back2basics Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 Ok, I have been following this story for a week or so now. Basically a family came to the UK for treatment for their two daughters.They are Siamese twins, one can survive if separated. The family do not want the twins separated as they say it is not gods will. If this happens both children will die.What do you do?--------------------------------------------Medical experts have supported proposals to separate a pair of Siamese twins at the centre of a court battle. The Court of Appeal has heard a second team of doctors give their "broad support" to an operation to separate the month-old twins, named Jodie and Mary to protect their identity. The operation is likely to save Jodie but kill her weaker sister. Three senior judges called on a team from Great Ormond Street Hospital for children in London to allay any public fears that they might "rush to judgment" over whether or not to allow the operation. You invite us to treat her as a single independent life when everyone knows that if she had been born a single person she would have been left to die Lord Justice Ward Doctors at St Mary's Hospital in Manchester, where the twins were born, say not operating means both children, who are joined at the lower abdomen, could die within three to six months. The parents, who are Roman Catholic and cannot be named, believe that separating them is "not God's will" and want nature to take its course, even if that means the loss of both children. Adrian Whitfield QC, appearing for Central Manchester Healthcare Trust and the Manchester doctors, argued that the operation must go ahead to save Jodie, even if that means the death of Mary. The court heard Mary was alive only because she was attached to her "bright and alert" sister and relies on her heart and lung functions. The Great Ormond Street team - a surgeon experienced in separating Siamese twins and a paediatric cardiologist - have both examined the children. 'Save Jodie, murder Mary'David Harris QC, appointed by the Official Solicitor to act in the interests of Mary, said there were some differences of opinion with the Manchester doctors. The ruling to separate the twins was made by Mr Justice Johnson "But, broadly speaking, the Great Ormond Street evidence is unlikely to affect the thrust of the submissions," he told the court on Wednesday. Lord Justice Ward, sitting with Lord Justice Brooke and Lord Justice Robert Walker, are hearing the parents' appeal against a High Court decision last month giving permission for the operation to be carried out. The consultants are not expected to be called to give evidence but will submit a written report. Sleepless nights Lord Justice Ward, who said the case has already caused him sleepless nights, said the barristers had to persuade the court that it could exercise parental jurisdiction and say: "Save Jodie but murder Mary." "I put it starkly, but that may be what you are inviting the court to do," he said. The judge said he had deliberately put the case at its extreme to heighten the dilemma as people listening in court and outside "will perceive it to be murder or unlawful killing". Attempting to test the case from a religious viewpoint because of the parents' views, Lord Justice Ward put forward the argument that it was not God's will that Mary should live. He also suggested that Mr Harris's submission was artificial. "You invite us to treat her as a single independent life when everyone knows that if she had been born a single person she would have been left to die. "She is unnaturally hooked onto her sister, draining her sister's life and, in the end, is going to kill her sister. "She was incapable of living, that's why she wouldn't be treated - she is not capable of independent life." The judges adjourned the case until 13 September. ------------------I want to go out blazing not fade away.I can resist anything but temptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pershoot Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 I agree with the head doctor on staff....it's up to how many lives you can save...so yes, I would, if my own children, would seperate them, and have one live...instead of both passing away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonyd Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 I would murder Mary.Sounds like the parents have differnt motives. There's nothing in the Roman Catholic belief that would prevent them from making the decision to save one of the lives. Such things are more often reserved for extreme fundamentalist beliefs. The situation, to me, seems so clear cut I have trouble understanding the fuss.but that's just me.I say take it to the pope.------------------keep it cutlary www.spoonyd.iwarp.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious-spinner Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 U want my opinion?I say cut em in half. Make em book-ends.VS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-tarded Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 I believe they should be seperated so that one of the children may live. ------------------~*P*L*U*R*~ Four Simple Words To Live By.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachel1997 Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 It is not right for someone to take a life. 1) If the mother and father said they are willing for them to both die, they should have the first say.2) Who is someone to judge who is to be killed?? To die?? Are they god??God willing, it will proberbly be better for both of them to live, and if Mary drains the life out of her sister - they will proberbly both die together peacefully. God proberbly put them on earth together cuz in a past life they proberbly did not accoplish something and God put them on earth to live the final moments and correct what needs to be done in their past life. I have a story like that to tell of my sister. My sister was 9 months pregnet (sp?). The day before the delivery date, she was feeling the baby kick and move in her stomach. The next day she felt strange beacuse there was no movment. She went to the hospital and the baby died in her stomach. They went to a Rabbi for an answer. The Rabbi told her God proberbly put the baby in your womb because in a past life when he was born to someone else his mother ate non-kosher food during the pregnacy and had to come back to finish his life by staying in a womb and having kosher food and he did not have to be born. Thanks god that my sister had 2 more healthy and bright kids today. ......................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2basics Posted September 6 Author Report Share Posted September 6 Originally posted by rachel1997:God proberbly put them on earth together cuz in a past life they proberbly did not accoplish something and God put them on earth to live the final moments and correct what needs to be done in their past life. .........................................I take it you belive in Karma? Do you belive disabled people did something wrong in a past life? There is a reason for asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scramble Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 no i don't believe disabled people did something in there past life, i have an aunt who at age 11 had spinal menagitis, she stayed 11 mentally for the rest of her life. in our eyes we see it as a burden or a catastrophy (sp) but if you really think about it, god made disabled people (well in my aunts case) unaware of the everyday stresses and greifs we all go through. i mean her world consisted of coloring books and cartoons. our world consists of money, pain, love, hurt, bills, death,greif,school,work, the morbid god awful news, and a billion other tribulations. so when i look at it that way i am much more settled in my heart. Originally posted by back2basics: I take it you belive in Karma? Do you belive disabled people did something wrong in a past life? There is a reason for asking.------------------get off my dick already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachel1997 Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 Originally posted by back2basics: I take it you belive in Karma? Do you belive disabled people did something wrong in a past life? There is a reason for asking.I was brought up Religious - Jewish. Rather I was sent to a ultra orthodox Jewish School. I learned ALOT. I belive in it cuz it's true, but sometimes I won't beacuse it scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scramble Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 how can you say that you believe in i its true, when the whole theology of religion is based on belief. sorry not trying to start drama just curious. I say this because i was brought up Roman Catholic, and each religion has different views on different issues. Originally posted by rachel1997: I was brought up Religious - Jewish. Rather I was sent to a ultra orthodox Jewish School. I learned ALOT. I belive in it cuz it's true, but sometimes I won't beacuse it scares me. ------------------get off my dick already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyo Posted September 7 Report Share Posted September 7 If you can save one do it. But that's my opinion. I believe it is up to the parents, they are the ones who have to live with their decision. Look at the couple in the Midwest that had septuplets. The doctors said to abort a few because they would never make it but the parents refused. All 7 of them are thriving now. That is an intensely personal decision and they should be the ones to make it.As far as disabilities being the result of a past life, well although I firmly believe everything happens for a reason I think the whole past life thing is a load of shit.------------------A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to it's old dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artful Posted September 7 Report Share Posted September 7 I'll put it like this... especially with both going to die if they stay together... Fuck the parents... just cause your parents don't mean you get to decide the fate of your children like that-------Imagine if it was you....So fuck em... kill em if you have to ----- or imprision them or some shit and save one of those kids lives... (who knows might get lucky and keep both alive)------------------ <I'm a Fire-starter> --- When the Artful speaks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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