24-hour club district may face closing time

[Guest hiram]

is there any posibility of relocating the 24 hr zone?? im sure the city makes a substantial amount of money off the district taxwise

[Guest pod]

That's the odd thing, a few months ago they were proposing expanding it westward.

[Guest hiram]

i was talking to some fool the other week at school. he claimed he was opening a new club down the street from space. i asked him if he was worried about all the new condos going up.. he looked at me as if i insulted him, claiming the new condos were a good thing. i wanted to slap him

[Guest dancefloored]

Miami is an entertainment city. People come here to have fun, and go to our arguably unique clubs. If we take away that uniqueness, the celebs don't show, and like you said, if the celebs don't show, the rich people don't, and then you're left with big empty buildings.

Miami will be drained of people going elsewhere because thats all people come to MIAMI for. Entertainment you're right. Not because its a safe clean beautiful place to visit and live. . There goes Miami's income if they screw up the scene by reforming the hours

[Guest pod]

For sure. Compared to locations just as attractive and far safer, Miami is a war zone. If I just wanted beaches and palm trees, I'd live in the Keys or on the West Coast of Florida.

Half of the attraction of living here is the oddball collusion of grittiness, and high glamour. To cite an earlier example, remember when Times Square was cool? Now it's Disney with plasma screens and MTV. I'm not suggesting whores on every corner, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

There's been a recent spate of killings downtown, sure. But it's a bump, dare I say Darwin at work.

Before that, there was years of comparative calm. They should be addressing it from a crime control perspective, and not kowtowing to the condo associatons, who merely exist to suck the fun out everything, it seems. Every condo I've been in it's like "You can't..." and the text is 20 pages long. They should just make a 1 page document of things you can do.

[Guest dancefloored]

they cant even get rid of all the condos in Boca Delray area and those are very nice places to live. Who wants to buy a condo downtown MIAMI and have a westerly view of hell!? Maybe the easterly view could be somewhat nice looking over the water from a distance

[Bling]

well you weirdos need to be in church on sunday mornings anyway

LOL i dunnothat might not be too safe. with what goes on in afterhours the second they walk thru the doors they may internally combust

I Keed ;D

[Bling]

I'm sure it has been thought about. The best parties conference-wise have been off the beach in past years.

omg are u serious. i havent hit any parties in downtown in two yrs during conference....

the free day parties at these hotels are beyond sick. u just have to look around..... its not always about the "biggest parties" .......

and its not just deep house either. u can catch so many of the djs that you may pay big bucks for in a small day party.... either for a nominal fee or nothing at all. obviously u wont see a tiesto or pvd but still...........

[Guest Major]

I'm sure it has been thought about. The best parties conference-wise have been off the beach in past years.

The best parties i have been to during WMC since 1999 have all been on the beach except Ultra, and John Digweed at Pawnshop last 2 years.

That's what i was saying... it's one of the best weeks of the year to be on the beach... all the pool, penthouse,beach, hotel parties during the day... then at nite you have all the clubs within walking distance. We hardly leave the beach, maybe for afterhours if you have energy, but then you miss all the fun in the sun the next day.

[Guest pod]

I crossed the bridge maybe twice this past conference. Best parties were at Space, Pawn, and Noc, bar none, and GG of course. ;D

Bling's POV is a perfect example of why measures like this succeed though. He hangs with the deep house crowd, so if Downtown was to be restricted, it wouldn't affect him directly. Just like conversely if they found roaches at Glass and they got shut down, it wouldn't affect me. However, I'm looking beyond my own self-interests in this situation.

However, in the long run it does affect the viability of the nightlife scene as a whole. I tried explaining this to someone else, but they wouldn't listen. Club closures in general are bad. Space and Mansion are the only megaclubs in town. If either were to close, the damage to the club scene here would be tremendous. Tourists don't jump off the plane and go "OK I want to go to Blue", they're all about Mansion and Space, because that's all they see on TV and on the web. I had tourists with me this weekend, and we went to Mansion and Space. They have places like Blue at home.

If all's we had left were little holes in the wall, the scene would collapse. The amount of touring DJs hitting this town would go from 2398407 to 5 in six months. Large venues put this town on the map, club-wise. Paragon, Warsaw, Level, Shadow Lounge, crobar...there's exceptions to the rule (Groove Jet), but for the most part, this town's dance scene attained global prominence from 1000+ capacity venues.

- Restrictions on the Park West area = bad. Bad for everyone.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

I can't help it anymore... I gotta burst out. This notion that Miami will somehow wither up and die or even go stale if closing times downtown are moved to 5am is fucking stupid and immature. The idea that 24-hour partying is the only thing that makes Miami what it is is just idiotic.

I just got back from a jog on the beach and I pondered, "What will people come to Miami for if downtown clubs are forced to close at 5am?"....

1) Super wide beaches

2) Weather

3) Cruises

4) Shopping!!!

5) Celebrity Watching (the suggestion that celebs will leave if the clubs have to close at 5am is LOOOOOOOOOOL. what time does LA close?)

6) Smokin hot women

7) Latin culture

8) Boating

9) Fishing

10) Diving/Snorkeling (our proximity to the keys still gets us a big chunk of people on their way down there)

... oh yeah, almost forgot... and THE FUCKING CLUBS that will still stay open til 5am!!!

</rant>

For the record... I am 10000% in favor of the 24-hour district being left alone, if not expanded. But these wildly idiotic doomsday scenarios are just absurd.

Dan, you know we're cool... but get some healthy hobbies... please.

[Guest sobe2004]

I can't help it anymore... I gotta burst out. This notion that Miami will somehow wither up and die or even go stale if closing times downtown are moved to 5am is fucking stupid and immature. The idea that 24-hour partying is the only thing that makes Miami what it is is just idiotic.

I just got back from a jog on the beach and I pondered, "What will people come to Miami for if downtown clubs are forced to close at 5am?"....

1) Super wide beaches

2) Weather

3) Cruises

4) Shopping!!!

5) Celebrity Watching (the suggestion that celebs will leave if the clubs have to close at 5am is LOOOOOOOOOOL. what time does LA close?)

6) Smokin hot women

7) Latin culture

8) Boating

9) Fishing

10) Diving/Snorkeling (our proximity to the keys still gets us a big chunk of people on their way down there)

... oh yeah, almost forgot... and THE FUCKING CLUBS that will still stay open til 5am!!!

</rant>

For the record... I am 10000% in favor of the 24-hour district being left alone, if not expanded. But these wildly idiotic doomsday scenarios are just absurd.

Dan, you know we're cool... but get some healthy hobbies... please.

I think that is very well put . . . most tourists don't give a shit about the district . . . only the crackies do . . .

[Guest Major]

I've been bartending on the beach for 3 years. Most people go back to thier hotel around 2 or 3am the latest, they're not use to extended hours... let alone going to crack-town 5 or 6 in the morning.

[Guest endymion]

only the crackies do . . .

Muahaha!

11) Gateway to Latin America

[Guest pod]

1) Super wide beaches

- I can get that in Cozumel, Ibiza, etc.

2) Weather

- Anywhere at this latitude

3) Cruises

- Yeah let's be stuck on a "Funship" with 5,000 people I don't like.

4) Shopping!!!

- This magical thing called the Internet. I can shop and not stand in line. Paying $20 for shipping is worth it to me.

5) Celebrity Watching (the suggestion that celebs will leave if the clubs have to close at 5am is LOOOOOOOOOOL. what time does LA close?)

- You know how I feel about celebs.

6) Smokin hot women

- Sweden, Moscow, Italy, Spain, France, Mexico, Colombia, Brasil, Argentina, Japan, hell fucking Texas even. If I'm going on a sex tour, there's a lot of places on my radar before Miami.

7) Latin culture

- LA has it too.

8) Boating

- I don't have a boat.

9) Fishing

- I can fish in any ocean.

10) Diving/Snorkeling (our proximity to the keys still gets us a big chunk of people on their way down there)

- Any island in the Carribean or the Med or any ocean for that matter.

In other words, there's few things we do better than anyone else. The one thing we do better almost than anyone else is nightlife. Now they want to kill the golden goose.

I'm never said Miami would wither and die if the times got rolled back, I was saying that it would establish a dangerous precedent. If one of the most powerful clubs in the city is beaten back by the government, what next? 2 AM? The county steps in and makes 2 AM mandatory across the board? Then what? Lawyers, doctors, and other "professionals" might not care for Downtown, but if these measures go through, the places they hang out at could very well be next.

I'd be saying the same thing if Miami Beach came under the microscope again in regards to closing times. Hell, 2 years ago when Roman Jones sent out that mass email for us all to show at MB City Hall, I went! I've never met the man and I rarely go to his clubs, but it was a clear danger of having the closing times rolled back (I don't care what Dermer said, he's a shill for the condos and Delvecchio), and 500 people showed up from all the clubs to make it known that it wasn't cool what the city was proposing. He shelved the issue, actually. For now, the closing time is 5 AM until the next mayor sits in and undoubtedly revives the issue.

Now I'm not suggesting we storm the gates over on Bayshore Drive, but this is an issue that affects every club. Maybe not now, but a few years down the road, then what? Sure, you might be old and not go out anymore, but the younger generation is gonna have a shitty scene, and no one to blame for it but us, who sat on our asses because "it didn't affect us directly". It's an economic, cultural, and artistic loss. I've explained the damages to each of those in prior posts.

When you're participating in a culture not "in favor" with the majority of the population, you have to be on guard for this sort of thing. In the end, it represents a trampling on our freedoms as human beings. If I want to go out at 6 AM and drink till I'm seeing triple (thank god for autofocus), that's my own damn perogative and it's my own damn fault for any damages to myself or others. Unfortunately, the American people have forgotten about personal responsibility, and expect the government to take care of anything "evil" or "bad".

We don't need a nanny state dictating our every move, and that's what closing times represent, more nanny state bullshit. If it's economically viable to stay open to noon, then go ahead and do it. Other communities in the globe do just fine with no restrictions on bar operating hours. Hell, if I'm not mistaken, the UK recently lifted closing times around the country for most bars and clubs. They close when it's not economically feasible to stay open. Same with Vegas. Sure, the clubs suck ass, but they stay open till whenever's convenient. If Ice or Pure could make money at 10 AM, you bet the doors'd be open.

This is easy to beat back right now, while it's just a sensational media story with little backing it up from the government. Six months from now, it will be harder.

[Guest pod]

Oh, and I've seen fairly well-to-do people out past the sunrise. Downtown partying isn't for crackheads and poor people. If some of you want to think I'm a drug addict, that's fine by me.

[Guest hiram]

when i go out i like to leave when i want to leave, not when the club tells me i have to go

[Guest LeVeL]

Pod is right, its would a travesty for Park West to not be 24 Hours anymore. Space and the clubs around it may survive and stay in business but Space specifically would be affected, since Afterhours is a major part of its reputation. Space afterhours in all reality is not full of crackhead, a lot of people look forward to waking up in the morning and going to Space, a lot of people from other venues go there to continue their partying.

But this move by the government to revoke these clubs from operating 24 hours would ruin the whole movement that Louis Puig started when he took the risk of opening a Nightclub on 11 street Downtown 6 years ago. It might be a hit on the nightclubs on downtown but it would be a matter a time before they enforce earlier closing times on the Beach.

And if this is on the Ballot when elections come then we need to step up and I mean we the citizens of Miami need to do something about it. Yeah Broward folks and West Palm folks come down to party to Miami all the time and if you dont think this move wont affect you then think again.

All of US will be affected

You dont know how many times I have gone to Mansion and to see the light turn on right before 5am is just horrible, especially when you still have feeling to keep on partying and dancing the day away. At this moment we have the option of going to downtown to continue our partying but if they revoke those clubs from operating 24 hours then we ont have no place to go but home.

Its a threat to our nightlife but also it would affect the teenagers and jits who will be the future of the nightlife in Miami. A standard has to be set, it sucks that Government keeps pushing for earlier closing times either it be in Downtown or Miami Beach, this issue will continue to come up and with more condo's being built, sooner or later those people who will start living in those condo's and they will vote YES to Earlier closing times, since they wont understand our nightlife.

[Guest pod]

We don't agree on a lot, Level, but at least we agree on that.

I know y'all probably think I'm just going to bat here for LP and co., but I really have the interests of our club scene as a whole. Any rollback of hours, whether it is downtown or in Miami Beach, is unacceptable. Our people are conditioned to stay out till 5 AM and later. TJ posted earlier about when they rolled back Gainesville's hours...it was a disaster. Where's Gainesville today? Certainly not on the global club map like it was.

Unfortunately, a lot of people can't see beyond their own sub-sub-sub-culture, so they don't see the clear and present danger this proposes. All's they see is their petty personal rivalries and vendettas (real or imagined), and other such bullshit.

I keep myself to a specific set of parties because A) It is what "I" like, and it's a business move in my case. Just because I don't show up to your parties often (whomever you may be), doesn't mean I don't support.

[Guest coach]

"What will people come to Miami for if downtown clubs are forced to close at 5am?"....

Well...... I hate to disagree with you, but I think maybe you have not looked around our beautiful state enough.

1) Super wide beaches

- Better on the west side, Ft Myers, Sanibel, etc.

2) Weather

Better on the west side.

3) Cruises

Easier in FTL, and now they have them leaving out of many places, including Galveston, TX.

4) Shopping!!!

WAY better in NYC. In FL, also better on the west side or in Orlando.

5) Celebrity Watching (the suggestion that celebs will leave if the clubs have to close at 5am is LOOOOOOOOOOL. what time does LA close?)

Um, celebs do have other reasons to be in LA. They come here to party, period.

6) Smokin hot women

Okay, I'll give you that. Of course, a lot of them are here because of the party.

7) Latin culture

Um, yeah. Tons of that all over the country. Better in San Antonio actually. Way better.

8) Boating

Better on the west side.

9) Fishing

Better in the Keys.

10) Diving/Snorkeling (our proximity to the keys still gets us a big chunk of people on their way down there)

WAY way better on the west side.

See, your entire premise is incorrect. It is not just about the *actual* closing time. It is about the domino effects that causes.

1) As Pod pointed out, you significantly hinder the clubs' ability to make money. One reason we can have so many quality clubs in our little burg is that there is plenty of time for everyone to get out. Start at Mansion or Crobar, end at Space or Nocturnal. If you shove them all back to the same closing time, then they fight for the same audience, impairing them all.

2) As is clearly evidenced by Space's and Nocturnal's sales trends, there are a significant number of people who like the after hours. The thing is, these people are here all week, adding to the atmosphere. If the closing times are moved back, many will still party, just earlier, but some will quit and/or move. As the party fades out, you get a further domino effect.

3) REPUTATION - Lots of people *do* come here just because of Miami's party reputation. The 24-hour license is a big part of that reputation. If you want to just party until 4am, there are other options. And the thing is, even if people do not take advantage of the 24 hour party, the reputation still affects their decision to come.

Remember that the nightlife industry is a pretty thin business. You take away even a few percentage points and you could easily kill it all off. We have a nice delicate balance right now. Maaaaaybe if we disturb it by rolling the hours back, it might absorb that. But that isn't a risk some of us are willing to take when there is no need. I mean, history supports the notion that limiting nightlife can have a tremendously negative effect. Someone gave the example of Gainesville.

[Guest pod]

Miami isn't all that unless you're into nightlife.

When I got here, I had delusions of being a film director. Even went to school for it. Have a degree in motion picture production somewhere. Also in fine art photography. My "partying" freshman year at UM was largely dorm parties. Though I had an advantage as my best friend was/is a sound engineer and we pretty much had the Space sound system crammed into a UM dorm, along with 4 Trackspots and a hazer. Our dorm parties ruled.

But staring at the 4 walls got boring after awhile, so some kind lady suggested we go out to a club. I forget which one, but it was some middle-of-the road joint on Washington. It was a helluva lot more fun than any place I had been up to that point. The people were (gasp!) friendly and inclusive. Very unlike the New York joints I had been to before then. Then around '99 it occured to me to take my beat up old Pentax out to a seedy afterhours club for a class project. That made it 47325747 times more fun, for me. When graduation time came, I had the option of going to LA and farting around on film sets, or staying here and taking a chance on doing social photos in nightclubs. Someone suggested I could get good at it, so I gave it a shot. So basically, I stayed here for the clubs, whereas everyone else, save the locals, whom I graduated with, left like their asses were on fire.

To reiterate, this city is mediocre unless you work the scene. Our public transit infrastucture sucks, our government sucks, the weather is deplorable for half the year, and it's pretty expensive.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

"What will people come to Miami for if downtown clubs are forced to close at 5am?"....

Well...... I hate to disagree with you, but I think maybe you have not looked around our beautiful state enough.

1) Super wide beaches

- Better on the west side, Ft Myers, Sanibel, etc.

2) Weather

Better on the west side.

3) Cruises

Easier in FTL, and now they have them leaving out of many places, including Galveston, TX.

4) Shopping!!!

WAY better in NYC. In FL, also better on the west side or in Orlando.

5) Celebrity Watching (the suggestion that celebs will leave if the clubs have to close at 5am is LOOOOOOOOOOL. what time does LA close?)

Um, celebs do have other reasons to be in LA. They come here to party, period.

6) Smokin hot women

Okay, I'll give you that. Of course, a lot of them are here because of the party.

7) Latin culture

Um, yeah. Tons of that all over the country. Better in San Antonio actually. Way better.

8) Boating

Better on the west side.

9) Fishing

Better in the Keys.

10) Diving/Snorkeling (our proximity to the keys still gets us a big chunk of people on their way down there)

WAY way better on the west side.

Wow... talk about missing the point. Go ahead, pick my points apart one by one. NO SHIT you can find better places for each point on a singular basis. But now try sticking to the point... name ONE FUCKING CITY that has them ALL.... AT THE SAME TIME. Don't bother... it's impossible.

And since you opened yourself up to it, I might as well...

Shopping - better in West Florida and Orlando than Miami? dude, please, that's just retarded. We're talking about people that drop big bucks, not bargain shoppers.

Celebs - how many celebs do you see on the Space patio at 7am? <1% of all the celebs in town. And that's being generous. Trust me, most of them could give a shit what time Space closes.

Boating - better on the West side? How long does it take to boat to the Bahamas from West Florida? Miami? Case closed. FL is the yacht capital of the world for a reason.

Snorkeling/Diving - better on the West Coast? Not even close. Visibility in the Gulf is a fraction of what it is in the ocean.

For the record once more.... I AM AGAINST THESE CHANGES!!!!!!

I just can't stand these wild exaggerations about the impending doom if anything at all changes... and I really can't stand slippery-slope argument whores. What happened in Gainesville WILL NEVER happen here. Gainesville is in the Bible Belt. Miami is not.

Rest assured, this IS election-time grand-standing and I doubt anything will come of it after all. But if the worst case scenario is 5am closing times in downtown, then I'll be bummed for a bit and just go back to enjoying ALL THE OTHER THINGS that rock about Miami... and actually get some shit done on the weekends.

/DISCLAIMER

Don't take my cursing too seriously. It ain't personal, it just flows better that way.

[Guest pod]

I don't think people at Space or any of the clubs downtown are concerned about the celeb content. To them, it's nice when they show up, but not the driving force, like with the Opium Group family of venues. Nocturnal is trying to go that road, but I don't see it working for them. You're right, celebs don't go downtown. And in a way, that is good.

When the Downtown area was first started, the people doing parties down there were presenting as an alternative to the celeb-and-glam driven South Beach. I tried to pull up some Herald articles about it, but anything old they want money for. The gist of one club developer's statement was that the Beach and the Grove were "too commercial" for what he was looking to do, and that the Downtown area suited the project perfectly.

To them, there's a market out there of people that want quality venues, but sans the Beach glam factor. You'll agree with this, people going out for the music or just to enjoy themselves and party, like and need nice, well-equipped venues to hang at. They shouldn't be corraled to holes in the wall, or have to know someone to party at nice venues. One of the "magical" things about partying in the afterhours is that it tends to level things out. I've hung out with people making 20 times my annual salary as if they lived in the next apt over.

At first it was only Space, but later on, other venues came (and went). Now the area is finally coming into it's own. You've got dance venues, a strip club with full nudity and liquor, and a rock venue. The latter two cannot be done on Miami Beach due to laws or the social mores of the area. Try a rock venue on Miami Beach, and they'll throw a velvet rope up and demand a dresscode. That's sacreligious. Something's fucked up when even the bowling alley has a doorman. But anyways, I'm digressing.

Will it be an economic disaster to Miami if Downtown becomes condos-only-stay-out-you-icky-clubs land? Not really. There's enough drug dealers, terrorists, lawyers, and real estate agents here to keep the economy going. But from a fun, party, and culture point of view it'll be a damn loss. The term "America's Ibiza" is sometimes kicked about in regards to our city. It'd be a shame to lose that kind of mystique.

Sure, I'm overly defensive, but I'm doing this out of concern for the scene overall...slippery slope or not, bad ideas like rolling back closing times are contagious. And yes, friends of mine work in Space, Nocturnal, Pawn Shop, Goldrush, and Twilo. I'd hate to see them take a hit.

Oh, and did I mention it's quite nice to see we're debating something of importance here? It's what makes our little community tick.

[V. Barbarino]

I read most of this crap and you people are not seeing the bigger issues here.

First off, a former club owner correctly pointed out that since the mid 90s on the beach they were trying to get earlier closing times, it never happened, so this may not happen either, more likely it won't, atleast for now, wait a few months after the PAC and condos open... Summer 07..

How does closing a club down at 5am, help with noise issues? So people only get annoyed at 5am or after, not 3:27am??? Also it would be a long drawn out legal battle to get this enacted.

If I had to bet, I'd say this won't ever happen, however that doesn't mean the city won't do all it can to shut them down. Space's patio is the 1st to go... LP can't win that fight and he knows it. If you put a glass roof on a pati, one would argue IT'S NOT A PATIO ANYMORE!

Also who is the real loser if this did happen??? The answer might surprise you... It's the Sobe clubs.. They will be flooded with the worst type of crowd and will create such havoc the city will certainly step in and kill it before it gets out of control. Downtown can not work with 5am closings.

For the guy who talked about Bricks patio issues with the cops and noise, Nocturnal use to get complaints from where the Miami Herald buidling is. Bass travels very far, and when it's cold out, it's even worse.

The noise laws are county laws, NOT CITY LAWS so anywhere in Dade county the law is applied!

[Guest dancefloored]

Oh, and I've seen fairly well-to-do people out past the sunrise. Downtown partying isn't for crackheads and poor people. If some of you want to think I'm a drug addict, that's fine by me.

no need to defend yourself from what you like to do. People think Im on some whacked drugs everytime I step on the dance floor primarily because of my energy and emotion but Ive been sober 2 years in Feb so who cares what people think. :-X My mind is so occupied in the bumpin house music that I just get out of my own way and let the music take me