Food for deep thought. Techno in America

[nycetouch]

Looking for some people to get into an analytical discussion.

Why is it that the major media in America has almost completely ignored the rise of electronic music as a factor of American pop-culture? MTV, VH1, most radio stations, as well as newspapers and magazines, have failed to give credit to techno as a rising gengre of music.

BTW: I like the fact that techno is still largely underground, it makes me as well as I'm sure all of you, feel somewhat as a part of something special. However the problem is when you go to a school in the middle of Pennsylvania, as I do, it's hard to believe but the people around here do not even understand how big techno has become in urban culture. And I'm fucking bored out of my mind down here seeing suburban and rural college kids recite every lyric of Snoop Dog and JayZ at the "clubs" here!!

Your thoughts?

peace

[toastednut]

i'm glad to jump into a thought-provoking discussion!

for one, you are right about "major media" not appreciating electronic music as "the next" genre. however, we must remember that the major media in question exists soley because of commerce. network execs and tv/cable stations are not going to give airtime to what they consider a niche genre when they already know they will make a sure buck off of popular genres (POP music.)

it is good to recognize this fault of major medias. then, we must turn to alternative media. local magazines, word of mouth, even smaller radio stations (here in seattle they have a listener-supported radio station -- can you imagine listening to commercial-free music all the time? ) and even the internet are all viable forms of knowledge delivery about the music scenes. BE MEDIA LITERATE! only then will you understand what advertising is constantly being pushed in front of you.

additionally, don't expect everyone to be cutting-edge. most kids like pop music -- that is what they know. not many individuals brave new frontiers, especially at an early age, because they cannot yet deal with possibly being singled out or alienated (we all know it's a myth, but only when you've already done it.) just remember that you don't HAVE to listen to it. you can turn it off. you can leave. i recommend a portable MP3 player -- it's your music, all the time.

have a great day and night.

- liz

[brianz54]

Originally posted by toastednut:

i'm glad to jump into a thought-provoking discussion!

for one, you are right about "major media" not appreciating electronic music as "the next" genre. however, we must remember that the major media in question exists soley because of commerce. network execs and tv/cable stations are not going to give airtime to what they consider a niche genre when they already know they will make a sure buck off of popular genres (POP music.)

it is good to recognize this fault of major medias. then, we must turn to alternative media. local magazines, word of mouth, even smaller radio stations (here in seattle they have a listener-supported radio station -- can you imagine listening to commercial-free music all the time? ) and even the internet are all viable forms of knowledge delivery about the music scenes. BE MEDIA LITERATE! only then will you understand what advertising is constantly being pushed in front of you.

additionally, don't expect everyone to be cutting-edge. most kids like pop music -- that is what they know. not many individuals brave new frontiers, especially at an early age, because they cannot yet deal with possibly being singled out or alienated (we all know it's a myth, but only when you've already done it.) just remember that you don't HAVE to listen to it. you can turn it off. you can leave. i recommend a portable MP3 player -- it's your music, all the time.

have a great day and night.

- liz

I listen to commercial-free music all the time!!! It's called a CD.

Take care,

Brian

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Just in case...

brianz54@hotmail.com

[toastednut]

Originally posted by brianz54:

I listen to commercial-free music all the time!!! It's called a CD.

i was referring to radio, but still.

you did have to put out your cash for that CD, so we come to the final stage of successful advertising - consumer dollars! we'll for-go the media and go straight to your pocketbook.

[nycetouch]

I havent bought a cd in a while. Besides the fact that central pa doesn't offer too much variety in techno music in stores, I find that I can satisfy most of my electro thirst through napster and my burner.

However it would be awesome to have a local radio station that would play techno down here all the time, just so I can find new stuff or just hear something I never heard before.

Our school (PennState) station has one night for a couple of hours of techno, but because of the lack of knowledge around here, I dont think it uses too much popularity,

peace

[innuend0]

Marshall McLuhan explains:

"the message of any medium or technology is the change of scale or pace or pattern that it introduces into human affairs" ..

and, "it is the medium that shapes and controls the scale and form of human association and action".

Therefore, without positive influence from mass the mass media (television and radio still being the primary outlets) the electronic music genre cannot push forward in popularity. Popularity is calculated by the impact of any given medium. However, we need not rely on these soon-to-be-outdated technologies to broadcast on a much larger scale.

I believe that as the internet takes a greater presence in each of our lives, we can benefit from its interactivity on a much larger scale than we could with television or radio. One defines a revolution as a period of great change. The amount of people that are now connected to the internet is expanding at exponential rates, and could serve as the ultimate method of expression and experience. Bring forth the electronic music revolution in its natural state. It is the birthright of the subculture.

[LikmyLipz]

Originally posted by nycetouch:

I havent bought a cd in a while. Besides the fact that central pa doesn't offer too much variety in techno music in stores, I find that I can satisfy most of my electro thirst through napster and my burner.

However it would be awesome to have a local radio station that would play techno down here all the time, just so I can find new stuff or just hear something I never heard before.

Our school (PennState) station has one night for a couple of hours of techno, but because of the lack of knowledge around here, I dont think it uses too much popularity,

peace

ok i'm just gonna break it down to you really quick... No MATTER HOW MANY RADIO STATIONS ARE playing any electronic music be it house, trance, techno, break beats, drum and bass, jungle, etc. They will never be ahead of the times as you can be. Its very hard once your into the scene, and you try and keep up with favorite dj's and whats new to be satsified with whats played on the radio. Out here on long island we have a station called party 105.3fm.. allthough there more ahead of the 'electronic music' you will hear on 103.5 or Z100. there not as up to date as any person can be via napster, etc. I didn't really realise how behind media and the average 'jo' really is untill this summer. A late night at sound factory, i was brought up and introduced to jonathan peters. This was the very fist time he was playing Spente Le Stelle..(the opera song) this was a night in late feb or early march.

and about a month ago you were hearing this on the top 5 at 9pm.. Another reason it will never become as main stream, is because all the 'electronic' producers are very busy people, not only are they producing, there comming out and spinning.. there for your prob not gonna see or hear one of there songs on MTV VH1 or even much music... Just think of it this way.. lol WHENS THE LAST TIME YOU SEEN PUFF DADDY SPININ RECORDS FOR HIS FANS AT A CLUB? hehehe oh well i know they do preform.. BUT NOT LIKE OUR FAV PRODUCERS OR DJS DO!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS XOXO MWWWWAH

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~LiPz~

aim:LikmyLipz

icq:101504929
/>http://hometown.aol.com/lipzlipzlipz/LIPZ.html

[boa_boy]

Originally posted by LikmyLipz:

ok i'm just gonna break it down to you really quick... No MATTER HOW MANY RADIO STATIONS ARE playing any electronic music be it house, trance, techno, break beats, drum and bass, jungle, etc. They will never be ahead of the times as you can be. Its very hard once your into the scene, and you try and keep up with favorite dj's and whats new to be satsified with whats played on the radio. Out here on long island we have a station called party 105.3fm.. allthough there more ahead of the 'electronic music' you will hear on 103.5 or Z100. there not as up to date as any person can be via napster, etc. I didn't really realise how behind media and the average 'jo' really is untill this summer. A late night at sound factory, i was brought up and introduced to jonathan peters. This was the very fist time he was playing Spente Le Stelle..(the opera song) this was a night in late feb or early march.

and about a month ago you were hearing this on the top 5 at 9pm.. Another reason it will never become as main stream, is because all the 'electronic' producers are very busy people, not only are they producing, there comming out and spinning.. there for your prob not gonna see or hear one of there songs on MTV VH1 or even much music... Just think of it this way.. lol WHENS THE LAST TIME YOU SEEN PUFF DADDY SPININ RECORDS FOR HIS FANS AT A CLUB? hehehe oh well i know they do preform.. BUT NOT LIKE OUR FAV PRODUCERS OR DJS DO!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS XOXO MWWWWAH

In terms of penetration of electronic music into the popular psyche Australia is well ahead of the United States, tho we still lag a lot of countries in Europe. In Sydney there is a commercial radio station called Rhthym FM (and it's predecessor community Radio DEX), every single show is hosted by a bona fide DJ, who oftentimes play a 3hr set (graveyard for the up&comers is 6 hours) interspersed with interviews with visiting luminaries and the like. On weekend nites they simulcast from a leading club.......a radio station like this is awesome for the variety of toons & styles of music that are played, over the course of a 24-7 broadcast schedule there are a lot of 3 or 6 hour sets! Oh well I'm off to see Roger Sanchez play a 6 hr Boxing Day special down @ home

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...........And the latest ETA 4 NYC is end Jan 2001 (I love the INS!)-----------------> boa_boy@yahoo.com

[boa_boy]

Originally posted by innuend0:

Marshall McLuhan explains:

"the message of any medium or technology is the change of scale or pace or pattern that it introduces into human affairs" ..

and, "it is the medium that shapes and controls the scale and form of human association and action".

Therefore, without positive influence from mass the mass media (television and radio still being the primary outlets) the electronic music genre cannot push forward in popularity. Popularity is calculated by the impact of any given medium. However, we need not rely on these soon-to-be-outdated technologies to broadcast on a much larger scale.

Over here in Australia the first time a lot of people heard a rave track was "Here's Johnny" by hocus pocus, back in 94-95, the single hit the #1 spot on the singles chart. Now 5 years later the national youth radio broadcaster Triple J has a weekly 3 hr mix up, which generally a recorded set of an international playing in Sydney or Melbourne, like a Cox or an Oakie.....

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...........And the latest ETA 4 NYC is end Jan 2001 (I love the INS!)-----------------> boa_boy@yahoo.com

[ichi_gami]

likmylipz made a valid point in this regard, one that should get a little more focus. The US being a largely laissez-faire market economy, is going get music that returns the most $$ to the media outlet providing it. If musicians were honestly so concerned about getting their music out there, they would have EMBRACED the napster concept. It is about lost revenues, not about artistic integrity. Because of the copyright laws, until an artist (or recording company) releases something for airplay, stations have their hands tied.

Keeping the newest and the best on the radio is made more difficult yet by there being so many DJs and artists creating new music every day of the week. Some of it will catch on with a certain niche, other with another, etc. But most stations are not concerned with the niche, they are concerned with the mass availability and popularity. Until one of our favorite dj's has a major label behind him, he or she will not get the fame or popularity we think he or she deserves. Sony records, for example, has distribution channels worldwide, in every small town on the map. Most of the labels the Techno people are on lack the widespread distribution. Geographically speaking, Europe is far easier to spread music across than the US. Australia has several major cities, and relatively less suburban and rural market in the center of the continent. The population dispersion of the US makes distribution more of a cost obstacle to a smaller company.

Add to all of that, the rather conservative social mores of this nation, especially in the midwest, and it becomes readily apparent why techno as art has not caught on in the US. The US was founded on an ideal of independence from Europe, and traces of that linger today. Techno, being a largely European phenomenon at inception, meets some resistance from the disparate cultures across this large nation, much of it based on the idea of "what the hell is so wrong with what we got here in amurrica?"

The upshot of this is, NYC gets the a number of premier Euro dj's on a semi-regular basis, and the rest of the country listens to their ska, and punk, and country, and zydeco, and classical, and pop and top-40, and R&B, and whatever else they want to listen to. Being in NY, you should count yourself as damn fortunate for that. If you are looking to change things, then here is the perfect opportunity for you to make your mark in the music industry...

at least, that's how I see. I could be wrong.

-ichi-

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What appears to be a sloppy or meaningless use of words may well be a completely correct use of words to express sloppy or meaningless ideas.

[innuend0]

Thank you Mr Dennis Miller.

I agree that in our market economy the large corporate entities will strive for content that will produce the largest gains. Geographically speaking, however, the United States has no distribution obstacles. The rise of hip hop music has proven the inevitability of a successful future for electronic music. It appears to be the next logical progression that 'techno' related music take rise.

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heroin = junkie

ghb = suicidal

coke = wealthy

e = mc2

[ichi_gami]

take it as dennis miller, but...

hiphop got to where it is based on certain effects that are not there in techno "culture" - the desire of a demographic group to establish a music of its own, leaders in the ®evolution of the music (like it or not, there is no dre or master p or anyone identifiable like that in techno), and gimmicks. 2 Live Crew put out an album that people were afraid to sell - every kid wanted it. Rappers from the '80s are still known. tupac, b.i.g., puffy, etc. show(ed) themselves livin' the life - sometimes dying by it. Jay-Z has the diamonds, the cars, the houses in his videos. Kids want to be that, so they listen to that.

DJ's have none of the gimmicks. Yeah, it may be about the money for them, but they are CONSTANTLY performing. They are in the clubs, not playing $60/seat arenas for 20,000 people. They don't have the flash, the gimmicks, the support of the major US labels in getting the music distributed, the money behind those labels getting the music played, and so on. Bust on me for my delivery all you want, but you haven't disproven my logic.

DT, PVD, S&D, BT, Nick Warren, Fortier, and so on may be great DJs, but Skribble gets more press b/c he has "sold out." The Chemical Brothers caused a sensation, then fizzled when they did a couple of sell out songs. Euro culture is different from the US in that Europeans (stereotypically) do not need to be spoon-fed the next trend, whereas Americans (stereotypically) do.

In one line, it boils down to knowing what you like (Eur.) vs. liking what you know (USA).

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What appears to be a sloppy or meaningless use of words may well be a completely correct use of words to express sloppy or meaningless ideas.

[innuend0]

I was referring to your "at least, that's how I see. I could be wrong".. reminded me of Dennis Miller..

your logic is clear

[boa_boy]

I think (and hope) that once a couple of tracks make the crossover from club anthem to chart success the revolution (or prob more accurately the evolution) will begin......

A couple of hit movies could also do the trick

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...........And the latest ETA 4 NYC is end Jan 2001 (I love the INS!)-----------------> boa_boy@yahoo.com

[a691vcc]

WELL I DID NOT READ WHAT EVERYONE HAD TO WRITE. SORRY ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK U ANSWERED UR QUESTION IN UR QUESTION. WHO IZ THE PRODUCER OF THE MUSIC? LITTLE FAT GUYS WHO PUSH BUTTONS. ITZ EASY FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO GRAVITATE TO CERTAIN PERSONAS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES OUT OF THEIR MOUTHZ.

EVEN IF U LOOK AT HIP-HOP, DRE IZ ONLY REALLY GETTING HIZ DUE AZ A MUSICAL GENIUS NOW.WE NEED A POSTER BOY, THEN IT WILL BE IN THE MAINSTREAM AND WE'LL PROBABLY START LISTENING TO SOMETHING ELSE.

[a691vcc]

i read all that shit now, there should be more of this smart talk and less of the bullshit that inhabits these boardz.

[innuend0]

MUST.. KEEP..POST... ALIVE!

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heroin = junkie

ghb = suicidal

coke = wealthy

e = mc2