ME report on Twilo death

[e-tarded]

mdma the compound itself has been known to cause death only 5 times. people that have died from using mdma itself no other fillers or drugs mixed in, have died from mitigating circumstances ie: exhaustion, dehydration, poly drug use, etc... the people who have died from mdma use itself were either allergic to it, or the body was missing the key enzyme that breaks down mdma

ld50 results 106 mg/kg or ~6,000 mg.

So to die from taking mdma you would either have to be rich or the chemist. I mean come on who would take 6000mg

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~*P*L*U*R*~

Four Simple Words To Live By....

[rally]

mdma is the immediate-initial cause of death ... that DOES NOT mean the only factor!!!!

of course - as i said before - other factors clearly bring the result quicker ... hot and crowded clubs are not a good environment for dehydration ... obviously

the main point was and still is this:

be careful - because you never know ...

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Rally

there is an after-life

[deenyc22]

Originally posted by rally2000:

first - i didn't say that it HAS to be true ... but to question a medical examiner's report re: COD - just because you are a paranoid boy with propaganda-phobia is unfair.

no - you're right - the ME's office is in a conspiracy to help the mayor close Twilo ... and they have fabricated a cause of death - damaged the poor family of the deceased ... ruined the reputation of the victim ... all to close Twilo!

which is still open!!! if there was a conspiracy this wouldn't be it bro - sorry - wake the fuck up - smell the coffee and get over yourself!

"they" could make up anything about twilo - make up that drugs are stored there - something that would really shut the place down - not a fabricated cause of death!

forget the fact that the report corroborates witness accounts ... the victim was using drugs. I could go into more detail but out of respect for the family i think i should stop.

peace to you poohboy

okay, i kinda agree with rally, although i won't be as harsh. People, are we really in denial that a death may occur from e usage??? from an allergic reaction, or whatever, in rare cases, something goes wrong. why is it so hard to believe something went really astray with this man and e??? i believe that sources like the news, media, and e sites are biased, for and against the use. fact is this:

this drug is too young to determine its severity. we'll see in about 20 years. everybody has a theory, everybody has done research, it is the best we can do for right now. any theory, guess is as good as the next one. bottom line: just be careful, and be willing to accept any future consequences of using it. e is NOT a healthy substance!!!! it is a chemical you put into your system that fucks with your neurosystem.

just because people don't die from it that often, doesnt mean its not harmful

[funkysoulbro]

that's fucked up...Misskittie...How can you really think that you can't OD on xtc??

[Dolly Dagger]

It's bullshit. It's a scare tactic from the city. They are trying to make the public think that E is this really bad drug like heroin. The kid died from dehydration. I know people that have taken 12 pills in one night and were fine. E sucks anyway. It's good the first couple of times you do it then it sucks. The only way he could have died directly from the E is if he had an allergic reaction to the E. If he did E before then this would not be the case because he would have already of been dead from another time. If you start saying that you don't know what's in the pill, then that's your own fault becuase you should have tested it before taking it. That might sound perposterous at a club, but you shouldn't be taking shit when you don't know what it is. Notice they say the cause was Ecstasy and not MDMA.

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It's the 21st Century, there's other ways to get fucked up.

[apdiddy]

bro u need to relax, maybe drop a hit. u're always jumpin down people's throats. i wasnt even directing my comments at you. just saying that if you believe everything the media puts out its naive. by the media's accout tobacco and alcohol are legal so they're prolly not at all bad for you, right? that was the only point i was trying to make. chill the fuck out.

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<A HREF="/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?url=http://www.sausagenet.co.uk/pi/grapeape1.jpg" TARGET=_blank&gt;http://www.sausagenet.co.uk/pi/grapeape1.jpg</A> grapeape

[deenyc22]

Originally posted by p00h:

bro u need to relax, maybe drop a hit. u're always jumpin down people's throats. i wasnt even directing my comments at you. just saying that if you believe everything the media puts out its naive. by the media's accout tobacco and alcohol are legal so they're prolly not at all bad for you, right? that was the only point i was trying to make. chill the fuck out.

is what you read on an ecstasy site correct? people seem to believe those doctors and 'experts', but say anthing negative and its propaganda. (pooh, i do not mean to address this to you only, in general)

[rally]

Originally posted by p00h:

bro u need to relax, maybe drop a hit. u're always jumpin down people's throats. i wasnt even directing my comments at you. just saying that if you believe everything the media puts out its naive. by the media's accout tobacco and alcohol are legal so they're prolly not at all bad for you, right? that was the only point i was trying to make. chill the fuck out.

open your mouth - i'm gonna jump down your throat again - you lil peasized brain ...

i'm NOT talking about the media - get it right poohboy

I'm talking specifically about the ME's report - a comprehensive, detailed external and internal examination of the deceased, including, but not limited to, a toxicology report.

Fuck the media! i wasn't referring to a ny times article - i was referring to the ME's conclusion.

peace to you - go drop pills yourself - i don't need to ... and if you knew me - you'd know that i'm so layed back and chilled

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Rally

there is an after-life

[apdiddy]

sorry, didnt mean to get your panties in a bunch.

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[blueangel]

okay, Rally . . . calm down. This is the report that was written:

MANHATTAN: CLUB DEATH RULED OVERDOSE -- The death of a student who collapsed at a Chelsea nightclub in July resulted from an overdose of the drug Ecstasy.

He didn't say ecstasy with such and such environmental condition that contributed to his death . . or ecstasy mixed with such and such . . .or ecstasy because he was allergic . . so on and so on. No, he simply said died of ecstasy.

What pOOH and I and some other people are saying is that you can't ALWAYS take what the media spits out LITERALLY. We know that ecstatsy is bad, we know that people have died while on ecstasy PLUS other conditions. No on is arguing with you saying that there is nothing bad about it. That's not what we're saying at all.

But if a ME report is going to be that bold and make a strong statement like that then be accurate. That report is missing a lot of ingrediant.

BlueAngel

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"Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new."

- Henry David Thoreau

[rally]

Originally posted by p00h:

sorry, didnt mean to get your panties in a bunch.

panties??? hahaha - go look at yourself lil guy or is it girl ... hehe

peace to you poohboy - don't respond - this will only get childish ... leave it be

you are the REAL MAN here ...

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Rally

there is an after-life

[rally]

Originally posted by blueangel:

okay, Rally . . . calm down. This is the report that was written:

MANHATTAN: CLUB DEATH RULED OVERDOSE -- The death of a student who collapsed at a Chelsea nightclub in July resulted from an overdose of the drug Ecstasy.

He didn't say ecstasy with such and such environmental condition that contributed to his death . . or ecstasy mixed with such and such . . .or ecstasy because he was allergic . . so on and so on. No, he simply said died of ecstasy.

What pOOH and I and some other people are saying is that you can't ALWAYS take what the media spits out LITERALLY. We know that ecstatsy is bad, we know that people have died while on ecstasy PLUS other conditions. No on is arguing with you saying that there is nothing bad about it. That's not what we're saying at all.

But if a ME report is going to be that bold and make a strong statement like that then be accurate. That report is missing a lot of ingrediant.

BlueAngel

hey Casey - have you ever read an ME's report? (seriously)

they are very detailed and it's not about being BOLD - it's about a forensic pathologist conducting an examination consisting of various components and then coming to a medical conclusion.

it's not a newspaper reporter distorting the truth by screwing up what somone has already said.

that's all my point is - i wasn't referring to the article - FUCK THE ARTICLE and FUCK THE MEDIA

the ME - an expert in forensic pathology examined the corpse and came to a conclusion - reality check ... please ?

enuff from me - i'm finished - i just wanted to clarify that ... i'm stopping because i feel this is disrespectful to the family.

i shouldn't have said as much as i did already.

peace

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Rally

there is an after-life

[crommy]

I hope you guys dont really think that the reporter manipulated the ME report to pin the poor kid's death on E, do you?

The reporter was compiling metro briefs and wrote a paragraph on what happened to follow up the story they did in July.

What agenda does the reporter have to get Twilo shut down? Trust me, the NY Times has better things to do than to take part in a conspiracy to blame the death on E and shut down the NYC club scene starting with one of our favorite places, Twilo.

I posted the brief as a follow up to all the threads that speculated on what killed the kid in the week or so following his death.

To insinuate that the ME's conclusion is a lie, is ridiculous.

You take a drug, it has something in it, combines with someone already in your system, stuff can happen. We can do all the research we want on the Web and "educate" ourselves, but still, unless we are biochemists and we are taking chances.

Sorry to vent, but please, everyone be careful and try to be as safe as you can be.

[ezdreamer]

Not to make light of the situation... The fact is the guy is dead. E, K, or G. His EKG has gone flat. Put anything you like into the mix and the guy's still not alive.

Media or not, exaggerated report or not. Rumor of one substance or not, doesn't matter. Kid's still DOA.

I mean no disrespect for the him or his family, but for argument's sake would it have made a difference if he didn't do any letters of the alphabet and dropped dead? Would it have been better? The answer is NO. His number was up, simplE as that.

I know some kid that did 80 pills over a period of 5 days on vacation. Other than complaints about how much he needed sleep, he's still going on strong. However, he admitted 80 was a tad bit too much.

There are people that get runned over by a truck and survive, others blow themselves up doing all kinds of drugs, ala Richard Prior, and survive. When your number is called there ain't no place to hide. Someone I know died by accident, he was standing in the street window shopping when some driver lost control of his car. Number up? I think so.

I'm not sure if it's all fate, but you can bet anything that you do has an inherent calculated risk involved. Should you be staying out til 3 or 6 am is certainly a calculated risk whether you know it or not. More chances of getting stabbed, mugged, raped, etc.

Put this into perspective folks. Use common sense. It's one of the reasons why I like to have at least one friend I know come out with me. Perhaps the kid's life would've been saved if someone checked up on him periodically, maybe not.

In our case I believe is the reason why ClubNYC meetings are happening. So we can watch out for one another. Check up to see if the other person is okay whether they're sober or not. Ya know, a simple "Are you okay? Are you sure?" That sorta thing goes a long way instead of blaming this or that... E, alcohol, whatever, doesn't matter, things can happen no matter what, sober or not...

And don't be judgemental on what someone chose to do or not to do, just make sure that the person next to you is okay from time to time.

As far as I'm concerned, how's that Beatle song go? "I get high with a little help from my friends..."

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Dream a little dream...

[john58]

Originally posted by rally2000:

i'm NOT talking about the media - get it right poohboy

I'm talking specifically about the ME's report - a comprehensive, detailed external and internal examination of the deceased, including, but not limited to, a toxicology report.

Fuck the media! i wasn't referring to a ny times article - i was referring to the ME's conclusion.

OK, I'm confused now...

Have you seen the actual ME report Rally?

I didn't read the whole thread but the first link said the NY Times reported the contents of the report, but didn't actually print the report.

I have seen a NY Times reporter confuse creatine and steroids in an article, so personally I have no faith that they can accurately discuss the contents of a detailed autopsy report. For all we know the report said GHB killed him and the reporter confused his club drugs. I've seen articles that confused the two before.

So, if someone did publish the autopsy report, then you are right Rally, you are not talking about the media. But if all we have to go on is the NY Times's account of the report, the media issue is relevant.

BTW, I have a friend who is an emergency room physician. In three years of residency he has yet to witness an OD death from anything other than Heroin, Cocaine, Alcohol, and GHB. Does this mean ecstacy OD's can't happen. No! It does mean I would want to see the real autopsy report to believe it happened, not a reporter's version of the report.

[brandie]

Ummmmmmmm . . . one bad pill that's noth MDMA can kill you . . . so it's not necessarily quantity, it's quality . . . i used to take many pills in a night, and i weigh about 110 pounds . . . so though it could have been from a lot of pills, it's not necessarily the ONLY possibly cause of death.

My exbf took 17 pills in a couple of hours, while drinking . . . ended up in the hospital, is real fucked up now, but it didn't kill him.

luv,

brandie

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"And those who were seen dancing

were thought to be insane by those

who could not hear the music."

**NEW EMAIL!!**

brandie@powerpuff.com

or

loves2cox@netscape.net

AIM: loves2cox

[blueskygirl]

Bottom line; drugs don't kill people, people kill themselves by using drugs irresponsibly. I don't get all the fuss here... It's like saying that the drive-by was the gun's fault. I can't stand the way these tragedies are made to look like Twilo's fault or the Ecstasy industry's fault. If it were legal and controlled maybe these things wouldn't happen... Maybe.

Watch yer necks, peeps!

Blue skies,

Melissa

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All for fun and fun for all!

mbdewey@yahoo.com

[ezdreamer]

Originally posted by blueskygirl:

If it were legal and controlled maybe these things wouldn't happen... Maybe.

Nah, people die from legal substances as well. Unforseeable circumstances, yada, yada, yada. Shit happens and then some. If it were legal at least the quality would increase tenfold.

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Dream a little dream...

[paranoidandroid]

mysteriouss/pooh/blueangel - i'm with you. i'm sure there was a lot of pressure placed on the person doing the autopsy to come up with the answer that every one wants, i.e. ecstasy. as someone else mentioned earlier, it's very hard to OD on just ecstasy unlike coke/heroin/crack etc. and is more likely that the guy didn't control his environment enough. of course, he may have been so off his head that he didn't understand that he should control his environment then the line becomes blared.

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he he he he ha ha - but this is no laughing matter

[muzikjunkee]

Maybe he was wearing a long-sleeve shirt, a sweater vest, dancing 4 hours staight, and sipping on Budweiser. Otherwise, it was DXM or, even worse, a Mitsubishi PMA pill. However, most likely, it was a G overdose.

[hush]

ok all you wonderful people out there with lots of information...there is one thing you are missing...and that may be because you havent been taking e for too many years...there is virtually no pure MDMA on the market. do not believe the dealer who sells it to you when he says *oh yeah. this shit is pure!* the last time i saw pure in abundance was '96 and coming from the UK. the chemicals used to form the compound have been so regulated that in order for a pharmacutical company to get even one component they have to submit reports for months and under go investigation for the purported purpose they require it for. how do i know this? my roomate is a chemist for one of the largest pharma co's in the us...i am not saying pure MDMA is not out there-but the chaces of getting it often are slim. the death of one of our brothers was more likely due to what ever the fuck was in his pill and that he may have been on other meds or had a phyislogical abnormality that caused his body to shut down. BE CARECAREFUL. BUY FROM WHO YOU KNOW. TAKE H A L F AND SEE HOW YOU FEEL BEFORE DROPPING THE WHOLE PILL. if you are nervous-good-you will live longer-

enjoy yourselves-just do it smart-we are all in this together. you get bad pills -POST IT...knowledge is power.

love you all

hush

[john58]

Originally posted by hush:

ok all you wonderful people out there with lots of information...there is one thing you are missing...and that may be because you havent been taking e for too many years...there is virtually no pure MDMA on the market. do not believe the dealer who sells it to you when he says *oh yeah. this shit is pure!* the last time i saw pure in abundance was '96 and coming from the UK. the chemicals used to form the compound have been so regulated that in order for a pharmacutical company to get even one component they have to submit reports for months and under go investigation for the purported purpose they require it for. how do i know this? my roomate is a chemist for one of the largest pharma co's in the us...i am not saying pure MDMA is not out there-but the chaces of getting it often are slim. the death of one of our brothers was more likely due to what ever the fuck was in his pill and that he may have been on other meds or had a phyislogical abnormality that caused his body to shut down. BE CARECAREFUL. BUY FROM WHO YOU KNOW. TAKE H A L F AND SEE HOW YOU FEEL BEFORE DROPPING THE WHOLE PILL. if you are nervous-good-you will live longer-

enjoy yourselves-just do it smart-we are all in this together. you get bad pills -POST IT...knowledge is power.

love you all

hush

This is true. "Ecstacy overdose" is an ambiguous term. Which comes back to my point that a newspaper article explaining the cause of death listed in an autopsy report must take great liberties to call it an "ecstacy" overdose. The report itself would be specific and list an MDMA OD as the cause of death, if this were the substance that resulted in the boy's death. How many reporters know or care to get the details right? Ketamine, Methyldihydroxymethamphetamine, Gamma Hydroxybuturate, it all sounds the same right? Might as well pick the headline that makes the article the most interesting.

Furthermore, if he took a bad pill, the cause of death would be listed as whatever substance made the pill bad... DXM, cyanide, whatever.

Oh, and if he died of heat exhaustion, heat exhaustion would be listed as the cause of death, not an overdose. If you jump off a building, your cause of death will be severe trauma from the impact with the ground, not jumping.

Bottom line... The black market adds an element of risk to drug use. Buyer beware. If you get pure MDMA though, OD'ing is very unlikely, but still possible if you take enough pills.

[legnd1222]

Originally posted by blueskygirl:

Bottom line; drugs don't kill people, people kill themselves by using drugs irresponsibly. I don't get all the fuss here... It's like saying that the drive-by was the gun's fault. I can't stand the way these tragedies are made to look like Twilo's fault or the Ecstasy industry's fault. If it were legal and controlled maybe these things wouldn't happen... Maybe.

Watch yer necks, peeps!

Blue skies,

Melissa

[legnd1222]

Originally posted by blueskygirl:

Bottom line; drugs don't kill people, people kill themselves by using drugs irresponsibly.

Thank you Melissa, you took the words right out of my mouth. IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!

Watch what you take, what you take it with, and who you get it from...!!!!!!

Keep the party SAFE!!

[peccatrice]

wait wait wait wiat wait!!!

No Dr here, but worked as a paramedic for 9 years so I think I can have an opinion here.

E can kill. Anyone who says its can't is kidding themselves.

Just as coke, heroine, and crack kill. The drugs effect the body which in turn can kill you. So to say that the drug doesn't kill u is STUPID. If this kid never took the E, then he wouldn't have died. Yes, I am sure it was dehydration, heat exhaustion, etc. that actually caused him to die, but it was the drug that did that to his body.

Just like heroine, and coke fuck with your heart. Your heart goes into convultions... killing you. Would you say the drug didn't kill them in that case???

If the drug didn't cause his death, then tell me..... what did??????

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Run to the bedroom, in the suitcase on the left you'll find my favorite ax.