I just want to say about the US position...

[sassa]

It is a disgrace to the American people and a moralistic and humanistic downfall for human beings everywhere that there exists a government that can so freely and without regard to human life kill innocent civilians who have been subjected to the cruelty of the Taliban.If the US government is claiming to "smoke out" the terrorists as our dear president had so eloquently put it,then why are they bombing civilians??? And why is nothing being done to stop them?IS there anyone who can stop this?The only fault these people have is that they all share the misfortune of living under such terrible conditions.I'm sure they also hate the Taliban,yet they are also dying for the Taliban's faults.I can understand the American perspective of this,the anger,sorrow,and hurt everyone felt when the attacks occured,but we are wrongly blaming a whole nation for the evil doings of one man,Osama Bin Laden, who is not even Afghani in the first place. It is him we should be concerned with finding and dealing with,not the starving and despairing people of Afghanistan.This is something we all need to realize as human beings.We cannot continue to kill each other.We must strive to make peace.We must try to create a better world for the future.

[mfiorellino]

hey genius I think you're a little misguided

First of all the U.S. Army isn't going after civilians in Afghanistan. The civilians there didn't bomb us and most of them are just poor starving people and we're sending them food something you forgot to state in your tirade against America.

Our army is going after the Taliban who has given shelter to Osama Bin Laden. I hear people saying that we should talk and negotiate with the Taliban. Fuck that. They're nothing but savages that can not be reasoned with.

If you don't like it here in America maybe you should move to Afghanistan and see how well your thoughts are received there.

U.S.A. #1

[sonicinfusion]

sassa i totally understand .. but there is been no WAR in the world where civilians have not been killed .. this is a part of a WAR .. If taliban cared about the afghan ppl they would have handed over osama bin ladin .....

AND most of the afghans have fled to pakistan cause of the bombing ....

This is a part of the war and we have to deal with it ...

[chris817]

The taliban is putting army supplies in civilian areas, knowing full well that's what we are looking to bomb, so if anyone's at fault it't the taliban.. Why are they doing this, b/c they see america's dropping food and supplies to the people of afghanstian, and want them to turn against america.

[laraver]

Sassa - The Syrian had the right idea when it comes to dealing with terrorists. I forget the name of the town, but one town in Syria had a major uprising of Islamic Fundamentalists. The Syrians sent in the army and killed about 35,000 people. (They used the "Kill'Em All, Let God Sort Them Out" method)

When they were done (The Syrian Army) bulldozed the entire town. No structure was left standing, nothing larger than a pebble remained to show that a town had once stood there.

Since that time there have been no more acts of terror against the Syrian government, nor any flowering of Islamic Fundementalist seeds. Incredibly brutal and sad, but ultimately effective in preventing the government from being destabilized.

I think it is a shame that that had to be done. It makes me very sad. But if a people or group espouse a belief system that dictates that they must exterminate another way of life, that they have no tolerance for other cultures and their rights, then it becomes them or me. I am tolerant of other people, religions, ethinicities, etc. When other people create a situation where it is them or me, it's always going to be me. I absolutely believe in the right of people to follow their own beliefs, but not to force those beliefs on others.

The Islamic Fundamentalists wish to turn the clock back to 700AD, when they were the cultural center of the world. It is not going to happen. No music, no TV, no kite flying how ludicrous is that? Women made property. These are not the marks of an enlightened civilization.

[mfiorellino]

The name of the town in Syria you're referring to was Hama. And you're right, since then there's been no more Islamic uprisings in there.

[vision]

dood not for nuthin but those same civilians coulda stopped our peeps from goin over there before all this shit happened...i'm not sayin to bomb them because i think there is no greater miracle than life...still, any one of those afgani coulda made a call to turn and ratted him out and be livin the phat life w/that 5 mil

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

It is a disgrace to the American people and a moralistic and humanistic downfall for human beings everywhere that there exists a government that can so freely and without regard to human life kill innocent civilians who have been subjected to the cruelty of the Taliban.If the US government is claiming to "smoke out" the terrorists as our dear president had so eloquently put it,then why are they bombing civilians??? And why is nothing being done to stop them?IS there anyone who can stop this?The only fault these people have is that they all share the misfortune of living under such terrible conditions.I'm sure they also hate the Taliban,yet they are also dying for the Taliban's faults.I can understand the American perspective of this,the anger,sorrow,and hurt everyone felt when the attacks occured,but we are wrongly blaming a whole nation for the evil doings of one man,Osama Bin Laden, who is not even Afghani in the first place. It is him we should be concerned with finding and dealing with,not the starving and despairing people of Afghanistan.This is something we all need to realize as human beings.We cannot continue to kill each other.We must strive to make peace.We must try to create a better world for the future.

I have not posted in a while, but this work of idiosy has forced me from the sidelines......

It is rather obvious your head has been completely been embedded in your crusty ass, because there can be no other explanation for your demonstration for utter stupidity.

Your statements are a disgrace, and are a dishonor to the INNOCENT AMERICAN people who have been killed by Bin Laden and his thugs.

An act of war has been committed on the US, and we must respond in kind. There is no gray area here. Unfortuntaley there will be civilian casualties to the Afghani people, but quite frankly, would you rather put American service people at risk by restricting what our military must do? Not me.

You and your "blame America first" attitude is exactly what Bin Laden preys on, and his hoping for- that Americans do not have the belly for a fight. Iy plays right into his pysche that led to these attacks- that American place too high a value on human life, and therefore are vulnerable.

Your thinking is both dangerous and disgaceful. Do this country a favor, and stick you and your "blame America" head back up your ass.

What makes this country great is that even morons like yourself can voice their opinion- and that is your right. But a line can still be crossed- and jerkoffs like you don't realize that.

[gnice]

This is the reason people who have that same opinion as you will never be in the position of power for this country. If that were to happen we would be the third world country. Other goverments would walk all over us. You have to know when to draw the line and put your foot down. With an attitude like that, we would be a laughing stock. We have given them too much aid and too many chances. I support our goverments decisions to the fullest.

[cintron]

I'm simple.

I support what we're doing.

We're not perfect.

Bombs have a blast radius.

Some of them miss their targets.

If you want to criticize the US for being brutal when we're at war with insurgent groups, then criticize the insurgent groups for killing thousands of us when we had no conflict with them (until now)...

remember Sept 11th was NOT the only terror act to occur.

the USS cole, Khobar towers, the embassys in africa, etc. there are many more dead from terrorists.

What we do to go after them i think is morally right, because they're going to kill us whether we go after them or not. That's already been proven.

mind you i'm really understating my true feelings for everything that's going on.

[sassa]

Originally posted by homersimpson

hey genius I think you're a little misguided

First of all the U.S. Army isn't going after civilians in Afghanistan. The civilians there didn't bomb us and most of them are just poor starving people and we're sending them food something you forgot to state in your tirade against America.

Our army is going after the Taliban who has given shelter to Osama Bin Laden. I hear people saying that we should talk and negotiate with the Taliban. Fuck that. They're nothing but savages that can not be reasoned with.

If you don't like it here in America maybe you should move to Afghanistan and see how well your thoughts are received there.

U.S.A. #1

You know what Homer,I can sink down to your level and tell you to shut the fuck up, but I won't. My "tirade", as you call it, is not misguided.First of all, I don't think you should believe everything that is said in the media. And when I talk about politics, I pretty much know what I'm talking about, politics being my major and in every single thing I deal with every day. When you say the US is sending food...how good are the chances that this food is actually reaching civilians and people who need it the most?Not good.

Are the Taliban savages because they refuse to hand over Bin Laden or because they have a different way of life?Answer this question, genius.What makes you despise them so much?I am not justifying their actions in the least,I would just like to know where you stand on this,since you have obviously stated what you think above.

P.S. Ignorant comments won't make you look smarter, trust me.

[sassa]

Your turn, Igloo...I actually liked your post until you started talking shit about me personally.

You're right though. I think in dangerous terms. But what are they dangerous to- a capitalistic, money grubbing society who has lost touch with what's really important in life? I can sit here and talk shit about the US for hours. I can point out to you and everyone else the pros and cons of what the US did. Don't get me wrong, I am not justifying the Taliban. Not at all.And this is what I was trying to explain in my post.My only reason for anger right now is that these poor people have to die! That's it! Can we stop with the bullshit about everything else...because I'd rather not get into it and I'll probably get shit from everyone in here anyways.

A tip: If you want to be taken seriously, stop with the personal attacks,they won't work.

[sassa]

Originally posted by laraver

Sassa - The Syrian had the right idea when it comes to dealing with terrorists. I forget the name of the town, but one town in Syria had a major uprising of Islamic Fundamentalists. The Syrians sent in the army and killed about 35,000 people. (They used the "Kill'Em All, Let God Sort Them Out" method)

When they were done (The Syrian Army) bulldozed the entire town. No structure was left standing, nothing larger than a pebble remained to show that a town had once stood there.

Since that time there have been no more acts of terror against the Syrian government, nor any flowering of Islamic Fundementalist seeds. Incredibly brutal and sad, but ultimately effective in preventing the government from being destabilized.

I think it is a shame that that had to be done. It makes me very sad. But if a people or group espouse a belief system that dictates that they must exterminate another way of life, that they have no tolerance for other cultures and their rights, then it becomes them or me. I am tolerant of other people, religions, ethinicities, etc. When other people create a situation where it is them or me, it's always going to be me. I absolutely believe in the right of people to follow their own beliefs, but not to force those beliefs on others.

The Islamic Fundamentalists wish to turn the clock back to 700AD, when they were the cultural center of the world. It is not going to happen. No music, no TV, no kite flying how ludicrous is that? Women made property. These are not the marks of an enlightened civilization.

Just want to clarify something you wrote. Women were never considered property in Islam. And I think what a lot of people tend to do is mistake both the Arab and Islamic culture to be one.They aren't. If some Arab bastard thinks his wife is a piece of property, that has nothing to do with religion. Women are respected even more than men.

[sassa]

oops ...

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

Your turn, Igloo...I actually liked your post until you started talking shit about me personally.

You're right though. I think in dangerous terms. But what are they dangerous to- a capitalistic, money grubbing society who has lost touch with what's really important in life? I can sit here and talk shit about the US for hours. I can point out to you and everyone else the pros and cons of what the US did. Don't get me wrong, I am not justifying the Taliban. Not at all.And this is what I was trying to explain in my post.My only reason for anger right now is that these poor people have to die! That's it! Can we stop with the bullshit about everything else...because I'd rather not get into it and I'll probably get shit from everyone in here anyways.

A tip: If you want to be taken seriously, stop with the personal attacks,they won't work.

How is this for a personal attack: you are a complete asshole.

Your statement " I can point out the pros and cons of what the US did"

ARe you kidding me?......What did the US do?...you are a joke. I am so taken back by your comments that I am not sure what to say...

You are so ridiculously misguided I am not sure how to respond to your moronic hippie-bullshit

If you think this country and what we do is so wrong- why do you live here?

To enjoy the freedoms of this country?--the very ones that you abuse to knock this country during a time when those very freedoms are being attacked?

You are a posion who both uses and hides behind the freedom of speech. I hope to God you have no influence in any way over children or students.

[laraver]

Originally posted by sassa

Just want to clarify something you wrote. Women were never considered property in Islam. And I think what a lot of people tend to do is mistake both the Arab and Islamic culture to be one.They aren't. If some Arab bastard thinks his wife is a piece of property, that has nothing to do with religion. Women are respected even more than men.

Their actions speak to the contrary. Women in under the Taliban can be killed, executed, in public for the smallest infractions of Islamic law as interpreted by the Taliban. (ie educating other women, leaving their homes without a male relative, failing to be covered from head to toe). Afghan boys and men fill stadiums to watch these executions by the Taliban.

These are the actions of a barbaric and corrupt society. Killing their mothers and daughters because they want to be more than domestic slaves.

We, the US, have tried reasoning with these people. Other muslims have shown us the way to deal disease that is the Taliban version of of Islamic Funamentalism. It is time for the Hama Solution.

[Rad_Z]

HAHA, this is actually sad, but it amuses me how some ppl take their stance so strongly as to result to personal attacks (hint: igloo).

Igloo telling sassa:

I hope to God you have no influence in any way over children or students.

Actually, i really wouldn't want to see you in power.

Opinion like sassa are actually a positive thing for this country, bringing balance to politics. If it wasnt for em, US might turn into a "bomb 'em all and aks questions later" type of country. Meaning trying to surpress everything that is different from america.

Anyways, as i see it, igloo's perspective is seen as the right one by majority of ppl in USA and UK. But this is only one moment in history and like you know opinions and perspectives change as time continues to pass by.

Rad_

[roadrunner]

I think a reasonable lesson we can take from this is that people HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR THE ACTIONS OF THEIR GOVERNMENT.

Or else take a stand in opposition to it. There are Afghanis opposing their government . They're the Northern Alliance. We're not bombing them.

Conversely, the Sept. 11 bombing was a reaction to OUR government's foreign policy. If you oppose that, be active in trying to change it. If you don't care and you'd rather sit back and get high (my personal response, and probably more than a few Afghanis), then you're taking a chance that someone might come knockin'. Fuck it, I'd take that chance.

[Promota531]

ok guys eveyone just calm down. this is a very controversial topic and most likely neither of you will ever see eye to eye on it. you both should just listen to eachother and stop insulting eachother or just meet up and smoke a bowl, then you guys will be friends

[sassa]

Originally posted by igloo

How is this for a personal attack: you are a complete asshole.

Your statement " I can point out the pros and cons of what the US did"

ARe you kidding me?......What did the US do?...you are a joke. I am so taken back by your comments that I am not sure what to say...

You are so ridiculously misguided I am not sure how to respond to your moronic hippie-bullshit

If you think this country and what we do is so wrong- why do you live here?

To enjoy the freedoms of this country?--the very ones that you abuse to knock this country during a time when those very freedoms are being attacked?

You are a posion who both uses and hides behind the freedom of speech. I hope to God you have no influence in any way over children or students.

No, sir, YOU are the asshole because I have tried to restrain myself and refrained from calling you what I think you are. If you weren't so ignorant and so blinded by what the masses think,you'd realize that the US government does a lot of shit that its people aren't aware of.If you don't have a clear perception of international politics, you will not understand what I mean. Are you really appalled?Good,it's time you woke up from that bubble you lived in...we've done just as much shit to the world as it is doing to us and that is a fact neither you or anyone else can deny. I remain.

[sassa]

Originally posted by laraver

Their actions speak to the contrary. Women in under the Taliban can be killed, executed, in public for the smallest infractions of Islamic law as interpreted by the Taliban. (ie educating other women, leaving their homes without a male relative, failing to be covered from head to toe). Afghan boys and men fill stadiums to watch these executions by the Taliban.

These are the actions of a barbaric and corrupt society. Killing their mothers and daughters because they want to be more than domestic slaves.

We, the US, have tried reasoning with these people. Other muslims have shown us the way to deal disease that is the Taliban version of of Islamic Funamentalism. It is time for the Hama Solution.

That is the Taliban.That is not other Muslim countries. Granted, it is wrong to generalize and say all of them are like that. Women in Islam are allowed to marry whom they wish, can own propety,can keep their last names after they marry, and can be active in high positions. The media unfortunately in the West brainwashes the masses and leads them to believe everyone in the Middle East drinks from wells and rides camels to school. It is not like that at all.

The Taliban is fucked up. It is!I'm not saying it isn't ,and I never did.But some people in here have twisted my words to change them into something else. I'm not anti-American, but I hate the current administration.I think Bush is going to seriously fuck up this country for the worse. By the end of his term, this country will be in bad shape, economically and politically...already we looks like fools to the world..I don't remember which conference this was, but back a few months ago Bush was in Spain,addressing environmental issues with the Spanish Prime Minister,and it was utterly EMBARESSING the way he couldn't answer the questions that were given to him,and when journalists cornered him with the McVeigh execution (which the European Union has banned and considers to be undemocratic),he only rambled some dumb shit and apprently hoped that will satisfy them. It didn't. I can go on and on...but what annoys me right now is not this issue, but in the manner some people have attacked me about it. I will continue to voice my opinions as I have always done,and I would appreciate it if someone has a different side to it than I,to at least voice it in a mature manner,not calling me all these names. You're not proving anything by calling me an asshole,you're only showing your own ignorance. And now I feel bad for retaliating and sinking down to your level. Grow up. And I do wish there was more mature people in here.

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

No, sir, YOU are the asshole because I have tried to restrain myself and refrained from calling you what I think you are. If you weren't so ignorant and so blinded by what the masses think,you'd realize that the US government does a lot of shit that its people aren't aware of.If you don't have a clear perception of international politics, you will not understand what I mean. Are you really appalled?Good,it's time you woke up from that bubble you lived in...we've done just as much shit to the world as it is doing to us and that is a fact neither you or anyone else can deny. I remain.

You are a repulsive human being - I take that back because human is too good for you...

You are the ignorant one who obviously has seen too many Woodstock documentaries.....

This country has done more good around the world that far outweighs mistakes than have been made....

And to even compare what was done to the US to what we have done is one of the most baseless, cold, cock-sucking statements I have ever heard....

You are a disgrace as a person and a US citizen, and dishonor the memories of the innocent Americans who have died...

Don;t even bother responding because nothing you say can defend your statements...you are a true piece of shit and I will not waste another second of my time with such a low life as your self...

Leave the country

[laraver]

Sassa - If you have not figured it out the reason you are being attacked personally is that your position seems to be in support of people who wish to bring down the USofA.

You are here, presumably of Middle Eastern descent. You have the freedom to say what you want, how you want on this board.

If you were living in the world that the Islamic Fundmenalists wish to create you would need to worry about them finding out who you are and executing you because you disagree with them.

It has become obvious to the US and to the world that this seed of Islamic Fundamentalism has grown into a poisonous vine that has wrapped itself around the world and threatens the existence of stable nations everywhere. It cannot be permitted to spread. It is evil, without any qualififcation it is evil.

Innocent Afghans will die, innocent Americans have died, soldiers on both sides will die. That is profound and sad, not to be made light of.

The Afghans had a choice. Refuse to be a part of the problem, do not sponsor terrorists, do not let terrorists train in your country, do not let terrorists use your country as a base from which they plan and launch attacks. The Taliban are Afghanis. They had a choice to do what is good for the majority of people in the country. If that means turning over Osama and his pack of jackals, then so be it.

I am not attacking you personally, but you are wrong in your defense of these people. The attacks on 09/11 showed that we cannot tolerate the existence of such groups. Cannot tolerate their existence. That means that this brand of Islam, this Fundementalism espoused by the Taliban and their idealogical allies cannot be permitted to grow or spread further. It must be stamped out finally and utterly. It is to great a threat to the stability of the global community.

Are things in many countries in the Middle East difficult for many people, yes. But in places like sub-saharan Africa and India, and areas in South and Central America they are equally diificult. I don't see those peole starting major terror organizarions and killing thousands of innocent people.

The Fundamentalists have shown through their actions and words that the only language they understand in the discourse of world affairs is the language of force. As they have sown, now shall they reap. Other Muslims have shown us that the only way to deal with these people, the only time they will stop their activities to destroy civilized nation, is when the response to their provocations is so brutal, so final, so complete that it borders on genocide. That was the response at Hama.

Islamic Fundamentalists have created this situation, their muslin bretheren have shown us the only response that will stop these people. The answer is clear, the results unfortunate and sad.

I'm afraid the Hama Solution is the only effective answer to the provocation of Osama bin Laden, Al-Queda, and their idealogical allies.

[mfiorellino]

Well I guess it's time for my rebuttal.

Mr. Sassa you asked my why I called the Taliban a bunch of savages. Here are my reasons.

1) They are giving shelter to Osama Bin Laden, a cold blooded terrorist who's set up training camps in Afghanistan to spread terror. If Osama is such a swell guy then why is constanly praising the destruction of the Twin Towers, the U.S.S. Cole and the embassies in Africa. Osama's so bad his own Saudi Arabia stripped him of his cititzenship.

2) The Taliban weren't voted into power. They pretty much blasted their way into power by intimidation and slaughtering many innocent people. If the Taliban is as righteous as they claim to be when why don't they have an election and see how much the people love them.

3) The way they arrested those Christian aid workers which by the way are still being held over there. What ever happened to freedom of religion. If an Afghan wants to convert to Christianity what's the big freaking deal? People in the Western World have the freedom to worship how they choose, why can't they? By the way the Taliban isn't the only country guilty of this. Freedom of religion is unheard of in Saudi Arabia and in Sudan. The Taliban's disregard of human rights is disgusting.

4) Women are forbidden to work, go to school or leave their homes unless shrouded in a burqa. By keeping half of your population in bondage, those people will never get far in life.

5) Public executions, amputations, no music, no TV, no form of any entertainment, etc. The list goes on and on.

These actions are not the behavior of a civilized government. Therefore in my opinion they are brutal savages. They're so bad that the only government that recognizes them is Pakistan. Not even Saudi Arabia who's not that far off in their own brutality have relations with them. The Taliban could have avoided lots of problems by just handing over Osama but they decided not to. Now they're going to pay the consequences. Unfortunately some innocent lives will be wasted but I see no other option for America. I can't see how negotiating with the Taliban will get us anywhere.

When Hitler was starting out, Neville Chamberlain who was the British prime minister decided to negotiate with Hitler instead of bombing them and look what happened. It wasn't until Winston Churchill came into power then the people started fighting back against the Nazis. People who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.

God bless Amerca

on a lighter note when the hell do Sasha & Digweed tickets go on sale???

[igloo]

Originally posted by laraver

Sassa - If you have not figured it out the reason you are being attacked personally is that your position seems to be in support of people who wish to bring down the USofA.

You are here, presumably of Middle Eastern descent. You have the freedom to say what you want, how you want on this board.

If you were living in the world that the Islamic Fundmenalists wish to create you would need to worry about them finding out who you are and executing you because you disagree with them.

It has become obvious to the US and to the world that this seed of Islamic Fundamentalism has grown into a poisonous vine that has wrapped itself around the world and threatens the existence of stable nations everywhere. It cannot be permitted to spread. It is evil, without any qualififcation it is evil.

Innocent Afghans will die, innocent Americans have died, soldiers on both sides will die. That is profound and sad, not to be made light of.

The Afghans had a choice. Refuse to be a part of the problem, do not sponsor terrorists, do not let terrorists train in your country, do not let terrorists use your country as a base from which they plan and launch attacks. The Taliban are Afghanis. They had a choice to do what is good for the majority of people in the country. If that means turning over Osama and his pack of jackals, then so be it.

I am not attacking you personally, but you are wrong in your defense of these people. The attacks on 09/11 showed that we cannot tolerate the existence of such groups. Cannot tolerate their existence. That means that this brand of Islam, this Fundementalism espoused by the Taliban and their idealogical allies cannot be permitted to grow or spread further. It must be stamped out finally and utterly. It is to great a threat to the stability of the global community.

Are things in many countries in the Middle East difficult for many people, yes. But in places like sub-saharan Africa and India, and areas in South and Central America they are equally diificult. I don't see those peole starting major terror organizarions and killing thousands of innocent people.

The Fundamentalists have shown through their actions and words that the only language they understand in the discourse of world affairs is the language of force. As they have sown, now shall they reap. Other Muslims have shown us that the only way to deal with these people, the only time they will stop their activities to destroy civilized nation, is when the response to their provocations is so brutal, so final, so complete that it borders on genocide. That was the response at Hama.

Islamic Fundamentalists have created this situation, their muslin bretheren have shown us the only response that will stop these people. The answer is clear, the results unfortunate and sad.

I'm afraid the Hama Solution is the only effective answer to the provocation of Osama bin Laden, Al-Queda, and their idealogical allies.

Well said!!!....I wish I could have responded with less emotion my self- but I simply couldn't