A Minute of Silence

[nycmuzik]

Originally posted by massad

actually i remember sassa saying that's she's an arab in some post before so ig uess she does know what it is like in iraq :D that's why her ass came to this country.....

Well in that case, thanks for proving me right.

[karch]

I think that was a good post by Sassa in the beginning. Again, you got to look at point of views. Were all americans, it's natural to look at the point of view of our side. But you see each and everyone of those acts violence against innocent people that the United States has committed. Look at it through a person's eyes that is living in that country. That there there family and freinds got murdered. That atomic bomb... over 100,000 INNOCENT people died, how would you feel if a country did that to us. How would you feel if you were going on in your normal daily routine and then an atomic bomb hit your town or a neighboring down which killed your friends and family members. How is that at all justified. Any of those acts of violence that USA has committed that Sassa wrote, none of those are at all justified. Just like that WTC attack wasn't justified. I think the USA has done a lot worse shit to others then what has been done to us.

PS. I love this country, I was born here, raised here. If it wasn't for all the liberties I've been allowed in this country, we wouldn't be able to have this discussion. I think the more people question something, better solutions come out of it.

[cintron]

Let's have one more moment of silence,

for all the armchair generals, the politically minded kids, the whiners, the protesters and draft-dodgers, and all the people who would and have put themselves on an alabaster pedestal and damned the efforts of those Americans who, seeing their call to serve their country, gave their lives to preserve our ability to sit around during the day and criticize their efforts.

Let's have a moment of silence for those who went before us, for those who served America and went out to try and spread what we are blessed to have to other parts of this world.

We criticize so much, but name another nation in this world who has done as much as we have done to HELP other nations - who's given their money and time and sent relief workers, food, medical supplies and manpower to countries in need. Everyone is so quick to point to our faults, but few realize just how much we have done to help others.

You can't be a leader in this world unless you have a velvet fist.

Sometimes, compassion and grace is called for.

Sometimes, raw determination and brute force is called for.

The only nations who will be leaders in this world are those who recognize what action is called for.

I really wish more people would understand that, instead of coming down hard on the US. There's an old saying that goes "Always treat the enemy as the enemy because he will invariably treat you that way."

Not everything's hunky-dory in this world of ours...

[nycmuzik]

Originally posted by sassa

While we're at it, let's have 13 minutes of silence for the 130,000 Iraqi civilians killed in 1991 by order of President Bush Sr. Take another moment to remember how Americans celebrated and cheered in the streets.

Well then lets not forget the "Anfal" campaign in the late 1980's against the Iraqi Kurds, including the use of poison gas on cities. In one of the worst single mass killings in recent history, Iraq dropped chemical weapons on Halabja in 1988, in which as many as 5,000 people --mostly civilians -- were killed.This includes the destruction of over 3,000 villages. The Iraqi government's campaign of forced deportations of Kurdish and Turkomen families to southern Iraq has created approximately 900,000 internally displaced citizens throughout the country. And then there was that Kuwait thing where Iraq invaded and pretty much raped the country.

Originally posted by sassa

Another 15 minutes of silence for the Russians and 150,000 Afghans killed by the Talibaan troops who were supported and trained by the CIA.

The Soviet Union was still a communist state and an enemy of the United States. The only bad thing the US did was not stick around after the Soviet Union left to help create a post-war gov't. Also, didnt the Soviet Union supply Northern Vietnam with weapons and training during the Vietnam War????

Originally posted by sassa

Plus 10 minutes of silence for 100,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.

The Nanjing Massacre:1937-1938

Japan's army indulged in an orgy of killing, raping, and looting in the Chinese city of Nanjing. When it was over, 200,000-300,000 were dead, mostly women, children, civilians, and prisoners of war. Thousands of women were raped and when they were no longer useful, they were butchered. Similiar massacres occured in Hong Kong, Singapore, and other Asian cities. Lets not forget Pearl Harbor. But what the US did was completly uncalled for?????

Originally posted by sassa

If you are still in awe, let's have another hour of silence for all those killed in Vietnam, which is not something Americans like to admit.

The NVA was supplied by the Soviet Union. This is just like Afghanistan in the 80's except in both cases we werent the ones invading the country. So in other words, what you're saying is that its ok if some other country does it but not if the US.

Originally posted by sassa

Or for the massacre in Panama in 1989, where Americans troops attacked poor villagers, leaving 20,000 Panamanians homeless and thousands more dead.

I will agree to a certain extent on this. But lets look at the events that led up to this. When Noriega came to power he became involved with the Medallin drug cartel in Columbia. The same cartel run by Pablo Escobar who coordinated a terrorist campaign againt civilians, police, judges, and government officials so that the Columbian gov't would renounce extradition because he was indicted in the drug trade. In 1989 he assasinated 3 out of 5 presidential candidates and blew and airliner out of the sky killing 130 people. So this was cause for concern. Noriega also murdered Hugo Spadafora, the leader of Noriega's political opposition. Also in 1985, a pro-Noriega mob attacked the US Embassy in Panama. In 1988 Noriega was indicted on drug trafficking charges. Throughout 1988 and 1989, Noriega ran a campaign of harrasing American citizens in Panama. He also recieved $20 million from Libya in 1989 for permision to use Panama as a base to coordinate the activities of terrorist and insurgent groups in Latin America. On May 7th 1989, Panamanians elected candidates of the anti-Noriega opposition. Noriega's goon squads tried to coerce voters but that didnt work. So he annulled them and sanctioned violence against the leaders. After they were beaten, the opposition leaders went into hiding and Noriega remained in control. On December 15, 1989, Noriega passed a resolution stated that a state of war existed with the United States. The next day one US officer was killed and 3 others injured when their car was fired upon by PDF(Panama Defense Force) gaurds at a checkpoint. This was witnessed by a junior US Naval officer and his wife. They were arrested and beaten. After this the US military was sent in to capture him. The problem with this was that they werent trained for urban warfare, with the exception of the US Special Forces. This resulted in the loss of civilian life. The US didnt go in there just because they felt like invading a country. It was brought upon those people by the dictators that ran the country. The US had no other choice.

Originally posted by sassa

Or for the millions of children who have died because of the USA embargoes on Iraq and Cuba.

Those embargos and sanctions were brought on by Iraq and Cuba, not the US. The US didnt invade Kuwait or slaughter thousands of ethnic Kurds with chemical weapons. And lets not forget the Cuban Missile Crisis. As long as Cuba remains a communist state, those sanctions will remain in place.

Now dont get me wrong. The loss of human life is always tragic. But the US didnt initiate any of these events. All they did was respond.

[ecstatichigh35]

While we take an hour of silence, let's add another year of silence to that for the 6,000,000 jews that were killed by the nazi's during the holocaust, which don't forget was ended by the US.

[madrusso]

damn....

lets just fuckin' remain quite for the rest of our lifes

Peace,

[ecstatichigh35]

Originally posted by madrusso

damn....

lets just fuckin' remain quite for the rest of our lifes

Peace,

Thats the best idea i've heard yet....then we won't all have all this immature arguing bullshit going on

[msoprano]

Originally posted by blackhaus1

First of all, I'm female.

Second of all msoprano, I did back my info up with factual information. Were thousands, *ahem* millions of our people not killed? Did u lose no one you cared about on September 11th? Obviously not, b/c if you did, you'd feel alot differently. Were we NOT deliberately attacked in ALL the occasions mentioned?

If you wanna have your point of view, thats just fine, but to express an anti-american point of view like that on a public message board is asking to be bashed. So forgive me for starting drama- actually fuck that-my drama is completely justified...if you hate our government, then go find one you agree with. I'm sure in that country, you'll find far more flaws than in ours.

Oh, and u can take your anti-american bullshit and shove it up your ass.

please dont tell me i dont care about sept 11 becasue the fact of the matter is i did lose 2 people that i know so once again you jump to conclusions and make statements without knowing what you are talking about....no drama intended and everyone has the right to speak what they want......all i tried to do was enlighten some people on why these things happen and try to answer the question why everyone outside of america hates america....i beielve in sassa's post and in my first post we explained just a few of the reasons why this county is hated so much outside of here....

[kb]

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God

Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone

might be offended.

Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags

removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue

ribbons

removed from the lapels of reporters. Why? Management

did

not want to appear biased and felt that our nations

flag

might give the appearance that "they lean one way or

another".

Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being

displayed on

city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend

anyone

in the community.

In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public

library at

Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be

an

American" signs removed so as to not offend

international

students.

I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of

so-called

American citizens; and I am tired of this nation

worrying

about whether or not we are offending some individual

or

their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on

September 11,

we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the

majority of

Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had

barely

settled in New York and Washington D.C. when the

"politically

correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility

that

our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge

against

anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to

America. In

fact, our country's population is almost entirely

comprised of

descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few

things that

those who have recently come to our country, and

apparently

some native Americans, need to understand.

First of all, it is not our responsibility to

continually try

not to offend you in any way. This idea of America

being a

multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our

sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans,

we have

our own culture, our own society, our own language,

and our

own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way"

has been

developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and

victories by

millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our

forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as

Bunker

Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea,

Vietnam,

We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese,

Japanese,

Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish

to

become part of our society - learn our language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not

some

off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan

- it

is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the

House

of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on

our

currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men

and

women, on Christian principles, founded this nation;

and

this is clearly documented throughout our history. If

it is

appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls

of our

highest level of Government, then it is certainly

appropriate

to display it on the walls of our schools.

God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly

every

patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We

honor His

birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we

turn to

Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you,

then

I suggest you consider another part of the world as

your new

home, because God is part of our culture and we are

proud

to have Him.

We are proud of our heritage and those who have so

honorably

defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day,

Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have

parades,

picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag.

As

an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my

national

anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge

whenever

and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend

you, or

you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously

consider a

move to another part of this planet.

The American culture is our way of life, our heritage,

and we

are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and

have no

desire to change, and we really don't care how you did

things

where you came from. We are Americans, like it or not,

this

is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.

Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to

express

his opinion about our government, culture, or society,

and we

will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once

you are

done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag,

our

pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I

highly

encourage you take advantage of one other great

American

freedom, the right to leave.

Barry Loudermilk

If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!

It is time to take a stand!!

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.

http://personals.yahoo.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C156DD.46A898E0--

[loch]

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66435

[sassa]

Originally posted by massad

actually i remember sassa saying that's she's an arab in some post before so ig uess she does know what it is like in iraq :D that's why her ass came to this country.....

No, I am not Arab.

[sassa]

Originally posted by blackhaus1

You also fail to mention how all those other countries that we attacked attacked us FIRST. After Pearl Harbor, should we have sat here and let them repeatedly bomb us?

After Iraq was threatening our oil supply which we rely so heavily on by invading Kuwait, should we have sat back and watched?

After they killed our innocent civilians on September 11th, should we have sat here and let them do it again?

If this starts drama, so be it. You have some seriously fucked up views and if you hate our government so much, then move the fuck out. We don't need jackasses like you in our country in the first place.

Buy my ticket for me.Otherwise, don't write stupid shit like this.I am not leaving the US just because you or someone else told me to.So you can stop repeating this, it's like a broken record...something I don't care to hear. Please....couldn't you come up with anything more intelligent to say?

[mfiorellino]

Originally posted by kb

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God

Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone

might be offended.

Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being

displayed on

city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend

anyone

in the community.

What!!!!???That's terrible. Shame on Berkely!!!! After reading some of these anti-U.S postings I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to posting things on the internet people really have brass balls. I'd give anything to see some of these anti-American opinions be voiced in front of a pack of firemen and rescue workers. Oh man, would that would be one hell of a confrontation. Anyway if there are any New York firemen reading this, I salute you! You guys kick ass!

[sassa]

Originally posted by blackhaus1

You have some seriously fucked up views and if you hate our government so much, then move the fuck out. We don't need jackasses like you in our country in the first place.

If this is true, then why are you still here?

[blackhaus1]

Originally posted by sassa

If this is true, then why are you still here?

Hunny, I'm far from a jackass. You're the one whos sitting here ranting and raving about how bad our country blows. If you hate it so much, then LEAVE. Its scary that people like you are allowed to remain in our country.

I'm still here b/c I believe in what our country is doing to defend itself. I say drop a nuke on the country and kill them all, like they would do to us if they had the means. I believe in that war with wall my power and might. If it was up to me, i'd go fight tomorrow. They deserve what they're getting. I'm finished with this post. I've expressed my views and I have nothing else to say on this matter.

[sassa]

Originally posted by blackhaus1

Hunny, I'm far from a jackass. You're the one whos sitting here ranting and raving about how bad our country blows. If you hate it so much, then LEAVE. Its scary that people like you are allowed to remain in our country.

I'm still here b/c I believe in what our country is doing to defend itself. I say drop a nuke on the country and kill them all, like they would do to us if they had the means. I believe in that war with wall my power and might. If it was up to me, i'd go fight tomorrow. They deserve what they're getting. I'm finished with this post. I've expressed my views and I have nothing else to say on this matter.

Buy me a plane ticket to Fiji and I'll consider it. LOL:laugh: :laugh:

[xtcgirlie]

Originally posted by sassa

Buy me a plane ticket to Fiji and I'll consider it. LOL:laugh: :laugh:

Buy your own ticket if u have problems with the US government now or in the past... Wasn't that the point?

[renntenn]

Communists arent civilians ...they are all a threat to what is good and fair in this world...they had to be stopped...therefore its not terrorism

[kramadas]

Originally posted by blackhaus1

Hunny, I'm far from a jackass. You're the one whos sitting here ranting and raving about how bad our country blows. If you hate it so much, then LEAVE. Its scary that people like you are allowed to remain in our country.

I'm still here b/c I believe in what our country is doing to defend itself. I say drop a nuke on the country and kill them all, like they would do to us if they had the means. I believe in that war with wall my power and might. If it was up to me, i'd go fight tomorrow. They deserve what they're getting. I'm finished with this post. I've expressed my views and I have nothing else to say on this matter.

If you don't like freedom of speech, leave the country.

You talk so much of fighting...are you enlisted?

[kramadas]

Let me ask all you right-wing-defend-the-country-no-matter-what-it-does people....you all say that even though the US has committed mistakes in the past, that we should still stand behind it, no questions asked...let me ask you this...if the US was currently engaged in activities that causes the deaths of thousands of civilians overseas on a regular basis, would you still support it unfailingly (KNOWING that our govt is killing innocent people)?

The power of this nation lies in the ability of its people to question its leadership.

IMO, Sept 11, was an act of revenge carried out by desperate people who did not have any other way to attack a govt that, in their opinions, was massacring thousands of its civilians through sanctions, arms sales, and direct support of dictactorial regimes (egm Saudi). This is a deep hatred, caused by frustration at a bully (again in their eyes) that they could do nothing about...until Sept 11.

I agree the terrorists have to be routed out, so I support this campaign against Bin Laden, BUT after that the US HAS to re-assess its foreign policies.

I value the freedom and luxuries the US has given me BUT not based on the blood of thousands of innocent non-Americans!

[kramadas]

Originally posted by renntenn

Communists arent civilians ...they are all a threat to what is good and fair in this world...they had to be stopped...therefore its not terrorism

Thats the most ignorant trash I've heard all week!!!

[laraver]

Sassa - Once again you come out on the board and start your anti-American rhetoric.

Is America perfect, do we never make mistakes, of course not.

The US does not however seek to target innocent civilians as a matter of policy. When are you going to get it?

If the Bin Laden, Al Quaida, and the Taliban really wanted to help their people they should have spent their millions for positive purposes, not on trying to destabilize existing legitimate governments.

What if instead they had trained people to remove mines, improve the agricultural base of Afghanistan, started businesses and industries that would have employed people? If they really cared that is what they would have done.

Instead they have shown their true colors: coward yellow. They can only generate more hate and enrich their own egos and positon by blaming someone else. They need only to look in the mirror to see the root of their problems.

They need to stop their whining and crying about how big bad America has destroyed their world and values through westernization and get on with improving the lives of their people.

Do you forget how through the Marshall plan in Europe and the rebuilding of Japan the US sunk billions of dollars into rebuilding our former enemies.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve by continually coming out here on this board and blaming America for the world's problems. Do you think the world would be a better place without this country? What would you replace it with, "The Caliphate" as envisioned by Osama.

Somebody should make you wear a burka, stay in a house with the windows painted balck and not be able to leave without a relative escorting you for a year. Throw in some regular beating by the Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue gestapo and after that year I wonder how much of a negative nature you would have to say about the country that gives you the freedom you so often abuse.

[msoprano]

Originally posted by renntenn

Communists arent civilians ...they are all a threat to what is good and fair in this world...they had to be stopped...therefore its not terrorism

to bad a lot of policies that this county has for example workmans comp and benefits are rooted from communist ideas

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by ecstatichigh35

While we take an hour of silence, let's add another year of silence to that for the 6,000,000 jews that were killed by the nazi's during the holocaust, which don't forget was ended by the US.

not really....the soviets defeated germany...not the united states

and most of the concentration camps were in eastern europe, most of which was liberated by the soviet union by the time we got there

[msoprano]

Originally posted by bigpoppanils

not really....the soviets defeated germany...not the united states

and most of the concentration camps were in eastern europe, most of which was liberated by the soviet union by the time we got there

yea good point bro.,...i dont get why people make random statements and not know whats really up...the u.s. knew about the camps since 1941 and didnt bother to even speak against it.....