Why nobody wants to tour in the US

[enderwiggin]

I am sick and tired of hearing how the US dance scene is not getting anywhere b/c of lack of support from the officials, such as Julianni, supposebly discouraging the club scene and all that shit.

The truth is that US is not fucking ready for any descent bands to start touring here. I thought Faithless were being stuckups for not wanting to tour here, but now I understand them.

When Creamfields (GB) finally tried to make a conert featuring Crystal Method, and Orbital in NY they had to cancel it b/c they didnt sell enough tickets. What the fuck is this. Nobody in here wants to hear music, so stop fucking bitching about how the music in GB and Europe in general is so much fucking better. Creamfields had to cencel both their concerts, in NYC , and the other coast. Fuck this shit... .Dont blame it on other people.. the truth is that WE dont want them to be here, WE dont want any DJ's to come spin in NYC.

ignore the spelling, its just that Im really pissed... WTF.. Ive been waiting for this fukcing concert for a year now, just for it to get canceled. Screw this shit

[xkingchangox]

I think our biggest problem is were not geared toward this type of entertainment.Take NY for example there is no reason why we dont have a major electronic music radio station like they do in the UK instead we have KTU .Our media is geared towards pop and if cream fields were pop everyone would have been there, in all truth you really only have a hand full of diehards out there the rest are just using the culture,music and venues for a purpose to get high.Belive me they would love to tour the US we are definately an attractive source of large revenue for them.However there is just not enough of us ,the many that do exist are all broken off into sub -segments of music and style and there is no central point from where it all starts.

[nightgroover]

I would not say that I know a lot of DJ's but I know a few. Definately I know my way around the German (House) club scene. I think there is quite a few really good underground DJ's from europe that would love to spin in NY, but they do not get any support (they won't be hired) from the US until they are famous and commercial and have totally overdrawn expectations. So I have to agree with you enderwiggin.

[Rad_Z]

Thats sooo true, US or at least NY doesnt care about just any international DJ's, most of the ppl here that complain on not being able to hear more European DJ's in NY, are the ppl that just wanna hear Sash, DIgweed, cox, PVD etc... These DJ's are already famous and overexposed that they need a hefty premium of $$$ to want to spin in NYC.

Like nightgroover said, there are prolly shit load of great EU DJ's that would just love to spin in US or NY, but most of "us" (meaning a lot of Twilo fans) dont wanna go see any new upcoming DJ's that are on the verge of becoming a famous. They just want their S&D, and PVD.

Rad_

[madrusso]

DJ Rudy Juliani is NYC's #1 dj everybody, at least for a little while longer

[back2basics-]

No your not musically 4 years behind Europe.. honest your not.

Rob no comments?

[bigpoppanils]

another problem is that most of the nation is extremely intolerant of nightclubs. in florida, the DEA and ATF have been using "crackhouse" laws to shut down nightclubs (basically if a place is found to have high amounts of drug use with the owner's knowledge and permission, it can be shut-down or something like that). i thought guliani was bad. compared to the rest of the nation, he has been pretty tame

oh that, and when most people think of dance music, they think of moby and fatboy slim (and i m sorry but moby's last album sucked!)

[nubreedfan]

You guys should be happy that the scene is still so "underground" here. New wave and electronica were never that popular in the US. We have this sick need to have idols and "stars" in this country and thats not what the scene is about. By the way, you can see Oakey this weekens for 100 bucks. Is that what you want? But you probably say he's a SELLOUT. I'd rather see an 8 hour Jimmy Van M., or DT or DH set and shake their hand when their done. Keep it real.

[cro]

It's really upsetting to see that a number of these great show's have been canceled. I was planning on going to the Mekka Tour, and the same thing happened not enough tickets sold.

Alot of the things that were said above are true, not enough people in NY are into the music, if they were, we would have an all day radio station on the dial, not a few hours per week. Working in media, I see alot of different promotions, and they are all directed to the masses and general public. Britny Spears, and the boy bands would sell more tickets..... It makes me sick.

I mean comon, take the country singer from a couple of years ago, I think Garth Brooks, people came from all over the country to see this guy. Millions of people packed Central Park!

Let's face it, we all like the underground music that comes from the UK to whereever. I guess there's a reason why it called "Underground". Take Sandstorm for example. That was a phat track when it came out, what..... almost 2 years ago. Now Z100 is playing it. Does anyone like that song anymore, I want to shoot myself when I hear it. What I am trying to say is Z100 is top 40, and it sells to the masses. We my friends are not the masses.

I have one solution. There should be a show, event that has a few less DJ's and some of that POP stuff. Now when the people get to the the area, POP on one side, and the DJ's on the other, the pop people will not want to bother, and we will have our own place. Simmilar to AREA ONE with better bathrooms and Drinks...

Now does that make sense???

[dialectics]

the trouble with NY is that we are the end-all be-all of markets. competition for airwaves, ad-space, and consumer dollars is so tight that the businesspeople controlling the purse-strings of the artists are too afraid to take any risks in this market. There is way too much at stake. So we get bland, boring shit. And this, of course, affects the people. They are so used to the bland, boring shit that its all they know and all they want.

While amsterdam can have a techno festival with 100,000 people and 200 djs (and have RAIN be the only problem), we are stuck with Mekka and Creamfields getting cancelled. Area:one was so obscenely commercial that Carl Cox was relegated to a tent

Actually, I think Cream made a big mistake partnering with Clear Channel. While they have the largest market share in terms of american pop radio, they are completely ethical and engage in dubious business practices.

Please see the following article:

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2001/04/30/clear_channel/index.html

Rob

[silente]

Whoa, rob! Long time no see! Where have you been??

[cro]

I forgot to mention one other huge factor. Creamfields falls on Labor Day weekend. Now this is great for me, but not enough for others, vacation, summer shares and many other factors.

I heard tons of reasons why people, if it were not for that weekend would have def been there. I guess not diehard enough....

[back2basics-]

Yeh I definitely think the radio issue is holding back the scene.

People only really have the option of going to clubs or going record shopping to listen to electronica. The thing is most people don't remember the songs after a night out, and the albums / singles don't get any sort of billing at HMV or Virgin without sales. Sales don't come from no where and without airplay it's hard to promote them effectively.

In the UK before the majors (BBC Radio, Kiss FM and Galaxy) started up we had a great pirate radio network. But from what I am told the big radio companies come down really hard on pirate radio over here, funding police bust's etc.

So it's a vicious circle, and buying adverts is one of the only way's to plug yourself and MTV is just about the only place to do that. It's hard to see a way out, and this is defiantly why it's so hard to 'break America' the infrastructure just isn't there yet.

[PinkFloyd40]

its just more underground in the states.. bottomline..

promotions are handled much differently.. clubs here are still the cool thing to do.. though places like exit are ruining that.. you dont' see huge ads in newspapers or magazines, although that is starting to slowly emerge..

as far as creamfileds go.. i think the promotions for that were awful.. not one of my friends had even heard about it unless i told them or they had read it on the board or something..

also the price.. people here are not ready to spend that kind of mone on listening to dj's.. they just dotn' understand it yet...

[silente]

You guys are right - there is an obvious economic component to the problem that can't be ignored. No one is going to want to tour here if they can't make money, and no one will release singles or albums if there's not a reliable market reachable by effective advertising. But I think the heart of the problem lies even deeper, in a more fundamental prejudice against the whole scene. The music is (in the minds of the public, at the very least) attached to an extreme sensualism - all night raves, pounding beats, and especially ecstasy. And sensualism is something Americans have always been afraid of. New York still has laws prohibiting dancing without about a hundred million permits. We made a bigger deal about our last president getting a bj than we did about him bombing Colombia or expanding trade with China. The electronic scene has that kind of forbidden fruit aura about it, as if it's so taboo that it can't really be talked about in proper mainstream society. And until the scene can break free from that taboo, it'll never be able to *reliably* sell out events like Creamfields or Mekka.

My .02. :grin:

[PinkFloyd40]

Originally posted by silente

You guys are right - there is an obvious economic component to the problem that can't be ignored. No one is going to want to tour here if they can't make money, and no one will release singles or albums if there's not a reliable market reachable by effective advertising. But I think the heart of the problem lies even deeper, in a more fundamental prejudice against the whole scene. The music is (in the minds of the public, at the very least) attached to an extreme sensualism - all night raves, pounding beats, and especially ecstasy. And sensualism is something Americans have always been afraid of. New York still has laws prohibiting dancing without about a hundred million permits. We made a bigger deal about our last president getting a bj than we did about him bombing Colombia or expanding trade with China. The electronic scene has that kind of forbidden fruit aura about it, as if it's so taboo that it can't really be talked about in proper mainstream society. And until the scene can break free from that taboo, it'll never be able to *reliably* sell out events like Creamfields or Mekka.

My .02. :grin:

honestly, i think i'd rather it stay taboo..

i can do w/o the huge events.. gimme 300 hardcore peeps in an abandoned warehouse, or loft and i'll take it any day over a huge event where the dj's only play an hour or 2 each anyway.. my whole hang up w/ raves is the fact that theres a thousand dj's each spinning these short little sets which make the whole nite choppy.. so i prefer things the way they are now.. for the true fans.. once it goes mainstream, you gonna get a large portion of people who aren't real fans, and are just there b/c its popular..

*cough*

pop in the US

*cough*

[cro]

I agree with you 40 .

But it would be nice to have an all day out door activity.

I guess If we can't see it here, let's go to Europe and see it there. No other choice now right?

[PinkFloyd40]

Originally posted by cro

I agree with you 40 .

But it would be nice to have an all day out door activity.

I guess If we can't see it here, let's go to Europe and see it there. No other choice now right?

yea, it would be nice to have.. there are still big outdoor raves and such that do get bigtime lineups.. maybe not creamfields caliber, but the ticket also won't cost $75, or $100

[silente]

I totally agree, pfloyd - I like the scene underground, kept with the people who love it for the right reasons. But the question here is why we can't have huge names at huge tours, and the two things go hand in hand, you know?

[cro]

Well then let me know when these come around.

I love these outdoor gigs, but haven't found any in quite awile. Most of these Raves I here about are indoors, or after after after hours stating at 10-11 when alot of the people are already cracked out.... maybe you can enlighten me.

Dan

[PinkFloyd40]

Originally posted by silente

I totally agree, pfloyd - I like the scene underground, kept with the people who love it for the right reasons. But the question here is why we can't have huge names at huge tours, and the two things go hand in hand, you know?

40,000 people is quite a large number.. to get that many people at one event obviously requires huge marketing..

this becomes a huge business.. its required to get something like this off the ground.. the financial backing is imperative.. that makes it impossible to have one of these events, yet still retain is purity.. when business becomes involved in order to back it, then its a matter of how much profit can be made.. so as many people as can be reached, are..

and the same goes everywhere.. w/ as much as the UK has done for the scene, dont' think for a second that creamfields isn't about making a tremendous profit.. the bottomline is, they've done a brilliant job turning the underground into the equivalent of US pop, and are just getting bigger and bigger, ergo making more and more money...

[xkingchangox]

Maybe CREAMFIELDS failed to realize that they were not going to get going here in the states on name only.Perhaps they should have enlisted the help of all rave promoters after all some of their events pack in 3000-4000 people sometimes and they for years have an established network of grass root promos.I mean they booked feelgood originally out of FEVER in baltimore the only weekly rave for years and later BUZZ DC.I might be wrong but I didnt see anyone else except on the internet and heard a spot or two during the howard stern show on k-rock ,talk about wrong market.

[PinkFloyd40]

Originally posted by xkingchangox

Maybe CREAMFIELDS failed to realize that they were not going to get going here in the states on name only.Perhaps they should have enlisted the help of all rave promoters after all some of their events pack in 3000-4000 people sometimes and they for years have an established network of grass root promos.I mean they booked feelgood originally out of FEVER in baltimore the only weekly rave for years and later BUZZ DC.I might be wrong but I didnt see anyone else except on the internet and heard a spot or two during the howard stern show on k-rock ,talk about wrong market.

couldtn' agree w/ you more..

the name just doesnt' cut it here, and when i first heard about it, i assumed they would in fact be going to caffeine etc. to help w/ the promotions..

big mistake on their part not to get that kind of local help

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by PFloyd40

couldtn' agree w/ you more..

the name just doesnt' cut it here, and when i first heard about it, i assumed they would in fact be going to caffeine etc. to help w/ the promotions..

big mistake on their part not to get that kind of local help

It all goes back to the point of no infrastructure. No radio, no Mixmag (or like urb they have small circulations). It's true i would think advertising in something like urb would have helped Creamfields.

BUT at the end of the day Crystal Method has a recognised name, all the artists hav the line-up totally speaks for it's self.

WHo had herd of Area one? But they still pack in 25,000.

[dialectics]

lets do some math here, shall we?

dance valley in amsterdam:

100,000 tickets @ USD$40 = 4 million dollars

ultra 3 in miami:

30,000 tickets @ USD$60 = 1.8 million dollars

amnesia in ibiza:

9,000 heads @ USD$25, 7 nights a week = 1.5 million dollars a week

Let's not even TALK about what they make at the bar, or on water. when you get into those figures, there will obviously have to be a big production. but i believe that:

1) you can have a production of that caliber and still remain "underground", even if only in the innovative sound coming through the speakers

2) corporate involvement can be tastefully done.

On the first point, dance valley is the first thing which comes to mind. Granted, in the past two years, there have been sets by Tiesto and Oakenfold, there were 15 stages, each devoted to a different style of music. Sure in the garage tent you had artful dodger closing, but you also had 12 hours of sets by local dutch djs and others from around the world. same goes for jp in the hardhouse tent.

On the second point, ultra in miami exemplifies this one. At Ultra, there were reps from Big Red giving out free gum, or Coke had two truck loads of fruitopia to give during pvd's set. Local merch people had as much room as the corporate bigwigs, and there wasn't anything in-your-face. At Dance valley, logitech (the mouse people) set up a tent where you could listen to dutch gabber (hardcore), and they had e-mail stations where you could send e-mail videos/pics to the jealous people at home. on a local level, sony had set up playstation 2's where you could try out all the games and stuff. obviously, they know their market

one example where it was NOT tastefully done was area:one. the marketing was pervasive, invasive and utterly annoying. marketing people invaded your space and approached you even when it was clear you were busy doing something else. They even went so far as to have the ford logo on the vid screens. At area:1 i felt more like a target market then a partygoer.

There will always be an underground component to the techno/electronic music world. I personally believe that the underground is where the innovation, the spirit, the vibe and the direction will always come from. Just like there are rock concerts at stadiums with 100,000 capacity and there are sweedish death metal bands at the batcave with 100 capacity. The beauty of techno is that anyone with the drive and a 303 can create new music. Anyone with enough loot to buy a pair of turntables and a mixer can become a dj with the time and patience and practice it takes. Techno music is pervasive in our lives - we work to it, dance to it, fuck to it, drive to it, chill to it - it is our proverbial soundtrack. there is an infinite potential out there to create music by surfing the sine waves. The first time i walked into a goth bar i felt rediculously out of place - none of the people would talk to me because i wasn't "goth enough". How many times have you hugged someone simply because it was their first party?

I had a point to this but i forgot what it was. dammit. i have to go back to work.

peaz,

rob