Think this same thing would happen with a re-instated draft???

[ou812]

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20050324/2129065239.htm&ewp=ewp_news_iraq2

Canada Denies Refugee Status to American

By BETH DUFF-BROWN

TORONTO (AP) - A U.S. Army paratrooper who fled to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq was denied political asylum Thursday, dealing a blow to other deserters here who argue such duty would force them to commit atrocities against civilians.

An immigration board ruled that Jeremy Hinzman had not convinced its members he would face persecution or cruel and unusual punishment if returned to the United States.

Seven other American military personnel have applied for refugee status, and Hinzman's lawyer estimated dozens of others are in hiding in Canada waiting to see how the government ruled. The attorney, Jeffry House, said Hinzman would appeal the ruling.

House said at a news conference that the Immigration and Refugee Board had not allowed him to argue that the war in Iraq is illegal and would make that complaint before a federal appeals court.

He said there were many problems with the ruling, describing it as filled with ``deference'' to the United States.

Immigration and Refugee Board member Brian Goodman, who wrote the ruling, said Hinzman might face some employment and social discrimination. But ``the treatment does not amount to a violation of a fundamental human right, and the harm is not serious,'' he wrote.

Canada has long opposed American wars; former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau declared his homeland ``a refuge from militarism'' during the Vietnam War and allowed the 30,000 to 50,000 American draft dodgers to settle here. Ottawa also opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, but is also seeking to ease badly strained relations between the two governments.

Hinzman could face charges of desertion if sent home and would face up to five years in prison. He and seven other U.S. military deserters are being represented by House, a Wisconsin native who came to Canada in 1970 to avoid the draft during the Vietnam War.

The Pentagon has urged the deserters to return to the United States and take up their concerns at their respective military bases.

``We are an Army serving a nation at war,'' the Army said in a statement after Thursday's ruling. ``Each of us volunteered to serve, and the vast majority serve honorably. AWOL and desertion are crimes that go against Army values, degrade unit readiness and, in a time of war, may put the lives of other soldiers at risk.''

Hinzman, 26, lives with his wife and young son in Toronto, where Quakers and the War Resisters coalition of anti-war groups have taken on his cause and provided some shelter.

Currently a bicycle messenger, Hinzman told an anti-war rally after the announcement that he would continue to fight for his right to remain in Canada, as well as the seven other young men seeking refugee status.

``Canada has a history for being a haven for people of conscience,'' he said. ``Hopefully that legacy will continue.''

He fled from Fort Bragg, N.C., in January 2004, weeks before his 82nd Airborne Division was due to go to Iraq. He had served three years in the Army, but had applied for conscientious objector status before his unit was sent to Afghanistan in 2002.

Hinzman argued before the board in December that he would have had to take part in war crimes if he went to Iraq, saying the war there is illegal. He said he would be persecuted if forced to return to the United States.

Hinzman also testified he had been willing to fulfill his full four-year obligation to the Army, but not to participate in combat.

``I find Mr. Hinzman's position to be inherently contradictory,'' Goodman said in the ruling. ``Surely an intelligent young man like Mr. Hinzman, who believes the war in Iraq to be illegal, unjust and waged for economic reasons, would be unwilling to participate in any capacity, whether as combatant or noncombatant.''

Hinzman's lawyer estimated as many as 100 American war resisters are hiding in Canada, waiting to see how Hinzman's case is played out before coming forward.

During the Vietnam era, young American men could be drafted into military service, but now enlistment in U.S. military is voluntary. The military attracts many young recruits with job skills training and programs that help pay for university.

Five of the eight men publicly seeking asylum in Canada attended an anti-war rally, where two dozen protesters shouted anti-American slogans across from the U.S. Consulate in downtown Toronto. They were Hinzman; Joshua Key, 26, of Oklahoma City; Dave Sanders, 20, a Navy deserter who had been underground in Canada since March of 2003; Cliff Cornell, 24, from Mountain Home, Arkansas; and Darrell Anderson, an Army soldier who served seven months in Iraq last year.

``I was faced with situations where, if I followed orders, I would have killed innocent people,'' Anderson, 22, told the crowd. ``I refused to do that.''

[mahalomenehune]

We wont have a draft for the Iraq War, we are already planning to pull out troops, i dont kno where this whole draft rumor started

[barraquilla]

that's a good article, i was just speaking with someone about canada and asylum recently.

We wont have a draft for the Iraq War, we are already planning to pull out troops, i dont kno where this whole draft rumor started

there will probably be a draft at some point, i know a couple of people who were due to retire a few years ago and they are still in. there simply aren't enough recruits.

[bigpoppanils]

We wont have a draft for the Iraq War, we are already planning to pull out troops, i dont kno where this whole draft rumor started

a Democratic congressman buy the name of Charles Rangle introduced a draft bill last year.

the bill died in committee.

[bigpoppanils]

that's a good article, i was just speaking with someone about canada and asylum recently.

there will probably be a draft at some point, i know a couple of people who were due to retire a few years ago and they are still in. there simply aren't enough recruits.

doubtful.

unless the US goes to war with China there will not be a draft.

[barraquilla]

you may be right. just from personal experience it seems that something will have to be done within the next 10 years or so. i hope not, but we shall see.

[mahalomenehune]

you may be right. just from personal experience it seems that something will have to be done within the next 10 years or so. i hope not, but we shall see.

i think with the way the war is going now it wont happen

[barraquilla]

^how is the war going?

i think most likely you don't know because it is underreported. i can only go by what i hear from friends and family; its rough and people are dealing with it the best they can, but its nothing like that 2 min. "drive by" the news gives you.

[mahalomenehune]

^how is the war going?

i think most likely you don't know because it is underreported. i can only go by what i hear from friends and family; its rough and people are dealing with it the best they can, but its nothing like that 2 min. "drive by" the news gives you.

well i try and get as good of resources i can, ex. fox news, abc, cnn, bbc

[barraquilla]

its good you're trying to stay informed, just realize that the reporting isn't as in depth as it could be. you may also want to try http://www.iht.com/

[mahalomenehune]

oh yeah the international herald tribune. I think I read in the times somewhere that they get all their info from the times. Seems a good source. Thanks

[siceone]

There's not going to be a draft

just a little fact I found out the other day that only 17% of soliders in world war 2 actually fired their wepons to kill.. draft armies are not effiicient.

[mahalomenehune]

why else would they fire their weapons?

[bigpoppanils]

draft armies are not effiicient.

do you actually wish that there was a higher body count in WW2?!

[mahalomenehune]

i think wut hes trying to say is that u cant force men to fight, they either want to or don't

[siceone]

do you actually wish that there was a higher body count in WW2?!

What kind of idiotic statement is that? I used the example to point out the inefficiency of draft armies. you're such a knee jerk pansy sometimes.

Oh and No I don't.. but maybe if more than 17% of people fired thier guns it wouldn't have lasted so long and would have saved some lives

[bigpoppanils]

[mahalomenehune]

What kind of idiotic statement is that? I used the example to point out the inefficiency of draft armies. you're such a knee jerk pansy sometimes.

Oh and No I don't.. but maybe if more than 17% of people fired thier guns it wouldn't have lasted so long and would have saved some lives

ur saying the longer the war

ur saying the longer the war the more it would of saved lives?

[italia23]

no shot of a draft. it's not necessary, and it's already been shot down. Rangle introduced the bill as a message for the military to stop what he perceives to be "over-recruitment" of minorities.

this argument has been beat to death.

[nycmuzik]

Def. not going to be any type of draft...

I dont know what the other branches are planning on doing but I know the Army is restructuring its entire force....Alot of this was brought on becasue of Iraq and how people are serving multiple extended tours over there....Basically you wont be seeing the big divisions anymore, ie 1st Infantry Divsion...Whats happening now is that we're being broken down into BCT's (brigade combat teams) or units of action so that you have all the infantry, artillery, armor, etc assets in one location working together all the time...this will allow these units to deploy together instead of getting pieced together out in the sandbox thus putting more strain on people...Bottom line is there will be no draft

[siceone]

ur saying the longer the war

ur saying the longer the war the more it would of saved lives?

Where are you coming up with this stuff