utopian77 Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 As for death penalty I am 100% against it for a lot of reasons but here are a few:First off - no one can ever be proven 100% guilty - there will always be some possibility, no matter how small, that this person didn't do it. If you watch the news lately there were a small bunch of people on death row recently let free because dna testing proved they were innocent all along. Secondly, I don't think you could ever say that someone will have no value to society ever again. You never know, some guy in prison for life might take up studying quantum physics or something and come up with a new theory or idea that proves beneficial. One example is that one of the guys that wrote the first Websters dictionary was locked up in an insane asylum. Just my two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezdreamer Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Originally posted by back2basics:The way i look at the death penalty is it is a cheeper option to keeping people in prison for LIFE (not 25 years)..Surley for this reason alone it's wrong.If you lock them up for life, at least if a mistake is made it can be rectified.No, it's a HUGE misconception. I did the research and wrote a paper on the death penalty issue. It's way cheaper to lock them up for life... way cheaper.It's not a deterrent, several studies indicate this. It's basically an eye for an eye type of deal and the wrong eye may be plucked for the sake of revenge.The wrong person convicted and slated to fry happens more often than most care to admit. It's why one state put it into a moratorium.Do the research and you'll see what I'm talking about.Bush, that motherfucker, on the other hand, will fry as many people as possible. The last count was 135 (It think). Highest in the country and yes there were a few cases that were highly questionable whether they were guilty or not. Talk about being a murderer...------------------Dream a little dream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2basics Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Originally posted by ezdreamer: No, it's a HUGE misconception. I did the research and wrote a paper on the death penalty issue. It's way cheaper to lock them up for life... way cheaper.It's not a deterrent, several studies indicate this. It's basically an eye for an eye type of deal and the wrong eye may be plucked for the sake of revenge.The wrong person convicted and slated to fry happens more often than most care to admit. It's why one state put it into a moratorium.Do the research and you'll see what I'm talking about.Bush, that motherfucker, on the other hand, will fry as many people as possible. The last count was 135 (It think). Highest in the country and yes there were a few cases that were highly questionable whether they were guilty or not. Talk about being a murderer...Somebody else has said this to me, but surley it's crap?Look 1000000 volts and 10 years in death row is cheaper than maybe 50 years in prison (food, staff etc). I think the figures will be 'cooked' by the legal fees (because all people on death row will appeal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shannah Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Read that it might pass this morning but didn't know it had actually gone through. Great news!! And a great step for the pro-choice movement...a big thumbs up from me.-SH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloyd40 Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Originally posted by utopian77:As for death penalty I am 100% against it for a lot of reasons but here are a few:First off - no one can ever be proven 100% guilty - there will always be some possibility, no matter how small, that this person didn't do it. If you watch the news lately there were a small bunch of people on death row recently let free because dna testing proved they were innocent all along. Secondly, I don't think you could ever say that someone will have no value to society ever again. You never know, some guy in prison for life might take up studying quantum physics or something and come up with a new theory or idea that proves beneficial. One example is that one of the guys that wrote the first Websters dictionary was locked up in an insane asylum. Just my two cents...can "NEVER" be proven? you sound pretty sure of yourself. Your pretty bold to make a statment like that. So the case of colin ferguson for example, a whole train car full of commuters see's him pull out a gun and fire a birage of rounds in all directions hitting inccoent passengers trying to survive the day and make it home just to see their child(ren) and killing these individuals who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, he can "NEVER" be proven guilty? Tell that to the couple hundred people on that train who watched it unfold before their own eyes. By what divine force have you been given right to say that guilt can "never" be proven.And as for usefulness of punishee, your right, maybe he will make a contribution which augments the quality of life in the world. But how on earth can you be an advocate of abortion, yet against capital punishment? Apply your own theory to the situation at hand. Maybe that innocent child you choose to destroy could create or assist in creating cures for disease, or outlining premises by which we step closer to an understanding of ourselves. The fact is, you can never know what that life is capable of, you chose to end it before it had the chance.-Rob -------------------MIKE IS A BITCH-"And thus they give the time, that Nature meantFor peaceful sleep and meditative snores,To ceaseless din and mindless merrimentAnd waste of shoes and floors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloyd40 Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Originally posted by back2basics: Originally posted by ezdreamer: No, it's a HUGE misconception. I did the research and wrote a paper on the death penalty issue. It's way cheaper to lock them up for life... way cheaper.It's not a deterrent, several studies indicate this. It's basically an eye for an eye type of deal and the wrong eye may be plucked for the sake of revenge.The wrong person convicted and slated to fry happens more often than most care to admit. It's why one state put it into a moratorium.Do the research and you'll see what I'm talking about.Bush, that motherfucker, on the other hand, will fry as many people as possible. The last count was 135 (It think). Highest in the country and yes there were a few cases that were highly questionable whether they were guilty or not. Talk about being a murderer...Somebody else has said this to me, but surley it's crap?Look 1000000 volts and 10 years in death row is cheaper than maybe 50 years in prison (food, staff etc). I think the figures will be 'cooked' by the legal fees (because all people on death row will appeal).i agree 100%. The appeals process is a long an arduous process. It can last for years and the amount spent can easily exceed that of life imprisonment.-------------------MIKE IS A BITCH-"And thus they give the time, that Nature meantFor peaceful sleep and meditative snores,To ceaseless din and mindless merrimentAnd waste of shoes and floors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezdreamer Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Originally posted by PFloyd40: i agree 100%. The appeals process is a long an arduous process. It can last for years and the amount spent can easily exceed that of life imprisonment.Not only that, but the minute you are found guilty it goes on an automatic appeal process.------------------Dream a little dream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firegirl Posted September 28 Author Report Share Posted September 28 re: ru486/abortion...the point of this issue and this conversation is not an individual "right" or "wrong" decision. or to badger anyone who is against abortion. the reason this ruling is considered a victory is because it allows women to MAKE AN INDIVIDUAL CHOICE...it gives them OPTIONS, rather than mandating a crucial, personal, and delicate life decision. god, that would be like mandating what kind of career a person had to be in or who they had to marry. it doesn't matter if you don't favor abortion, then you don't have to have one. what matters is that if you wish do have an abortion or wish to simply be able to CONSIDER having an abortion, you can. what matters is that personal choice is not violated.re: the death penalty...I'm not going near that one with a 10ft pole.re: both...I just think anyone who is quick to raise a fist against either issue ought to take a moment and put themselves in the position of the woman who suddenly finds herself pregnant by rape at 18 or the father who's young child was brutally murdered by a serial killer. the situations are not black and white and it's easy to claim the moral high ground when you're not the one dealing with the life hardships.blah blah blahFG------------------"I have only one burning desire...let me stand next to your Fire..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-money Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 The death penalty is not a deterrent because the punishment (death) is not immediate. Unfortunately, prisons are not much of a deterrent anymore especially for those with a history of crime, but at least being imprisoned is an immediate punishment. The United States is one of few westernized countries who continue to use the death penalty (there may only be one other or maybe two others who use it), which I find ironic seeing as how we are so concerned with China's human rights violations. <<<PEACE>>>------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgbrooklyn Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 pro-life all the way Ladies & gents you need to take control over your actions. If you can do the nasty learn the proper way to do it. now everone's going to bash me about what if a person gets raped then what is she supposed to do... In that case have the baby and give it up for adoption... she/he is still half you. Maybe my actions would be different if I was faced with the reality but for now this is how I feel.I am against the Death Penalty... 100% very barbaric if you ask me. Sorry if I offended anyone but its just my belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty19 Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 i am impressed with all the points that everyone has made in regards to capital punishment. see, this proves that clubbers aren't just crackheads!but to also just throw in research that i have done on my own in regards to the death penalty-- i designed my statistical paper last year on variables that may affect the crime rate of a state-- and states that have any form of death penalty as a punishment actually increase the chances of crime (esp murder) occurring..so i agree with you ezdreamer, capital punishment doesn't teach other people a lesson; i think i could openly assume it actually makes matters worse.the pro life/choice thing is an endless battle... let's not get into that one please!------------------*kitty19**turn it around baby* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa_boy Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 I used to be a firm believer in a woman's right to choose, now having discovered that I am fertile (ah hem) I am 150% behind a woman's right to choose.......As for the pill it is soooooooo good that it is available, as the most traumatic, harrowing and scary thing that has ever happened to me in my 25 years was being with my better half when she went through an abortion ------------------..................coming soon to a dancefloor near you------------------> boa_boy@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzojournilist Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 I belive it is a good thing that the abortion pill is now available in the USas for the death penalty certain crimes deserve certain punishmentand the death penelty should be enforced for crimes such as murder ------------------ plus equals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezdreamer Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Originally posted by gonzojournilist:I belive it is a good thing that the abortion pill is now available in the USas for the death penalty certain crimes deserve certain punishmentand the death penelty should be enforced for crimes such as murder According to the prolifers you are committing murder when you use the abortion pill. Careful, you might end up in the chair yourself.------------------Dream a little dream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippintrance64 Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 sorry. i just disagree. its just an opinion.------------------A man makes his sunshine, and he makes his rain. Look at what you have, and where you are, before you say, "I've had a horrible day" Appreciate what you have, and realize how much others wish they could have that much. Live Life, and LOVE IT! --Mei know you're out there...i can feel you now. i know that you're afraid...that you're afraid of us...afraid of change..i dont know the future..i didnt come here to tell you how this is going to end. i came here to tell you how it begins. im going to hang up this phone, and im going to show these people what you dont want them to see. im going to show them the world....a world with out you....a world withough rules or controls a world without borders or boundries..... a world where anying is possible where we go from there is a choice i leave to you--NeoClubbers dont fall,they trip, and roll-Erm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyv Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Originally posted by g-money:The death penalty is not a deterrent because the punishment (death) is not immediate. Unfortunately, prisons are not much of a deterrent anymore especially for those with a history of crime, but at least being imprisoned is an immediate punishment. The United States is one of few westernized countries who continue to use the death penalty (there may only be one other or maybe two others who use it), which I find ironic seeing as how we are so concerned with China's human rights violations. <<<PEACE>>> If the death penalty is not a deterrent I would like to see Ted Bundy kill somebody.For that matter any of the killers who have been executed.My point that as long as these killers are alive the possibility for them to kill again will exist whether in prison or out. Im PRO CHOICE!------------------"Smile is an inexpensive way to improve your looks."[This message has been edited by tonyv (edited 09-29-2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bre5379 Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Regardless if you use the pill or get go to the doctor and get it done, you can still feel it. Obviously the only way you can't feel it is if they knock you out. Some doctors just give you local and you are up the whole time. It is horrible. Their are always going to be mixed emotions about this...Breann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petp Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 politics and religion should definitely NOT be on this board!!!!this is the USA, people should have the CHOICE to choose whatever they want to do. Its their decision whether or not to have an abortion...just like people have a choice to smoke, drink, go bungee jumping...etc. Without the choice, you might as well get your coat hangers ready. which is worse? coat hangers or RU486???I think its a joke that RU486 has been available in europe for over 10 years now...and we just finally get it!!! u think the lobbyists had something to do with that one?!??!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyo Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 I was thinking up my response to all of this when I realized that Rob already said it for me. 100% pro-life...and yes, I have been there, I was pregnant at 16 a mother at 17 and I thank God every day for the incredibly caring, smart, wonderful 11 year old boy I have today. About choice, you make your choice when you have unprotected sex. A child should not be punished for it's mother's indiscretions. I can't stand when people don't deal with their mistakes...especially when the sacrifical lamb is a baby. Naturally the next arguement will be, "What about rape". If anyone cares to check the numbers the number of pregnancies resulting in rape is minute.Death penalty, I can't see how you can be for abortion and against the death penalty. The taking of a life is the taking of a life. The only difference I see is that in an abortion you CAN be assured that the INNOCENT has been wrongly accused and punished. I'm sorry for going on so long but from my own experiences I have very strong opinions on this subject. I myself was adopted and I'm glad my birth mother made the choice she did! I look at my son and know he is the best arguement against abortion.I'm sorry if I've offended or made anyone feel bad. To those who may have already had an abortion, I do not want you to feel that this was an attack on you. I have many friends who did the same thing when they were scared. I still love them just as much. I'm not judging you, what's done is done, and I'm sure that you have gone through enough pain. Mine is a plea for people to be more responsible, and if you refuse, then please take the consequences on yourself not put them on an innocent.BTW, I do think people will use this as a form of birth control. ------------------A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to it's old dimensions.~*~*~Don't use time or words carelessly, neither can be retrieved.~*~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloyd40 Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Originally posted by cathyo:I was thinking up my response to all of this when I realized that Rob already said it for me. 100% pro-life...and yes, I have been there, I was pregnant at 16 a mother at 17 and I thank God every day for the incredibly caring, smart, wonderful 11 year old boy I have today. About choice, you make your choice when you have unprotected sex. A child should not be punished for it's mother's indiscretions. I can't stand when people don't deal with their mistakes...especially when the sacrifical lamb is a baby. Naturally the next arguement will be, "What about rape". If anyone cares to check the numbers the number of pregnancies resulting in rape is minute.Death penalty, I can't see how you can be for abortion and against the death penalty. The taking of a life is the taking of a life. The only difference I see is that in an abortion you CAN be assured that the INNOCENT has been wrongly accused and punished. I'm sorry for going on so long but from my own experiences I have very strong opinions on this subject. I myself was adopted and I'm glad my birth mother made the choice she did! I look at my son and know he is the best arguement against abortion.I'm sorry if I've offended or made anyone feel bad. To those who may have already had an abortion, I do not want you to feel that this was an attack on you. I have many friends who did the same thing when they were scared. I still love them just as much. I'm not judging you, what's done is done, and I'm sure that you have gone through enough pain. Mine is a plea for people to be more responsible, and if you refuse, then please take the consequences on yourself not put them on an innocent.BTW, I do think people will use this as a form of birth control. I 100% agree w/ everything you stated. Very well said and i admire you for the choice you made and struggle you endured, b/c although no disputes that a child is a gift to the world and birth is the single most amazing phenomenon occuring in this world, i'm sure at that age it most have been very difficult for you. But w/o even knowing you, i can confidently and positively say I'm sure your child has been the greatest blessing to you. Thank you for sharing your opinions and experience on the subject and enlightening me and, i'm sure,many others as well.-Rob-------------------MIKE IS A BITCH-"And thus they give the time, that Nature meantFor peaceful sleep and meditative snores,To ceaseless din and mindless merrimentAnd waste of shoes and floors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty19 Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 cathyo, i respect you for the choice you have decided to make in regards to your child. he is very lucky that he has a responsible and loving woman for a mother. and coming from parents' mouths, i could see why people can be pro-life. i think what bothers me is when fanatic pro-lifers press their opinions upon others and the public. when you hear about abortion doctors being killed, isn't that being hypocritical (on the pro-lifers part)? you don't want these fetus' to be aborted, but it's perfectly fine to MURDER a doctor? ------------------*kitty19**turn it around baby* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloyd40 Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Originally posted by kitty19:cathyo, i respect you for the choice you have decided to make in regards to your child. he is very lucky that he has a responsible and loving woman for a mother. and coming from parents' mouths, i could see why people can be pro-life. i think what bothers me is when fanatic pro-lifers press their opinions upon others and the public. when you hear about abortion doctors being killed, isn't that being hypocritical (on the pro-lifers part)? you don't want these fetus' to be aborted, but it's perfectly fine to MURDER a doctor? i agree w/ you as well kitty. its definetly wrong that those against the murder of babies will often physicallty harm or even kill those committing the act. This is simply hypocracy at its best. If pro-lifers don't agree then they should be heard and scene yes, but not through violence. Although these extremists represent only a small percentage of all pro-life advocates.-Rob-------------------MIKE IS A BITCH-"And thus they give the time, that Nature meantFor peaceful sleep and meditative snores,To ceaseless din and mindless merrimentAnd waste of shoes and floors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezdreamer Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Murder of babies??? The whole argument is based on when does life begin, at conception or not. Different views, opinions, from every scientist to your neighboorhood bartender.Until it is sorted out and a consensus can be achieved, I think murder of babies in the firt trimester is way too harsh of a language to be using.------------------Dream a little dream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nydancer Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 Breann, you're so right. The most judgemental people are people who haven't experienced anything even close to unplanned pregnancy. Anti-abortionists and their "methods" disgust me. In my opinion they should be thrown in jail from harassing people in the front of clinics. And yeah, I think that candidates should pass at least some kind of a IQ test before they can run for president ("No W, you can't ask your wife, you'll have to spell that word out yourself") ------------------~~homepage coming up!~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyo Posted September 30 Report Share Posted September 30 Rob - Thank you for the compliments and you are right, I know that I am blessed for having both of them.Kitty - I also agree with you, absolutely noting can be solved by the murder of these doctors. That is completely ignorant and hippocritical. I may side with pro life but I don't condone all of the courses of action they take. Screaming, yelling and violence never gets anyone anywhere. It's very frustrating to see that people can't discuss things in a mature manner. ------------------A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to it's old dimensions.~*~*~Don't use time or words carelessly, neither can be retrieved.~*~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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