Clubs that will still be around in 3 years

[Guest Mattivi]

Bad service is not something that is unique to just Miami, it permeates every city in the US. miami just has a larger club base so maybe its more prevalent. personally most clubs have their ups and downs, and i used to think space, up until recently, used to have a real high level of service from the door to the bar to the security, i mean real high. and for a club that has as much volume a nite for that place it was pretty impressive. the last few times ive gone, ive witnessed the the door antics first hand, so hopefully LP is aware of the situation and is rectifying it.

but back to the point, i dont think you can expect miracles from these clubs, they deal with alot of unsavory and obnoxious people nite in and nite out, so its not all daiseys and dandilions. and being that ive clubbed nationwide, miami isnt as bad as lot of cites ive been to. people for christ sakes its the niteclub industry its not a county club or nordstrom.

[Guest Mattivi]

My question is, is the service really that horrid if thousands of people still go out every weekend, year after year?

The service might be horrid to you, because maybe you're used to being walked in the back door, getting a blowjob from the cocktail waitresses, and the owner giving you an open bar tab for the evening.

But, again, if the service is horrid, why do people still go out by the thousands ever week?

I've never Recieved that kind of treatment POD, my horrid experiences with service are UNWARRANTED ATTITUDE at the bar and at The DOOR.....I'm goin to a party and the first thing that I have to do is confront the door guy...?

who the f*ck is he ?

he's the guy who decides to let you in :

[Guest DJ Nova]

My question is, is the service really that horrid if thousands of people still go out every weekend, year after year?

The service might be horrid to you, because maybe you're used to being walked in the back door, getting a blowjob from the cocktail waitresses, and the owner giving you an open bar tab for the evening.

But, again, if the service is horrid, why do people still go out by the thousands ever week?

I've never Recieved that kind of treatment POD, my horrid experiences with service are UNWARRANTED ATTITUDE at the bar and at The DOOR.....I'm goin to a party and the first thing that I have to do is confront the door guy...?

who the f*ck is he ?

he's the guy who decides to let you in :

it's just silly to think people like encountering this when you go to a party, it's fine if you have someone that's polite and

checkin I.D.s, guestlist etc....but The attitude of exclusivity and

is just BAD business....yeah these places make money, but they could be MAKING much more !!! So in actuality they are LOSING money...

[Guest Hardline]

Open Q:

If you are a Dj, what is the point of playing at a place where music doesnt matter??

[Guest pod]

yeah these places make money, but they could be MAKING much more !!! So in actuality they are LOSING money...

The powers-that-be around here have been at it a lot longer than you. I think if they thought they could make more money by operating your way, they'd do it.

[Guest coach]

Music is still art. If you didn't have passion, you wouldn't have art, and you wouldn't have music.

Pod, you may be trying to give these folks a lesson in reality and economics, but what you are saying is irrelevant. Not only to them, but to life, in general.

In all of history, artists have always ignored economic reality. They do their thing and either the sheeplike masses catch up or they don't. If they do, you become Picasso. If they don't, you become John Smith.

Either way, pandering to the herd mentality is not the way of artists. Nor is it a good thing. A lot of artists have to fail for the few to win out and push society forward. You may think that nightclubs are a business, and they are, but they are built on art (music). Even if you are just going out to have a good time, the music is part of that.

Art/music has always advanced and changed. You can't stop that. Smart business people look ahead to catch the next big thing. Ex-business people are the ones who try to hang onto the past. (NO, I am not saying that either LP or TOG are doing that, just making a general point).

Your arguments are just like the folks who told Picasso his art had no economic merit. Who knows who the next Picasso is? Sure, they are missing the economic point, but that's not because they are inexperienced or clueless. It's because they don't give a fuck. Sure, they may lose assloads of money, but whatsittoya?

You wanna be the old codger who sits on his ass and says, "You can't do that 'cause we ain't never done it that way," or you want to be the guy who actually gives some useful advice?

[Guest wasted24_7]

My question is, is the service really that horrid if thousands of people still go out every weekend, year after year?

The service might be horrid to you, because maybe you're used to being walked in the back door, getting a blowjob from the cocktail waitresses, and the owner giving you an open bar tab for the evening.

But, again, if the service is horrid, why do people still go out by the thousands ever week?

Doesnt everyone ;D

[Guest pod]

People in the biz are always on the lookout for the next big thing. Unfortunately, a lot of these artists who could be the next big thing, are shooting themselves in the foot by not playing nice with the money men. I don't care how innovative you are, or how 'cool' whatever you're doing is, but the moneymen will pass you over if you're a disagreeable sort, and find someone else that knows how to play ball. And that person might not be as "innovative" as the person who is the disagreeable sort.

In this day and age in clubland, no one wants to deal with the headache of coddling and catering to a primadonna. Again, the economic realities take over, since the logic is that, well, the venue is in demand, and if the DJ or artist isn't willing to be civil, there's fifty other hungry guys outside the door who would be more than happy to take to the decks.

[Guest JustDade]

Here's the deal....

Most venues are a reflection of their owners. Another way to put it is that I open a club and make it the way I would want a club to be as a customer.

Let's take Nova's problem with not being able to wear sneakers. I feel that people should dress up a little bit when they're heading out for a Saturday night. When I go out I usually put on a better pair of jeans, a nice shirt and proper shoes. I am perfectly comfortable dancing in that outfit. I want to go to a place where others are dressed similar.....and the girls are looking like they made an effort. When I look around a nice club and see a bunch of guys with baggy, sloppy jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers, I don't like the way it looks for a Saturday night out. So....why would I want that in my club? There are places where that is the normal dress but you want every place to conform to you.

The door guy.......same story. His job is to make the crowd inside conform to the owner's vision, not yours. Don't like it? Too bad....go elsewhere.

What you're saying is that you want to make no investment.....have no responsibility but you want to dictate the musical style, dress code, door policy, drink prices ect and have all clubs the same.

[djoscarg]

You know what Nelson...you guys should just stop beating around the bush, and say what it is you really want to say...

Give us the masterplan....the TRUTH

You oviously have made a clear judgement that the DJs currently playing at local clubs are beneath you and your superior form of dance music...I say you tell us WHY you are more qualified than them..oh wait...I mean US....YOU are going to teach us right? YOU are going to revolutionize Miami nightlife, where we have failed..

I agree with you whole-heartedly when you say Miami has a LONG way to go....as far as achieving a diverse EDM scene....but man, shitting on the guys that are fighting your fight is just dumb and ultimately only SELF-SERVING...

less than ten years ago.....trance was king here.....so I hit the road...FOR YEARS....thats just the way it was....what should I do??? sit here moping around because noone wanted to hear house music? Bad mouth George Acosta, Edgar V, David Padilla (and whoever else was playing Trance) at the more popular clubs? absolutely not! I respected them as fellow artists..was happy for their success and had and maintain friendships with all of them (regardless of genre)

All that being said...I disagree with the opinion that people in this town will not, or can not get into new sounds and new music...Miami actually has a long lineage of great dance music...we've just been SPOILED ROTTEN for the last few years and now were moving into a new era (opportunity!!)....I also agree that the clubs have oversaturated and tried to milk the "Superstar DJ" trend to the BONE! and we have payed the price as a scene...but most importantly its the DJs...If the DJs succumb to being safe...especially when the going is good...it only sets us back.. (us meaning people that have dedicated most of their lives to building a decent music scene in this town) We as DJs in this town need to take some responsibility and give people their moneys worth....do your fucking research and find some fresh GOOD music that will move your audience..without pounding them over the head with the same safe tracks...but also without LOOSING your audience..

I have zero interest in VIPs and dress codes...I think their pretty dumb quite frankly...and many times undermine the whole concept of the music I love...but I also realize that certain people prefer a certain type of service/enviroment...and that is there right...especially since theyre spending theyre hard earned cash on it..

I think you "minimal, tech" dudes should get off your high horse and realize a few things:

for starters...youre just part of a trend yourselves...Most DJs (who are KNOWN for Mimimal) are RUNNING away from that term at this point...any categorization or labeling of music is just a marketing ploy anyway...and to feel an alleigeance to just ONE of these terms, labels, brands is very limiting...especially as a DJ...

The people you diss on here indirectly...are probably the ONLY people that can and WILL help u guys out (I mean the working DJs you feel are inadequate)...and are among the ONLY ones who believe in what you are trying to do...and the music you love..

There is a community of DJs/ artists in this town...that although is small..and very diverse in styles...is very present....and I for one talk to many of these guys on a regular basis..exchange music....support eachothers gigs etc....You seem to have that as well...but for some reason, have decided to set yourselves apart...and somehow place yourselves on some type of superior platform....where you throw around words like "underground" "real music" "mega-clubs" "monopoly" but yet...what youre bitching about...is that you arent getting YOUR music into the mega-clubs...bottom line is: if you make or play music...you want an audience...and we are all trying to get our sound out there...because we believe in it..but it isnt cool, in my opinion, to hate on the guys that are doing their thing when its their turn...HOUSE was a bad word around here not too long ago...give it some time kids! and dont take yourselves out of the game, before its even begun..

The music ELITISTS Don't let other DJs' play with Him/Her......so WHO is/are the music ELITISTS in MIAMI ? .....at MANY of the "Minimal - Techno - Tech House" parties....you are seeing ALL kinds of DJS playing.....

YET the SAME DJS PLAY AT SPACE, GRYPHON, MANSION, OPIUM, ETC WEEK IN WEEK OUT........SO WHO ARE THE REAL ELITISTS THAT DON'T WORK WITH ANYONE ???

RARELY DO YOU SEE ANY OF THE "TECH" djs playing at the those BIG venues, but You are seeing and hearing of the djs..at the thos big VENUES "starting" to play MINIMAL tracks.......? ?? WHO ARE THE ELITISTS ? Aren't people who are "Elitists", think that they're SO cool, and DON'T WORK with ANYONE accept theyr'e small circle of friends ?

So this argument that MIAMI minimal and tech djs, and music lovers are elitists couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.......

There are defenitely ELITISTS in Miami....but you're lookin in the wrong place. Our parties AREN'T EXCLUSIVE like these MEGA clubs that won't even LET ME IN !!! SO who is cool and who is NOT ?

Last Time I checked being cool was .......BEING COOL.....not HARRASSING people because they have sneakers, or they're not pleasing to the eye.....or you don't have enough money or whatever.......SO WHO ARE THE ELITISTS.... ?

[Guest frankthetank]

Yup...You guys are spoiled and don't know a great thing when you have it. ;D Just wish they'd put a cap on the damn expensive drink prices and cover charges that is the standard.

[Guest Jason_B]

I wonder if minimal was "the" sound in the clubs, if the music heads would still bitch?

There are a large number of MEGA Clubs in European Countries that book minimal/techno dj's on a weekly basis. Im sure they do the whole RS or Em booking from time to time. But their big bucks come from these parties for the "Minimal Idiots" (As Level said on another post).

USA is behind 5 years when it comes to electronic music and Cell phones! Maybe even hiphop, those french guys are stepping up in the hiphop scene. Of course in europe.

Fuck even Latin American countries book minimal/techno dj's more than here. And they are 3rd world countries. These parties make money every where else, just not in Miami.

My 0.2!

[Guest pod]

Not everywhere else.

Europe isn't this magical wonderland of dance music where every party makes money and everyone's a "minimal idiot". I've read their versions of CJ, and they have as many fuckups as we do Stateside.

Also, isn't the fun part about living on this rock the variety? I mean, if everywhere was a minimal idiot party, why travel? If everyone's so hard up to see these guys, pony up the plane tix and head on over.

Behind in cell phones? Where'd that come from? Sure, 3G deployments are down, but that's because of deregulation.

[Guest Jason_B]

Thats all I had to say... when i said european countries i really meant everywhere aside from USA.

This Thread is just full of personel opinions/views on music. Its like talking about religion.

Disclaimer: I just want to say as much as i do love the "tech/minimal scene" i still support local artist to this day. Roland & Qba are one of my favorites right now here. I also like Mr. Patrick M., O.G. and the rest of the gang. I believe you guys do a great profesional job. I used to promote for the parantula gang back in Nocturnal, I did it becuase I believed in their goals and they are very "Real People".

[Guest pod]

Well, you realize that there's variety in the world. I don't fault anyone for liking the Miami "electro-whatever" sound that's prevalent these days. It'll be something else next year. Just like it'll be something else with the cool kids. Minimal is done from what I know.

[Guest Jason_B]

Well, you realize that there's variety in the world. I don't fault anyone for liking the Miami "electro-whatever" sound that's prevalent these days. It'll be something else next year. Just like it'll be something else with the cool kids. Minimal is done from what I know.

Lets go to la covacha pod!

I mean, they have extremly good bottle specials & hot, almost underage, latinas. Since Music is not the top reason for going out then it shouldnt be a problem.

[Guest Major]

I wanna meet Richie Hawtin.

[Guest Jason_B]

I wanna meet Richie Hawtin.

he's mean! he only talks to skinny girls and makes out with sven vath! lol

[Guest pod]

Lets go to la covacha pod!

Supposed to go last week with Gino, but I got busy here.

[Guest JustDade]

You know what Nelson...you guys should just stop beating around the bush, and say what it is you really want to say...

Give us the masterplan....the TRUTH

You oviously have made a clear judgement that the DJs currently playing at local clubs are beneath you and your superior form of dance music...I say you tell us WHY you are more qualified than them..oh wait...I mean US....YOU are going to teach us right? YOU are going to revolutionize Miami nightlife, where we have failed..

I agree with you whole-heartedly when you say Miami has a LONG way to go....as far as achieving a diverse EDM scene....but man, shitting on the guys that are fighting your fight is just dumb and ultimately only SELF-SERVING...

less than ten years ago.....trance was king here.....so I hit the road...FOR YEARS....thats just the way it was....what should I do??? sit here moping around because noone wanted to hear house music? Bad mouth George Acosta, Edgar V, David Padilla (and whoever else was playing Trance) at the more popular clubs? absolutely not! I respected them as fellow artists..was happy for their success and had and maintain friendships with all of them (regardless of genre)

All that being said...I disagree with the opinion that people in this town will not, or can not get into new sounds and new music...Miami actually has a long lineage of great dance music...we've just been SPOILED ROTTEN for the last few years and now were moving into a new era (opportunity!!)....I also agree that the clubs have oversaturated and tried to milk the "Superstar DJ" trend to the BONE! and we have payed the price as a scene...but most importantly its the DJs...If the DJs succumb to being safe...especially when the going is good...it only sets us back.. (us meaning people that have dedicated most of their lives to building a decent music scene in this town) We as DJs in this town need to take some responsibility and give people their moneys worth....do your fucking research and find some fresh GOOD music that will move your audience..without pounding them over the head with the same safe tracks...but also without LOOSING your audience..

I have zero interest in VIPs and dress codes...I think their pretty dumb quite frankly...and many times undermine the whole concept of the music I love...but I also realize that certain people prefer a certain type of service/enviroment...and that is there right...especially since theyre spending theyre hard earned cash on it..

I think you "minimal, tech" dudes should get off your high horse and realize a few things:

for starters...youre just part of a trend yourselves...Most DJs (who are KNOWN for Mimimal) are RUNNING away from that term at this point...any categorization or labeling of music is just a marketing ploy anyway...and to feel an alleigeance to just ONE of these terms, labels, brands is very limiting...especially as a DJ...

The people you diss on here indirectly...are probably the ONLY people that can and WILL help u guys out (I mean the working DJs you feel are inadequate)...and are among the ONLY ones who believe in what you are trying to do...and the music you love..

There is a community of DJs/ artists in this town...that although is small..and very diverse in styles...is very present....and I for one talk to many of these guys on a regular basis..exchange music....support eachothers gigs etc....You seem to have that as well...but for some reason, have decided to set yourselves apart...and somehow place yourselves on some type of superior platform....where you throw around words like "underground" "real music" "mega-clubs" "monopoly" but yet...what youre bitching about...is that you arent getting YOUR music into the mega-clubs...bottom line is: if you make or play music...you want an audience...and we are all trying to get our sound out there...because we believe in it..but it isnt cool, in my opinion, to hate on the guys that are doing their thing when its their turn...HOUSE was a bad word around here not too long ago...give it some time kids! and dont take yourselves out of the game, before its even begun..

Oscar, I agree with everything you said except the part about Nova's attitude being "self-serving." The reality is that it is Self-defeating. You're a guy who can get someone a slot at a mega-club but the next time that opportunity comes up I'll bet you won't think of Nova first.

You know as well as I do that we're really talking about a very young scene as it relates to EDM. I remember, as you do, when the only guest Djs Miami ever saw were Razor and Guido.....Keoki and a few other "NY House" jocks. I remember when the "Novas" of the world were all about "progressive house" and were hell-bent on educating the masses. This is nothing new.

BUT.....he is so bitter that he can't see the forrest for the trees. He feels that DJs like you are beneath him and it's only due to the greed and avarice of guys like Louis combined with the stupidity of the masses that keep you in place and keep a great talent like him down. Nevermind the dues you've paid or the times when this town abandoned you.

[Guest Mattivi]

Well, you realize that there's variety in the world. I don't fault anyone for liking the Miami "electro-whatever" sound that's prevalent these days. It'll be something else next year. Just like it'll be something else with the cool kids. Minimal is done from what I know.

Lets go to la covacha pod!

I mean, they have extremly good bottle specials & hot, almost underage, latinas. Since Music is not the top reason for going out then it shouldnt be a problem.

hot barely legal latinas!!! sign me up ;D

[Guest Jason_B]

Lets go to la covacha pod!

Supposed to go last week with Gino, but I got busy here.

On a night Parantula is not playing...

[Guest Floribel]

Well, you realize that there's variety in the world. I don't fault anyone for liking the Miami "electro-whatever" sound that's prevalent these days. It'll be something else next year. Just like it'll be something else with the cool kids. Minimal is done from what I know.

Lets go to la covacha pod!

I mean, they have extremly good bottle specials & hot, almost underage, latinas. Since Music is not the top reason for going out then it shouldnt be a problem.

Oh, jeez.. some of you take yourselves too seriously...

Went to La Covacha for Bacilo's last concert. Guess what? I had fun dancing to non-EDM music! And guess what? I would probably also able to enjoy myself if for some reason the night ends up taking me somewhere I didn't expect it... not everyone is a music-head like you (by the look of recent threads, I must remove myself from the music-head category).

I get the point of the thread, and it's improtant that there are 'concerned' people... but this trashing other crowds/tastes really gets you nowhere. Is it necessary to trash everyone esle in order to support the type of thing you'd like to see more often?

[Guest pod]

That seems to be a sport in the music-elitist community.

[Guest Jason_B]

Well, you realize that there's variety in the world. I don't fault anyone for liking the Miami "electro-whatever" sound that's prevalent these days. It'll be something else next year. Just like it'll be something else with the cool kids. Minimal is done from what I know.

Lets go to la covacha pod!

I mean, they have extremly good bottle specials & hot, almost underage, latinas. Since Music is not the top reason for going out then it shouldnt be a problem.

Oh, jeez.. some of you take yourselves too seriously...

Went to La Covacha for Bacilo's last concert. Guess what? I had fun dancing to non-EDM music! And guess what? I would probably also able to enjoy myself if for some reason the night ends up taking me somewhere I didn't expect it... not everyone is a music-head like you (by the look of recent threads, I must remove myself from the music-head category).

I get the point of the thread, and it's improtant that there are 'concerned' people... but this trashing other crowds/tastes really gets you nowhere. Is it necessary to trash everyone esle in order to support the type of thing you'd like to see more often?

Hey, im not trashing music styles here.. Fuck, the first thing i learned how to dance in dom. rep. is merengue and bachata... I like to go cultural from time to time.. so i hope that wasnt referring to me...

Besides I dont only list to EDM...