From Activist Raver to Tourist Raver AKA Why Talk Sh*t?

[Guest skywalker01]

or maybe it was the pills that were better.

[Guest pod]

Even if it was better, still, you can never go back. Barring advancements in quantum physics, time keeps on moving forward. Yeah, it's fun to crack open a beer and reminisce about the old times, lord knows I've told my nitrogen explosion story enough, but at the same time, you can't ever hope to revive the past in situations like this.

Face it, the people who were there have mostly moved on to other pursuits like families, businesses, and other such things which preclude "getting the old gang back together" for some parties. Maybe a reunion of sorts, but not a return to the way things were. Reactionary methods rarely work. You can take inspiration from the old, and then mix it with some new ideas for something that is well, new.

And if those people haven't left the scene, chances are they're hanging out or working in the nightclub scene as a profession. They went with things and progressed. A good example of this is happening tomorrow. Edgar and George used to play festivals in the area, and soon enough, both of them stepped up to much bigger and more enterprising things in the nightclubs.

Now, am I suggesting that people forget about the spirit which maybe got them into this little scene of ours in the first place? Not really. The ideals are admirable, yes, but I'll play devil's advocate here and really go out on a limb. Advocating those ideals also means tolerating those who maybe don't agree with them 100%. For example, me. I agree with the ideals, but I know the implementation of them thus far is seriously flawed, and due to human nature, it's not likely to happen. That's why my "ideal" is to go out, have fun, and not sweat the fact that maybe there's people out there who aren't living up to this mystical, probably drug-fueled ideal that was hammered out in some warehouse in New York all those years ago.

To quote a friend, 'there's a support group for this thing, it's called the bar'.

Belly on up, order a drink from one of the friendly bartenders, don't forget to tip, after all, she works really hard for her money, and just watch the activities unfold.

Face it, for the most part, we're all over 21 nowadays, the whole 'rave' ideal is a relic of the 20th, might as well just get on with things in the 21st, and do our best to have a good time. When you're having fun, half those ideals just come naturally anyways.

If I'm enjoying myself, I'm probably liable to be nice, if I know you.

The last thing anyone wants to hear is a preacher, whether he or she is swinging the Bible, the Watchtower, or a bag full of horse tranquilizer and 'ideals' ripped off from someone swinging a bag full of hallucinogens 40 years ago. If you need something from Merck to respect your fellow man, I feel sorry for you.

[Guest Buck White]

If you said the sh*t...stand behind it. If you didnt...then tell the person you didnt say it. Simple. How many times, in life, do you hear somebody singing some swan song about how they didnt say this and they didnt say that....and, "I can't believe she thinks I said that." Well, tell the goddamn person. We're 50 posts into this and I don't even know what happened. Some of these guys/gals are right....nightclubs and the folks that frequent them are notoriously disingenuous...and the weak will be preyed upon in one capacity or the other. And the douchebags will always outnumber the shiny happy people....in your local discotheque.

[Guest JustDade]

I don't think I know you so this isn't personal but......

What the hell are you talking about? Are you serious? Someone said something to someone else and now you're never clubbing in South Florida again? Let me give you some advice; when all this gets that important in your life it's not fun or a hobby....it's an obsession and you should seek help. When you refer to yourself as an "adult raver" it's time to grow up and see the club scene for what it is.....a distraction from real life. When you're spending that much time chasing DJs and club nights around the country.....it's time for a new obsession.

Actually Dade, you do know me (or at least of me) and I just PM'ed you to refresh your memory. There are some things I don't think appropriate to mention in this post even though it may be relevant.

And what you wrote feels a bit like a personal attack – maybe it’s because of everything else. I probably shouldn't feel the need to defend myself, but yet I will.

I am 32 years old. I have been on the board of directors of a non-profit animal rescue for over 10 years. I have owned my own business as a real estate appraiser for 7. Each year I donate as much additional time, goods, and/or money to other causes such as children’s holiday toy drives or environmental groups as possible. I definitely have a life outside of all of this, but I didn't think it relevant to discuss until now.

I did say that there were other mitigating factors, but that this was my "straw" - maybe you missed that. Even before this, I didn't go out to clubs that much compared to most on the boards, so I would barely call this an obsession. But I still like to go to music events and enjoy meeting new people who have passion for the music – from now on I am just going to do it in cities I love (and would consider moving to) since I really don't feel so great about Miami and what it has to offer anymore. I guess according to you that is unhealthy.

Dade, I really hope this doesn't become an adverse "back and forth" between us. I PM'ed you about what was one of the biggest hits to my outlook on the music scene (when something like that can happen to a pioneer). But with hesitation of repercussions, I feel I have to mention that you are one of the people that I have seen contribute negative things here on the board. I know exactly who you are and about your past and what you have contributed in the past, and it saddens me that you appear to be like this. You are actually one of the people that were at least a small factor in my decision since negativity often thrives here on the boards and appears to occasionally be fueled by you. If this offends you, please let me know and I will be happy to edit my post and remove whatever you like.

I hope that maybe this can open some lines of communication.

Is this the kind of attitude that eventually grows out of working in this industry for so long? Because it seems that quite a few are like this and I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg.

I'm not negative....I just like to be realistic about things. What I was trying to say to you was that you seem to be taking all of this a little too seriously. Clubs are supposed to be a release or distraction. They're supposed to be places where you can go and get drunk, dance, mingle with people and maybe get laid. You have managed to turn that into a life-altering community where everything means something cosmic. I'm sorry but if what some asshole, (me), says on a message board makes you depressed or upset then you really are taking all of this way too seriously. When you'll spend your vacation time and money chasing DJ gigs across the country, it seems obsessive.

[Guest lyrik]

Even if it was better, still, you can never go back. Barring advancements in quantum physics, time keeps on moving forward. Yeah, it's fun to crack open a beer and reminisce about the old times, lord knows I've told my nitrogen explosion story enough, but at the same time, you can't ever hope to revive the past in situations like this.

Face it, the people who were there have mostly moved on to other pursuits like families, businesses, and other such things which preclude "getting the old gang back together" for some parties. Maybe a reunion of sorts, but not a return to the way things were. Reactionary methods rarely work. You can take inspiration from the old, and then mix it with some new ideas for something that is well, new.

And if those people haven't left the scene, chances are they're hanging out or working in the nightclub scene as a profession. They went with things and progressed. A good example of this is happening tomorrow. Edgar and George used to play festivals in the area, and soon enough, both of them stepped up to much bigger and more enterprising things in the nightclubs.

Now, am I suggesting that people forget about the spirit which maybe got them into this little scene of ours in the first place? Not really. The ideals are admirable, yes, but I'll play devil's advocate here and really go out on a limb. Advocating those ideals also means tolerating those who maybe don't agree with them 100%. For example, me. I agree with the ideals, but I know the implementation of them thus far is seriously flawed, and due to human nature, it's not likely to happen. That's why my "ideal" is to go out, have fun, and not sweat the fact that maybe there's people out there who aren't living up to this mystical, probably drug-fueled ideal that was hammered out in some warehouse in New York all those years ago.

To quote a friend, 'there's a support group for this thing, it's called the bar'.

Belly on up, order a drink from one of the friendly bartenders, don't forget to tip, after all, she works really hard for her money, and just watch the activities unfold.

Face it, for the most part, we're all over 21 nowadays, the whole 'rave' ideal is a relic of the 20th, might as well just get on with things in the 21st, and do our best to have a good time. When you're having fun, half those ideals just come naturally anyways.

If I'm enjoying myself, I'm probably liable to be nice, if I know you.

The last thing anyone wants to hear is a preacher, whether he or she is swinging the Bible, the Watchtower, or a bag full of horse tranquilizer and 'ideals' ripped off from someone swinging a bag full of hallucinogens 40 years ago. If you need something from Merck to respect your fellow man, I feel sorry for you.

Cannot believe I agree with almost everything you have posted. I grew up in quite possibly the model and peak of the "rave" scene in Chicago in the early nineties. Though I wouldn't trade those times, experiences and memories for anything (well maybe lots of cash) I definitely DO NOT want to go back. PLUR is a superficial term that is exactly as you described it...when the drugs wore off nobody gave a shit about it or you unless you were the one with more drugs, cash, car and/or maybe a place to crash at. I watched this same ideology tear kids apart, leave them homeless, jobless and addicted. Sure there were a small few and still may be a small few that actually hold those ideals to heart but they are extremely few and far between. Sorry Coach this is not a relevant term now and certainly back then it was just a false mantra for us to feel that sameness in the scene just as tech said to know that we were apart of something unique and something that very few knew about. Back then it was sort of a secret society with map points and warehouses and phone lines and illegal venues. I can speak from a personal history of experience with it and the people that preached that PLUR. Was it better back then as compared to now? I don’t know...its different I know that, but I don’t know if it was better back then I just think its easy to say it because those times were for most our first experiences with the music, the drugs and scene so of course when you do anything for a first time the rush and experience is magnified and overtime you get use to things and things seem to not have the same affect. Today I couldn’t be happier I am where I want to be at in my life (aside from being laid up with a shitty back injury currently) things are great. I have a great job, home, wife and new family on the way.

Just like Dade is saying clubbing and the nightlife should be used as an outlet and release and unless you are working in the industry you shouldn’t take it too seriously and definitely don’t let the people and the scene itself consume you or affect your life too much in one way or another. Its just as I was pointing out in regards to the PLUR ideology…its all good and well when you’re partying up and hanging with people but don’t be too naïve to allow yourself to believe that anyone is actually that good of a friend if for the most part you only see and talk to them out and about at clubs and places of the sort. People talk shit always will most it just needs to be brushed off your shoulders unless it is personally damaging to your life.

[ryan2772]

fuck it! i quit too! i'm so jaded! you all are assholes!

;D

[Bling]

fuck it! i quit too! i'm so jaded! you all are assholes!

;D

;D

[Guest lyrik]

fuck it! i quit too! i'm so jaded! you all are assholes!

;D

;D

Sissys

Thats why I never went to rehab because rehab is for quitters and my daddy didn't raise no quitter.

[Guest pod]

Some stand up comedian compares it to the Deadheads who "gave up" when the drugs wore off.

The only counter to this I have is right here. We're probably the few left who needn't be drugged up to respect our fellow man, at least in clubland.

[Guest deprivation]

I like reading threads like this where people compare current to the good old days. Like some said have posted things change, people get older, and priorities change. A new generation comes along and they are having their magical experience now.

I was reading the new Rolling Stone regarding 1967 and the summer of love and recently watching a documentary about the '60s. The vibe, music and drugs was a huge cultural impact in America. Except when the hippies left San Francisco for the communes in the wilderness they didn't last so long. After awhile the community free love spirit turned negative, drugs wore off and people went home. My point is that things change and you need balance in your life. Too much of a good thing isn't so good.

[Guest pod]

It was just human nature taking over. We're just naturally competitive with each other, and trying to maintain that 'community spirit' when sober is very difficult to do.

[Guest NicoleC]

Wow....lots of responses. I haven't had time to give my full attention to reading everything, but I have skimmed most of the posts. I have also received quite a few texts, PM’s, e-mails, and phone calls full of concern and support and it warms my heart – so thank you. I promise to read through everything soon, but I am in the middle of some other pressing issues this weekend.

I want to state that I think some things I wrote were misinterpreted.

First of all, I am not looking for the "return of the rave". When I wrote about PLUR, I was attempting to comment on the fact that I wish people would implement the basics of PLUR when dealing with each other – both inside and outside of “the sceneâ€. I was brought up by someone (not a hippie, believe it or not) who believes essentially we are all loving creatures. Why should it be difficult for all of us to treat each other with peace, love, unity, and respect? Are we all so scarred and damaged by our pasts that this should be a foreign concept? Also I used the word "raver" liberally for lack of a better word at the time. I did not think for a moment that it would be taken so literally. I don't go out sporting my wide leg jeans, princess leia hair-do, spiked vinyl heart backpack full of blow-pops, while carrying around my tickle-me-elmo anymore.

Also, I truly and fully understand that the nightlife is supposed to be an escape. I think I even wrote that in my original posts. The reason why I (over time) made the decision to no longer participate here in South Florida is because almost every time I went out here I was encountering or observing things that I do not feel are healthy (both physically and mentally). I no longer enjoy the scene here, although I do love and admire some of the people that I have met in it. I am not letting anybody "win", so I don't feel a need to stand up for myself by being present in an environment that I do not wish to be a part of as it stands as of this day.

Lastly, I am not traveling simply to "rave". I love to travel. I also enjoy going to music events. Furthermore, I am considering relocating. Thankfully, I have the freedom to make my own work schedule, so I can plan my travel to locations I want to visit (and possibly live) to correspond with events/artists I want to see. For example, I have never attended DEMF even though many people I know swear that it is the zenith of all U.S. music events. However, I have never had the desire to experience Detroit as a city, so I have never attended. (I have been convinced to try to go next year, but I am considering it only because my friends really want me to be there with them.)

And my decision was not based solely on someone talking smack or even that fact that I was falsely accused of saying nasty things about others. I will state this one more time - that incident was my "straw that broke the camel's back". I can take a lot, and believe me, I have. But this just happened to be the most recent incident that made my decision clear. I don't need a piano to fall on my head to tell me I am walking down the wrong path.

Besides, my posts are long enough, so you are going to have to take me on my word rather then have me explain all of my reasoning here.

[ryan2772]

seriously, i really quit too. no joking this time. at all.

[Guest lyrik]

Wow....lots of responses. I haven't had time to give my full attention to reading everything, but I have skimmed most of the posts. I have also received quite a few texts, PM’s, e-mails, and phone calls full of concern and support and it warms my heart – so thank you. I promise to read through everything soon, but I am in the middle of some other pressing issues this weekend.

I want to state that I think some things I wrote were misinterpreted.

First of all, I am not looking for the "return of the rave". When I wrote about PLUR, I was attempting to comment on the fact that I wish people would implement the basics of PLUR when dealing with each other – both inside and outside of “the sceneâ€. I was brought up by someone (not a hippie, believe it or not) who believes essentially we are all loving creatures. Why should it be difficult for all of us to treat each other with peace, love, unity, and respect? Are we all so scarred and damaged by our pasts that this should be a foreign concept? Also I used the word "raver" liberally for lack of a better word at the time. I did not think for a moment that it would be taken so literally. I don't go out sporting my wide leg jeans, princess leia hair-do, spiked vinyl heart backpack full of blow-pops, while carrying around my tickle-me-elmo anymore.

Also, I truly and fully understand that the nightlife is supposed to be an escape. I think I even wrote that in my original posts. The reason why I (over time) made the decision to no longer participate here in South Florida is because almost every time I went out here I was encountering or observing things that I do not feel are healthy (both physically and mentally). I no longer enjoy the scene here, although I do love and admire some of the people that I have met in it. I am not letting anybody "win", so I don't feel a need to stand up for myself by being present in an environment that I do not wish to be a part of as it stands as of this day.

Lastly, I am not traveling simply to "rave". I love to travel. I also enjoy going to music events. Furthermore, I am considering relocating. Thankfully, I have the freedom to make my own work schedule, so I can plan my travel to locations I want to visit (and possibly live) to correspond with events/artists I want to see. For example, I have never attended DEMF even though many people I know swear that it is the zenith of all U.S. music events. However, I have never had the desire to experience Detroit as a city, so I have never attended. (I have been convinced to try to go next year, but I am considering it only because my friends really want me to be there with them.)

And my decision was not based solely on someone talking smack or even that fact that I was falsely accused of saying nasty things about others. I will state this one more time - that incident was my "straw that broke the camel's back". I can take a lot, and believe me, I have. But this just happened to be the most recent incident that made my decision clear. I don't need a piano to fall on my head to tell me I am walking down the wrong path.

Besides, my posts are long enough, so you are going to have to take me on my word rather then have me explain all of my reasoning here.

More power to you. My comment wasn't really aimed directly at your posts more so to some of the other comments and to piggy back pod's statements. I will say this though I have lived and moved about the country a lot. Chicago, Dallas, Houston and Miami and a lot of places in between and for the most part you are going to find the same types of things in every "scene" some places worse than others. Some times the grass is greener on the other side, but often times its just the same or worse. Its taking those chances to find that out that make you grow as a person so again good luck to you in your travels. I will say this though about the Miami scene just with any scene of course its going to have its downfalls but by far it has been the most mature and respectful and surprisingly educated scenes I have ever been a part of. I've been gone almost a year and to be completely honest I think my wife and I will find ourselves back in Florida in the not too distant future.

[Guest jkfunkee]

well, u will be happy to know that the RAVE is still alive in the D, sounds like the midwest is perfect 4u.

late,

j.

[Guest pod]

Ravers with guns, that'll work. Assuming they know how to disengage the safety and know not to bring them into Windsor.

[V. Barbarino]

This lady is a nut job. Who at 32 years old travels the US to go to raves or clubs???

Lady wake up, you are wrapped too tight.

[Guest swank]

well...I tried to stay out of this one too but couldn't help myself.

The "good ol days" were just that because for the most part we had less responsibility and were more accepting of different things.

As we get older we begin to accept that the world is a difficult place and it's each one for themselves.

The club business sucks...people owe me a TON of money from this business and for the most part are shady characters with no name or word to stand behind. How could you have a word if you don't know if your business will be open next month. A few bad weekends could set you back for a year...

POD has mentioned that of all the people he has met...he can count on one hand the ones he calls true friends. I can prolly count on both hands those people whom I trust in this biz and who trust me.

Nicole...whatever works for you is what you need to do...

[Guest pod]

Exactly.

I'm in this business simply because I don't have the temperament for a traditional sit-down office job of sorts. I said in another thread, if I went 'the course' that people wanted me to go, I'd be a senior developer at Apple or MS by now. But, I'm not geared for that.

Like Swank said, there's a lot of shady people in this biz, whether you're running a club, an event, or trying to do something along the lines of the r-word. But there's a few good eggs out there.

At the end of the day though, like I've been saying, you're not going to forment a social or political revolution on the dancefloor. Just go out and have fun. Save the revolutionary fervor for when it's time to pick up a gun and set things right.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

When you'll spend your vacation time and money chasing DJ gigs across the country, it seems obsessive.

I agree with everything else you said except this. Absolutely nothing wrong with using all your travel time/budget seeking experiences you can't have at home.

[Guest pod]

But is it really an 'experience'?

I mean think about it. Now, I'm not musically educated enough to appreciate it, but maybe that's why I don't see it, but I don't see the real point traveling just for a DJ. Some guy playing records and CDs. That's just me though.

Now, if it's part of an overall travel experience, then go with it. I'll fly somewhere to see the place, not the clubs and DJs, but I won't bar myself from going out if the host city encourages it.

[Guest coach]

fuck it! i quit too! i'm so jaded! you all are assholes!

;D

;D

Sissys

Thats why I never went to rehab because rehab is for quitters and my daddy didn't raise no quitter.

I said no, no, no.

[Guest deprivation]

Exactly.

I'm in this business simply because I don't have the temperament for a traditional sit-down office job of sorts. I said in another thread, if I went 'the course' that people wanted me to go, I'd be a senior developer at Apple or MS by now. But, I'm not geared for that.

Like Swank said, there's a lot of shady people in this biz, whether you're running a club, an event, or trying to do something along the lines of the r-word. But there's a few good eggs out there.

At the end of the day though, like I've been saying, you're not going to forment a social or political revolution on the dancefloor. Just go out and have fun. Save the revolutionary fervor for when it's time to pick up a gun and set things right.

Don't think the office setting would be that much better. I've worked in offices for ten years now and everyday its constant drama, backstabbing, constant shit talking and power positioning. And I have to see these people more than everyday & act professional. I can only count on one hand the number of friends met through work after all those years. The grass isn't always greener.

[Guest stryke303]

I have known and been friends with Nicole for the better part of more than a decade now and this entire thing seems to be blown a bit out of proportion. I think this represents the failure of this type of medium to fully capture and convey someone's true intent and emotion utilizing the written word. Nicole is someone whom I consider extremely genuine, sincere, passionate, and very intelligent. She's not some candy raver with a blowup sticking out of her mouth (not that there's anything wrong with that, to each his own, yes?). I have seen far worse travesties and things said on this board than what she's trying to express. This is a forum where she felt as if she could exercise her 1st amendment right. If you take the time to really read what she's saying, it's not that difficult to see what she's trying to get across. We don't have to agree, but we don't have to bash what she's putting on the table either. That said, I hope everyone is having a smashing weekend.

Best,

Stryke

[Guest musicalmissionary]

But is it really an 'experience'?

I mean think about it. Now, I'm not musically educated enough to appreciate it, but maybe that's why I don't see it, but I don't see the real point traveling just for a DJ. Some guy playing records and CDs. That's just me though.

Now, if it's part of an overall travel experience, then go with it. I'll fly somewhere to see the place, not the clubs and DJs, but I won't bar myself from going out if the host city encourages it.

Yes it definitely IS an experience. Going to a different city and hearing your favorite kind of music played on a proper sound system and being surrounded by people who are appreciating that music the way you do is definitely an experience worth traveling for .