24-hour club district may face closing time

[Guest Mattivi]

pod, cj's calming voice of reason, logic, objectivity, with a refreshing splash of sarcastic wit. ;D

[Guest james stratus]

Clubs will have to move to Hialeah and downtown and the beach will be dead in 5 years... Maybe.

I am starting to really hate this town and it's stupidity toward nightlife. SoBe would still be a shit hole without the nightlife, and downtown growth would be stagnant if Space hadn't opened up shop down there. What is especially annoying is that when the clubs are by poor black people the city doesn't care. But as soon as rich lighter complextion people move in they start to give a shit. All the stupid new high rise condos that no one but millionaires can afford should have impact windows anyway, so they can't here any outside noise to begin with. Does this mean they will close down the AAA because of all the noise and traffic after each game or event? And does that mean no more concerts at Bayside or Bicentenial Park?

Such dumbasses I say! >

[Guest RzO]

Clubs will have to move to Hialeah and downtown and the beach will be dead in 5 years... Maybe.

I am starting to really hate this town and it's stupidity toward nightlife. SoBe would still be a shit hole without the nightlife, and downtown growth would be stagnant if Space hadn't opened up shop down there. What is especially annoying is that when the clubs are by poor black people the city doesn't care. But as soon as rich lighter complextion people move in they start to give a shit. All the stupid new high rise condos that no one but millionaires can afford should have impact windows anyway, so they can't here any outside noise to begin with. Does this mean they will close down the AAA because of all the noise and traffic after each game or event? And does that mean no more concerts at Bayside or Bicentenial Park?

Such dumbasses I say! >

indeed

[all4tribal1414779019]

I was talking to you. You should show a little more tolerance, all things considered. Just because these clubs don't jive with your vision of clubland, doesn't mean they need to be shut down.

Having 7 clubs on 1 block is a wonderful, and safe thing. South Beach is the same way, every club is walkable from each other, or a max $5 cab ride. "Club-hopping" becomes possible, convenient, and desired. I've hit as many as seven venues in an evening once, without spending shit on transport.

If you're a drinker, it is preferable for club-hopping. Don't like Club X? Club Y is right next door and you can check that out. Bored with Y? Z is right there, and you don't have to risk a DUI or pay a $30 cab fare to get to it. DUI's aren't fun, by the way.

Wanna see some T & A? There's the strip club right there too. I'd rather be 5 minutes from everything than an hour. It's where New York has fucked up. You've gotta either stay put, or haul ass across the city if you're bored. There's no unified "club district" like we've got down here. Districting things makes the legal situation and the urban planning situation so much easier.

NYC is the best city in the world . . . Miami is not even close . . .

lmao i was just waiting for someone to say this...

i wont get deep into it, but before u mention a city is the best city in the world, why not throw in some facts as to why "you" believe in that statement.

[all4tribal1414779019]

All the stupid new high rise condos that no one but millionaires can afford should have impact windows anyway, so they can't here any outside noise to begin with.

Such dumbasses I say! >

alot of these so called "luxury" condominiums aren't really all that luxury meaning you're really not getting what you pay for, for instance I have clients that own half mil to 5 mil dollar homes and after inspecting their home you can really tell how these builders/developers are making their $...what they do is find the cheapest method of building/construction just to pass inspections...if a homeowner wants certain items such what you mentioned above than they would have to pay extra to have it installed during the construction...alot of times thats never done or the homeowner is buying the home/condo from a previous landlord.

[Guest pod]

Gold Rush is disgusting . . . plain and simple . . .

NYC is the best city in the world . . . Miami is not even close . . .

I never said it was clean. See my sig?

NYC isn't as cool as you think, and Miami's cooler than you think.

You think Miami's nightlife government is hostile, wait till you deal with Bloomberg and his Gestapo.

Sobe, you're a nice guy and all, but you've gotta step outside of yourself in instances like this.

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

uck i so dont wanna get wrapped up in this BUT. nyc is like 5 times bigger and better than miami. first of all downtown miami is a ghosttown at night eXcept that 1 block of clubs. 2nd the people in NY are way more real. alot of people down here is sooo..stuck up? "i know this person im on the guestlist im so cool" why do you think the most popular nightlife forum is "COOLjunkie" you people want to be so cool. just fuckin have a beer and enjoy your self who give a fuck what other people think. now dont start flaming me just yet. Iv been around and miami i would have to say is my 2nd fav city so far. BUT...its not ny :X

[Guest pod]

That's what makes Miami Miami. Not gonna change. Down here it is who ya know. Up there it is more egalitarian, sure, but there's no "system" that can be worked for more efficient clubgoing.

We could be here all night debating Miami vs New York, but all's we'd get out of it is rehashes of fights from previous threads. Neither city in my mind, has a clear cut advantage in nightclubs. And that's why they invented travel. ;D

[Guest Marina22]

I apologize for my scattered thoughts but this thread took it out of me. Not bad as far as topic, which I find it interesting, hence I read it. However, the same thing is said over and over or we have some dumb bs inbetween. If Barbarino is right and they were already trying to do this in the 90s but never materialized then it might be nothing. If we can do anything about it not happening, just in case, then what can we the peeps really do? I would like to know so I can do something but that sounds idealistic and hippie.

I thought that the whole downtown revamp had the clubs already included along with the condos and the rest as part of an entertainment destination. What about those high impact windows James mentioned are they in place in all condos, Diogo? Also a valid point, the 5am closing time would not do anything for the noise since people are sleeping at that time and before. So the closing time would be much earlier like 2am or leave it the way it is... As far as tourism goes, I hadn't heard the term "The American Ibiza" (even though Ramon would disagree) but I like it cause damn it, we're freakin' lucky. Miami, has many great qualities but the nightlife is the icing on the cake and once you take some out it won't be the same all over.

Let's talk action or just enjoy what we have now and prepare for the worst :-\ By the way, we have much better diving visibility here on the East coast of Florida than on the murky West coast.

[Guest miamilawdj04]

well i had typed a long message, but screw it...it got erased.

To the point: I live in the downtown "district" area. It's only a reality that this area is changing, and nightclubs/terraces open until 1:00 p.m., like it or not, will NOT play a part in that. It's just too damn loud. I agree, the new buildings DO have soundproofing and what not that my building (right there as well) does not. I go to bed sometimes hearing BOOM BOOM BOOM.....wake up....and i hear....BOOM BOOM BOOM. i just smile, because many weekends i would be over there myself. That is one of the things i love about this city---the clubs/diverse nightlife experiences. BUT, most people...who really do NOT like clubs like that, would be outraged and pressuring every person who'd give them an ear...to close the places. The sorry reality is, is that a few incidents just make it that much easier for them to do it. Commissioners, etc... just have to point to the shootings, numerous drug overdoses, car accidents, fights, etc.., that tend to happen. The acts of a few always ruin things for the masses. Now i know an expanded "entertainment zone" with restaurants, etc...is a good idea.....but i don't think 1:00 p.m. closing times will fit into that any longer. Say it ain't so, but i am afraid it may be.

As far as Bicentennial Park.....say goodbye. That place has already been planned...and development will start within 1 year or so, for the 180 million dollar MUSEUM PARK! No more concerts/WMC there. GoODBYE! So, all this gentrification and "improvement"---will look to be the downfall for clubland, etc.... let's hope something can be worked out. But money talks man....and us locals now (the clubgoing folk) look to be on the short end of it. hopefully it won't be THAT bad though.

[Guest Marina22]

A museum park, yuck! They should do that on Bayside instead or anywhere else for that matter but you say it's done already?! > Regardless, I was thinking of eventually moving from South Florida but I guess it's a definite now... Viva Espana

[Guest pod]

One thing I do see going away is outdoor party areas downtown. I see clubs either being required to be all indoors, or install (at great cost) sound abatement measures to comply with regulations, i.e. only the top players could afford to do so. Small venues will have to be indoors exclusively.

I do think they can keep the 24-hour zone alive and well, as long as there's an agreement on both sides of the fence. The city needs to agree to honor it's previous commitments to the area, and conversely, the clubs need to agree to take steps to keep the area in some modicum of decency. In general the crowds are good, you're right it is the actions of the few that screw it up for the many. Unfortunately, you can't point out these few without sounding like a racist, so I won't. The problems didn't start until this year when certain clubs invited a certain element downtown. Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, the city should operate on a venue-by-venue basis in enforcement. Don't penalize Space, Nocturnal, Twilo, and Pawn Shop because certain other venues decide to convert into a gun range with human targets.

It's too late now, but building permits should not have been issued for the condos immediately east of the club zone. The City wanted an entertaiment district, the easiest way to kill it is to put residences nearby. I would have established a buffer zone of at least 1000 yards in any direction from the edges of the zone.

Proper planning when this stupid condo boom came about would have avoided all this, but all's the city took note of was greedy developers.

[Guest miamilawdj04]

unfortunately proper zoning and city planning, is something this city has NO IDEA how about. Development is run afoul, and people are always trying to play catch up because development has happened so fast. In the end, it will come back to haunt Miami. You're right about the commitments. These corrupt planners and commissioners will do what they feel like i belive....just hope everyone has some good attorneys on hand

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

i lvoe to travel

[Guest pod]

You might have a lot of business coming your way then, if you're into that sort of law. ;D

Piss poor urban planning defines this city, unfortunately. I love Miami but I'll be the first to admit the corruption in city government.

They just approved Cityplace, which is gonna be a giant mall where the old Boulevard Shops now stands across from the Herald. Of course they've taken no account of blocking the view of the ocean, much less the fact the transit and parking infrastructure are ill-equipped to handle something like this.

So you've got the Entertainment District, the PAC, and now Cityplace crammed into Downtown, plus the condos. It's gonna be a huge mess in ten years. Residential vs commercial vs entertainment vs government. Not residential with entertainment with commercial with government, unfortunately. Even an old city like New York, where urban planning is a rearguard action wasn't stupid enough to lump everything together at random like that. Oh wait, they are. There's condos going up near the Chelsea area where crobar and such are.

What is it with people and condos wanting to camp out near nightclubs and entertainment areas? Don't they realize it's gonna be noisy and rowdy? I'm pro-nightlife all the way, but I did the smart thing and I live near a bunch of art galleries. It's dead as a doornail here after 7.

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

the contractors are prolly thinkging "lets build condos near all the nightlife, everyone will want to live there cause its jsut walking distance from everything" and than they build it and all the people that live there are "yarr, this iss too close to the nightlife me mateys..yarr make thoes clubbers walk ye plank!"

[Guest pod]

That's the hook. The developers figure that they can sell the pretty aspect of "being near all the excitement", and then they guess that the residents will bitch and the clubs will shut down.

If every area is residential, what are we gonna do for fun? Sit on our asses and watch American Idol?

[Guest DiscJockeyJoey]

dont get me started on reality TV. >

[Guest james stratus]

Greenhouse style patios are in the future and only Space and Nocturnal (or whatever it will be called in the near future) will be the only venues zoned to have rooftop activity. If the outside area at Twilo is big enough for a system and a dance floor they should get on it to be let in on that. You still get the sun and the sky but also the benefit of air conditioning!

This will fix the problem of the music which is what is and will be the main problem. Any other noise will not matter as these people are living on Biscayne Blvd anyway.

Sure, Downtown needs to be livable if people are going to be living there. But it needs to be a residential and commercial community for the whole city, and not just a playground for rich people.

[V. Barbarino]

If anyone thinks a glass roof will keep the sound from annoying the neighbors, then I have some swamp land to sell you. I live by the train tracks and with my hurricane glass, it does absoutely nothing to stop the sound... This glass is so thick and tough you could hit it with a hammer and it won't break..

And finally a glass roof or "greenhouse" (which will cook the people dancing) is NOT A PATIO, IT'S AN ENCLOSED BUILDING!

LP will be forced to do one of two things

1. Slap a real roof on the patio.

2. Creat a quiet bar room up there with very very low muisc levels.. He might be able to creat a happy hour kind of bar up there since so many people will be living closer to space due to the condos.. Maybe a Raw bar, tropical themed cabanna type of joint.* (LP you owe me 15% of the profits if you use my idea, you've been stealing my shit for years.)

LP can't win this battle, the sound laws are so clear and easy, if you can hear it in your house, it's too loud!!!!

[Guest pod]

Stuff like this should be bought to the table. They can't go from 100-0 in one fell swoop.

[Guest james stratus]

If anyone thinks a glass roof will keep the sound from annoying the neighbors, then I have some swamp land to sell you. I live by the train tracks and with my hurricane glass, it does absoutely nothing to stop the sound... This glass is so thick and tough you could hit it with a hammer and it won't break..

And finally a glass roof or "greenhouse" (which will cook the people dancing) is NOT A PATIO, IT'S AN ENCLOSED BUILDING!

[Guest james stratus]

If anyone thinks a glass roof will keep the sound from annoying the neighbors, then I have some swamp land to sell you. I live by the train tracks and with my hurricane glass, it does absoutely nothing to stop the sound... This glass is so thick and tough you could hit it with a hammer and it won't break..

And finally a glass roof or "greenhouse" (which will cook the people dancing) is NOT A PATIO, IT'S AN ENCLOSED BUILDING!

You took that a little too literally. You wouldn't be creating a totally sound proof environment, just a barrier so that the sound doesn't carry beyond a half block radius like the sound in the main room already does. No one is going to living right across the street or directly behind Space or Noc on the exact same block. If you chose to live next to train tracks, then that is your problem.

And where are you pulling the science that says such an enclosure will act as an oven? Air conditioning! And, UV coating! There are plenty of structures around the world that are nothing but glass domes and you have never heard of a death by cooking in them.

[Guest]

I was talking to you. You should show a little more tolerance, all things considered. Just because these clubs don't jive with your vision of clubland, doesn't mean they need to be shut down.

Having 7 clubs on 1 block is a wonderful, and safe thing. South Beach is the same way, every club is walkable from each other, or a max $5 cab ride. "Club-hopping" becomes possible, convenient, and desired. I've hit as many as seven venues in an evening once, without spending shit on transport.

If you're a drinker, it is preferable for club-hopping. Don't like Club X? Club Y is right next door and you can check that out. Bored with Y? Z is right there, and you don't have to risk a DUI or pay a $30 cab fare to get to it. DUI's aren't fun, by the way.

Wanna see some T & A? There's the strip club right there too. I'd rather be 5 minutes from everything than an hour. It's where New York has fucked up. You've gotta either stay put, or haul ass across the city if you're bored. There's no unified "club district" like we've got down here. Districting things makes the legal situation and the urban planning situation so much easier.

The problem with your theory though is that the average patron does not hit 3, 4 or 7 clubs like you . . . 7 clubs x $20 cover equals way to much $$$$ . . .

Gold Rush is disgusting . . . plain and simple . . .

NYC is the best city in the world . . . Miami is not even close . . .

then go move there dude. if you hate miami so much.. move the fuck back to NYC. i live in downtown.. 5 blocks away from the clubs.. and i actually like whats happening down there. i also like the fact that i dont have to hurry to go out.. i can go out to dinner.. watch a football game.. hit a movie.. and still have plenty of time to come home.. get dressed up and go out.

you sound like a little bitch with your "Miami is hardly a great city" comment.. that's just nonsense. Fuck NY.. ill take warm weather, great nightlife, hot t+a, and beaches anyday over the cold up there.

[Guest pod]

It's why I moved where I live too. I live in the Design District, and I'm close enough to both the beach and Downtown not to plan too thoroughly an evening. I'm simply close enough that I can go out on a whim.