November 24th 2007 : ERIC MORILLO @ KARU' AND Y

[Guest JustDade]

Fair enough. The problem is, the experience at Space, Karu & Y (probably), and Mansion for a DJ like Morillo pretty much entails being packed in like cattle. He's on a huge rate and EVERY club he plays at needs to make that up. That isn't going to change until the day after he can't fill anywhere he plays to capacity plus for whatever they see fit to charge to get in. That's when EDM (for the Tiestos and Morillos of the world) is in trouble. The venues aren't killing the scene now, what they need to do to pay these rates is.

A couple of things.....

Assuming you are right, is it not better for the overall scene to have as many people as possible exposed to Morillo?

The math is simple: Assume Erick is getting $50K.....also assume that the club intends to break even at the door and make their money from the bar...

600 ppl = $83 each

1200 ppl = $41.40 each

2400 = $20.70

Is it not better for the scene if 2400 people get to experience Morillo and share their experience to grow the scene?

When clubs like K&Y, INK, and others who looked at this market as beneath them start doing DJ events because they view it as a way to pay the bills, usually they don't do it well. They don't know how to promote those types of shows so the crowd is usually thin. They don't respect the DJ or his art. They don't appreciate the crowd. On the whole, it hurts the scene especially for those who do it as a format. The exception would be Suite who, at least, brought in Biz to ensure it's done right.

[B-SIDE1414779017]

2008 Audi A4 2.0 TFSI 200HP 6 Speed Starting at $28,900

http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/new_cars/Audi_A4/A4/Model_Features.html

2008 Audi S4 4.2 Quattro 340HP 6 Speed Starting at $48,610

http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/new_cars/Audi_A4/S4.html

Both new cars....both Audi's.... both 4 door sedans. Clearly two different cars. I guess those who can't afford the S4 should consider the A4 but shouldn't diss Audi for charging $20K more for 140HP and considerably significant technology for the same vehicle...an A4.

This analogy can be exercised with many other examples.....it's called 'apples and oranges'

Hahaha man you've been riding in Erik's car waaaayyy too much...

But you def get what you pay for... why buy a VW w/ an Audi logo when you really want an Audi...

Bottom Line here is a Prediction: some people will go, some won't some will feel it's worth it others will feel ripped off...

but the DJ's will make what they ask for or agree to (sometimes to secure a cozy conf. spot or other deals)

And honestly i do agree that DJ's fee's should reflect the capacity of the venue no matter how large / small.. and the Venues should pay more local DJ's upon the same scale (given thier years of experience)...

[Guest JustDade]

But you def get what you pay for... why buy a VW w/ an Audi logo when you really want an Audi...

B-side....how the hell are you? Long time......

The thing is that in this case I don't think you're getting what you're paying for. Is this show worth more than Morillo at Mansion or Morillo at Space, in your opinion? Remember, this is in the Tottem room not the Garden. Do you think that's a better venue than the others? Mansion is a much nicer venue with hotter chicks.......just sayin.

[Guest skywalker01]

Also thats a holiday weekend so I think it is likely people will spend money on going to this. Some people like to celebrate and spend more money than usual around the holidays.

agreed, holiday weekends are always busy in clubland. and dade, i disagree that the person that buys a $40 pre-sale is now priced out with the $60 ticket.

i still can't believe that these big names are commanding the ridiculous booking fees for a few hours of work.

[Guest JustDade]

agreed, holiday weekends are always busy in clubland. and dade, i disagree that the person that buys a $40 pre-sale is now priced out with the $60 ticket.

Some will be....some won't.

[Guest JustDade]

i still can't believe that these big names are commanding the ridiculous booking fees for a few hours of work.

It really isn't the fault of the DJs. As more and more clubs failed with their original concepts they looked to the Djs and their crowds to fill the venues. This led to increased competition for these jocks, which drove the prices up. It's just normal free-market economics. The fees will only come down when clubs stop fighting each other to pay more.

Interesting math.....

in 2000 I could book Morillo for $5,000

Now he's getting $50,000

Increase = 1000%

In 2000 we charged $20 cover for Morillo

Now = $60

Increase = 300%

We were really making out well back then. If we did 1000 covers we made $15,000 profit at the door. If they do 1000 covers now, they will make $10,000 profit at the door. Seems wrong when you consider they invested 10 times what we did.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

As if it wasn't already obvious... some people have WAY too much time on their hands. I know I know, I've been guilty in the past, but this just seems ridiculous.

To claim that Karu's pricing strategy on this show is somehow going to hurt EDM in the slightest is ridiculous and raises suspicion of ulterior motives because it's so ridiculous.

To claim that Karu is somehow an S4 and Mansion and/or Space are A4's is equally ridiculous and raises suspicion of ulterior motives.

Reality:

• Space/Mansion/Karu have similar capacities (and presentation: sound, girls, aesthetic), at least similar enough to where neither one is going to appreciably limit potential "exposure to Morillo".

• Morillo's following is full of ballers and wanna-be-ballers and the extra $50 cost of seeing him at Karu won't make a lick of difference because these people have no financial responsibility to begin with. Dade makes it sound like these people actually keep a budget and will balk at shelling out an extra $50 when the reality is that they will likely shell out an extra $100 and won't know it until their bank or credit card company starts calling.

B-Side hit the nail on the head, "some people will go, some won't. Some will feel it's worth it, others will feel ripped off..." and life will go on unchanged from this night.

With all that said... if any of y'all want to be exposed to some of the most amazing sounds in EDM then come to Laundry Bar the night before, Friday November 23rd, for Bill Patrick and Dennis Rodgers (www.wearerobots.net). These two guys will definitely be making some converts out of non-believers.

[Guest swank]

As if it wasn't already obvious... some people have WAY too much time on their hands. I know I know, I've been guilty in the past, but this just seems ridiculous.

To claim that Karu's pricing strategy on this show is somehow going to hurt EDM in the slightest is ridiculous and raises suspicion of ulterior motives because it's so ridiculous.

To claim that Karu is somehow an S4 and Mansion and/or Space are A4's is equally ridiculous and raises suspicion of ulterior motives.

Reality:

• Space/Mansion/Karu have similar capacities (and presentation: sound, girls, aesthetic), at least similar enough to where neither one is going to appreciably limit potential "exposure to Morillo".

• Morillo's following is full of ballers and wanna-be-ballers and the extra $50 cost of seeing him at Karu won't make a lick of difference because these people have no financial responsibility to begin with. Dade makes it sound like these people actually keep a budget and will balk at shelling out an extra $50 when the reality is that they will likely shell out an extra $100 and won't know it until their bank or credit card company starts calling.

B-Side hit the nail on the head, "some people will go, some won't. Some will feel it's worth it, others will feel ripped off..." and life will go on unchanged from this night.

With all that said... if any of y'all want to be exposed to some of the most amazing sounds in EDM then come to Laundry Bar the night before, Friday November 23rd, for Bill Patrick and Dennis Rodgers (www.wearerobots.net). These two guys will definitely be making some converts out of non-believers.

Ulterior Motives...? [insert rolling eyes emoticons]

[Guest JustDade]

As if it wasn't already obvious... some people have WAY too much time on their hands. I know I know, I've been guilty in the past, but this just seems ridiculous.

To claim that Karu's pricing strategy on this show is somehow going to hurt EDM in the slightest is ridiculous and raises suspicion of ulterior motives because it's so ridiculous.

To claim that Karu is somehow an S4 and Mansion and/or Space are A4's is equally ridiculous and raises suspicion of ulterior motives.

Reality:

• Space/Mansion/Karu have similar capacities (and presentation: sound, girls, aesthetic), at least similar enough to where neither one is going to appreciably limit potential "exposure to Morillo".

• Morillo's following is full of ballers and wanna-be-ballers and the extra $50 cost of seeing him at Karu won't make a lick of difference because these people have no financial responsibility to begin with. Dade makes it sound like these people actually keep a budget and will balk at shelling out an extra $50 when the reality is that they will likely shell out an extra $100 and won't know it until their bank or credit card company starts calling.

B-Side hit the nail on the head, "some people will go, some won't. Some will feel it's worth it, others will feel ripped off..." and life will go on unchanged from this night.

With all that said... if any of y'all want to be exposed to some of the most amazing sounds in EDM then come to Laundry Bar the night before, Friday November 23rd, for Bill Patrick and Dennis Rodgers (www.wearerobots.net). These two guys will definitely be making some converts out of non-believers.

Just because someone expresses a point of view that is contrary to yours does not mean they have any sinister motives. I have nothing against K&Y. I did some stuff there and Elliot, the owner, was a stand up guy. Even when things went less-well than expected, he lived up to his end of the deal and that's all you can ask. We had a minor falling out over a $500 bill they owed to a sound company that I had vouched for and eventually had to pay because they wouldn't, but it's all settled and over. If you think that motivates me to try and hurt them, you're way off base.

I've said before that as a whole, K&Y is a spectacular facility. However, Morillo isn't playing in the whole venue....he's playing in Tottem. Swank may not want to address the comments that I made along with that observation, such as the rattles, temp bars, bad lighting, but that does not mean they're not true. If you compare Tottem to the main room at Mansion or Space, it falls way short. It has a capacity far short of the other two, is nowhere near as well operated, has less access to bar service, has higher prices, is in a less desireable location, and is a far less attractive room...not to mention that there is no afterhours despite the advertising to the contrary..I notice you have not touched that subject.

When I have offered opinions about the pricing's effects on the scene, I have included the reasons behind my thinking. You two only offer that it's "ridiculous" but fail to include any explanation to support your theory. I guess you never took debate in high school. Swank dishes attacks and insinuates that my motives are hostile but never answers a question or criticism nor does he offer anything in the way of an explanation for his position.

But....Swank invoked the mighty "rolling eyes emoticon" so I guess that proves his point!

[Guest Orls]

Dade - I think the math speaks for itself with respect to the cost of bringing an EM to your venue, but it does seem like you are insinuating negativity towards K&Y. I do think that EM regardless of where he played this weekend would get his $50k. So in reality it doesn't matter who books him? The only difference would be peoples preferences to where they would want to see him. Having said that, K&Y would probably be close to my last choice of where I would want to see EM.

The thing that I dont follow is why he ended up at K&Y, did they out bid the other clubs or did they just get to him first?

[Guest musicalmissionary]

When I have offered opinions about the pricing's effects on the scene, I have included the reasons behind my thinking. You two only offer that it's "ridiculous" but fail to include any explanation to support your theory. I guess you never took debate in high school.point!

If I recall, your opinion could be roughly summed up by saying you think Karu is pricing people out of this experience; people who might otherwise have gone to see Morillo at Space and/or Mansion. I believe I responded as follows:

"Morillo's following is full of ballers and wanna-be-ballers and the extra $50 cost of seeing him at Karu won't make a lick of difference because these people have no financial responsibility to begin with. Dade makes it sound like these people actually keep a budget and will balk at shelling out an extra $50 when the reality is that they will likely shell out an extra $100 and won't know it until their bank or credit card company starts calling."

There's a lot more words there than just "ridiculous" and I believe it qualifies as a valid reasoning for my opinion. Or did you never take Reading in elementary school? Don't tell me you actually think the average clubber in Miami balances his/her checkbook each weekend before going out and decides what they can afford that weekend? Of course, some do, but most sadly don't. The American consumer lives and breathes through over-extended credit.

And I have been in the Tottem Room a few times and it is huge with an actual dancefloor which might actually enhance the experience for the non-bottle-puppy crowd. And the sound was up to par for my standards which are not low. I did not hear any rattling last weekend but I also didn't stand in every spot possible. My friends that went searching for drinks seemed to return pretty quickly. The overall feel of the place is high class. And I happen to like the lack of clutter of the big open room with a kickin sound system versus the cluttered VIP-whore layout of Mansion.

Are those enough reasons to support my opinion that it's stupid to argue that neither Mansion, Space, nor Karu can claim to be best suited to benefit the EDM community? And neither can be accused of being bad for the EDM scene? It's a wash... a fuckin wash. And it is my belief that arguing otherwise is foolish... and RAISES SUSPICION of an ulterior motive. Notice I'm not flat out accusing... just pointing out that there is undoubtedly reason to be suspicious given the facts.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

The thing that I dont follow is why he ended up at K&Y, did they out bid the other clubs or did they just get to him first?

Have you been there... in the main room? Just curious. It doesn't surprise me one bit he ended up there. It's an attractive venue... period. All around nice place. Doesn't surprise me one bit Morillo is down to play at an attractive venue that attracts beautiful people (just the same as Mansion and Space). A thorough Pro-Con analysis of all three venues would reveal how roughly equal they are from an overall perspective.

[Guest eroc0411]

If I recall, your opinion could be roughly summed up by saying you think Karu is pricing people out of this experience; people who might otherwise have gone to see Morillo at Space and/or Mansion. I believe I responded as follows:

"Morillo's following is full of ballers and wanna-be-ballers and the extra $50 cost of seeing him at Karu won't make a lick of difference because these people have no financial responsibility to begin with. Dade makes it sound like these people actually keep a budget and will balk at shelling out an extra $50 when the reality is that they will likely shell out an extra $100 and won't know it until their bank or credit card company starts calling."

There's a lot more words there than just "ridiculous" and I believe it qualifies as a valid reasoning for my opinion. Or did you never take Reading in elementary school? Don't tell me you actually think the average clubber in Miami balances his/her checkbook each weekend before going out and decides what they can afford that weekend? Of course, some do, but most sadly don't. The American consumer lives and breathes through over-extended credit.

And I have been in the Tottem Room a few times and it is huge with an actual dancefloor which might actually enhance the experience for the non-bottle-puppy crowd. And the sound was up to par for my standards which are not low. I did not hear any rattling last weekend but I also didn't stand in every spot possible. My friends that went searching for drinks seemed to return pretty quickly. The overall feel of the place is high class. And I happen to like the lack of clutter of the big open room with a kickin sound system versus the cluttered VIP-whore layout of Mansion.

Are those enough reasons to support my opinion that it's stupid to argue that neither Mansion, Space, nor Karu can claim to be best suited to benefit the EDM community? And neither can be accused of being bad for the EDM scene? It's a wash... a fuckin wash. And it is my belief that arguing otherwise is foolish... and RAISES SUSPICION of an ulterior motive. Notice I'm not flat out accusing... just pointing out that there is undoubtedly reason to be suspicious given the facts.

Amen...

Give me a nice looking venue, a decent sound system and beautiful chicks walking around... I'm a happy camper...

[Guest Orls]

Have you been there... in the main room? Just curious. It doesn't surprise me one bit he ended up there. It's an attractive venue... period. All around nice place. Doesn't surprise me one bit Morillo is down to play at an attractive venue that attracts beautiful people (just the same as Mansion and Space). A thorough Pro-Con analysis of all three venues would reveal how roughly equal they are from an overall perspective.

Yes I have been there, but you missing the point of my question. I'm not in the biz so I'm curious how it all goes down with respect to booking these DJ's.

[Guest JustDade]

Dade - I think the math speaks for itself with respect to the cost of bringing an EM to your venue, but it does seem like you are insinuating negativity towards K&Y. I do think that EM regardless of where he played this weekend would get his $50k. So in reality it doesn't matter who books him? The only difference would be peoples preferences to where they would want to see him. Having said that, K&Y would probably be close to my last choice of where I would want to see EM.

The thing that I dont follow is why he ended up at K&Y, did they out bid the other clubs or did they just get to him first?

I'm not negative towards the venue or the show.....I'm negative about the show at that venue for the reasons I've stated over and over. The answer to your question is YES, it matters who books him. If the venue had twice the capacity, the show could cost the customers half as much.

K&Y worked for the booking and they bid high.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

Yes I have been there, but you missing the point of my question. I'm not in the biz so I'm curious how it all goes down with respect to booking these DJ's.

I'm not being sarcastic... this is how it works:

Step 1: Representative of Club XYZ (or independent promoter with a venue in mind) contacts DJ's agent and makes an offer for a specific date.

Step 2: DJ's agent and/or DJ decide if the date is available and if the offer is attractive.

Step 3: If Step 2 yields two yes's than a contract is drafted and signed and deposits paid if necessary.

In the past, certain DJs would only play for only certain promoters/venues within a city but those types of arrangements seem to be dwindling. Free markets prevail.

[Guest swank]

de·bate /dɪˈbeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-beyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing. –noun 1.a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports. 2.a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers. 3.deliberation; consideration. 4.Archaic. strife; contention. –verb (used without object) 5.to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating. 6.to participate in a formal debate. 7.to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not. 8.Obsolete. to fight; quarrel. –verb (used with object) 9.to argue or discuss (a question, issue, or the like), as in a legislative or public assembly: They debated the matter of free will. 10.to dispute or disagree about: The homeowners debated the value of a road on the island. 11.to engage in formal argumentation or disputation with (another person, group, etc.): Jones will debate Smith. Harvard will debate Princeton. 12.to deliberate upon; consider: He debated his decision in the matter. 13.Archaic. to contend for or over.

Dade...

1) Please believe me when I tell you I know a little about debate, I know enough to debate with someone who will provide interesting and provocative debate instead of always reply with "Why is it that someone who has a different opinion than you...".

2) Different opinions are what the world is made up of...your opinions are not the 'LAW', so stop politely insulting those who do not agree with you.

3) You don't need to be counting other peoples profits...that is the most ridiculous thing I have seen on these boards. Don't be so concerned about Club 'XYZ's bank account since it won't affect your life unless you are an active partner in the business.

4) I am truly sorry about your wife (and I really mean that) but I'm disappointed that you brought her into this thread in such a manner. But since you are bringing family into the discussion,

a)I have 21 Uncles and Aunts

b)I have 37 cousins

c)Of the 68 immediate family members 8 are MD's and 2 are PHD's

d)Those 2 PHD's research Cancer at John's Hopkins and Harvard Medical School

e)I have lost too many friends and family to Cancer

I do not take cancer lightly...I was trying to make a point. The point is whatever you decide to do in life does not make you less of a person if you enjoy what you do. Just because one decides to research Cancer does not make them a better person, some would question if it makes them a more productive sector of the population. That is all relative and subject to one's opinions. If you were not proud of the business you were in....those are issues you need to deal with.

5) I have a wife and two children...those who know me know that I don't make my living by throwing a party called 'THERAPY'. This is a labor of love...like a hobby. Some people go fishing, ride dirt bikes or play golf. I throw parties and if I make a few bucks at it....bonus. FYI - We've been throwing this party for 8 years globally so we didn't just have a party and people came.

6) To answer your so engulfing question...A4-S4 I didn't mention one club....again you did. I know and have worked with the Roman and with Kev and crew from the other venue. I like KARU&Y because it suits MY lifestyle.

1)I like to visit all rooms without going up and down stairs.

2)I like to go out to the Tottem garden and chill ( I don't need to have shit going on out there)

3)I like the area since I can park in 1 sec. or valet if I feel like it

4)I like the crowds on the nights I go there

5)I like the potential of a place that has been open for less than a year

6)I like being able to eat on sight and cross over when done

So to me because of MY opinion it is the S4 of clubs in that sector. I don't care how they got EM there...in fact if General Electric was going to give them $100K to sponsor the event, then they just made $50K so I don't try to reason why people do the things that they do.

7) Rattling in the club - NO

8) Slow bars - NO

9) Couches? - WTF? I'll worry about the quality of the couches my wife splurges on for our home.

10) This debate is time consuming and I'm going swimming with the kids...it's Saturday and that's what we do.

[Guest JustDade]

If I recall, your opinion could be roughly summed up by saying you think Karu is pricing people out of this experience; people who might otherwise have gone to see Morillo at Space and/or Mansion. I believe I responded as follows:

"Morillo's following is full of ballers and wanna-be-ballers and the extra $50 cost of seeing him at Karu won't make a lick of difference because these people have no financial responsibility to begin with. Dade makes it sound like these people actually keep a budget and will balk at shelling out an extra $50 when the reality is that they will likely shell out an extra $100 and won't know it until their bank or credit card company starts calling."

There's a lot more words there than just "ridiculous" and I believe it qualifies as a valid reasoning for my opinion. Or did you never take Reading in elementary school? Don't tell me you actually think the average clubber in Miami balances his/her checkbook each weekend before going out and decides what they can afford that weekend? Of course, some do, but most sadly don't. The American consumer lives and breathes through over-extended credit.

And I have been in the Tottem Room a few times and it is huge with an actual dancefloor which might actually enhance the experience for the non-bottle-puppy crowd. And the sound was up to par for my standards which are not low. I did not hear any rattling last weekend but I also didn't stand in every spot possible. My friends that went searching for drinks seemed to return pretty quickly. The overall feel of the place is high class. And I happen to like the lack of clutter of the big open room with a kickin sound system versus the cluttered VIP-whore layout of Mansion.

Are those enough reasons to support my opinion that it's stupid to argue that neither Mansion, Space, nor Karu can claim to be best suited to benefit the EDM community? And neither can be accused of being bad for the EDM scene? It's a wash... a fuckin wash. And it is my belief that arguing otherwise is foolish... and RAISES SUSPICION of an ulterior motive. Notice I'm not flat out accusing... just pointing out that there is undoubtedly reason to be suspicious given the facts.

MM, your points are completely valid. I agree with some of what you've said but I'm a little surprised to hear you take that position. I don't know you but I have always thought of you as part of the whole Aquabooty crew.....so to speak. In that light, I assumed you would be a champion of the little guy. I've done enough of these to know that the bulk of the dancefloor crowd you speak of, and I thought you were a part of, does care about the price.

I've explained my relationship with and feelings toward the vanue. There really is no axe to grind. It's funny that you are suspicious of my motives but I have no financial interest one way or another, no loyalty or allegience to any other venue, am not competing in any way, and just offered honest commentary as I always have. I've answered every question put to me honestly. Yet Swank, who refuses to answer any questions, makes his living there, and has every reason to support them regardless of what is said gets to accuse me of ulterior motives? Seems disingenuous.

[Guest mr.miami]

Is anyone able to confirm whether, or not this will have an after hours?

[Guest swank]

MM, your points are completely valid. I agree with some of what you've said but I'm a little surprised to hear you take that position. I don't know you but I have always thought of you as part of the whole Aquabooty crew.....so to speak. In that light, I assumed you would be a champion of the little guy. I've done enough of these to know that the bulk of the dancefloor crowd you speak of, and I thought you were a part of, does care about the price.

I've explained my relationship with and feelings toward the vanue. There really is no axe to grind. It's funny that you are suspicious of my motives but I have no financial interest one way or another, no loyalty or allegience to any other venue, am not competing in any way, and just offered honest commentary as I always have. I've answered every question put to me honestly. Yet Swank, who refuses to answer any questions, makes his living there, and has every reason to support them regardless of what is said gets to accuse me of ulterior motives? Seems disingenuous.

Again...there you go making statements you have absolutely no idea about? Who told you that I make 'my living' there?

For the record....I won't answer questions that I don't deem worth answering...that's my right. I am not forced to answer questions because YOU pose them.

[Guest JustDade]

Dade...

1) Please believe me when I tell you I know a little about debate, I know enough to debate with someone who will provide interesting and provocative debate instead of always reply with "Why is it that someone who has a different opinion than you...".

True.....but this is the first post where you have actually answered anything I have said rather than deflecting.

2) Different opinions are what the world is made up of...your opinions are not the 'LAW', so stop politely insulting those who do not agree with you.

If I came off insulting, I honestly apologise. I don't think you will find anywhere that I have dismissed the opinions of others or declared myself the law. These are my opinions and I expressed them with confidence. Again, sorry if I offended you, it was not my intent.

3) You don't need to be counting other peoples profits...that is the most ridiculous thing I have seen on these boards. Don't be so concerned about Club 'XYZ's bank account since it won't affect your life unless you are an active partner in the business.

I was actually solicited by K&Y to be financially involved in this event. I declined. That said, my comments were directed at the effect that this sort of thing has on the overall market. I happen to believe that the extremely high covers we are seeing are part of the decline of EDM both at the clubs and in music sales.

4) I am truly sorry about your wife (and I really mean that) but I'm disappointed that you brought her into this thread in such a manner. But since you are bringing family into the discussion,

a)I have 21 Uncles and Aunts

b)I have 37 cousins

c)Of the 68 immediate family members 8 are MD's and 2 are PHD's

d)Those 2 PHD's research Cancer at John's Hopkins and Harvard Medical School

e)I have lost too many friends and family to Cancer

I do not take cancer lightly...I was trying to make a point. The point is whatever you decide to do in life does not make you less of a person if you enjoy what you do. Just because one decides to research Cancer does not make them a better person, some would question if it makes them a more productive sector of the population. That is all relative and subject to one's opinions. If you were not proud of the business you were in....those are issues you need to deal with.

If you re-read your post and look at the context, I think you'll see that your explanation is a little less than honest. You took a comment I made, which I stand by, that my work in the club business is less important than cancer research and responded by asking me "Your condescending nature is apparent...since you believe that the business that you invested many hours in is not Cancer research. Does that mean that you think that everyone in the biz are a bunch of losers just passing their time?". That's an intentional misrepresentation of what I said. Now you want to take my response out of context and make it appear as though I used my wife's cancer to gain an advantage in this conversation. Again, less than honest. To be clear.....I agree that the person is not and should not be measured by their job. However, I believe that some jobs are more beneficial to mankind than others. For me the club biz was always a something that allowed me to do the things that fulfilled me.

5) I have a wife and two children...those who know me know that I don't make my living by throwing a party called 'THERAPY'. This is a labor of love...like a hobby. Some people go fishing, ride dirt bikes or play golf. I throw parties and if I make a few bucks at it....bonus. FYI - We've been throwing this party for 8 years globally so we didn't just have a party and people came.

You're obviously a bright guy so I have no idea believing that. Maybe we'll playt a round sometime.

6) To answer your so engulfing question...A4-S4 I didn't mention one club....again you did. I know and have worked with the Roman and with Kev and crew from the other venue. I like KARU&Y because it suits MY lifestyle.

1)I like to visit all rooms without going up and down stairs.

2)I like to go out to the Tottem garden and chill ( I don't need to have shit going on out there)

3)I like the area since I can park in 1 sec. or valet if I feel like it

4)I like the crowds on the nights I go there

5)I like the potential of a place that has been open for less than a year

6)I like being able to eat on sight and cross over when done

So to me because of MY opinion it is the S4 of clubs in that sector. I don't care how they got EM there...in fact if General Electric was going to give them $100K to sponsor the event, then they just made $50K so I don't try to reason why people do the things that they do.

Absolutely valid. As I have said, I like the place very much. My comments were directed at the Tottem room and this particular event.

7) Rattling in the club - NO

I have not been in there in a couple of months but it rattled like hell the last time I was there

8) Slow bars - NO

Temp bars will never be as good as permanent bars. Bartenders are at their best whan working at a familiar bar where everything is in the same place all the time. I have stood at the bar there for 20 minutes waiting for a drink with Elliot, the owner. That's slow. The Micros systems there have tons of problems due to them being wireless and portable, which also slows it down. You may have had a different experience but I have never had good service in either the Tottem or Tottem Garden. The service is much better inside Y or Y Garden.

9) Couches? - WTF? I'll worry about the quality of the couches my wife splurges on for our home.

I don't care either but if you're going to have all those beautiful finishes it is a let-down to have that one room where the furniture is so shitty.

10) This debate is time consuming and I'm going swimming with the kids...it's Saturday and that's what we do.

I have no idea how to format this.......I answered inbetween your points.......Enjoy the kids.

[Guest musicalmissionary]

MM, your points are completely valid. I agree with some of what you've said but I'm a little surprised to hear you take that position. I don't know you but I have always thought of you as part of the whole Aquabooty crew.....so to speak. In that light, I assumed you would be a champion of the little guy. I've done enough of these to know that the bulk of the dancefloor crowd you speak of, and I thought you were a part of, does care about the price.

I'm more a champion of free markets than just "the little guy". Remember, I'm in the UM MBA program now

But seriously, this is Erick Morillo we're talking about. He's priced out of "the little guy's" league to begin with. So with that in mind, the roughly $50 increase in price is negligible in my opinion... considering the spending habits within this demographic. And it's clear your main sticking point is the size of the Tottem Room driving the price up. Maybe my eyes deceived me the couple times I was in there, but it seemed REALLY big to me. One of these weekends I'll bring a tape measure with me and report back with the facts. But I have a hard time believing that it's as small as it's being portrayed here.

For "the little guy" interested in exploring EDM, I offer my Friday night Robots party for a mere $5 cover and talent I consider light-years beyond Morillo. Same goes for Three this coming Friday at Laundry Bar for FREE. Anyone willing to spend $30 or $60 for a marketing machine like Morillo gets no sympathy from me. Let the free markets rule!

[Guest JustDade]

I'm more a champion of free markets than just "the little guy". Remember, I'm in the UM MBA program now

But seriously, this is Erick Morillo we're talking about. He's priced out of "the little guy's" league to begin with. So with that in mind, the roughly $50 increase in price is negligible in my opinion... considering the spending habits within this demographic. And it's clear your main sticking point is the size of the Tottem Room driving the price up. Maybe my eyes deceived me the couple times I was in there, but it seemed REALLY big to me. One of these weekends I'll bring a tape measure with me and report back with the facts. But I have a hard time believing that it's as small as it's being portrayed here.

For "the little guy" interested in exploring EDM, I offer my Friday night Robots party for a mere $5 cover and talent I consider light-years beyond Morillo. Same goes for Three this coming Friday at Laundry Bar for FREE. Anyone willing to spend $30 or $60 for a marketing machine like Morillo gets no sympathy from me. Let the free markets rule!

When I have done events at K&Y the owner has quoted the capacity of the Tottem room as 600.

My comments had and have nothing to do with the spending habits of the local market or the ability of EM to fill a room. I have said here many times that I believe it will be full. What I was trying to say, apparently inartfully, was that guys like Erick should be more long-term thinking. As a label owner and artist he should recognize that the market has shrunk. He should also realize that there are few artists in a position to expand the market to everyone's benefit. What the EDM market needs is new blood. Since we get zero radio play and zero MTV play, we are limited in the ways we can grow the scene. We need the names....Morillo, Sasha, Oakenfold, Tiesto etc... to be a little less selfish and realize that kids follow celebrities and they are the celebs of EDM. Do you think it would benefit everyone if this show was $20 and at a place where 3000 people could experience it? I do. It's hard to get anyone but a hard-core EDM fan to come out to see the obscure talent but it's easy to get people to a Morillo show. All I am saying is that as a community we should try to apply these business principles to this scene before all that's left is $100 shows. I have to believe that a guy who offers $5 covers gets what I'm trying to say.....

[Guest swank]

statements and comments from the JUSTDADE & SWANK saga....lol

Originally Posted by swank

Dade...

1) Please believe me when I tell you I know a little about debate, I know enough to debate with someone who will provide interesting and provocative debate instead of always reply with "Why is it that someone who has a different opinion than you...".

DADE-True.....but this is the first post where you have actually answered anything I have said rather than deflecting.

2) Different opinions are what the world is made up of...your opinions are not the 'LAW', so stop politely insulting those who do not agree with you.

DADE- If I came off insulting, I honestly apologise. I don't think you will find anywhere that I have dismissed the opinions of others or declared myself the law. These are my opinions and I expressed them with confidence. Again, sorry if I offended you, it was not my intent.

3) You don't need to be counting other peoples profits...that is the most ridiculous thing I have seen on these boards. Don't be so concerned about Club 'XYZ's bank account since it won't affect your life unless you are an active partner in the business.

DADE-I was actually solicited by K&Y to be financially involved in this event. I declined. That said, my comments were directed at the effect that this sort of thing has on the overall market. I happen to believe that the extremely high covers we are seeing are part of the decline of EDM both at the clubs and in music sales.

4) I am truly sorry about your wife (and I really mean that) but I'm disappointed that you brought her into this thread in such a manner. But since you are bringing family into the discussion,

a)I have 21 Uncles and Aunts

b)I have 37 cousins

c)Of the 68 immediate family members 8 are MD's and 2 are PHD's

d)Those 2 PHD's research Cancer at John's Hopkins and Harvard Medical School

e)I have lost too many friends and family to Cancer

I do not take cancer lightly...I was trying to make a point. The point is whatever you decide to do in life does not make you less of a person if you enjoy what you do. Just because one decides to research Cancer does not make them a better person, some would question if it makes them a more productive sector of the population. That is all relative and subject to one's opinions. If you were not proud of the business you were in....those are issues you need to deal with.

DADE-If you re-read your post and look at the context, I think you'll see that your explanation is a little less than honest. You took a comment I made, which I stand by, that my work in the club business is less important than cancer research and responded by asking me "Your condescending nature is apparent...since you believe that the business that you invested many hours in is not Cancer research. Does that mean that you think that everyone in the biz are a bunch of losers just passing their time?". That's an intentional misrepresentation of what I said. Now you want to take my response out of context and make it appear as though I used my wife's cancer to gain an advantage in this conversation. Again, less than honest. To be clear.....I agree that the person is not and should not be measured by their job. However, I believe that some jobs are more beneficial to mankind than others. For me the club biz was always a something that allowed me to do the things that fulfilled me.

5) I have a wife and two children...those who know me know that I don't make my living by throwing a party called 'THERAPY'. This is a labor of love...like a hobby. Some people go fishing, ride dirt bikes or play golf. I throw parties and if I make a few bucks at it....bonus. FYI - We've been throwing this party for 8 years globally so we didn't just have a party and people came.

DADE-You're obviously a bright guy so I have no idea believing that. Maybe we'll playt a round sometime.

6) To answer your so engulfing question...A4-S4 I didn't mention one club....again you did. I know and have worked with the Roman and with Kev and crew from the other venue. I like KARU&Y because it suits MY lifestyle.

1)I like to visit all rooms without going up and down stairs.

2)I like to go out to the Tottem garden and chill ( I don't need to have shit going on out there)

3)I like the area since I can park in 1 sec. or valet if I feel like it

4)I like the crowds on the nights I go there

5)I like the potential of a place that has been open for less than a year

6)I like being able to eat on sight and cross over when done

So to me because of MY opinion it is the S4 of clubs in that sector. I don't care how they got EM there...in fact if General Electric was going to give them $100K to sponsor the event, then they just made $50K so I don't try to reason why people do the things that they do.

DADE-Absolutely valid. As I have said, I like the place very much. My comments were directed at the Tottem room and this particular event.

7) Rattling in the club - NO

DADE-I have not been in there in a couple of months but it rattled like hell the last time I was there

8) Slow bars - NO

DADE-Temp bars will never be as good as permanent bars. Bartenders are at their best whan working at a familiar bar where everything is in the same place all the time. I have stood at the bar there for 20 minutes waiting for a drink with Elliot, the owner. That's slow. The Micros systems there have tons of problems due to them being wireless and portable, which also slows it down. You may have had a different experience but I have never had good service in either the Tottem or Tottem Garden. The service is much better inside Y or Y Garden.

9) Couches? - WTF? I'll worry about the quality of the couches my wife splurges on for our home.

DADE-I don't care either but if you're going to have all those beautiful finishes it is a let-down to have that one room where the furniture is so shitty.

10) This debate is time consuming and I'm going swimming with the kids...it's Saturday and that's what we do

DADE-I have no idea how to format this.......I answered inbetween your points.......Enjoy the kids.

[Guest FRESHMAN]

I say they just cancel the event and book JOJO Flores.