Jump to content
Clubplanet Nightlife Community

Anyone running a cycle before WMC?


Recommended Posts

I need to get into a SERIOUS routine. I've been hitting the gym and luckily i have a pretty good physique to start with and good genetics. I wont even waste my time telling you what I do at the gym, because I wouldnt mind a complete workout makeover.

Im about 5'6, about 170. My legs are huge as a result of college baseball. My arms are a decent size, but need to get bigger, as does my chest. I have very broad shoulders (the top and back are bigger than the front and sides) and a wide, well-developed back. My abs are starting to come along,but i have some nice love handles still. Any advice to make the parts i need to be bigger bigger and make everything toned at the same time would be greatly appreciated. i dont plan on hitting the juice, but id still like to do this as quickly as possible, as i have a LOT of free time to do it, and memorial day is only a couple of monthes away. heh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30-40 minutes of cardio 5 days/week. Preferably cardio in morning. Then hit weights four days a week. (Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri) Take weekend off to rest.

Diet - oatmeal for breakfast, low fat protein/ green veggies rest of the day. Small meals. Avoid booze if you can.

Supplements - BCAA's and flaxseed oil gel caps.

Two months of that and you are golden.

That is pretty much what I do year round within reason (except for the booze part :pint: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just started a new diet....very low carb/high protein. Ive been on it for a week and i already feel some of the effects. In the morning I eat oatmeal and a piece of fruit. Lunch i come home and eat either 2 chicken tenderloins, palomilla (thin steak), or a small piece of skirt steak and either mixed veggies or a sweet potato. Mid afternoon a can of tuna or chicken with a little lemon juice. Dinner about the same as lunch but I also mix in fish and salad. My trainer friend told me today that for snacks i could try eating almonds. One of the lowest in fat content and is good for your skin. Water all day long.

I guess my metabolism is pretty high, ive had more energy and im hot now when i used to be soooooo cold in my office.

Now if only the damn gym would open up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just started a new diet....very low carb/high protein. Ive been on it for a week and i already feel some of the effects. In the morning I eat oatmeal and a piece of fruit. Lunch i come home and eat either 2 chicken tenderloins, palomilla (thin steak), or a small piece of skirt steak and either mixed veggies or a sweet potato. Mid afternoon a can of tuna or chicken with a little lemon juice. Dinner about the same as lunch but I also mix in fish and salad. My trainer friend told me today that for snacks i could try eating almonds. One of the lowest in fat content and is good for your skin. Water all day long.

I guess my metabolism is pretty high, ive had more energy and im hot now when i used to be soooooo cold in my office.

Now if only the damn gym would open up

Need to get some protien in your morning meal ...its the second most important meal of the day next to post workout. After sleeping your body hasn't had any protein for at least 6-8 hours and needs more than just carbs. Toss in a shake or something in the morning along w/ what you have

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Need to get some protien in your morning meal ...its the second most important meal of the day next to post workout. After sleeping your body hasn't had any protein for at least 6-8 hours and needs more than just carbs. Toss in a shake or something in the morning along w/ what you have

I agree morning meal is second most important meal. Most important is post workout. Try Beverly International Muscle Provider chocolate as a supplement. 1 scoop mixed in 8 oz water. (no need to use blender) with a small cup of oatmeal for breakfast. Then 1/2 a sweet potato or cup of brown rice) should be immediately after your workout with a protein drink.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree morning meal is second most important meal. Most important is post workout. Try Beverly International Muscle Provider chocolate as a supplement. 1 scoop mixed in 8 oz water. (no need to use blender) with a small cup of oatmeal for breakfast. Then 1/2 a sweet potato or cup of brown rice) should be immediately after your workout with a protein drink.

You do need some simple sugars (even if you are on low carbs) to replace the gylcogen in your muscles for post workout though - those complex carbs are good but they take too long to digest - get some simple sugars in there as well

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Running winny right here.

Maybe some Andro right before the conference

sorry not smart. run the andro now and winny later! and dont forget pct! actually run the andro now and two weeks in run winny. you really dont have that much time. for these compounds to actually work to there best ability. but good luck. you will prob. see better results and not feel shitty during wmc because you prob. will not be running it down there if you just get your diet on point and hit the cardio. good luck though!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope the info below helps so your nuts don't shrivel up and fall off. Please realize that juice is in no way a short cut. most of the time the gains are marginal. you still have to work your ass off to get results and the side effects are too numerous to mention. It is definitely a personal decision, instead of running a cycle try running and cycling. The info below may sound like a chemistry text book but what do you expect when you start messing with hormone levels in your body. good luck

Why Bodybuilders Use Clomid

Clomid is a generic name for Clomiphene Citrate and is a synthetic oestrogen. It is prescribed medically to aid ovulation in low fertility females. Another generic name is Serophene.

Most anabolic steroids, especially the androgens, cause inhibition of the body's own testosterone production. When a bodybuilder comes off a steroid cycle, natural testosterone production is zero and the levels of the steroids taken in the blood are diminishing. This leaves the ratios of catabolic : anabolic hormones in the blood high, hence the body is in a state of catabolism, and, as a result, much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going to be lost.

Clomid stimulates the hypothalamus to, in turn stimulant the anterior pituitary gland (aka hypophysis) to release gonadotrophic hormones. The gonadotrophic hormones are follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH - aka interstitial cell stimulating hormone (ICSH)). FSH stimulates the testes to produce more testosterone, and LH stimulates them to secrete more testosterone. This feedback mechanism is known as the hypothalamic-pituitary-testes axis (HPTA), and results in an increase of the body's own testosterone production and blood levels rise, to, in part, compensate for the diminishing levels of exogenous steroids. This is vital to minimise post cycle muscle losses.

Not all steroids do cause shut down of the feedback mechanism. Everyone is different and you must also take into account how long you have been using a certain steroid and at what dose in order to determine if you need Clomid or not.

Clomid also works as an anti-oestrogen. As it's a weak synthetic oestrogen, it binds to oestrogen receptors on cells blocking them to oestrogen in the blood. This minimises the negative effects like gynecomastia and water retention that may be a result of oestrogen that has aromatised from testosterone.

It's effect as an anti-oestrogen are quite weak though, and it should not be relied upon if you are going to be using androgenic steroids that aromatise at a rapid rate, or if you are pre-disposed to gynecomastia. Arimidex and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) are far more effective anti-oestrogens.

Important note: Clomid does not, as is often thought, stimulate the release of natural testosterone, but rather works at reducing the oestrogenic inhibition caused by the steroid cycle. It does this in a similar manner to the way it and Nolvadex block oestrogen receptors in nipples to combat gyno development, i.e. by blocking the oestrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary thus reducing the inhibition from the elevated oestrogen. This allows LH levels to return to normal, or even above normal levels, and in turn, natural testosterone levels to also normalise.

Inhibition of the HPTA is caused by either elevated androgen, oestrogen or progesterone levels. On cessation of the steroid cycle, androgen levels begin to fall and Clomid dosing is normally commenced according to the half-life of the longest acting drug in the system (see below).

This may also explain the reason individuals often find post-deca recovery more difficult, as the progesterone presence is untouched by the Clomid. We know that Clomid and Nolvadex (being very similar chemically) are both ineffective with regard to reducing progesterone related gyno, so it is reasonable to assume that Clomid has little effect against progesterone levels.

Clomid During A Cycle

When we use anabolic steroids, the level of androgens in the body rises causing the androgen receptors to become more highly activated, and through the HPTA, a signal tells our testes to stop producing testosterone. During a cycle the body has far higher than normal levels of androgens and, as long as this level is high enough, Clomid will not help to keep natural testosterone production up. It will be almost all but completely shut off, in theory.

Some heavy androgen users, however, do advocate a small burst of Clomid mid-cycle, though it must be hard for them to say if it really of any benefit, due to the amount of gear they are using. Therefore, the only purpose of Clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen.

When To Start Clomid

The correct time to commence Clomid depends on the type and cycle of steroids you have been using. Different steroids have different half-lifes (indicates the time a substance diminishes in blood), and Clomid administration should be taken accordingly.

As we have seen above, Clomid taken when androgen levels in our blood are still high will be a waste. It is crucial to wait for androgen levels to fall before implementing our Clomid therapy. However, if taken too late we could possibly lose gains.

The list below determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol, Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time.

Steroid Time after

last administration Length of

Clomid Cycle

Anadrol50/Anapolan50: 8 - 12 hours 3 weeks

Deca durabolan: 3 weeks 4 weeks

Dianabol: 4 - 8 hours 3 weeks

Equipoise: 17 - 21 days 3 weeks

Finajet/Trenbolone: 3 days 3 weeks

Primabolan depot: 10 - 14 days 2 weeks

Sustanon: 3 weeks 3 weeks

Testosterone Cypionate: 2 weeks 3 weeks

Testosterone Enanthate/Testaviron: 2 weeks 3 weeks

Testosterone Propionate: 3 days 3 weeks

Testosterone Suspension: 4 - 8 hours 2-3 weeks

Winstrol 8 - 12 hours 2-3 weeks

How To Take Clomid

Clomid has a long half-life (possibly 5 days), so there is no need to split up doses throughout the day. If Sustanon has been used and Clomid is commenced 3 weeks after the last injection, I would estimate that androgen levels are low enough to start sending the correct signals. If androgen levels are still a little high, we need to start at a high enough amount that will work or help, even if androgen levels are still a little high. Try 300mg on day 1; then use 100mg for the next 10 days; followed by 50mg for 10 days.

Using HCG

It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.

From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:

1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or

2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

Doses of HCG

Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.

Presentation and Administration of HCG

Synthetic HCG is often known as Pregnyl (generic name) and is available in 2500iu and 5000iu (not ideal for the above doses!). Administration of the compound is either by intra-muscular or subcutaneous injection. It comes as a powder which needs to be mixed with the sterile water. The powder is temperature-sensitive prior to mixing and should not be exposed to direct heat. After mixing, it should be kept refrigerated and used within a few weeks - though there are sterility issues which need to be considered after mixing.

Summary and Price of Clomid and HCG

Clomid is more effective than HCG post cycle, but some long-term users like to use HCG during a cycle, or to prepare the testes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...