Did Bush lie to the American public about wmd's?

[bornslippy22]

i am not against or in favor of Kerry but i wont vote for Bush.....so the "shove it" comment doesnt interest me at all

i still have faith that God did create u with a sense of humor...please, please dont let me down....

[Guest web_norah]

"Find your inner Republican"

[Guest endymion]

So I guess the answer is that Saleen has no response to the specific lie that I am documenting. I don't envy anybody who tries to apologize for Bush so I'm trying to make it easy.

Here's a lie from Bush's mouth from his address to the UN in September of 2002:

George Tenet has said, "Let me be clear: analysts differed on several important aspects of these programs and those debates were spelled out in the Estimate. They never said there was an 'imminent' threat."

Bush read the briefings that Tenet is talking about, just like we can now that a lot of it has been declassified. He knew about the dissent. Then he went before the UN general assembly and told the world:

"The history, the logic, and the facts lead to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence."

That was a lie. The evidence did not lead to one conclusion. There was a lot of dissent. There was no one single obvious incontrovertible conclusion coming out of the evidence that George W Bush had access to. He wanted us to believe that there was a slam-dunk case so that we would be willing to go to war. He lied to us to get us to go to war. That's just one example, there are many similar examples documented in Congressman Waxman's report. The explanations in Waxman's report regarding what Bush knew and how it differed from what he was telling us is consistent with the final 9/11 commission report and also with independent accounts such as Woodward's book and Clarke's book.

This is not spin. I am providing examples and documentation that clearly show that Bush and his administration lied to us. Refute it.

[V. Barbarino]

spin and more spin and dancing and more dancing. this is not the cooljunkie spin off, dancing is not permited...

a simple yes or no will do.

[Guest obby]

Who cares ????? I don't !!!!!! An enemy has been taken out.

Is 9/11 that easy to forget ???? This caught the world by surprise. I don't lay any blame on any specific person. Apparently, neither does the 9/11 commission. They actually blame congress, as a whole, more than anything. Congress was asleep at the wheel and not managing their oversight of these agencies efficiently. Regardless, 9/11 happened...now what? Well, Bush took a stand against this enemy. An enemy which has been @ war with us since 1993. 9/11 was obviously the straw that broke the camels back. Bush decided to name 3 countries the axis of evil and vows to fight terrorism abroad, rather than have them attack us at home. He removes the Taliban from Afghanistan, captures/kills approx 2/3 of their leadership. Then the world intel, including U.K., Russia and the UN, all say Iraq remains a threat and continues to violate the 17 resolutions he agreed to, starting in 1991. After 9/11, Bush's goal was clear, TAKE THE FIGHT TO THE ENEMY!!!!! He took a year trying to convince the world and the UN that this threat must not be ignored. Saddam continued to defy the UN and Bush was left w/ a tough decision, take Saddam at his word or remove him from power. Approx. 35 countries stood w/ America in this task and we went after Iraq. Once there, we learn of tons of terrorist ties w/ Iraq (I did not say Iraq and 9/11,,,I said Iraq and terrorism). The 9/11 commission, the UK's Lord Butler report, Our CIA, UK's MI6, Russia's intel all tell Bush of the links between terrorists and Iraq. Bush decides to take him out, but not before presenting it to congress for one last debate. Congress unanimously agrees that regime change must be done and authorized Bush to go ahead. Later the majority of congress also approves the funding for this war(no thanks to Kerry and Edwards who both voted against it). We then take out Saddam and put Iraq on a new course towards democracy. So, by my account, thus far, We've liberated Afghanistan and Iraq (which both just so happen to border Iran (aka,,axis of evil). Call me crazy, but I'm starting to see the Bush's vision of defeating this axis of evil. We've got to crawl before we walk,,right? So, w/ that said, Bush as undoubtedly earned my respect as far as doing all he can to secure our way of life. You add all that plus the record farm bill, education bill, Medicare prescription drug program and tax cuts, and you've got to admit,,,,Bush has done more than enough to get my vote,,AGAIN.

[Guest web_norah]

"find your inner Republican" ..let's celebrate it this week in NY, with a high alert and a Republican convention in town

[Guest endymion]

Saleen started this thread because he wants to know if you think that Bush lied to us to get us to Iraq, not whether you think that we were correct about invading Iraq. I have opinions on both, this thread is about whether Bush lied or not.

I keep providing examples and backing them with solid documentation. Somebody at least try to refute them? This is getting kind of boring otherwise.

Saleen, I hereby affirm my belief that Bush and his administration knowingly misled the American public into going to war with Iraq.

I keep answering your question clearly and directly. Over and over. Providing documentation to back up my position. Refute it.

[V. Barbarino]

misled is not lied.

so yes or no

[move]yesssssssssssssssssssssssssss[/move]

or

[move]noooooooooooooooooooooo[/move]

[Guest bcnjunkie]

LIED BLATANTLY !

[bornslippy22]

"Find your inner Republican"

saw it...u got me to smirk...but hey, its a step in the right direction...

[Guest web_norah]

let's define MISLEAD

according to DICTIONARY.COM: to lead into a mistaken action or belief : to cause to have a false impression..........

my impression of a false statement leads me to believe that in fact, he did LIE

[Guest bcnjunkie]

mislead is a fluffy way of saying he lied !

[Guest endymion]

misled is not lied.

Knowingly misleading somebody when you know that the facts don't support your statements is lying. That's actually the definition of lying.

Hypothetical scenario here. You tell me: "Look, I'm telling it to you straight here when I tell you that I know for certain that Pure Lounge is going to be raided this weekend. I have inside information that you don't have so you have to trust me." If the raid doesn't happen and you can't identify a source then I'm going to realize that you were lying about how certain you were. That's exactly what Bush did to us.

Here's yet another example:

Knowing that engineers from the DIA had checked out the two trailers that we found in Iraq and ruled them out as biological weapons labs, Bush still stood in front of our troops in Qatar and told them:

"Here's what -- we've discovered a weapons system, biological labs, that Iraq denied she had, and labs that were prohibited under the U.N. resolutions."

That was a lie. He read the DIA report that clearly concluded that those two trailers were for producing hydrogen for artillery weather balloons. They were military trailers, they were not mobile WMD labs. Bush knew that when he got up in front of those troops in Qatar and told them that in order to rally them for war. Some of those troops that he was lying to that day are dead now.

I keep telling you that I feel that he lied to me. I have been very clear about it. He knowingly told me untrue statements because he was seeking my support for a conclusion that he made himself. He told me that his conclusion was slam-dunk and that I would be an idiot not to agree with him, and that I should trust him because he had access to information that I didn't.

I now have access to a lot of that information. I read it and I go "Wow, that's the opposite of what Bush was telling me, this evidence that he keeps talking about didn't lead to that conclusion at all". He was lying to me.

It could have turned out well for him if he had been right about the WMD, or about the Al Qaeda link, or about the nuclear weapons acquisitions. He staked his reputation on those things turning out to be true when he told us that he was certain that they were true. They were not true and we can now see that he was lying.

[Guest web_norah]

# Military payroll records that could more fully document President Bush's whereabouts during his service in the Texas Air National Guard were inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.

# In a scathing indictment of the nation's intelligence services, a Senate report concluded Friday the CIA provided false and unfounded assessments of the threat posed by Iraq that the Bush administration relied on to justify going to war.

# The Sinclair Broadcasting Group, which controls about 60 television stations, is banning the Nightline special where Ted Koppel will read the names of US soldiers killed in Iraq from its airwaves. Seems they feel it's a veiled anti-war message. Can't be letting the public know that war kills people, you know.

[Guest web_norah]

I read today that Bush has used the "recess appointment" mechanism to bypass the Senate and install another conservative judge in a US Circuit Court. Last time it was Charles Pickering. This time it is William Pryor.

William Pryor is a guy who opposes the right to choose abortion even in cases of rape and incest, while promoting the death penalty even for juveniles and the mentally retarded. He has pledged to do everything he can to shorten appeals and accelerate executions in all death sentence cases. He ridicules the Supreme Court's ruling that only juries can impose the death penalty (his home state of Alabama has a law that allows the judge to impose the death sentence even when a jury has recommended life in prison.)

Pryor is installed as a judge in the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals, serving Alabama, Georgia and Florida.

[Guest bcnjunkie]

I read today that Bush has used the "recess appointment" mechanism to bypass the Senate and install another conservative judge in a US Circuit Court. Last time it was Charles Pickering. This time it is William Pryor.

William Pryor is a guy who opposes the right to choose abortion even in cases of rape and incest, while promoting the death penalty even for juveniles and the mentally retarded. He has pledged to do everything he can to shorten appeals and accelerate executions in all death sentence cases. He ridicules the Supreme Court's ruling that only juries can impose the death penalty (his home state of Alabama has a law that allows the judge to impose the death sentence even when a jury has recommended life in prison.)

Pryor is installed as a judge in the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals, serving Alabama, Georgia and Florida.

a blood thirsty fascist, oh wait we have one in power already !

[Guest endymion]

This thread only relates to whether Bush lied to us or not. I'm still waiting for Saleen to drop whatever bomb he's got now that I have said that I do think that he lied and provided examples and documentation.

[Guest web_norah]

yeah i am sure it'll take centuries before anyone here takes the blindfold off or quits the spin cycle talk .....

[Guest shannon_coolj.]

TJ, I don't understand why you're intent on Saleen refuting all the long documentations you're providing that proves that Bush misled the public.

Did Saleen say somewhere he was going to refute it? ???

I don't understand...

I thought he was just asking the question of whether Bush lied are not.

Everyone's stating why they think he lied and that's it.

[V. Barbarino]

yes or no, thats all I want to see from him!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

Liar Liar pants on fire......

Hang Bush from a political wire!!!!!!!

[Guest pod]

Hang Bush from a real wire.

[Guest endymion]

TJ, I don't understand why you're intent on Saleen refuting all the long documentations you're providing that proves that Bush misled the public.

Well yeah, actually he ripped into Moore for stating that Bush lied and then not backing it up during the O'Reilley interview. This all sprang out of that. I am also saying that Bush lied to us and I'm backing it up. Without using media reports so that he can't blame liberal media slant for anything.

So just in this thread I've documented three lies and I keep saying over and over that I believe that Bush lied to us. I have been saying that repeatedly for the last four pages but I guess Saleen has a language impediment or something and can't understand.

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

Hang Bush from a real wire.

A barbed wire!

[Guest web_norah]

**still waiting for the real answer from Saleen and supporting statements