Why Sharon is Talking and Fighting

[spacemanspiff]

Originally posted by massad

yeah ookkkkkk there buddy. there are more people in israel than there are "palestinians" so i duno where you get your facts from

Here it is:

CIA Fact Book http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

Israel Population ~ 6 million

Jewish Population Percentage ~ 80%

Basic Math:

Jewish Pop. of Israel = 6M x 80% = 4.8M

Palestinian Refugees

McGill Uni.:

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/MEPP/PRRN/prissues.html

1996 population

West Bank and Gaza

Jordan 1,832,000

Lebanon 372,700

Syria 352,100

Israel 840,000

other Middle East states 446,600

non-Middle East states 452,000

TOTAL 6,375,400

In case you can finish the math:

I am pretty sure that 4.8 million is less than 6.4 million.

[undergr0und]

FUCK the arabs, whoever still defends them for any reason is oboiously in denial.

They are cowardly little creatures who would die in order to take some innocent lives with them. This fact alone is enough to stop people from beleiving that they deserve any kind of humane treatment.

The world better realizes what threat they pose. no more playing policitcs. action must be taken to restrain them from carrying out their attacts on the civilized world!

[dusted]

Originally posted by spacemanspiff

Here it is:

CIA Fact Book http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

Israel Population ~ 6 million

Jewish Population Percentage ~ 80%

Basic Math:

Jewish Pop. of Israel = 6M x 80% = 4.8M

Palestinian Refugees

McGill Uni.:

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/MEPP/PRRN/prissues.html

1996 population

West Bank and Gaza

Jordan 1,832,000

Lebanon 372,700

Syria 352,100

Israel 840,000

other Middle East states 446,600

non-Middle East states 452,000

TOTAL 6,375,400

In case you can finish the math:

I am pretty sure that 4.8 million is less than 6.4 million.

Funny, you took your Israeli figures from a CIA website, but you took your refugee figures from a Palestinian rights website.

I wonder what the Palestinian websites say about Jewish refugees from Arab lands?

You really can't count most of these people as being truly refugees, since the majority of them were born afterwards. The majority of them are due to the population expanding. That would be like saying all the Jews in the United States now are "Holocaust refugees".

Did it ever occur to you that these people have lots of kids in order to make their numbers higher?

[spacemanspiff]

You must be on crack. McGill is a University in Canada - Do you think that they are lying even though they have nothing at stake?

Btw if the Palestinians have no refugee rights because they are 1 or 2 generations removed from being displaced from their homeland, how do jews have refugee rights even though they were displaced hundreds of generations ago?

Originally posted by dusted

Funny, you took your Israeli figures from a CIA website, but you took your refugee figures from a Palestinian rights website.

I wonder what the Palestinian websites say about Jewish refugees from Arab lands?

You really can't count most of these people as being truly refugees, since the majority of them were born afterwards. The majority of them are due to the population expanding. That would be like saying all the Jews in the United States now are "Holocaust refugees".

Did it ever occur to you that these people have lots of kids in order to make their numbers higher?

[malone]

You must be on crack. McGill is a University in Canada - Do you think that they are lying even though they have nothing at stake?

Btw if the Palestinians have no refugee rights because they are 1 or 2 generations removed from being displaced from their homeland, how do jews have refugee rights even though they were displaced hundreds of generations ago?

Explain to us, if you would, who is making the claim that the rights of Israeli Jews derives from their status as "refugees"? I haven't come across anyone making such a claim. Look forward to you clarification.

[sassa]

Originally posted by malone

Firstly, It is extremely presumptious of you to state that Dusted is not aware that the Arabs are semitic also. No indication of such ignorance was evident by any of the post. What is quite evident, however, is your nit-picking ways, presumably to make your case appear more solid. With that in mind, I offer you the following definition from none other than "The American Heritage Dictionary Of The English Language": Anti-Semitic -- A person who is hostile to or prejudiced against Jews. Random House gives an identical definition. Alas, not an Arab in sight. Your argument , therefore, amounts to nothing more than sophistry. Sorry, do try again.

Ok, whatever....I merely saw what he wrote and responded to it. That's all. I was not presumptious, thank you very much.

[dusted]

Originally posted by sassa

Ok, whatever....I merely saw what he wrote and responded to it. That's all. I was not presumptious, thank you very much.

No, you didn't see what I wrote, since I didn't use the word "anti-Semitic". You saw what you wanted to see.

Is that all you have to say about the post? I would have thought that you, the resident expert on all things Islamic, would have had more to say. Why aren't you ripping my post apart? Come on! Surely, everything I wrote must have been lies, right?

[malone]

Ok, whatever....I merely saw what he wrote and responded to it. That's all. I was not presumptious, thank you very much.

__________________

How can you say that you responded to what Dusted wrote if he didn't, in fact, write it? Isn't it more accurate to say that you responded to what you supposed he wrote; what you thought someone who wouldn't share your world view must think and say and write? After all, how important can their opinions be: they disagree with you, don't they? So in a word -- You were being presumptious, weren't you?? That's right , PRESUMPTIOUS!! A little more precision with language would save much squirming later, and would be appreciated by those whom you target. Thank you very much.

[kramadas]

Malone and Dusted: You guys need to quit yapping like toothless dogs and start providing links to prove your points.

and again, I ask for proof backing all your original points, Dusted.

Nothing but useless, baseless opinions so far.

[igloo]

What a surprise....the two dickheads- Sassa and raver mania involved in their usual bullshit again..

[kramadas]

Originally posted by igloo

What a surprise....the two dickheads- Sassa and raver mania involved in their usual bullshit again..

oh, look at what crawled out from underneath its stone again!

[dusted]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Malone and Dusted: You guys need to quit yapping like toothless dogs and start providing links to prove your points.

and again, I ask for proof backing all your original points, Dusted.

Nothing but useless, baseless opinions so far.

Not opinions, historical fact.

THE SAUDIS REVIVE THE BLOOD LIBEL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 18, 2002 -- Saudi Arabia has been getting a lot of favorable press these days, thanks to its dubious Middle East "peace" proposal - which clearly seems designed to divert attention from the fact that most of the 9/11 murderers hailed from the desert kingdom.

Indeed, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is being criticized in some circles for being a tad suspicious of the Saudi proposal and its vague promise of a "complete peace" with Israel.

Anyone who wonders why Sharon and other Israelis have their doubts about the Saudis’ true intentions need only ponder a horrific article that appeared last week in the Al-Riyadh newspaper, written by a "professor" at the King Faisal University.

In the piece, Dr. Umayma Ahmad Al-Jalahma revives the centuries-old blood libel against the Jewish people.

Writing about the recent Jewish holiday of Purim, Al-Jalahma declares: "For this holiday, the Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare the holiday pastries. In other words, the practice cannot be carried out as required if human blood is not spilled."

This article goes on to claim that the use of human blood by Jews for their holidays "is a well-established fact, historically and legally, all through history."

(Translations are by the respected Middle East Media Research Institute.)

This isn’t an obscure pedagogue scribbling nonsense for an obscure periodical. It’s a full professor at a Saudi government-controlled university writing a column for a Saudi government-controlled newspaper. (Actually, "government-controlled" applies to pretty much everything in Saudi Arabia.)

Nor is this kind of drivel unique to Saudi Arabia. Last November, Abu Dhabi Television (government-controlled, natch) depicted Sharon as a caped vampire drinking Arab blood.

Meanwhile, Syria’s minister of defense, Mustafa Tlass, has written a book, "The Matzah of Zion," which describes how Syrian Jews in 1840 supposedly murdered an Arab boy before Passover in order to use his blood.

Last year, an Egyptian producer was reportedly making a movie from the book.

Why is it that none of these incidents - especially the most recent Saudi article - has earned coverage in the mainstream news media?

They beg the question of why Israel should be expected to accept guarantees of "complete peace" or "normalization of relations" from such people.

And it makes us wonder why Washington would consider enlisting governments that engage in such outrageous filth as allies in a war against evil.

---------------------

It is historical fact that Mohammed expelled the Jews from Arabia, and that he said on his death bed, "No two religions shall exist together in Arabia"

The blood libel of Syria in 1840 is historical fact.

That Jews were expelled from the Muslim countries is historical fact.

You just don't want to believe its true, because that would make you have to rethink your position.

[malone]

Malone and Dusted: You guys need to quit yapping like toothless dogs and start providing links to prove your points.

Why would you want more links?? Since this discussion began Dusted has provided an abundance of links. You cannot be unaware of this fact. This is unbelievable. And to what avail? You turn around and pretend, not that they were unreliable, mind you, but that they were never furnished in the first place. Now you want more of the same? Get a grip!! Go back and check those out before you make your desperate, pathetic claims. Is this how you conduct a discussion? Look , if you're ignorant of this topic then that's too bad -- you shouln't be discussung it then, as if you have something to offer. But clearly you'd prefer to be wrong, than be quiet. Your absence from this thread has been your most worthwile contribution so far. I have been contented for the most part to expose the bs in post like yours, cited above. And my source? Well, the horse's mouth. And while we're on the subject why don't you read a book or ten . Like it's my bloody job to baby sit you. Come on.

[malone]

It is historical fact that Mohammed expelled the Jews from Arabia, and that he said on his death bed, "No two religions shall exist together in Arabia"

The blood libel of Syria in 1840 is historical fact.

That Jews were expelled from the Muslim countries is historical fact.

You just don't want to believe its true, because that would make you have to rethink your position.

Come on now, Dusted. You cannot be taking this guy seriously. You must be sleep--deprived. This blowhard doesn't have an intellectual leg to stand on. He claims to need links, when he really needs to have his head examined. Almost all of your previous posts contained links and sources. Now, this clown saunters in, all high and mighty, demanding that he not be kept in the dark any longer, as he can't stand not knowing what in Jehovah's name we're talking about. And, as he hasn't the wit or inclination to find out for himself, or even to check the multidude of sources you already offered, he just will not accept a thing you say until you do that which you have already done over and over, one more time. One has to wonder where's his head, though I have a pretty good idea. He'd have to rethink his position, you say, Dusted?? That implies he's already given some THOUGHT to his position. And that's way too generous.

[dusted]

Originally posted by spacemanspiff

You must be on crack. McGill is a University in Canada - Do you think that they are lying even though they have nothing at stake?

Btw if the Palestinians have no refugee rights because they are 1 or 2 generations removed from being displaced from their homeland, how do jews have refugee rights even though they were displaced hundreds of generations ago?

If you can't see the bias in that website, then there's no hope for you. They are clearly not a disinterested party.

[dusted]

Come on now, Dusted. You cannot be taking this guy seriously. You must be sleep--deprived. This blowhard doesn't have an intellectual leg to stand on. He claims to need links, when he really needs to have his head examined. Almost all of your previous posts contained links and sources. Now, this clown saunters in, all high and mighty, demanding that he not be kept in the dark any longer, as he can't stand not knowing what in Jehovah's name we're talking about. And, as he hasn't the wit or inclination to find out for himself, or even to check the multidude of sources you already offered, he just will not accept a thing you say until you do that which you have already done over and over, one more time. One has to wonder where's his head, though I have a pretty good idea. He'd have to rethink his position, you say, Dusted?? That implies he's already given some THOUGHT to his position. And that's way too generous.

You're right, Malone. It is really frustrating having a discussion like this with people who don't know anything. They rant and rave like hysterical women, and when you give them some cold hard ugly facts, they stick their heads in the sand like ostriches, and refuse to believe it. The Arabs must be laughing their heads off at how easy it is to fool people into thinking that they are the ones who have had it so bad!

You know that old saying, "if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"? I think that applies here. See, hardly anyone knows anything about this subject, so its easy to feed them lies, how are they gonna know?

These people can't even recognize blatant propaganda when they see it. The website says something to the effect of "the center for Palestinian rights", and they don't think its biased. They wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit them on the ass. Sad, sad, sad.

[malone]

US urges Saudis, other Arabs to halt anti-Jewish incitement in media

The United States called on Saudi Arabia and other Arab governments to stop media reports that incite hatred of Jews, urging them to act in the interest of Israeli-Palestinian peace.

Washington said Arab leaders should do more for the ailing peace process than back Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz's proposal which envisions Arab recognition for Israel in exchange for full Israeli withdrawal from Arab lands occupied in the 1967 Middle East War.

In an official US government editorial that began airing Monday on the Voice of America (VOA), the United States said the crown prince's idea called "attention to the need to do everything possible to help end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

"In the meantime, there is something that Saudi Arabia, and other Arab countries, could do right now to ease tensions in the Middle East," the editorial said.

"They could stop newspapers and radio and television stations, especially those controlled by the state, from inciting hatred and violence against Jews."

The editorial said the message was sparked by a March 10 column in Saudi Arabia's Al-Riyadh newspaper in which the author repeated the long-disproved theory that Jews use the blood of Christians and Muslims in pastries they prepare for religious holidays.

"This is, of course, the infamous 'blood libel', a centuries-old anti-Semitic lie that has been used repeatedly to stir hatred against Jews," the editorial said, calling the columnist's accusations "preposterous."

"No one who is not blinded by hate for Jews could ever believe such nonsense," it said, adding that identifying the author as a doctor from a prominent Saudi university "helps to make her lies sound credible."

"Surely, this is not the way to promote peace between Arabs and Jews."

This is the kind of material that Jews have to endure in the middle east, and evidently, have always had to contend with. This is also the material that has elicited a deafening silence from the pro-Arab crowd on this board. Complicity through silence, I suppose it's called. Or maybe just plain too embarrasing for words. And this guy is part of the educated elite?? Is it any wonder these morons believe the Jews or the CIA carried out 9/11? I wonder why, given that so many in that part of the world believe the Jews were behind 9/11, that they celebrate it so wildly?? I would have thought the Jewish involvment would have turned them off.

[dusted]

Originally posted by malone

This is the kind of material that Jews have to endure in the middle east, and evidently, have always had to contend with. This is also the material that has elicited a deafening silence from the pro-Arab crowd on this board. Complicity through silence, I suppose it's called. Or maybe just plain too embarrasing for words. And this guy is part of the educated elite?? Is it any wonder these morons believe the Jews or the CIA carried out 9/11? I wonder why, given that so many in that part of the world believe the Jews were behind 9/11, that they celebrate it so wildly?? I would have thought the Jewish involvment would have turned them off.

"Deafening silence" is right. Where did they all go? I would have thought that Sassa or Breaksny would have come to the Arabs defence.

Their problem is that they look at everything from a Western perspective, so its impossible for them to believe that people could actually be this backward, savage, ignorant and uncivilized.

[Guest tillyandme]

we should ahve let israel fight for themselves fuck the middle east......its the casue of the worlds problems....The mecca of hell.

[malone]

You're right, Malone. It is really frustrating having a discussion like this with people who don't know anything. They rant and rave like hysterical women, and when you give them some cold hard ugly facts, they stick their heads in the sand like ostriches, and refuse to believe it. The Arabs must be laughing their heads off at how easy it is to fool people into thinking that they are the ones who have had it so bad!

You know that old saying, "if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"? I think that applies here. See, hardly anyone knows anything about this subject, so its easy to feed them lies, how are they gonna know?

These people can't even recognize blatant propaganda when they see it. The website says something to the effect of "the center for Palestinian rights", and they don't think its biased. They wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit them on the ass. Sad, sad, sad.

These people can't recognize blatant propaganda? I don't see it that way. They have been extremely diligent in the avoidance of any information that might challenge their perspective. That's willful ignorance, and has nothing to do with falling for propaganda. You see, they have made their minds up about how the world is. They then seek out only sources of information that will reinforce those views. Before long they are the ones proselytizing in behalf of their cause. By now they are like cult members. If you disagree with them, they viciously attack in a personal way. They have a large store of choice labels that are then used to silence critics of their views: racist, bigot, fascist, are but a few that spring to mind. In many cases this does the job, so they become reliant on it. Nobody wants their character dragged through the mud in this vile manner, so they decide it's not worth the trouble. You and I , Dusted , have endured this scurrilous tactict throughout these discussions. As we have not been fooled, or diverted by these enemies of free thought, they have been exposed for the vacuous windbags that they are. Their position on the middle east, as on so much else, turns out to be nothing more than the party line. Orwell, himself a lefty, must be turning in his grave to see how the left has been utterly corrupted. As Stalin said: "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns; why should we let them have ideas?"

[breaksny]

I'm just bored of the load of wank these threads always become and sassa's on vacation. But carry on, since you will anyway.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by malone

Why would you want more links?? Since this discussion began Dusted has provided an abundance of links. You cannot be unaware of this fact. This is unbelievable. And to what avail? You turn around and pretend, not that they were unreliable, mind you, but that they were never furnished in the first place. Now you want more of the same? Get a grip!! Go back and check those out before you make your desperate, pathetic claims. Is this how you conduct a discussion? Look , if you're ignorant of this topic then that's too bad -- you shouln't be discussung it then, as if you have something to offer. But clearly you'd prefer to be wrong, than be quiet. Your absence from this thread has been your most worthwile contribution so far. I have been contented for the most part to expose the bs in post like yours, cited above. And my source? Well, the horse's mouth. And while we're on the subject why don't you read a book or ten . Like it's my bloody job to baby sit you. Come on.

Sorry Malone, but the links he's provided so far don't mean shit....most of the time they're just opinions, and the one or two times he HAS posted an article its so blatantly pro-Israeli thats its not even funny.

SO, we are back to square one...back to yap, yap, yap!

Yap yap yap yap!

You guys are contributing as much as a monkey contributes to quantum physics.

Malone: I see all you have now are verbal insults. Hehehe....that in itself tells me that you cannot back up your facts with solid links.

What do you work for - the Mossad???

[igloo]

ravermania..

Does your bullshit tank ever hit empty?

[kramadas]

Originally posted by igloo

ravermania..

Does your bullshit tank ever hit empty?

Yap yap yap!

[kramadas]

Originally posted by malone

These people can't recognize blatant propaganda? I don't see it that way. They have been extremely diligent in the avoidance of any information that might challenge their perspective. That's willful ignorance, and has nothing to do with falling for propaganda. You see, they have made their minds up about how the world is. They then seek out only sources of information that will reinforce those views. Before long they are the ones proselytizing in behalf of their cause. By now they are like cult members. If you disagree with them, they viciously attack in a personal way. They have a large store of choice labels that are then used to silence critics of their views: racist, bigot, fascist, are but a few that spring to mind. In many cases this does the job, so they become reliant on it. Nobody wants their character dragged through the mud in this vile manner, so they decide it's not worth the trouble. You and I , Dusted , have endured this scurrilous tactict throughout these discussions. As we have not been fooled, or diverted by these enemies of free thought, they have been exposed for the vacuous windbags that they are. Their position on the middle east, as on so much else, turns out to be nothing more than the party line. Orwell, himself a lefty, must be turning in his grave to see how the left has been utterly corrupted. As Stalin said: "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns; why should we let them have ideas?"

Amazing how you describe yourself and Dusted!

Back to that UN link I posted. Can you refute anything in there?

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpalnew/overview.htm

Here's a little definition for you two:

Main Entry: big·ot

Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot

Date: 1661

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective

- big·ot·ed·ly adverb

Here's a little bit on Israel's racial profiling:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,668526,00.html

Another interesting read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,667640,00.html