Israelies bulldozed another 14 Palestinians homes this week

[alfuckingcapone]

I feel just as bad for the innocent palestinians as I do for the innocent israelis. The terrible actions by extremist like Jihad and Hamas, are killing many palestinians. Just like the terrible actions of Sharon, are making his people targets of terror. It's a two way street, not one. Close to 900 pals and close to 300 israelies have died over the latest uprising.

Here is a good article that shows the other side is living a life of fear and terroist attacks on them too.

THE US WILL NOT DARE TO CRITICIZE ISRAEL FOR ITS CRIME

By Charley Reese

The israelis bulldozed another 14 palestinian homes this week in a reugee camp in gaza. The US said the act was "provocative"

Actually, it was a war crime. Actually, what the isralis have been doing to the pals has been correctly characterized by the internantional RED CROSS as war crimes and by the UNITED NATIONS as "an affront to civilization"

Wow. Golly gee whiz. Old George Bush promised he would provide leadership, and that's real leadership, calling a war crime "provocative" Finally, after 8 months of refusing to utter even that bland a criticism, he managed to say the destruction of homes so precious to such terribly poor people is "provocative"

One day, Americans are going to wake up from more than 50 years of ZIONIST propaganda and suddenly feel like strangers in a strange land, to borrow the title of an science-fiction work. They're going to finally see the simple truth: Israelis drove pals out of their own country and confiscated their land and wealth. Israelis refused to allow (and still refuse) palistinian refuges to return, despite the U.N. resolutions instucting them to do so.

In 1967, the israelis attacked and took the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. Since then, they have ruled it and still rule, despite U.N. resolutions against their actions. Now, after dragging out so-called peace negoations for 10 years-how can the simple question, "When are you going to withdraw from the territories you illegally occupy?" take 10 years?-drama is heading toward a climax.

The israelis have tried economic strangulation. They have tried to force the pals to accept a chopped-up pseudocounrty. They have tried killing their children, demolishing their homes and assassinating their leaders. They tried uprooting their agricultural orchards and sealing the pals off from normal travel.

By the way, where are you enviromentalists while the israelis commit this environmental atrocity? Don't you know how long it takes for an olive tree to reach maturity and start bearing fruit? I thought were concerned about the enviroment. Oh excuse me-not when it's a palestinian environment. My mistake. I sometimes forget who is a hypocrite and who isn't because there are so many these days.

What's next, of course, is for the israelis to take off the bloody glove and commit one super massacre in attempt to drive the pals out or to break their spirit. This is what the pals expect. They are bracing for it. They know that the israelis have elected the one politician, Ariel Sharon, willing to do it.

It's already terrible what the pals are going through, and this next assault, when it comes, will be far worse. They need the support now of the decent people with the courage to stand up for human rights. As you can see, the Bush administration prefers to remain on its knees. Most members of Congress are afraid to do that. They prefer the supine position, total prostration.

If you can't find courage to speak out against evil financed with your tax money, then at least watch palestinian children show you how real men and women live and die with honer

[breakbeatz2]

this man should be shot. please tell me where he lives so that i can carry this out.

but seriously, this is bullshit. EVERY, and i mean EVERY Israeli action has been a retaliation for some horrid Palestinian atatck. if there was no terrorist attacks, you wouldnt see any villages bulldozed or any occupations of Palestinian areas. bottom line: the Palestinians are responsible for their own fate

Israel willeventually prevail int his war. the terorists will be wiped out the only thing that is up to consideration is how the palestinian people will come out of this. with every attack, their credibility as a civilized people diminishes, and in the eyes of many westerners, they are nothing more than savages by now.

the palestinians are not suffering from anybody's actions but their own.

[tribal]

hey capone, where did you get that article?

apart from the usual leftist drivel about conspiracy theories and 'zionist propaganda', the article is plain innacurate besides being propaganda in its own way.

consider simple contradictory facts that

a. israel did not attack west bank and gaza in 67. in 67, Egypt and Syria amassed thousands of troops, armor and fighter bombers on the israeli border, when Mossad and Shin bet (israeli intelligence) recieved recon photos and internal confirmation of pending attack by the arabs, israel launched a pre emptive strike, knocking out the brunt of the combined arab force. During the middle of the war, King hussein, seeking to strengthen his pan-arab image among the arab world, declared war on israel and launched his main armor units into the heart of east jerusalem, which was still under Jordanian control

Jordan's armor battalions were chewed to bits by Israeli air force, and within hours, the IDF secured eastern jerusalem and the holiest site to Judaism, the remnants of the Temple (wailing wall)

Israel didnt illigaly take those areas, the arabs lost them militarily.

second point about palst house demolition. in IDF (israel defense forces), there is a clear doctorine designed to combat terror and suicide bombers. the doctrine says that if the IDF or Shin Bet finds out the name of the suicide bomber, israeli tanks will go to the village where the bomber is from, and demolish his house, and his family's house, in order to hinder future attacks. if the bomber knows his family will be left homeless, he will think twice about killing civilians. this tactic is not very useful because the main palst terror cells use mostly college students for bombings, or people who dont have a large family.

this is just another tactic thats deemed 'controversial' by the world, just like assassinating 'palst activists', aka terrorists like Karni, a man whos killed 9 israeli civilians through highjacking, carbombs and suicide bombers. he was killed by israeli special forces about a month ago. another reason why the IDF demolished palst houses is becuase on a number of occasions, the houses are being used as palst sniper nests, who shoot into nearby israeli areas, targeting civilians.

2 sides to every story

[nycmuzik]

I read all the articles about Israel doing all these evil things but none of these journalists say anything about the PLO supporting terrorist groups. What other option does Israel have? A week before Anthony Zinni was to arrive to try and negotiate a peace agreement, Hamas and the other terrorist groups start with the suicide bombings. And there have been times in the past where the Palestinian leaders have turned down peace agreements……..

[alfuckingcapone]

Yo relax guys! I said I feel bad for both sides. Yo Tribal I got the artilce on another message board(AOL turmoil in the middle east).

About the houses being demolished, I saw with my own eyes on the news many houses being demolished. Yo breakbeats the israelis are retaliation, but the pals can say the same thing. Who knows who started this shit first, but I do know that freaks hamas and jihad stoped there attacks a month or so back, but then your boy Sharon was still doing some fucked up shit. You can't tell me Sharon wants peace. I feel bad for the innocent on both sides. As much as Hamas and Jihad don't want to see the exsistence of Israel at all, same goes for Sharon on his thoughts of the pals.

[breakbeatz2]

bro if you dont know, then do me a favor and dont speak

everybody know who started this shit first palestinian terrorists. its not like you'll hear "israeli terrorist kills palestinian children, palestinian army blows up israeli village in retaliation"

second, Israeli govt. never said they dont want Palestinian state. they were willing to compromise. its the Palestinian who year for the destruction of Israel and cant be satisfied with anything but their own death!

[tribal]

i dont know how right you are about sharon not wanting peace. sharon is a general, a man of war, and yes he uses many excessive measures against palst. do i blame him? no, because he is doing whats in his nature, just like arafat is doing whats in arafat's nature, distrust and hate of israelis. sharon will never, ever, trust palst, a key to having a mutual peace. there are 2 ways that two nations can be at peace with each other. 1. is to trust each other re: military and engage in commerce, which builds peace and prosperity. 2. is to be military equals, or close to equals, thereby maintaining peace through deterrence (think US and USSR, cold war)

the problem with israel/palst is that those 2 conditions do not exist. many people expect the israelis to deal with palst, as they would deal with sovereign nations like Italy, China or SAfrica. the problem with palst, is that they may be a nationality, but certainly not a nation. why? because they have no legal or social system, their system is one of virtual anarchy. how can you expect israel to deal with them on merit of law, when palst do not know what law is, when known terrorists who bomb restaruants and night clubs full of teenagers, are let out free, and hailed as 'revolutionary heroes' or 'martyrs'???

the situation you have now is one of tribal conflict. i think its rather simple to assume that one side is bad and other good. we cant just apply our everyday assumptions as to what they must do, becuase we are thinking from a different world, a world with laws and consequences for actions. the israelis have laws, the palst dont. you are asking israel to refrain from violating laws while dealing with palst. but at what price? certainly not our lives, israelis are the price. the facts are clear, arafat must be replaced, if you notice the cycle, it begins with a suicide bomb or shooting on israeli civilians, followed by a vicious israeli retaliation, causing innocent deaths on both sides. when laws dont exist, neither does morality.

[nycmuzik]

Originally posted by tribal

the facts are clear, arafat must be replaced, if you notice the cycle, it begins with a suicide bomb or shooting on israeli civilians, followed by a vicious israeli retaliation, causing innocent deaths on both sides. when laws dont exist, neither does morality.

As bad as Arafat is, I think it would be alot worse if he was replaced. The same goes for Saddam Hussein. His sons who are supposed to take over for him are much more brutal. But no matter what happens, I feel that this conflict will not be resolved in my lifetime.......

[breakbeatz2]

i read an article oon Sadam's sons once

and all i can say is

them some crazy mofo's. take the phrase rape and pillage to new levels. sadam's regime needs to be toppled, or at least kept in check. his sons are going to be power hungry and willing to defy America better to act before shit hits the fan and things get out of hand.

[eak]

it's too bad u'r so ignorant. if i had the time, i'd point out the incredible amount of discrepancies u rattled off. . . . what a fool. it's funny when uninformed people try to sound intelligent. . . . keep up the good work . . . .

[eak]

i forgot to mention i was referring to alfuckingcapone, wow . . . .what a tool

[biatchzxz]

Honestly , there is no such thing as a good palest. most of them either hate israeli's or have some sort of hatred in them even if they arent terrorists because of even the innocent ones hate israelies because of the shit that happens there. They are all fucked up and should be lined up and shot all together. U never see israeli Females going into town for no reason and fucking blowing themselves up just to kill another person, thats just some fucking sick shit. we dont believe in that suicice bombing shit, Only fucking animals do , so if anyone even dares stick up for those fucking fools, u gotta a real problem and u should join them.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by biatchzxz

Honestly , there is no such thing as a good palest. most of them either hate israeli's or have some sort of hatred in them even if they arent terrorists because of even the innocent ones hate israelies because of the shit that happens there. They are all fucked up and should be lined up and shot all together. U never see israeli Females going into town for no reason and fucking blowing themselves up just to kill another person, thats just some fucking sick shit. we dont believe in that suicice bombing shit, Only fucking animals do , so if anyone even dares stick up for those fucking fools, u gotta a real problem and u should join them.

yeah, like those UN dumbasses...

[eak]

actually xpander, i also think that the majority of arabs r scumbags and i work for the un.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by eak

actually xpander, i also think that the majority of arabs r scumbags and i work for the un.

I was talking about the Zionism declaration made at the race conference a little while back...

But I suppose that that bit of information's...just as useful...

[mysterynyc]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

i read an article oon Sadam's sons once

and all i can say is

them some crazy mofo's. take the phrase rape and pillage to new levels. sadam's regime needs to be toppled, or at least kept in check. his sons are going to be power hungry and willing to defy America better to act before shit hits the fan and things get out of hand.

the one in Maxim,lol. yeah they're insane.

Saddam is a saint compared to his sons.

[mysterynyc]

why is everyone on the "left side" putting Zionism in a bad light.

WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH JEWS WANTING THEIR OWN STATE.

NO ONE NATION ON THIS PLANET FOR THE EXCEPTION OF THE UNITED STATES ACTUALLY LIKES (us) JEWS LIVING AMONG THEM, SO THEY WANT US OUT. THE ONLY PLACE LEFT FOR US TO GO, ULTIMATELY, IS BACK TO ISRAEL.

BUT WE CAN'T GO TO ISRAEL ,BECAUSE EVERYONE IS AGAINST THIS ZIONIST MOVEMENT, WHICH IS FOR SOME REASON SO WRONG IN EVERYONE'S EYES...SO IT'S LIKE A ROCK AND HARD PLACE,LOL.

TELL US WHERE TO GO:laugh: :rolleyes:

hmmm....let me guess...maybe you want us all dead?....all 15 million or so

(seems like more doesn't it by the way?)

[Abstrakt]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

bro if you dont know, then do me a favor and dont speak

everybody know who started this shit first palestinian terrorists. its not like you'll hear "israeli terrorist kills palestinian children, palestinian army blows up israeli village in retaliation"

second, Israeli govt. never said they dont want Palestinian state. they were willing to compromise. its the Palestinian who year for the destruction of Israel and cant be satisfied with anything but their own death!

Are you kidding me??? The Palestinian people had their land violently taken away from then after WWII to form the state of Isreal. So its the Palestinian's fault that they're in this predicament??? lol...how would you feel if an army showed up to your hometown and had you removed from YOUR OWN FUCKING HOME and decided to live there??? Would you sit back idly and do nothing??? Of course not...so dont churn out that "Palestinians started this shit first" bs, they were forcefully removed from their land.

I am not justifying the actions of the Palestinian terrorists, I think they are despicable animals and what they are doing contradicts the very foundation of the religion they so call "represent", but try to understand wtf is going on before you speak...no one is right in this situation unfortunately, but dont say "Palestinians started this first"...

[thole]

isreal should blow all the palestinians up and the problem would be solved. ...dirtbags

[tribal]

abstrakt, you are right on some parts but you are way off on the facts. when the jewish immigration to Trans Jordan (a british entity) was increasing, and strife among jews and arabs was high, the UN decided to create two states, one for palst and one for jews. the jews accepted the partition, i forgot what the UN number resolution it was (maybe Dr.Evil aka eak, can tell us ?), anyway the fact was that the palst rejected the plan and chose to wage a guerilla war on the pre-israel entity. the jewish underground army called the Haganah waged war on many palst militants, and used questionable tactics, like bombing British army buildings, and were therefore labeled jewish terrorists. the fact was that the plight of the palst resulted in the actions of the neighbor arab states, not of israel itself. Egypt, syria and jordan all declared war, on the day israel declared its independence, hoping to crush the embrionic state. as a result, many palst were asked to temporarily leave their homes so their arab brethren could wipe out the jews, without killing any palst in the cross fire. many other palst were kicked out of their homes by israeli troops, during the 48 war, for supporting or aiding the arab forces.

you guys make it so simple, the jews are right the arabs are wrong, or vice versa. the fact is that both sides are shady and both have committed crimes against each other.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by tribal

abstrakt, you are right on some parts but you are way off on the facts. when the jewish immigration to Trans Jordan (a british entity) was increasing, and strife among jews and arabs was high, the UN decided to create two states, one for palst and one for jews. the jews accepted the partition, i forgot what the UN number resolution it was (maybe Dr.Evil aka eak, can tell us ?), anyway the fact was that the palst rejected the plan and chose to wage a guerilla war on the pre-israel entity. the jewish underground army called the Haganah waged war on many palst militants, and used questionable tactics, like bombing British army buildings, and were therefore labeled jewish terrorists. the fact was that the plight of the palst resulted in the actions of the neighbor arab states, not of israel itself. Egypt, syria and jordan all declared war, on the day israel declared its independence, hoping to crush the embrionic state. as a result, many palst were asked to temporarily leave their homes so their arab brethren could wipe out the jews, without killing any palst in the cross fire. many other palst were kicked out of their homes by israeli troops, during the 48 war, for supporting or aiding the arab forces.

you guys make it so simple, the jews are right the arabs are wrong, or vice versa. the fact is that both sides are shady and both have committed crimes against each other.

yup...

[breaksny]

Al, I don't wanna put words in your mouth so I won't since I know your trying to be relatively balanced, which is commendable. I just think your article illustrates how unbalanced this conflict is. Some posters on the last thread on this conflict clearly misunderstood what I was saying on there since they seemed to be accusing me of condoning or minimizing the tragedy of Israeli casualties, which I've never done. I just feel the Israeli repsonse has been disproportionate to the actual security thread the PA (and other Palestinian factions) have posed to it, at least since the beginning of the 1st intifada 15 years ago. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't Israel had nuclear weapons for nearly that long or longer? You don't see the Palestinian government or any of their factions with that level of destructive power, or even the ability to enter Israel and destroy Israeli houses with bulldozers. I don't deny they have weapons, and I don't deny they use them...but this sort of thing shows who is REALLY suffering far more in this conflict, the Palestinians. Add up the numbers. I read Tom Friedman's op ed piece in the times today (as well as that bs 1 page ad sponsored by a slew of american jewish organizations calling for the Bush administration to withdraw diplomatic recognition from the PA...what a joke LOL). What a bunch of bs he was spouting. If you think this man is moderate, you need to learn a thing or 2 about Middle East politics. I'm not saying he has nothing to say, but his bias is heavily in Israel's favor still. And I really don't think he understands how central the creation of a Palestinian state free of any Israeli foreign influence is to peace. I'm not sure he knows or at least wants to acknowledge what a big problem Sharon's military operations are to Israel as well as the Palestinian people and the PA...he has no exit strategy, no concept of an endgame, and no clear goal as to what he hopes to achieve by destroying the PA. He obviously doesn't want piece either (not a viable one anyway, except maybe in the minds of the right wing freaks who believe like he does) since he wouldn't even offer the moderate concessions Barak made. O well...he'll be out of a job in a year or 2 anyway, either replaced by Netanyahu or someone in the Labor party. By then he or his successor may have to deal with Hamas, dissident factions of the PLO, Islamic Jihad and other more radical groups with deep roots in Palestinian society that are much more inimicable to negotiations than the Fatah faction is.

Btw, I don't think most of you realize how slanted the mainstream view is on this thread in the Israelis/Americans favor. Maybe you'd get a more balanced discussion on the London board where the word "liberal" isn't a dirty one.

[tribal]

yo breaks

you are absolutely right that this conflict is very split in opinion, and our media is absolutely horrible, i fucking HATE CNN. the problem is, i dont feel much sympathy for the palst, and ill tell you why. if you understand the cause and effect theory, you understand then, why the palst are living like they are living. their tactics are not very bright. no one gains sympathy by blowing people up. in fact, the sympathies are reversed. if the palst had any moral and social arguments against israelis, they become void, once that bomb goes off and kills israelis. it is israeli's every right then, to defend themselves, and i do think you are wrong in underestimating the security threat posed by the palst. many palst and other terror groups are connected in a network, like hezbolla and hamas. the security threat is not taken lightly in israel, just look at their airline security measures for EL AL. by the way, i am quiet sure that unless arafat does something extraordinary brilliant within next few weeks, bush will cut diplomatic ties. not much of a strategy, but his threat is real. go to www.debka.com an israeli intelligence site, great articles, shit you will never read on cnn

tom friedman is an excellent writer. read his book From Beirut to Jerusalem. excellent piece of work.

[BKDJ]

you know the sterotype that jews are greedy? na.... its those pali's that are greedy.

think about it. jews only have israel, or whatever's left of it. then look what the pali's have.. 99% of the mid est and most of asia, what else they want??

think, speak, understand.

[breaksny]

Where the hell do you come up with that reasoning? Cuz those are mostly Arab countries? Ever heard the fact (not a myth) that hundreds of thousands (maybe millions for all I know) of the Palestinian diaspora is a refugee population? You do know what a refugee is, right? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're just confused on the matter. But in case you and the rest of the board didn't know, Egyptian Arabs, for example, are very different from Saudi, Palestinian or any other nationality of Arabs. Get yer facts straight.