far from good for the world. At least half of the world's problems are caused by that cancerous pit in the middle east, that INCLUDES Israel.

Let me ask you this - how was Muslim "theocracy" doing in Iraq while Saddam was in power?

Its about time the neo-cons stopped blindly supporting Bush and realize the post-war planning for what it is - grossly (maybe criminally) fucked up! Its funny you don't comment on the fact that the administration thought it was more important to guard the oil lines and wells rather than one of the biggest military installations in the country, containing hundreds of tons of highly efficient explosives that can be used to make C-4, Samptex, or trigger nuclear fission reactions. This was after they were explicitly warned by the IAEA that such a site existed and needed to be guarded.

And how much explosives do all the terrorists in the world have? What numbers are you comparing the 350 tons to? Or is it a statement based on pure speculation and not on facts?

Few terrorists ruining things for Iraqis. While the people who conduct beheadings, and car bombings are terrorists, there is also a huge group of people who are truly resistance fighters, fighting US soldiers. For you not being able to distinguish between them, shows a level of naivity to the situation over there. Maybe if you cared to read more of the articles posted on that subject (eg, the article on Bremer's shock and awe economic policy), you would get a deeper understanding of whats going on. The only "world muslim terrorism" right now is Al queda.

There was an article in the Post last week about how if there were an election in Iraq right now, the islamic religious leadership would win by a landslide. I wonder what you would have to say if the IRaqi people actually WANT a theocracy!

Also, if you want to talk about "theocracy" you might want to throw the US govt under that label as well, as it seems your Bush seems to think he's being guided by God.

And once again I ask you to not stick your head into something you don't have any knowledge about. If you want to do that, look back at all of g420's posts and then tell me who brought up whos mother first.

[obby]

John Kerry will say anything he believes will help him politically, and today he is grasping at headlines to obscure his record of weakness and indecision in the War on Terror. These are the tactics of a candidate who has no message for the future and no positive record to run on.

The entire country of Iraq was a weapons stockpile. So far, 243,000 tons of weapons and explosives have been secured and destroyed. In addition, 163,000 tons of weapons and explosives have been secured and are awaiting destruction. All the Monday morning-quarterbacking and armchair-generaling in the world by John Kerry won't make up for the fact that he does not have a vision, a strategy or a plan to fight and win the War on Terror.

Saddam Hussein's government stored weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and countless other locations throughout Iraq. Yet, John Kerry showed today that he still cannot decide whether Saddam Hussein was a threat or not. He claims the weapons our troops have secured and destroyed were not a threat, but any other weapons were.

Flip Flop Flip Flop

[chris817]

Republicans would be saying the same if it was a democrat in office now

I could just imagine what republicans would be saying if Gore was elected and did the exact same things Bush had donewith the war in Iraq

John Kerry will say anything he believes will help him politically, and today he is grasping at headlines to obscure his record of weakness and indecision in the War on Terror. These are the tactics of a candidate who has no message for the future and no positive record to run on.

The entire country of Iraq was a weapons stockpile. So far, 243,000 tons of weapons and explosives have been secured and destroyed. In addition, 163,000 tons of weapons and explosives have been secured and are awaiting destruction. All the Monday morning-quarterbacking and armchair-generaling in the world by John Kerry won't make up for the fact that he does not have a vision, a strategy or a plan to fight and win the War on Terror.

Saddam Hussein's government stored weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and countless other locations throughout Iraq. Yet, John Kerry showed today that he still cannot decide whether Saddam Hussein was a threat or not. He claims the weapons our troops have secured and destroyed were not a threat, but any other weapons were.

Flip Flop Flip Flop

[tres-b]

Republicans would be saying the same if it was a democrat in office now

I could just imagine what republicans would be saying if Gore was elected and did the exact same things Bush had donewith the war in Iraq

That is just wrong. Period.

[kramadas]

Republicans would be saying the same if it was a democrat in office now

I could just imagine what republicans would be saying if Gore was elected and did the exact same things Bush had donewith the war in Iraq

Exactly!

Plus, its obvious Bush's plan is not working, and they're too arrogant to admit their mistakes. Any plan that involves more int'l cooperation will be better than what Bush is doing.

[obby]

Demz see the progress in Iraq as equivalent to a glass being half empty as to Republicans seeing it as being half full.

I vote Republican because I see things in perspective !!!!!!!!!!!!

[chris817]

That is just wrong. Period.

How it is wrong?

I remember when clinton went to war with Serbia there were so many right wing attacks

And how many soldiers died?

You know you all would be going ape shit if a democrat in the white house carried out the same policies as Bush's

[bigpoppanils]

How it is wrong?

I remember when clinton went to war with Serbia there were so many right wing attacks

And how many soldiers died?

You know you all would be going ape shit if a democrat in the white house carried out the same policies as Bush's

even if the democrat was still in office.

if Gore was in office when 9/11 happened, the GOP would have impeached him

[tres-b]

How it is wrong?

I remember when clinton went to war with Serbia there were so many right wing attacks

And how many soldiers died?

You know you all would be going ape shit if a democrat in the white house carried out the same policies as Bush's

The reason we didnt suffer losses is simple--we didnt risk any troops.

Our planes flew missions from so high up that they could not be hit by surface to air weapons. Our efforts in Serbia were minimal. We hardly contributed to the cause.

And no, I wouldnt be going ape shit b/c unlike Democrats, I base my decisions on reason and logic not political gain.

[kramadas]

The reason we didnt suffer losses is simple--we didnt risk any troops.

Our planes flew missions from so high up that they could not be hit by surface to air weapons. Our efforts in Serbia were minimal. We hardly contributed to the cause.

And no, I wouldnt be going ape shit b/c unlike Democrats, I base my decisions on reason and logic not political gain.

well, thats the idea isn't it - to make our efforts minimal, and have a big international coalition. The same purpose was achieved - and in fact I don't see hundreds of suicide attacks on UN troops over there.

And now compare that to what Bush has done with Iraq - the opposite. Minimal int'l support - max. troops and civilian damage, increased unrest, etc, etc.

Republicans, esp, neo-cons, love to base opinions on political and economic gain.

[tres-b]

well, thats the idea isn't it - to make our efforts minimal, and have a big international coalition. The same purpose was achieved - and in fact I don't see hundreds of suicide attacks on UN troops over there.

And now compare that to what Bush has done with Iraq - the opposite. Minimal int'l support - max. troops and civilian damage, increased unrest, etc, etc.

Republicans, esp, neo-cons, love to base opinions on political and economic gain.

Thats because the Muslim Terrorists we are dealing with in Iraq are far different that the forces in Serbia. Besides, how would we know is there were bombings? None of our troops were on the ground.

The Serbian issue was far more localized than the Iraq issue. As a result, Europe was more inclined to get involved. Out of curiosity, what constitutes a Coalition? How many more nations do we need? If France, Germany, and Russia didnt have dirty hands from stroking the Saddam they would have been with us as well.

[kramadas]

Thats because the Muslim Terrorists we are dealing with in Iraq are far different that the forces in Serbia. Besides, how would we know is there were bombings? None of our troops were on the ground.

The Serbian issue was far more localized than the Iraq issue. As a result, Europe was more inclined to get involved. Out of curiosity, what constitutes a Coalition? How many more nations do we need? If France, Germany, and Russia didnt have dirty hands from stroking the Saddam they would have been with us as well.

Again you skirted around my initial question - do you realize there are different factions in Iraq - terrorists, and true insurgents -where the one group is legitimate resistance against the soldiers, and the other group beheads people. THe group that beheads people is linked to Al Queda. Or do you just conveniently lump them all into "muslim terrorists". FOr your information the fight in Serbia also involved muslims against christians.

A coalition is one where there is more balance in the number of troops each country supplies. Not this "coalition on paper" business. Or the 300 some tiny eastern european country supplies in return for increased aid.

There are two different types of people(republicans). True republicans who value the idealogy behind "conservative" and are willing to step back and say "Bush fucked up" when he does. Their loyalty is to the idealogy.

And then the purely Bush supporters(neo-cons) who will stand behind him, even as he makes mistake after mistake - if Bush said the moon was made of cheese, this group would be clamoring to find evidence to support the assertation! Their loyalty is to the man, Bush.

Dick and Bush!

[g420]

and my thoughts...

Israel - good for the world?? haha - and how do you think oppressing and subjagating a whole people is "good". Israel is far from good for the world. At least half of the world's problems are caused by that cancerous pit in the middle east, that INCLUDES Israel.

.

A whole people?? what a joke, tell me your knobgobler, if they are a "legit" people what is their currency? Their official language? Leadership? thought so.... a made up people & place, no such thing as palestine never was

Subjugating & oppressing, lmaoooo, if Israel wanted to they could easily cleanse those smelly dirty uneducated sand monkeys, in a matter of minutes.

[chris817]

The reason we didnt suffer losses is simple--we didnt risk any troops.

Our planes flew missions from so high up that they could not be hit by surface to air weapons. Our efforts in Serbia were minimal. We hardly contributed to the cause.

And no, I wouldnt be going ape shit b/c unlike Democrats, I base my decisions on reason and logic not political gain.

Well then you break from your party; they all went ape shit over serbia

I don't think the people that we saved consider our effort minimal

[jtk4]

you guys are fucking nuts if you do not think that the republicans would of dona all they could to impeach a democrat from office if this went down the same.

[mursa]

..This has to be some of the worst news to occur !! 380 tons of explosives stolen from a US armed forces storage !

sad sad sad !

[jtk4]

i do not know if it is the worst news I bet there are other things that could be pretty bad also.

[tres-b]

..This has to be some of the worst news to occur !! 380 tons of explosives stolen from a US armed forces storage !

sad sad sad !

Some of the worst news to occur???

Are you kidding me? This is not a huge deal. Is it an issue? Yes, absolutely. Is it going to make a difference in the outcome? No. There is never a shortage of explosive for these Muslims terroriss to strap on and blow themselves and innocents up. This will just make the supply a little more plentiful.

I would consider the massacre of 50 unarmed Iraqi solidiers in the desert worse news. But then again, I understand that these missing explosives are all the fault of President Bush so I understand why Mursa believes this is the worst news of the year.

[kramadas]

A whole people?? what a joke, tell me your knobgobler, if they are a "legit" people what is their currency? Their official language? Leadership? thought so.... a made up people & place, no such thing as palestine never was

Subjugating & oppressing, lmaoooo, if Israel wanted to they could easily cleanse those smelly dirty uneducated sand monkeys, in a matter of minutes.

Hey numbfuck - so according to your logic, there never should have been a USA (since there were no "Americans" prior to Columbus), or an Israel (as there was no Israel prior to this century) - or a host of other "people". You've tried this argument before and I've shot it down before - guess you're memory is not quite there. Lay off the drugs, son, they're not good for you.

Guess why Israel hasn't "cleansed" those people - coz of the US.

People - know what Hitler was made of - just look athe words this moron is using - "cleanse" "monkeys" , etc. I'm sure thats how Hitler viewed the Jews.

[kramadas]

Some of the worst news to occur???

Are you kidding me? This is not a huge deal. Is it an issue? Yes, absolutely. Is it going to make a difference in the outcome? No. There is never a shortage of explosive for these Muslims terroriss to strap on and blow themselves and innocents up. This will just make the supply a little more plentiful.

I would consider the massacre of 50 unarmed Iraqi solidiers in the desert worse news. But then again, I understand that these missing explosives are all the fault of President Bush so I understand why Mursa believes this is the worst news of the year.

If the IAEA thinks its a huge deal, I'd rather go with that, than some opinion of someone on a clubbing messageboard.

[igloo]

NBCNEWS: CACHE OF EXPLOSIVES VANISHED FROM SITE IN IRAQ BEFORE TROOPS ARRIVED...

The NYTIMES urgently reported on Monday in an apprent October Surprise: The Iraqi interim government and the U.N. nuclear agency have warned the United States that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives are now missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.

[The source behind the NYT story first went to CBSNEWS' 60 MINUTES last Wednesday, but the beleaguered network wasn't able to get the piece on the air as fast as the newspaper could print. Executive producer Jeff Fager hoped to break the story during a high-impact election eve broadcast of 60 MINS on October 31.]

Jumping on the TIMES exclusive, Dem presidential candidate John Kerry blasted the Bush administration for its failure to "guard those stockpiles."

"This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the great blunders of this administration," Kerry said.

In an election week rush:

**ABCNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 4 Times

**CBSNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 7 Times

**MSNBC Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 37 Times

**CNN Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 50 Times

But tonight, NBCNEWS reported: The 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives were already missing back in April 10, 2003 -- when U.S. troops arrived at the installation south of Baghdad!

An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq.

According to NBCNEWS, the HMX and RDX explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived.

"The U.S. Army was at the site one day after the liberation and the weapons were already gone," a top Republican blasted from Washington late Monday.

The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors last saw the explosives in January 2003 when they took an inventory and placed fresh seals on the bunkers.

Dem vp hopeful John Edwards blasted Bush for not securing the explosives: "It is reckless and irresponsible to fail to protect and safeguard one of the largest weapons sites in the country. And by either ignoring these mistakes or being clueless about them, George Bush has failed. He has failed as our commander in chief; he has failed as president."

A senior Bush official e-mailed DRUDGE late Monday: "Let me get this straight, are Mr. Kerry and Mr. Edwards now saying we did not go into Iraq soon enough? We should have invaded and liberated Iraq sooner?"

Top Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart fired back Monday night: "In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately flailing in an effort to escape blame. Instead of distorting John Kerry’s words, the Bush campaign is now falsely and deliberately twisting the reports of journalists. It is the latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a mistake, no matter how disastrous."

Why is the U.N. nuclear agency suddenly warning now that insurgents in Iraq may have obtained nearly 400 tons of missing explosives -- in early 2003?

NBCNEWS Jim Miklaszewski quoted one official: "Recent disagreements between the administration and the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency makes this announcement appear highly political."

[tres-b]

If the IAEA thinks its a huge deal, I'd rather go with that, than some opinion of someone on a clubbing messageboard.

A clubber w/ a degree in Political Science who works in Commercial Real Estate and gets it done during the week...

Just because you have a masters, work at the WB and rave til dawn doesnt mean a I do the same.

And if it was such a big f'ing deal, maybe they should have stuck around to guard it until our troops arrived since it was missing before we got there.

[kramadas]

A clubber w/ a degree in Political Science who works in Commercial Real Estate and gets it done during the week...

Just because you work retail making minimum wage and rave til dawn doesnt mean I do the same.

And if it was such a big f'ing deal, maybe they should have stuck around to guard it until our troops arrived since it was missing before we got there.

Hey moron - for one who so praises himself for not resorting to personal attacks you've truly proven yourself for that - a moron. haha minimum wage...as a guy with a Masters working at the World Bank, I think still think I'd go with the IAEA than some moron on a clubbing messageboard with a poli-sci degree from - who knows, Devry's online university.

[tres-b]

Hey moron - for one who so praises himself for not resorting to personal attacks you've truly proven yourself for that - a moron. haha minimum wage...as a guy with a Masters working at the World Bank, I think still think I'd go with the IAEA than some moron on a clubbing messageboard with a poli-sci degree from - who knows, Devry's online university.

How would I know if you work retail??? My point was that Im not some club kid who just sits around and does nothing. When Im on here Im taking a break. Relax...Devry

By the way, what do you do for the World Bank?