Suicide blast in Jerusalem kills 1 Israeli, injures 110

[rachel1997]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/01/27/mideast.accuse/index.html

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- One Israeli was killed and more than 110 people were injured in a Palestinian suicide bombing attack midday Sunday in the center of west Jerusalem, Israeli authorities said. It was the second attack in the same area in less than a week.

The bomber also was killed, Israeli police said.

The Palestinian Authority leadership said it strongly condemned the attack.

But Israeli officials laid the blame on Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

"The Palestinian people and the Palestinian leadership have reached a moment of truth, and they have to make a decision," said Ranaan Gissin, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. "We are not going to allow ourselves to continue to be victims of this terrorist campaign."

[rachel1997]

The powerful blast, which coincided with the beginning of the Israeli workweek, occurred near Jaffa and King George streets, a busy commercial strip where a Palestinian gunman went on a shooting spree last week, killing two women and injuring more than a dozen people before police shot him dead.

Jaffa Street is also close to the Sbarro pizza restaurant where a suicide bomber killed 15 people last year.

Emergency service personnel raced to the scene, treated people and took some to hospitals. Most of those treated had minor injuries or were suffering from shock, hospital authorities said.

The bomber's body was found at the scene with explosives still attached, and police are looking for any accomplices.

Israel has mounted a sustained clampdown on the Palestinian Authority since a January 17 attack at a bat mitzvah gathering in Hadera that killed six Israelis. The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an arm of Arafat's Fatah movement, claimed responsibility for the Hadera attack and for a shooting rampage Tuesday in Jerusalem that wounded more than 40 Israelis.

The group said their attacks came in revenge for the killing of Fatah leader Raed al-Karmi on January 14 and for the deaths of four Hamas activists who were killed in an Israeli raid in the West Bank town of Nablus earlier Tuesday. Karmi was on Israel's most-wanted list for taking responsibility for the deaths last year of two Tel Aviv restaurant owners. Israeli authorities have also accused him of being involved in the deaths of eight other Israelis.

Attacks on Israelis had abated briefly following Arafat's call for a cease-fire on December 16, which followed a rash of suicide attacks on Israeli civilians. But top Israeli officials have accused the Palestinian leader of supporting rather than combating terrorism.

In Washington, the Bush administration continues to mull its options in its relationship with Arafat.

Government officials said Saturday they would not be sending Mideast envoy Anthony Zinni back to the region at this time. Zinni has been trying to broker a cease-fire and cooling-off period between the Israelis and Palestinians.

One source said Arafat urged U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell -- in a phone call Wednesday -- to send Zinni, a retired Marine general, back to the region to help restore calm.

"But Powell told Arafat, 'You have a lot of things to do on security, and you better act quickly,' " one official said. "Without some action there is no envoy, there is no U.S. engagement."

Bush administration officials said they are focusing on the issue of "what Arafat needs to do" to end terrorism and "clear the way for peace," making it clear that they are not considering sending Zinni to the troubled region at this time.

One official with the National Security Council said the time is not right for a

[rachel1997]

Zinni mission and that officials will not change their minds for the moment.

Debris was scattered after the blast that killed an Israeli and hurt more than 110 people in a busy commercial strip.

[undergr0und]

when will Israel finally seize all of the palestinian lands, kick arafat out and arrest of the terrorists. i think majority of palestinian people want the same thing.....

[Xpander]

Originally posted by undergr0und

when will Israel finally seize all of the palestinian lands, kick arafat out and arrest of the terrorists. i think majority of palestinian people want the same thing.....

Why would you think the Palestinian people would want a thing like that?

[mysterynyc]

I can't really have respect for people who tell their children to gothrow rocks, as well as strapping bombs to themselves in the name of G-d.

Suicide is a sin, doesn't matter who's name it's done in.

[breakbeatz2]

Originally posted by xpander

Why would you think the Palestinian people would want a thing like that?

because they are a supid, ignorant people who have contributed absolutely nothing to our world except strife. and in their miniscule minds, falsely dying in the name of Allah will bring them to the promise land, so i say they should go meet the fate they desire quicker, so we can finally stop reading about how many innocent people have been killed by these worthless insects.

and if anybody got beef with what i say, i'll kick your ass

JDL, Kahane C'hai

[breakbeatz2]

[Xpander]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

because they are a supid, ignorant people who have contributed absolutely nothing to our world except strife. and in their miniscule minds, falsely dying in the name of Allah will bring them to the promise land, so i say they should go meet the fate they desire quicker, so we can finally stop reading about how many innocent people have been killed by these worthless insects.

and if anybody got beef with what i say, i'll kick your ass

JDL, Kahane C'hai

Such a thoughtful argument.

Worthless and devoid of any substance whatsoever, but thoughtful nontheless, I'm sure.

[breakbeatz2]

actually, the only thing that's worthless are those bastards who are strapping explosives to their chests. and as for you, only thing you can do is describe my words with adjectives??? yeah, the mark of a true genius.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

actually, the only thing that's worthless are those bastards who are strapping explosives to their chests. and as for you, only thing you can do is describe my words with adjectives??? yeah, the mark of a true genius.

Did anyone claim to be a genius here?

I thought not.

And since you asked for it, I'll go a little "beyond" adjectives. You see, "worthless and devoid of thought" tends to apply to a statement that takes the comments and criticisms for extremists and apply it to an ENTIRE social group.

I asked a question about the Palestinian PEOPLE.

Oh wait, I forgot, every last one of them are terrorists that deserves to be wiped out.

Next time, learn how to read.

[breakbeatz2]

well, 99% are. the rest get the benefit of the doubt from me. when Arafat denounces a terrorist attack and gets a demonstration from his people for doing so, it pretty much sums up the mindset of those people.

those people were dancing and partying when the WTC attack occured. they burn American flags, and seek death because their lives are so meaningless. how does any American defend people who wish his death? you are speaking out for people who would love to put a bullet in your head, or kill your family with a shrapnel bomb. palestinians were offered land, they were offered a state, they were offered peace. they want violence? well then, they brought the wrath of Israel upon their own empty heads. i am just extremely pleased now that we have a man at the head of out country who sees things clearly and back Israel

[breaksny]

Wow and I thought I'd escaped Middle East politix on music boards when I left the GU board. Guess not. Maybe when Israel comes to the realization that it's occupation is what allows these violent political groups to gain an audience among the Palestinian population, then these attax will become less frequent. I don't see that happening any time soon. I therefore don't see the attacks happening any time soon either.

[mysterynyc]

Originally posted by breaksny

Wow and I thought I'd escaped Middle East politix on music boards when I left the GU board. Guess not. Maybe when Israel comes to the realization that it's occupation is what allows these violent political groups to gain an audience among the Palestinian population, then these attax will become less frequent. I don't see that happening any time soon. I therefore don't see the attacks happening any time soon either.

what do you mean 'occupation'. Israel is our homeland . If the Palestinians had it their way, all Jews around the world, not just in Israel....would be dead.

Occupation.....

[Xpander]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

well, 99% are. the rest get the benefit of the doubt from me. when Arafat denounces a terrorist attack and gets a demonstration from his people for doing so, it pretty much sums up the mindset of those people.

those people were dancing and partying when the WTC attack occured. they burn American flags, and seek death because their lives are so meaningless. how does any American defend people who wish his death? you are speaking out for people who would love to put a bullet in your head, or kill your family with a shrapnel bomb. palestinians were offered land, they were offered a state, they were offered peace. they want violence? well then, they brought the wrath of Israel upon their own empty heads. i am just extremely pleased now that we have a man at the head of out country who sees things clearly and back Israel

99% huh?

I'd love to see where you get your numbers.

And I love that this little bit of revelation into your mindset.

when Arafat denounces a terrorist attack and gets a demonstration from his people for doing so, it pretty much sums up the mindset of those people.

It's nice to know that the attitudes of 1.5 million people can be summed up in one demonstration.

And exactly how did a few strips of TV footage lead one to the conclusion that all 1.5 million palestinians deserved to be wiped out?

So let's see, by the same principle: Since Yitzhak Rabin was assasinated by an Israeli law student for his efforts in the peace process, then all Jews must be bloodthirsty backstabbers who lives for chaos, right?

Glad you could clear that up for me.

[breakbeatz2]

every society has roten apples. if there was news of an israeli terrorist every day, maybe i'd see your point. but that was one time. and, if palestinians would go and kill Arafat i wouldnt say anything. maybe laugh a little, but i wouldnt say anything.

bottom line, if a people continuously shows themselves to be something, then it probably is. every day you read palestinians did this and that. bottom line, the few who are not blood-thirsty ignorant cavemen are vastly outnumbered. that is why we never hear of them. and yes, you can judge the whole country by what its people repeatedly and continuosly do.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by mysterynyc

what do you mean 'occupation'. Israel is our homeland . If the Palestinians had it their way, all Jews around the world, not just in Israel....would be dead.

Occupation.....

And how did you get that insight into what Palestinians think?

[breakbeatz2]

Originally posted by xpander

And how did you get that insight into what Palestinians think?

you are very naive. very vey naive. i guess we americans can afford to be naive, living such a nice life and being so far from the thick of things. nevertheless, i though that sep. 11th would open some people's eyes. i guess not yours

[breaksny]

You're missing the whole point. The historic compromise the PLO has already made is giving up 78% of the Palestinians' historical homeland (whether it's the same piece of land as yours or not) in order to have a small state of their own in the "occupied territories." Something the outside world has denied them for over half a century btw. You are aware that this land is called the "occupied territories" btw, aren't you? The reason these organizations (and yes some are obviously tied to the PA, I wouldn't deny that) are taking their war of independence into Israel is because frankly, Israel is doing the same to Palestine. With much more devastating effect on hundreds of thousands of peoples lives, I might add.

I don't condone killing civilians, but frankly who's dying here more? The overwhelming casualties in this latest infitada have been Palestinian, not Israeli. I don't in the least mean to imply Israeli casualties don't matter, of course they do. But when you have nothing but stones, guns and bombs to fight for your right to self determination (something Sharon and Netanyahu especially don't seem to recognize as a right the Palestinian people possess), fighting by far the strongest military, economic, and political power in the Middle East, you use the few tools you have. Israel is occupying Palestine (meaning the territories) and that is the root problem here. That and the fact that most Israelis support a man the UN rightly has called a war criminal.

Peace may be impossible now in the lifetime of Arafat anyway since I don't think most Palestinians support it anymore b/c they know the peace they will be offered will leave them with a state that is geographically, economically, and politically unviable b/c of continued large chunks of Israeli occupation. And frankly, Barak's offer in 2000, while more generous, did the same, since it, for example, trisected the Gaza Strip with Israeli security corridors and roads that essentially broke the portion of a proposed Palestine into Bantustans, the way the South African government did to its African population under appartheid. It would've also maintained large Israeli settlements, protected by their (not Palestinian) security presences that would've further undermine Palestinian soverereinty from an ecomic, diplomatic, military, and political perspective.

I'll say more later I guess.

[mysterynyc]

Originally posted by xpander

And how did you get that insight into what Palestinians think?

bro...you my boy. i don't want to get into politics with you....ESPECIALLY the Palst/Israeli thing.

When it comes to this issue, I'm a crazy Jew lol. I can get pretty wound up about it. Otherwise, I'm as chill as can be.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

you are very naive. very vey naive. i guess we americans can afford to be naive, living such a nice life and being so far from the thick of things. nevertheless, i though that sep. 11th would open some people's eyes. i guess not yours

The typical "September 11th means I can wipe out the entire Muslim population from the face of the planet" argument.

Right.

And there ARE Jews in Israel who're aiming for peace. I guess they're naive and too used to "living the high life" too.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by mysterynyc

bro...you my boy. i don't want to get into politics with you....ESPECIALLY the Palst/Israeli thing.

When it comes to this issue, I'm a crazy Jew lol. I can get pretty wound up about it. Otherwise, I'm as chill as can be.

Ahh, agree to disagree eh...

Politics is a bitch isn't it?

Shame it's such a fundamental and IMO unavoidable part of human relations.

I'll see you at Pseudo.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

every society has roten apples. if there was news of an israeli terrorist every day, maybe i'd see your point. but that was one time. and, if palestinians would go and kill Arafat i wouldnt say anything. maybe laugh a little, but i wouldnt say anything.

bottom line, if a people continuously shows themselves to be something, then it probably is. every day you read palestinians did this and that. bottom line, the few who are not blood-thirsty ignorant cavemen are vastly outnumbered. that is why we never hear of them. and yes, you can judge the whole country by what its people repeatedly and continuosly do.

But there's also news of Palestinians being killed everyday.

So you're suggesting that the Jews killed are innocent and the Palestinians who are killed are just dead people?

So there're a disproportional amount of Blacks in U.S. jails. Under your principle...being Black is bad?

[breaksny]

Ya but look. My Dad's from Lithuania. He basically hates Russians b/c of the 100s of years of their occupation of his homeland. Well he used to feel that way anyway. So what if you're Jewish, Muslim, or whatever else...what does it matter? I guess I'd put the question to people who don't agree or understand the mainstream (moderate) Palestinian argument this way (and keep in mind it's obviously just a hypothetical question). If the PA accepted a state in the territories in exchange for peaceful coexistence with Israel, would you support the complete removal of any Israeli military presence in East Jerusalem (since the vast majority of Israeli Jews in Jerusalem live in the Western section of the city anyway) and the territories? And let's say the temple mount (Haram al Sharif) is either put under joint, international, or divine sovereignty as a compromise on maybe the single most contentious issue in any proposed settlement. Obviously another provision in such a settlement would be the crushing of Palestinian militant attacks on Israeli soil as well. Would you find such a settlement reasonable in exchange for peaceful coexistence? That obviously goes farther than what Barak has offered. But it leaves Israel in control of 78% of its historical homeland, and continued access to the most important portion of its holiest city as well. That's what I understand to be the mainstream, moderate Palestinian position on what they want in exchange for peace. I'm not denying there are many radical groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PFLP, the DFLP, and others that do want to see Israel's destruction. As well probably as some dissident factions of the PLO. But these are still (after all this carnage) a minority among Palestinian society). This seems to me the best way out of the conflict. I don't see it happening anytime soon for a whole host of reasons I'm sure the rest of you will be happy to elaborate upon. I just don't see any other way out. The violence will probably continue, if not worsen unless steps are taken in that direction. Seizing the territories, for example, would create a far worse situation than now, and would probably seriously hurt Israel's relations with America (as well as nations with which it has friendly diplomatic relations at present, i.e. the EU, Jordan, and Egypt). Not to mention the more important point that it would be occupying a people who would then be completely hostile in their attitudes toward their occupier. And expulsion of the Palestinian population, that's basically another word for what Milosevic did in Croatia, Kosovo, and Bosnia in the 90s. And you all know where he is now.

[breakbeatz2]

palestinians are killed in retaliation

the disspraportionate number of blacks in jail is a result of the messed up socio-economic problem created by the mergence of urban ghettos which are predominantly black neighborhoods. blacks often reside in high crime areas, and thus there is an endless cycle of poverty which leads to crime and so on. this is a completely different problem which i believe warrants a great deal of attention, but has very little relevence to the middle east problem.

the palestinians are a separate people, united in their hatred against Israel. i am sure that there are palestinians who are kind generous, peace-loving, and understanding. (although they would probably be killed by bastard terrorists for treason) however, the mindset of the ruling body, and of the majority of the people that are visible through demonstrations, is that violence is the answer and terrorist is the way. the few that dont think so are not heard. they are like the minority of imbeciles int he US that preach hate and racism. they are not heard because we denounce that in the US. peace is denounced by the majority of Palestinians.

you are naive in that you think that this world can be a peaceful and loving place where doves fly through the white clouds under the shining sun. reality check buddy, go into a certain neighborhood, and you'll get your ass kicked and your stuff robbed. go into a palestininan village as a Jew and you'll get your head cut off. that is the reality. if there is one palestinian sitting in his hut who doesnt think that what his brothers are doing to the poor old Jewish man outside, it doesnt matter much, because he is staying quiet.

peace-wanting palestinians are staying quiet and not speaking out against their terrorist kinsmen. thus, they are no better than those who are terrorists. until i see a movement in the palestinian people against this terrorism, i will judge the whole people as racist and ignorant and as TERRORISTS.

i'm sorry but i havent heard one Palestinian official speak of peace. all i hear, even from Arafat himself, is "i will die for my cause," i think Israel will be happy to oblige