Let's start the dance! discuss...

[mtmartin]

OLD DISCO cut title...

Anyways.... What happended to the dancers? Dance culture? is dance culture dead? Has it affected dance music itself and the production of dance music? are djs themselves killings off the healthy dancer culture that once existed in nyc nitelife?

Asked myself this question last night and wondered ...WHAT happened to all the dancers!!!!????

There was a time when you could not go to a club in nyc and NOT see a dance circle. Yes, the kids from 5 boroughs coming with baby powder, backpacks with extra clothes and busting out the moves in their chinese slippers they've been practicing all week ... looking back on it it seems impossible but YES, they co-existed with the club kid freaks, the gay crowd vogueing and doing runway shows in the corner, the business men hanging by the bar picking up drag-queens, the art crowd, and a thug here and there for good measure.

The music being produced for and being played at the clubs was at a slower tempo (in general) than what we are hearing today.

The music being produced at the present doesn't really have any live (acoustic) traits and is produced at 129-140bpm (for the most part)

all you see people doing in clubs nowadays is people doing a two-step schuffle... back and forth, left to right, a spin here and twirl there, bobbing their heads to music that sometiimes is being played so fast that they couldn't move to the music even if they wanted to.

When house was fresh out the box it was usually 120-127 bpm THERE WAS ROOM BETWEEN THE BEATS TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO PERFORM A DANCE MOVE....not a complaint but an observation....

You don't see any dance circles anymore do you? Could djs (I'll respect their opinions and won't shout them out) that ask crowds not to start dance circles on their dancefloors be killing the scene that they themselves should be helping to nurture?

To get a better inclination of might happen in the future you might want to refer to the past to understand what was done right, what was done wrong, how to do it right NOW.

Oh another thing we need to re-instate 18 & over at the clubs.

WE VAMPIRE NEED YOUNG BLOOD TO KEEP THINGS FRESH!!!

yes, alot of them are immature oggling idiots but we need more apples in the basket to get a better pick!

IMHO 21&over is stale... we need to expose the younger crowds to what house and it's gospel is about. if we don't it will die in due time as we get older and new genrations don't support the old school values, the music, the culture.

Now be nice, and don't blindly point and shoot ... discuss like the good HOUSE children that i know you are.

[muzikchick]

I always hated those stupid circles.

[mtmartin]

I always hated those stupid circles.

lord knows that i don't care for the those circles much either i've been kicked enough times walking by trying to get to the ladies room but i'm not promoting circles

what i'm calling your attention to is the lack of dancing in nitelife and how nitelife is an eco-system (if you will) in uts own right. Things must support eachother if it is to survive.

[maurizia]

I guess styles just change with the times. We are in "hip-hop" times, not in a dance expression or experimental music expression time. One would be able to go to a club with their pajamas and that would be accepted. Now there "dress codes" be it required or an unspoken rule. Generally I think most people just follow the crowd no matter what time it is.

I also think because of this time of war and terrorism, subconsciously some people like rules. Even as lame as “dress-codes†are, it creates structure and order in the place. There are no surprises. Something some people want in times of crisis.

However with that said, the art of dance and expression dies away when rules are made. Even with the idea of war to blame for how society is changing put aside, I think people are just afraid to go beyond the "norm" and express themselves.

[mtmartin]

I guess styles just change with the times. We are in "hip-hop" times, not in a dance expression or experimental music expression time. One would be able to go to a club with their pajamas and that would be accepted. Now there "dress codes" be it required or an unspoken rule. Generally I think most people just follow the crowd no matter what time it is.

I also think because of this time of war and terrorism, subconsciously some people like rules. Even as lame as “dress-codes†are, it creates structure and order in the place. There are no surprises. Something some people want in times of crisis.

However with that said, the art of dance and expression dies away when rules are made. Even with the idea of war to blame for how society is changing put aside, I think people are just afraid to go beyond the "norm" and express themselves.

some valid points, guess it's time to change that

[carmine09]

Um i would consider myself a dancer and I personally love the circles!!!! i dont think the dance culture is dead at all... i feel it has fell off a little but there are still some insane dancers out there!!!! Why would u not want the circles!!!! it brings a great vibe to any club!!!!! i eould think.... i dont want to go and just stare at eachouther.... if i wanted that i would go to a lounge!!!! well i hope the dance culture never dies out!!!! Its the only reason i go out is for the music and to dance!!!!

Peace!!

[muzikchick]

circles = sub group within a larger group = insecurity issues. Don't invite me to entertain that theory, I could go on forever.

Personally, give me a platform all by myself. Who want's to "take turns" with a bunch of dumb asses.

Like I said, to each his own.

[skylab]

As for circles it depends because sometimes they take up so much room and leaves some people not wanting to dance. The dancing culture if anything has grown bigger in my opinion. If you really want to look back, there are a lot more clubs open today than there was 20 years ago.

[edubz]

I guess styles just change with the times. We are in "hip-hop" times, not in a dance expression or experimental music expression time. One would be able to go to a club with their pajamas and that would be accepted. Now there "dress codes" be it required or an unspoken rule. Generally I think most people just follow the crowd no matter what time it is.

I also think because of this time of war and terrorism, subconsciously some people like rules. Even as lame as “dress-codes†are, it creates structure and order in the place. There are no surprises. Something some people want in times of crisis.

However with that said, the art of dance and expression dies away when rules are made. Even with the idea of war to blame for how society is changing put aside, I think people are just afraid to go beyond the "norm" and express themselves.

great insight.

Thing is, it depends. the era we are in right now is a "bump and grind" era. booty shaking music, if you will. Like when my friends stepped into life in queens and they were playing dance music, i was feeling it, but they hated it.

I asked them why, and they said " how the hell can you dance to this?' and

"how can I roll up on a girl with this music"

so maybe its just we are being forced fed hip hop and reagatoon that its all people know how to dance. Or maybe its easier to dance and get your grove on with a girl to hip hop and stuff.

Its crazy though how in the genre of "dance music" people are saying that people arent dancing... makes you wonder why so many people claim dance music is DEAD. "_(

[muzikchick]

"roll up on a girl" *cringes*

Skylab? more clubs than 20 years ago? You are kidding, right?

The dance clubs in Brooklyn alone outweigh the numbers of clubs in the city, today.

The freestyle era, you had these performers making appearances through out the city, EVERY weekend....Franz Joli, Lisa Lisa, Safire, Latin Rascals, Information Society, TKA, Stevie B, Madonna, Cover Girls, Jodi Watley, Jungle Brothers, Naobi, just to name a few. THe dance scene was THRIVING at that time...

You also had to dress your best at alot of these places (like the Tunnel when it looked like a tunnel) because you had to wait to be "picked" to go in unless you knew someone even that didn't guarantee anything. Many parties were even kept secret because they didn't want just anyone there. Promoters?? Not like the crap that's out there today, where it's about getting their numbers in. You didn't worry about that then because the lines were always there and people were constantly turned away.

Nothing like it is today.

[mtmartin]

"roll up on a girl" *cringes*

Skylab? more clubs than 20 years ago? You are kidding, right?

The dance clubs in Brooklyn alone outweigh the numbers of clubs in the city, today.

The freestyle era, you had these performers making appearances through out the city, EVERY weekend....Franz Joli, Lisa Lisa, Safire, Latin Rascals, Information Society, TKA, Stevie B, Madonna, Cover Girls, Jodi Watley, Jungle Brothers, Naobi, just to name a few. THe dance scene was THRIVING at that time...

You also had to dress your best at alot of these places (like the Tunnel when it looked like a tunnel) because you had to wait to be "picked" to go in unless you knew someone even that didn't guarantee anything. Many parties were even kept secret because they didn't want just anyone there. Promoters?? Not like the crap that's out there today, where it's about getting their numbers in. You didn't worry about that then because the lines were always there and people were constantly turned away.

Nothing like it is today.

true indeed

[skylab]

well clubbing has become a lot more popular over the years. even if its ruined...

[carmine09]

circles = sub group within a larger group = insecurity issues. Don't invite me to entertain that theory, I could go on forever.

Personally, give me a platform all by myself. Who want's to "take turns" with a bunch of dumb asses.

Like I said, to each his own.

Bunch of dumb asses!! Insecruity issues!! Def not!! but you seem real old school sweetie!! so i guess to each her own!!

[mtmartin]

well clubbing has become a lot more popular over the years. even if its ruined...

\\\

you mean it's become commercialized it has definitely not become more popular...if anything people are hardly going out compared to the circus nitelife nyc was in the past

[robbiewoodside]

circles = sub group within a larger group = insecurity issues. Don't invite me to entertain that theory, I could go on forever.

Personally, give me a platform all by myself. Who want's to "take turns" with a bunch of dumb asses.

Like I said, to each his own.

I have always found the dancers to be some of the most outgoing and non-insecure people in a venue.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this point.

I love dancers! Those are the people in the crowd who I target my music towards. They feed me and I feed them back. They also tend to get others out there dancing. I say the more the merrier!

[skylab]

\\\

you mean it's become commercialized it has definitely not become more popular...if anything people are hardly going out compared to the circus nitelife nyc was in the past

actually i can see your point.. def more commercialized

[silverbull]

I may be wrong in saying this but i dont feel like those sf guido shuffelers are dancers at all. The dancers are still around but there not around in the big rooms per say. Go to shelter, 718 sessions, deepspace, deepsee, dance conference,etc where house music is played from the 120 to 128 bpms. Amazing dancers, personally i dont like these MODERN DAY CIRCLES where a bunch of guys are just jumping around and not really moving to the beat, just wanna show off whatever step they picked up or show of their clothes or bodies or some shit.

Only circles i love are the ones where the dancers have SOUL, like the deephouse dance scene that is something else. WHY DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE DANCE CONFERENCE DRAWS ALL THE BEST DANCERS???? THE MUSIC, cause it aint sf guido fist pumping shuffiling music.

[WarpdriveNYC]

hfth df

[WarpdriveNYC]

I have always found the dancers to be some of the most outgoing and non-insecure people in a venue.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this point.

I love dancers! Those are the people in the crowd who I target my music towards. They feed me and I feed them back. They also tend to get others out there dancing. I say the more the merrier!

Enough said!!!

[WarpdriveNYC]

I may be wrong in saying this but i dont feel like those sf guido shuffelers are dancers at all. The dancers are still around but there not around in the big rooms per say. Go to shelter, 718 sessions, deepspace, deepsee, dance conference,etc where house music is played from the 120 to 128 bpms. Amazing dancers, personally i dont like these MODERN DAY CIRCLES where a bunch of guys are just jumping around and not really moving to the beat, just wanna show off whatever step they picked up or show of their clothes or bodies or some shit.

Only circles i love are the ones where the dancers have SOUL, like the deephouse dance scene that is something else. WHY DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE DANCE CONFERENCE DRAWS ALL THE BEST DANCERS???? THE MUSIC, cause it aint sf guido fist pumping shuffiling music.

In A Way I Agree ,But

Goddamd Bro!!! Leave the Soulless None Dancers alone.

[mtmartin]

I may be wrong in saying this but i dont feel like those sf guido shuffelers are dancers at all. The dancers are still around but there not around in the big rooms per say. Go to shelter, 718 sessions, deepspace, deepsee, dance conference,etc where house music is played from the 120 to 128 bpms. Amazing dancers, personally i dont like these MODERN DAY CIRCLES where a bunch of guys are just jumping around and not really moving to the beat, just wanna show off whatever step they picked up or show of their clothes or bodies or some shit.

Only circles i love are the ones where the dancers have SOUL, like the deephouse dance scene that is something else. WHY DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE DANCE CONFERENCE DRAWS ALL THE BEST DANCERS???? THE MUSIC, cause it aint sf guido fist pumping shuffiling music.

I think Mr. bull has a valid point, you can't find many dance circles in the big rooms. The dancers at shelter, 718 , etc... let's call them the "deep house" parties; The dancers at these parties are very isolated and don't attend the big room parties such at spirit, crobar on a regular or consistent basis.

let's admit it, the circles at SF were of not the best quality with shirtless boys jumping in not as much as to dance but to look for attention and let the girls see you flex your pecks.

but forget cirlces! I made this thread up to address dance culture (which includes but is not limited to DANCE circles)

As a whole club patrons have lost their rhythm. as a generalization, everyone is doing the two-step schuffle, bobbing their heads, jumping up & down.

those of us who were not in those dance circles were still groovin' to the beat and doing some dance moves to EXPRESS OURSELVES THRU THE MOVEMENTS ... and don't tell me drugs have fucked it up ...cuz muthafuckas was high than ever back in the day more than they are now but they were moving, feeling free. This brings us back to how the music influences us and the way we move...could the beats be too fast??

how much bodily expression can you express at 135-140bpm?

are there not enough musical elements in these drum filled, bassline driven tracks? Are these loop driven driven tracks addressing the mind and not the body. When there is alot of movement in the music itself it causes people to move accordingly...think about it... discuss.

[carmine09]

I may be wrong in saying this but i dont feel like those sf guido shuffelers are dancers at all. The dancers are still around but there not around in the big rooms per say. Go to shelter, 718 sessions, deepspace, deepsee, dance conference,etc where house music is played from the 120 to 128 bpms. Amazing dancers, personally i dont like these MODERN DAY CIRCLES where a bunch of guys are just jumping around and not really moving to the beat, just wanna show off whatever step they picked up or show of their clothes or bodies or some shit.

Only circles i love are the ones where the dancers have SOUL, like the deephouse dance scene that is something else. WHY DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE DANCE CONFERENCE DRAWS ALL THE BEST DANCERS???? THE MUSIC, cause it aint sf guido fist pumping shuffiling music.

You are 100% wrong because dance, any kind of dance is "self experession" THAT PERSONS INTERPRETATION OF THE MUSIC!!!! I DONT CARE IF SOMEONE DOES JUMPING JACKS.... ITS THERE OWN SELF EXPRESSION OF THE MUSIC!!!! I am surprised you say this comment but yet again you speak of what you interpret through your very narrow close minded egotistical eyes!!!! i really feel bad for you!!!! its a shame how you continue to put down what you really have know clue about!!!! but i HOPE I NEVER SEE YOU OUT!!!!

Also the thread was starrted with are there still dancers around!!!! the answer is yes!!!! not oh the SF shuffle is not dancing.... do you read your posts before you post them or do you like the way your foot tastes!!!!

[mtmartin]

You are 100% wrong because dance, any kind of dance is "self experession" THAT PERSONS INTERPRETATION OF THE MUSIC!!!! I DONT CARE IF SOMEONE DOES JUMPING JACKS.... ITS THERE OWN SELF EXPRESSION OF THE MUSIC!!!! I am surprised you say this comment but yet again you speak of what you interpret through your very narrow close minded egotistical eyes!!!! i really feel bad for you!!!! its a shame how you continue to put down what you really have know clue about!!!! but i HOPE I NEVER SEE YOU OUT!!!!

Also the thread was starrted with are there still dancers around!!!! the answer is yes!!!! not oh the SF shuffle is not dancing.... do you read your posts before you post them or do you like the way your foot tastes!!!!

halarious carmine! reallyy funny but really don't think it's that serious, silverbull's comments that is... i chimed in with a similar statement.

sure the SF schuffle is dancing and expressing yourslef but i'm trying to make note of the current state of nitelife where AS A GENERAL OBSERVATION it could be said that people aren't moving their asses as in the past.....

consider this analogy

AFTER 911....people were down, people were going out YES, NOT AS MUCH but the THEY WERE STILL GOING OUT ... YET most people that worked in clubs at the time were stating how it didn't feel right, the vibe wasn't there...why? did you think it might have something to do with how people (crowds) feel as a whole? how life was looking bleek for alot of people? how people's emotions were turned upside down?

AFTER 911 people weren't "up for it" like they were before 911 were they?

when people's sprits are down, the party isn't very good is it?

SO... again the purpose of this thread is to trigger people's minds and ask themselves why aren't things the "way they used to be" ? sure we can grow, accept the good old days are gone now and move on....

but in that growth clubland, nitelife, etc. should study what went wrong in the past so that we can optimize the experience TODAY!

IF i state that crowds aren't dancing like they once did

i'm going to go through the process on why that is (PERSONALLY I' M INVOLVED IN NITELIFE AND THE INDUSTRY AROUND IT SO IT DOES MATTER TO ME) those that are just out for a good time on a saturday night might not/ probably won't give a shit, it makes sense. BUT as someone who depends on this industries' health for their livelihood it damn sure matters to me!

consider it

[carmine09]

consider it

I def. agree with what you are saying!!!! but for me and the few that i go out with!!!! we continue to go out for the music and to dance.... ive been through the SF time and now i am enjoying the great talent NYC brings in.... but as for you i see that you are looking at the situation from a different perspective.... but In this scence negativity i feel is what is killing it.... the bashing, the bullshit..... to many ppl forgot how to just enjoy themselves and have fun.... its guido this, asian that bullshit of what im talking about!!!! to me as long as there is space to dance im goin to be moving!!!! And Mr. Silverbull continues to needle his points on this board!!!! granted he knows the history of music which he continues to show us all but? Mr. silverbull do you ever have a good time or do you spend your whole night watching everone else so you can report on this board on how the guido fist pump shuffle wearing headband wristband meatheads does his thing or better yet anyone who is not like you!!

Mtmartin i apologize for commenting off topic!! i think this is an important read!! because the nightlife has changed but we all need to adapt!! and continue to keep it alive with better attitudes across the board!!

[mtmartin]

I def. agree with what you are saying!!!! but for me and the few that i go out with!!!! we continue to go out for the music and to dance.... ive been through the SF time and now i am enjoying the great talent NYC brings in.... but as for you i see that you are looking at the situation from a different perspective.... but In this scence negativity i feel is what is killing it.... the bashing, the bullshit..... to many ppl forgot how to just enjoy themselves and have fun.... its guido this, asian that bullshit of what im talking about!!!! to me as long as there is space to dance im goin to be moving!!!! And Mr. Silverbull continues to needle his points on this board!!!! granted he knows the history of music which he continues to show us all but? Mr. silverbull do you ever have a good time or do you spend your whole night watching everone else so you can report on this board on how the guido fist pump shuffle wearing headband wristband meatheads does his thing or better yet anyone who is not like you!!

Mtmartin i apologize for commenting off topic!! i think this is an important read!! because the nightlife has changed but we all need to adapt!! and continue to keep it alive with better attitudes across the board!!

excellant! thank you for reading, you have very valid points!

this is a kind the of dialogue i like to spark. you and i both know there are those that could care less and are out to party, who cares if this club is here tomorrow? the people that live this life day in and out care!

just like any product you always try to improve the product (sometimes goals aren't met) but the effort was made.

we do need to adapt! we need to take responsibility for the parties that we throw and the trends that we set.

guidos and asians have never hindered my clubbing experience but not everyone sees it like that.