24-hour club district may face closing time

[Guest Major]

well you weirdos need to be in church on sunday mornings anyway

It's a long drive to Denver. However, they have a better line-up than we do.

don't want to threadjack, but denver has a great scene atm.

I was alluding to 'The Church'

[Guest pod]

Sadly, in terms of clubbing, cities like to pass the buck. I remember when they canned (legal) afterhours on Miami Beach. The commissioners and even the clubs said, "Well, if they want that, let them go to Space..." At the time, (2001) Downtown was just Space.

So, if the unthinkable happens, where do the hardcore clubgoers go now? They have to end up somewhere, and I would rather have them in a legally-sanctioned venue, rather than at a dicey warehouse or worse. Dicey afterhours might have "street cred" galore, but in the end, it would suck to be part of the haul if there's a raid or something. Police records are only cool if you're a hip-hop artist.

[Guest coach]

I still agree with what Pod said at first, it is probably going to come down to whoever has the best lawyers. In which case, no matter how much money Space makes, you still wouldn't want to bet against the developers.

There are some things that the clubs can do to help salvage the situation. They need to work on their marketing. To the developers, specifically. They need to remind the developers that the *only* reason people are moving into this overpriced, hurricane-ridden, armpit-humid butt-end of the world is because of the entertainment. If they just wanted a water view, there are MUCH nicer places to be.

So, the clubland needs to point out to the developers that they should be partners and the developers should *support* the clubs, not fight against them.

As has been mentioned, reminding the commissioners of the same thing would be a good plan, too.

If they close down all the clubs, all the cool people (and celebrities) will leave, which means all the rich people will leave. Then you just end up with a bunch of broke developers and an even worse economy for the city.

[Guest pod]

Miami is an entertainment city. People come here to have fun, and go to our arguably unique clubs. If we take away that uniqueness, the celebs don't show, and like you said, if the celebs don't show, the rich people don't, and then you're left with big empty buildings.

[Guest endymion]

If we take away that uniqueness, the celebs don't show, and like you said, if the celebs don't show, the rich people don't, and then you're left with big empty buildings.

I'd love to agree with that but most of the people moving into the condos aren't ever going to go to any Park West venue, and they would rather see those venues close at some point than stay open until noon the next day. Miami is a destination with or without 24-hour clubs downtown.

People used to say the same thing about Opium Garden. 'If you limit the sound there then there will be no reason for people to move to South Beach south of Fifth'. That notion was very wrong.

[Guest pod]

Rich is just a catchall term unfortunately. I know people who make millions of dollars a year, who prefer not to traverse the upscale scene, but hang in the more "down to earth" places like Space, Pawn Shop, etc.

But I see what you mean, the people who are most apt to buy condos in the area, aren't the sort to hang out in the nearby venues. They're more of the Glass/Privé set.

Unfortunately, the clubs having a five-year lead time isn't likely to help much. "We were here first" didn't work for Opium. It really comes down to how much the clubs are willing to fight, and keeping the government on the clubs' side.

There are problems that need to be addressed, but scaling back the closing time isn't the solution.

[Guest coach]

As I said, the problem is not that the condo owners don't want to go to the clubs. The problem is, if you take away all the uniqueness of the city, then all the negatives (hurricanes, poverty, location) will overwhelm any reason left for someone with money to live here.

[bobbalou]

[Guest Editor]

Don't underestimate the one most effective and insidious means by which politicians get their way --selective misdirection of public opinion.

Congratulations, you guys just got a drug problem handed to you...

City Commissioner Linda Haskins, whose district includes downtown's club strip, is leading the charge. She argues it is drug use -- not a love of thumping music -- that drives folks to keep dancing well into the daylight.

''What is the reason to have a 24-hour club district?'' Haskins asked. ``We have kids coming off the beach, stoned, on God-only-knows what. . . . I don't know why we encourage this sort of activity in the city.''

[Guest endymion]

The problem is, if you take away all the uniqueness of the city, then all the negatives (hurricanes, poverty, location) will overwhelm any reason left for someone with money to live here.

With the performing arts center opening, I really don't think that the Park West club district matters to downtown condo owners or developers. Except as a nuisance. Especially after the recent crime in the area.

[Guest pod]

Gentrification gone wrong. I'm all for the PAC and such, but not at the expense of displacing other forms of entertainment. Not everyone in town is into theatre and dance. Myself included. However, I expect a certain modicum of respect from other cultural institutions. I'm not a theatre person, but I respect what they do. Conversely, I wish and hope that they respect the cultural choices of people that enjoy going to dance clubs.

You can't encourage and develop one art form at the expense of destroying another.

It's up the clubgoers to prove that they're not all "stoned" on "god knows what".

I know a lot of people, who get up and go to Space at like 7 AM.

I've seen this all before. Nancy Lieberman (old-school beach people will remember her) said essentially the same thing about the afterhours clubs on the beach. "Who stays up at that hour?"

Eventually, the only entertainment options will be the PAC and the occasional concert coming through. Dance music? Forget about it. Little rock shows at Studio A? Not if this goes through. The Beach and Downtown will be one giant condo with a 2 AM closing time. No real impetus to move down here if you can't see the ocean, and there's zero entertainment options. All Miami has is tourism and entertainment. The clubs and nightlife form the only reason people come down here. Take that away and I can't think of any other reason to come. I came here to go to school, but stayed because of my then-burgeoning career in the club scene. If I wanted a job as a tech or a visual engineer for a touring sound company (my only other viable career choices) I would have moved ages ago. And if I wanted to photograph something else, I would have moved. I could easily do fashion or PJ work in an area that is far cheaper to live in.

Again, it's a mid-term election, so a lot of this reeks as grandstanding for votes.

Without clubs and liberal closing times, Miami sucks.

[Guest endymion]

Pod, the underlying premise from your last post is incorrect:

The clubs and nightlife form the only reason people come down here. Take that away and I can't think of any other reason to come.

When you spend a lot of time immersed in the nightlife industry it's easy to lose track of the role that clubs and partying play in the grand scheme of things.

Don't forget that the building boom that originally created Miami Beach happened during prohibition, and it targeted the same gentrified luxury crowd that we're talking about now. There were some rowdy casinos on the ocean side of Miami Beach in those days that were analogous to Park West in Miami, and those casinos are long gone now.

[Guest pod]

Of course I'm biased. ;D

Living here is one thing. You can have the slickest condo in the world, but what's the point if there's nothing to do?

Other than the clubs, give me a good example of something I can do for fun in Miami, that I cannot do better anywhere else?

[Guest endymion]

You can have the slickest condo in the world, but what's the point if there's nothing to do?

The people who own the slickest condos don't go to Park West venues.

Other than the clubs, give me a good example of something I can do for fun in Miami, that I cannot do better anywhere else?

Meet Cuban girls?

[Guest coach]

Other than the clubs, give me a good example of something I can do for fun in Miami, that I cannot do better anywhere else?

*Thank* you. That was the point I have been trying ineptly to make. And don't forget, in other places, you can even do them without hurricanes.

[Guest pod]

I can do that in Cuba. And cheaper.

And frankly, I could have the nicest place in the world, but I'd get bored of seeing the same damn thing every day, with no other options for entertainment.

I know that Flamingo/Setai/Bleu types don't frequent ParkWest clubs, but the overall theory I'm getting at is that if the government goes after a big, very powerful behemoth like Space, it'd be peanuts for them to skin some place where the condo-types hang out. It's a bad thing all around, and unfortunately, a lot of people can't see beyond their own scenes to see that. Like I said before, I never liked Metropolis, but I realized it was a bad thing when they got shut down.

[Guest addictedtospace]

Stuff like that is on the books and being budgeted for. With the City government, the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. You've got the CRA OKing new clubs, and then you've got other agencies approving condo projects.

I don't see a clean fuck-the-clubs-yay-white-people-and-condos fight like on Miami Beach. It's gonna get dirty. Who will win? Too early to tell.

I think many people are forgetting that most condos in Downtown are being purchased by Speculators, Investors that are going to fall flat on their asses or at least have to sit on a condo for a while and by rich Snow Birds. All these people will need and want a more vibrant and alive city. How many middle class people are actually going to be able to afford any of the condos currently being constructed in that are near Park West??? They are going to simply kill the overall movement towards making Miami more like New York City with eliminating the clubs completely. The club owners should keep pushing 21+ only crowds. More security around the clubs and finally move the bums to the new Camilus House near Jackson Memorial. Except for Pops, he can stay to wash cars!

[Guest pod]

Come out of hiding!

I'm not a realtor, but the general din lately is that a lot of these joints are by investors, not residents.

[Guest hiram]

ummm has anyone thought how this could affect WMC?? i mean this could be the end of WMC as we know it if venues arent allowed to stay open as long

[Guest pod]

I'm sure it has been thought about. The best parties conference-wise have been off the beach in past years.

[Guest endymion]

ummm has anyone thought how this could affect WMC?? i mean this could be the end of WMC as we know it if venues arent allowed to stay open as long

It probably won't affect WMC 2007 because the changes will take months. Might affect WMC 2008.

[Guest Major]

I'm sure it has been thought about. The best parties conference-wise have been off the beach in past years.

The best parties i have been to during WMC since 1999 have all been on the beach except Ultra, and John Digweed at Pawnshop last 2 years.

[Guest hiram]

yeah, thats what i was thinking.. im thinking itll be done away with all together

[Guest pod]

Yeah, for now everything is status quo. Post conference '07, is when the real changes (if any --- hope not) happen. It gives the clubs time to prepare their challenges.

Let's see what happens after the elections.

[all4tribal1414779019]

Exactly. Talk to people in Gainesville, Orlando, etc.

Half the reasons those passed is because the club communities in there were too small to fight back. Here we've got multi-million dollar venues as par for the course, run by actual businesspeople. In other words, we have no excuse to take this lying down. I tell people all the time how unique and exciting the Miami club scene is, and part of that is the potential and reality of the downtown area. Where else in the US can you see a top DJ perform until noon or so, in a legal, sanctioned venue?

In the past year, I've logged some travel miles and talked to DJs, and they all want to play Miami, so they can "really stretch their legs..." With the acceptance of CDs and Serato, a performer can play a "Miami set" with whatever their carry-on luggage is.

this is all soo true, i mean this isnt some fly by night operation where the city doesent make a shit ton of money...personally i can see them coming to some kind of agreement with space...truthfully as long a space gets to stay im happy, i just dont see what the big deal is, even with the condos, when i park at the lot by those condos its not like u can hear the music that far away anyway

yea - actually im not sure if you've been to any of the condos that are already built, for instance that yellow one that is a block from space, not sure the name of it though but you can deffinately hear the music/bass from the club(s)...ive been up there to different condos and you can hear the music and feel the bass, nocturnal's patio's system is a bit louder than space's - i was in the 30th floor or so. the people weren't too happy.