24-hour club district may face closing time

[Guest coach]

1) Super wide beaches

2) Weather

3) Cruises

4) Shopping!!!

5) Celebrity Watching (the suggestion that celebs will leave if the clubs have to close at 5am is LOOOOOOOOOOL. what time does LA close?)

6) Smokin hot women

7) Latin culture

Boating

9) Fishing

10) Diving/Snorkeling (our proximity to the keys still gets us a big chunk of people on their way down there)

Wow... talk about missing the point. Go ahead, pick my points apart one by one. NO SHIT you can find better places for each point on a singular basis. But now try sticking to the point... name ONE FUCKING CITY that has them ALL.... AT THE SAME TIME. Don't bother... it's impossible.

Hmmm, good point. I'll look into that, but I would say that there probably are a few. Are we talking about tourists or residents? Does it have to be in the U. S.?

I think the big picture that you are missing is that nobody is saying that the *only* reason people come here is the nightlife, but it is one of the big deciding factors for a *lot* of people (not all). As has been pointed out, rolling back the closing hours could endanger that.

[Guest pod]

A lot of people in our demo come here for the nightlife, at least in part. I've never talked to anyone in the 21-40 group who is down here to sit on the beach and bake, or go shopping exclusively. The first question usually is "What is there to do tonight"?

[Guest endymion]

A lot of people in our demo come here for the nightlife, at least in part.

Okay somebody start a poll. How many people here are voters with 2-million-dollar condos?

[Guest coach]

A lot of people in our demo come here for the nightlife, at least in part.

Okay somebody start a poll. How many people here are voters with 2-million-dollar condos?

Missing the point, again!

[Guest pod]

Most people I know with $2 million dollar condos are ineligible to vote because their either non-citizens, felons, or not full time residents. Or just plain voter apathy. They've got a spa appointment on Election Day, and can't be bothered.

[Guest sobe2004]

A lot of people in our demo come here for the nightlife, at least in part. I've never talked to anyone in the 21-40 group who is down here to sit on the beach and bake, or go shopping exclusively. The first question usually is "What is there to do tonight"?

For the most part, other than WMC, very few people fly into Miami just to go to Space. I would say there crowd is 95% locals.

People down here on vacation go to Mansion, Prive and Snatch/Suite as well as the Delano, Shore Club and the Satei.

You might get a small number after the 5am closing but for the most part these peeps are either to messed up or are trying to get laid.

[Guest pod]

I said clubs in general, son.

This isn't about Space exclusively to me. I've said till I'm blue in the face in this thread that it concerns us all who enjoy and work in clubland. You know how the government is, give them an inch, they take a mile.

If the government can take down Space, it'll be a walk in the park for them to go after others, perhaps even the venues you enjoy.

Your attitude represents the biggest problem in clubland these days, something we're all (even myself) guilty of, and that's "Not my problem" syndrome. You don't go downtown since you're afraid your Bentley will get scratched, or you'll dirty up your Hugo Boss slacks, sure, I can accept that, but in the end, this is a threat to clubland as a whole.

I'm an extremist when it comes to personal liberties, but in this day and age you have to be. Freedom taken away is a bitch to regain.

Bad ideas are even more virulent than good ones. Dermer might get it in his fat head to start fucking with the Beach clubs again.

[Guest sobe2004]

I said clubs in general, son.

This isn't about Space exclusively to me. I've said till I'm blue in the face in this thread that it concerns us all who enjoy and work in clubland. You know how the government is, give them an inch, they take a mile.

If the government can take down Space, it'll be a walk in the park for them to go after others, perhaps even the venues you enjoy.

Your attitude represents the biggest problem in clubland these days, something we're all (even myself) guilty of, and that's "Not my problem" syndrome. You don't go downtown since you're afraid your Bentley will get scratched, or you'll dirty up your Hugo Boss slacks, sure, I can accept that, but in the end, this is a threat to clubland as a whole.

I'm an extremist when it comes to personal liberties, but in this day and age you have to be. Freedom taken away is a bitch to regain.

Bad ideas are even more virulent than good ones. Dermer might get it in his fat head to start fucking with the Beach clubs again.

I understand that you are speaking about all the clubs downtown . . . but the fact remains that the popularity of these clubs and primarily Space is not what it was two years ago . . .

That is why I believe that a closing time will be imposed sometime in the future . . . only time will tell . . .

[Guest coach]

He is not talking about all the clubs downtown. He is talking about all the clubs in Dade county.

[Guest pod]

Saleen Barbarino pointed out that noise ordinances and such are county-level laws. The main thing that the condos will use vs. the Downtown clubs is county noise laws, as they are quantifiable. The whole "element" argument that that councilwoman made, was spurious at best, as there's really no police records to back it up. How does she know *for sure* that they are *stoned*? So in the end, it comes down to noise violations. It's how they got Opium. Miami-Dade County noise ordinances.

This is fun, real clubland debate.

[Guest sobe2004]

Saleen Barbarino pointed out that noise ordinances and such are county-level laws. The main thing that the condos will use vs. the Downtown clubs is county noise laws, as they are quantifiable. The whole "element" argument that that councilwoman made, was spurious at best, as there's really no police records to back it up. How does she know *for sure* that they are *stoned*? So in the end, it comes down to noise violations. It's how they got Opium. Miami-Dade County noise ordinances.

This is fun, real clubland debate.

I am not so sure that the county makes the rules for noise . . . I think that each city commission enacts rules when it comes to noise ordinances . . .

[Guest pod]

It's a county level thing. Ask the Opium gang. The locals enforce it, but it is a Miami-Dade County ordinance. Kind of like when a local cop pulls you over, but it is a Miami-Dade County ticket. Most code-enforcement stuff is county level down here.

[Guest sobe2004]

It's a county level thing. Ask the Opium gang. The locals enforce it, but it is a Miami-Dade County ordinance. Kind of like when a local cop pulls you over, but it is a Miami-Dade County ticket. Most code-enforcement stuff is county level down here.

Still not sure . . . It seems that Miami Beach has its own ordinance . . .

Taken from:

http://bestof.miaminewtimes.com/bestof/award.php?oid=oid:120509&section=oid:13676&year=2006

Best New Law

Noise Ordinance, Miami Beach

It's not perfect, but it turns down the volume without squelching the vital tourist machine. Here's how it works: Once a code officer confirms a noise complaint, the culprit receives a written warning -- and has fifteen minutes to turn down the sound. Businesses receive three written warnings per year. (Vociferous voters got that knocked down from six at a contentious March meeting.) After that, fines ramp up. They begin paltry -- $250 for the first violation, and businesses can receive only one per day as long as they quiet down after a warning. But the new ordinance, approved March 11, takes away exceptions for special events -- like holiday weekends or Art Basel. So on the whole, the Beach should be a bit quieter for those who choose to live near the craziness.

[Guest sobe2004]

Found this in the City of Miami Municipal Code:

Sec. 36-4. Operation of radios, phonographs or other sound-making devices; bands, orchestras and musicians--Generally; exemption.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person owning, occupying or having charge of any building or premises or any part thereof, in the city, at any time to cause or suffer or allow any loud, unnecessary, excessive or unusual noises in the operation of any radio, phonograph or other mechanical sound-making device or instrument, or reproducing device or instrument, or in the playing of any band, orchestra, musician or group of musicians, or in the use of any device to amplify the music of any band, orchestra, musician or group of musicians, where the noise or music is plainly audible at a distance of 100 feet from the building, structure, vehicle or premises in which or from which it is produced. The fact that the noise or music is plainly audible at a distance of 100 feet from the vehicle or premises from which it originates constitutes prima facie evidence of a violation of this chapter.

( The city commission may declare an exemption from the prohibitions contained in paragraph (a) above and declare them inapplicable on special occasions by resolution.

(Code 1967, § 36-4; Ord. No. 10797, § 1, 10-18-90; Code 1980, § 36-4)

Note that this is a City Code . . . not County . . .

[Guest pod]

I've always been told it was a county-level thing. I think the cities are free to set the enforcment fines and levels though...i.e. the County probably says "at 100 feet, the noise cannot be more than 80 dBA" and then lets the cities figure out how much to fine.

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

good, we need to break that shit up anyway. 1 block. 7 clubs. most all playing the same style of music. lets spread out put some hot clubs on another block. it will confuse the crackheads where to go to bother us party people.

[Guest pod]

Gee, and you wonder why we have problems. An attitude like that is gonna get you nowhere. Stash your music elitism on the shelf and look at the bigger picture. That's the problem with the trainspotting community, they can't see past their own ass. If more than 50 people show, it sucks.

And FYI, they're not all playing the same music. There's 3 dance-oriented clubs and 2 hip-hop clubs.

[Guest coach]

You're both right. The basic noise laws are county. But each city can enact stricter laws if they so desire.

[Guest swank]

It's a county level thing. Ask the Opium gang. The locals enforce it, but it is a Miami-Dade County ordinance. Kind of like when a local cop pulls you over, but it is a Miami-Dade County ticket. Most code-enforcement stuff is county level down here.

Still not sure . . . It seems that Miami Beach has its own ordinance . . .

Taken from:

http://bestof.miaminewtimes.com/bestof/award.php?oid=oid:120509&section=oid:13676&year=2006

Best New Law

Noise Ordinance, Miami Beach

It's not perfect, but it turns down the volume without squelching the vital tourist machine. Here's how it works: Once a code officer confirms a noise complaint, the culprit receives a written warning -- and has fifteen minutes to turn down the sound. Businesses receive three written warnings per year. (Vociferous voters got that knocked down from six at a contentious March meeting.) After that, fines ramp up. They begin paltry -- $250 for the first violation, and businesses can receive only one per day as long as they quiet down after a warning. But the new ordinance, approved March 11, takes away exceptions for special events -- like holiday weekends or Art Basel. So on the whole, the Beach should be a bit quieter for those who choose to live near the craziness.

tsk..tsk..no mention of conference?

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

umm, i know your not talking to me pod. first of all my reply had nothing to do with elitism. and why would you think i want less people? "more than 50 is sucks" ? wtf i said nothing like that...sorry im from new york. i miss the adventure of traveling across the city to go club hopping. not to be spoon fed "these are the best clubs in miami on this block..dont go off the block"

[Guest pod]

I was talking to you. You should show a little more tolerance, all things considered. Just because these clubs don't jive with your vision of clubland, doesn't mean they need to be shut down.

Having 7 clubs on 1 block is a wonderful, and safe thing. South Beach is the same way, every club is walkable from each other, or a max $5 cab ride. "Club-hopping" becomes possible, convenient, and desired. I've hit as many as seven venues in an evening once, without spending shit on transport.

If you're a drinker, it is preferable for club-hopping. Don't like Club X? Club Y is right next door and you can check that out. Bored with Y? Z is right there, and you don't have to risk a DUI or pay a $30 cab fare to get to it. DUI's aren't fun, by the way.

Wanna see some T & A? There's the strip club right there too. I'd rather be 5 minutes from everything than an hour. It's where New York has fucked up. You've gotta either stay put, or haul ass across the city if you're bored. There's no unified "club district" like we've got down here. Districting things makes the legal situation and the urban planning situation so much easier.

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

yeah DUI's suck :-[

I never siad i wanted all thoes clubs to close. Im just trying to find some good in with the bad. I love nocturnal i dont want that place to shut down. and im yet to check out the new twilo. downtown miami aint that big. and we dont need to spread that stuff out too far where its not walkable. like i/o and pawn shop. they are perfectly distanced. anyway i have a poker game to attend so lets squash this internet drama.

*buys pod a drink*

peace

[Guest pod]

OK you're up my alley now. ;D

I was just saying that suggesting stuff like that is detrimental at the moment. Let's keep the city off of clubland's back, then tackle the problems of distance and DJs and so forth. If we don't have the clubs, the other problems become irrelevant.

It's too bad the city picked now to strike, because like it or not, clubland is divided. I forget where, but some blogger wrote about how he doesn't see much integration in crowds. VIP people hang with VIP people, music people with music, and sadly, even along racial lines.

[Guest Major]

OK you're up my alley now. ;D

Pod, u sound like Bush. "You're either with us or against us" ;D

[Guest sobe2004]

I was talking to you. You should show a little more tolerance, all things considered. Just because these clubs don't jive with your vision of clubland, doesn't mean they need to be shut down.

Having 7 clubs on 1 block is a wonderful, and safe thing. South Beach is the same way, every club is walkable from each other, or a max $5 cab ride. "Club-hopping" becomes possible, convenient, and desired. I've hit as many as seven venues in an evening once, without spending shit on transport.

If you're a drinker, it is preferable for club-hopping. Don't like Club X? Club Y is right next door and you can check that out. Bored with Y? Z is right there, and you don't have to risk a DUI or pay a $30 cab fare to get to it. DUI's aren't fun, by the way.

Wanna see some T & A? There's the strip club right there too. I'd rather be 5 minutes from everything than an hour. It's where New York has fucked up. You've gotta either stay put, or haul ass across the city if you're bored. There's no unified "club district" like we've got down here. Districting things makes the legal situation and the urban planning situation so much easier.

The problem with your theory though is that the average patron does not hit 3, 4 or 7 clubs like you . . . 7 clubs x $20 cover equals way to much $$$$ . . .

Gold Rush is disgusting . . . plain and simple . . .

NYC is the best city in the world . . . Miami is not even close . . .