dusted

It SUCKS! It is so awful, its like being at a rock concert. It closes at around 4-ish, the security are assholes, the sound blows, the people just stand around and watch like its a concert. it just sucks ass. To tell you the truth, I'm getting pretty sick of Sasha and Digweed. What is the big fucking deal about getting them? They play in europe for peanuts, then they want all kinds of crazy money here. I think we in NY should give them the cold shoulder, cause I'm pretty sure IF they come here, its gonna be at least 50 bucks. I say fuck them. Personally, if this doesn't shape up soon, I'm just gonna go to Sven Vath. I think it will be more fun. This business of spending so much money to see a dj is just getting out of hand, and I find that the less money you spend the more fun you have, and when you spend a lot, you don't have fun, you just feel like you were raped. The whole S+D thing is really turning me off.

Thats because you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. I haven't heard many Muslims condemning suicide bombers. Certainly none of their leaders have. The subject has gotten a lukewarm response at best from most Muslims. Now, you are saying that there's no difference between a legitimate army defending itself against terrorist enemies who want to destroy them, and terrorists who DELIBERATELY attack civilians of a nation in the hopes of wearing down that countries morale and will to exist? Basically, you think legitimate armies are the moral equivalent to terrorists.

Maybe its not considered suicide when its in the service of Allah. And of course, killing non-Muslims is always in vogue.

Kill a Jew for Allah National Review | 3/22/02 | John Derbyshire I recently got a long, carefully composed e-mail from a reader, who begged me to circulate it among "other opinion-formers." It laid out a plan for peace in the Middle East. The writer, obviously an intelligent and well-informed person, had composed the e-mail with great care. With some passion, too — he really wants to find a solution to the Israel-Arab problem. Here was a public-spirited person doing his citizenly best to promote an idea that, he fervently believed, would put an end to the horrors. And what was that idea? In a nutshell: The U.S. should lean hard on Israel to abandon the Jewish settlements in Arab land — i.e. beyond Israel's pre-1967 borders. These settlements (my reader argued) were the root cause of all the strife. Closing them down would remove the main casus belli; and the good faith shown by this act would open the eyes of the Arabs to the fact that peace with Israel is possible. The logjam would be broken. I don't know what to say to people like this. Obviously they are decent, good citizens. Obviously they are trying their best — trying to be constructive, to give some hope to the world. How do I tell them what I feel? Which is, that they are floating in orbit between Uranus and Neptune — inhabiting some place that does not touch the real world at any point. Look: Possibly there would be some abstract justice in closing down the settlements, I don't know. I don't see it myself, I must admit. Why should Jews not live among Arabs? Lots of Arabs live in Israel, and do very well there. There are rich Israeli Arabs; there are Israeli-Arab pop stars and comedians; there are Israeli-Arab intellectuals, teachers, writers, businessmen, athletes. Why, when the whole thing gets sorted out, should there not be Jews living in Arab territory — as there were for centuries past? What, exactly, is wrong with the settlements? I don't see it. But, okay, let's suppose there is some valid moral objection to the existence of the settlements; and let's suppose my reader's plan were to be carried out, and all the settlements were removed, their populations transferred back to metropolitan Israel, their buildings razed, their fields ploughed with salt. Does anybody think it would make a damn bit of difference? There was no such thing as settlements, no such thing as "occupied territories," before the 1967 war. There were no such things in 1960, for example, when Adolf Eichmann was abducted from his hiding-hole in Buenos Aires by Israeli secret agents, an event recorded by Saudi Arabia's principal government-controlled newspaper as: "ARREST OF EICHMANN, WHO HAD THE HONOR OF KILLING 6 MILLION JEWS". The problem of the Middle East is not the settlements. It is not this piece of land or that piece. It is not the Golan Heights or East Jerusalem or Temple Mount. It is not oil, or land, or water, or history, or geography, or metaphysics. The problem is in plain sight. You know what the problem is, and so do I. The problem is that the Middle East hates the Jews. I say "the Middle East" because I don't know any more precise way to say it. You can't say "the Arabs" (though of course the Arabs hate the Jews more than anyone), because the Iranians and the Pakistanis and the Berbers of North Africa hate the Jews too, and they are not Arabs. You can't say "the Muslims". That is a lot closer, I think, and there surely cannot be much doubt that institutional Islam is riddled with Jew-hatred. Still, Malaysia is a Muslim country, and they don't hate the Jews, except in a go-along, pro forma sort of way, to keep on good terms with the Saudis and Gulf Emirs. And I am sure, before you write to tell me, that lots of people in the Middle East don't hate the Jews. Lots of Arabs, millions probably, don't hate the Jews. Probably lots of non-Arab Muslims don't hate the Jews, either. Yet it's hard to avoid the impression, from reading the MEMRI translations, from looking at the kinds of things taught in schools all over the Middle East (and in Islamic schools here in the U.S.A. — see below), from listening to the pronouncements of Middle East politicians (remember the Syrian foreign minister explaining to the Pope — to the Pope! — that: "When I see a Jew in front of me, I kill him"?) and from random conversations with New York cab drivers, that visceral, murderous Jew-hatred is awfully widespread among Arabs, Pakistanis, Iranians, and North Africans. Awfully widespread. In between getting that e-mail and answering it, I did two unrelated things, by way of my daily work. One was to prepare an editorial snippet for the print National Review about Islamic schools here in the U.S., based on a long study in the Washington Post of February 25th. There are estimated to be between 200 and 600 private Islamic day schools in the U.S., with up to 30,000 students in attendance. They use textbooks imported from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. One in use at the Islamic Saudi Academy in suburban Virginia instructs readers that a sure sign of the Day of Judgment will be that Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say: "Oh Muslim, Oh servant of God, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him." School authorities did some fast damage control when the Post confronted them (as the Saudis are doing over the now-famous Blood Libel article). The textbooks are in process of being replaced with special versions more suitable for American students, they assured us, with the kill-a-Jew-for-Allah stuff left out. Presumably that stuff remains untouched back home in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Libya,... Their kiddies will get the right message, you can be sure: "What do you mean, you don't hate Jews? Look, even the blessed trees hate them!" The other thing I did was read Jeffrey Goldberg's article about Saddam Hussein in The New Yorker (titled "The Great Terror" in the 3/25/02 issue). "Iraqi dissidents agree that Iraq's programs to build weapons of mass destruction are focused on Israel. 'Israel is the whole game,' Ahmad Chalabi, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress, told me. .... "[saddam] thinks he can kill one hundred thousand Israelis in a day with biological weapons....' Students of Iraq and its government generally agree that Saddam would like to project himself as leader of all the Arabs, and that the only sure way to do that is by confronting Israel." Seems to me, from what I read and hear, that those students are quite right: That by "confronting Israel" via killing a hundred thousand Israelis in a day, Saddam would win the hearts of the entire Arab world, and of the Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghans and North Africans, too. (Does Hamid Karzai, Washington's new darling, hate Jews? Has anyone asked him?) I am sure Saddam himself believes this to be the case, and he is, with all his endearing little character flaws, a man who knows something about the Arab mentality. It is not too difficult to envisage a plan by which the spoken grievances of the Arabs against Israel could be addressed, and some compromise struck. The chancelleries of the world — including Israel's — are in fact full of such plans, drawn up with loving care by legions of diplomats, experts, politicians, ambassadors, scholars and private do-gooders like my reader, across decades of time. In an atmosphere of goodwill, and genuine desire for a solution, the Palestine circle could be squared. You'd just have to pull one of those plans down from the shelf, blow the dust off it, and say: "Let's take this for a starting point, shall we?" The circle is not going to be squared though — not by George W. Bush, not by my e-mail pal with his elaborate scheme to shut down the settlements, not by another round of "shuttle diplomacy," not by any amount of work on a "peace process". It isn't going to be, because there is no goodwill, and no real desire on the part of Israel's enemies for a solution. Or rather, there is a widespread desire for only one solution — the extinction of Israel and the driving out, or mass killing, of the Jews. That's what they want, the Middle East; that's all they want. I don't think we should be sending diplomats to the Middle East. I think we should be sending teams of psychiatrists. This is a diseased culture, a sick culture. Go back to that disgraceful recycling of the Blood Libel in the Saudi press. Do you think anyone in that newspaper's readership thought there was anything odd about it, anything deplorable about it, anything untrue about it? I don't think so. To the newspaper readers of Saudi Arabia, it was routine stuff, a statement of the obvious. If MEMRI hadn't brought it to the attention of the civilized world, do you think the Saudi authorities would have bothered about it? Do you think, even now, they really have a clue what all the fuss is about? Of course the Jews use gentile blood to make their cookies. Doesn't everyone know that? We'd best pretend to be shocked, though. Those Americans are so-o-o sensitive! We are dealing here with people who are, not to put too fine a point on it, nuts. The Arabs, the Iranians, the Pakis, the Libyans: they are nuts, the great majority of them. Nuts. Not playing with a full deck. Not too tightly wrapped. One brick short of a load, one coupon short of a toaster. The smoke not going all the way up the chimney. Not quite 16 annas to the rupee. Nuts. Is there anything we can do about it? Only what Peggy Noonan told us to do in her brilliant Wall Street Journal piece last week: Do what you do when you find yourself in a roomful of glittering-eyed lunatics down at the local funny farm. Keep smiling, talk softly, don't make any sudden moves, keep nodding and smiling, and keep a tight hand on the stun gun in your pocket. The Middle East contains three hundred million people, and most of them are crazy as coots. Glad I don't live there.

Thanks for your helpful input. it really shed new light on the subject. I think Malone and I could really use you on our team.

Tell me, if Islam says kill all Jews, how is it the Quran says that Muslim men can marry Jewish and Christian women? ------------------- So as to facilitate the spread of Islam, by bringing up the children born of such a marriage as Muslims. (and in all probability, forcibly convert the woman to Islam) The Muslims, unlike the Jews, spread their religion in a large measure by conquest and conversion, thats why there are so many Muslims in the world, even though Islam is a comparatively young religion. It was common for Muslims to steal Jewish children and bring them up as Muslims, for they don't care one whit if the person was actually "born" a Muslim But answer this: What does the Koran say about Muslim women marrying Christian or Jewish men, and bringing their children up as Christians or Jews? Is that allowed?

Regarding my other points about oppression of Arab people living in Israel....any comment? --------------- Yes. Lifes a bitch. They are free to leave, renounce their Israeli citizenship and go live in an Arab country, where they will be treated like A-1, first class citizens, with human rights for all.

I'm close to the end of my patience with the two of you bigots (again, pls refer to the definition of bigot I posted before). In my view, the killings on both sides are wrong and parties like Islamic Jihad and Hamas need to be disintegrated and/or jailed. However, the atrocities committed by the IDF also has to stop, and atrocities they are. And its about time they started treating their own citizens equally, without seizing arab owned land for "nature preserves", spraying toxic chemicals on crops, or otherwise oppressing the rights of Israeli Arabs -------------------- OOh I'm scared. :laugh: So who is going to be the one to "disintegrate" or "jail" Islamic Jihad and Hamas? Hmmm? How do you find them, when they are hiding out amongst the regular PA's? Israel would be pretty damn stupid to let Arabs, even Israeli Arabs in their army at this time, don't you think? That's a pretty ludicrous statement. Maybe some day when the "troubles" are over, but not now. At this time, and this is all the fault of the Arabs, the Arabs are considered enemies, it doesn't matter that they are citizens. They are free to go it they want to, they don't have to stay. Why is it that you are more concerned with the way Arabs are treated in Israel than you are with the way Arabs are treated in Arab countries? Where do your statistics concerning the 80 percent of Palestinian land being taken by the Israelis come from? You have records of which people owned plots of land? Please post this information. I want to check these statistics out. As far as your last statement, about the Israeli Arabs "rising up" against their Jewish oppressors, what a load of cak. The biggest problem Israel has is with the "refugees" not the citizens. If the Arabs weren't so hostile to Israel in general, from the very beginning, they wouldn't have these problems. As it is, the Israel Arabs have it better than say, the Afghans, or the Arabs from other countries, so I don't know what their complaining about. Now, I have refuted many of your claims in previous posts, I would like you to acknowledge that. If I have to post anti Jewish quotes from the Koran and the Hadith, I will. But I think you should realize that Islam is as Islam does, and the persecution of Jews in Muslim countries was done in the name of Islam and continues to be done in the name of Islam today. Israel is about as secular a state as any of these Muslims will ever see, my friend, and I can guarantee, if the PA ever gets their own state it will be neither secular nor remotely democratic, as the Arabs have no history of either. And you have failed to answer the question of why the link you posted left out the very important fact that it was the Arabs that rejected the 2 independent states. Don't you know the answer?

Is it me, or is it just patently obvious that breaksny=raver-mania=Sassa=sonicinfusion=bigpopponils? :laugh:

Actually, all religion is mythology. But seriously, what makes you such an expert on what the "overwhelming majority" or Muslims think? Did you go out and interview them? Oh, and in what way are the Christian and Jewish prophets part of the Muslim religious traditions?

Thats all he can say, Malone. As to my post about Mohammad, what did I say that wasn't true? Point it out to me. Just because the Muslims recognize the existence of other religions, doesn't mean that they are tolerant of them. What makes you such an expert on Islam? Hanging around with Sassa? :laugh: Its very easy to whine "lies all lies"!, but it doesn't mean shit unless you point out something specific, and actually refute it, which you have failed miserably at doing. Perhaps you can explain why the Saudi government-run newspapers are running these "blood libel" stories. Obviously, they expect that their readers (the literate Muslims) will believe it. Or am I lying about that? Are you denying that Mohammad massacred the Jews? Are you denying that he expelled the Jews from Arabia? Are you denying that the Jews were subjugated in Muslim countries and subject to plundering, special taxes, and occasional slaughter? If so please prove me wrong, I would like to be educated.

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The Jews are in fact, indigenous to Palestine. Palestine was called Judea in ancient times, and their have always been Jews there. Jews started immigrating in large numbers in the late 1800's, not the early 1900's like you said. You failed to answer my question as to why the link you provided avoided mentioning that the Arabs rejected the UNs plan to have 2 separate states, one Jewish, one Arab. Why are you refusing to answer that question? The "occupied territories" are disputed territories, and I don't see what is so illegal about the settlements. Please explain, what law the Jews are breaking by settling there. These refugee camps and the whole PA territories are all harboring terrorists, which is why Israel does what it does. I am not going to start quoting Koranic scriptures. It is patently obvious that the Koran is against Jews. Mohammad massacred the Jews in Arabia, and drove out the ones that still remained. Jews are not allowed in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc. The Saudi government is STILL spreading the lies of the "blood libels" in their government run newspapers. The fact that the Jews were subjugated, and had to pay special taxes, and were slaughtered by Muslims, makes it very clear that the Muslims were against the Jews (and the christians too) Now, what I am saying, is that Palestine was a land that in essence, did not belong to anyone in particular, it was never a sovereign nation, it was depopulated, and the Jews decided to build a homeland there. The Arabs refused to let it happen, for what reason I don't know. Israel is a secular state, it was not necessary for it to be 100 percent Jewish. So, why do you think the Arabs were so against it? Give us your educated opinion, since you know so much about it. I want an answer. Why did the Arabs reject the UN plan?

The question was meant for you, dickhead. What do you think the Israelis have against the Arabs?

Repeat after me people: IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB TO LEGISLATE MORALITY! IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB TO RAISE PEOPLES KIDS FOR THEM! Jesus, if they spent as much energy teaching kids how to read and do math,as they do with this bullshit, maybe the American populace wouldn't be so damn ignorant.

So basically, you believe that the government, via the public schools should have the right to intrude on the privacy of the students, who do not have the option of "opting out" of school. You support the fact that the Constitution does not apply to minors. And you support the notion of the government socially engineering people and the government superceding parental discretion. So do you believe in freedom at all? Doesn't sound like it.

---------------------------- I can refute this too: The Palestinian people were not "indigenous" to Palestine. They were just ordinary garden variety Arabs, who immigrated to the region due to the fact that the Jews were bringing economic opportunity to it. They came from places like Egypt (where Arafat is from) and other places. They were not, as they like to claim, on the land for generations, from time immemorial. That is a lie. In the mid 1800's, due to corrupt Turkish rule, Arab plundering, natural disaster, and other reasons, Palestine was a desert area, with no farms or any agriculture, and was extremely depopulated. When the Jews started leaving the Arab countries to go to Palestine in large numbers in the late 1800's, thats when large numbers of Arabs started going too. Furthermore, a person is considered by UNRWA to be a "Palestinian refugee" if they were living in Palestine in the years 1946-1948. Now thats hardly indigenous, is it? A person just blows in in '48 from Egypt, and now is a "Palestinian refugee" Please. And you can check this fact out on the UNRWA website.

Thats all you have absorbed out of this entire thread and others, that I don't like Muslims? Pathetic. Telling the truth is now considered hatred? Why did that link you provided leave out the fact that the Arabs rejected 2 separate partitioned states? Why did they leave that out?

You can say it all you want. It doesn't change a thing. Is that all you have to add? Heres a question for you, why do you think Jews hate the Arabs so much?

Well, on the first link, it conveniently leaves out that when they were going to partition the land into two states, it was the Arabs that rejected the plan, since they were against the creation of a Jewish state. Why did it leave that out? Now, to be honest, I don't feel the need to comment on these other links. You have nothing to add to this discussion. I couldn't care less if you think I am a bigot. It doesn't mean I am not right. You on the other hand, know absolutely NOTHING about this topic, so really I suggest you go read some actual books, rather than propaganda websites, and brush up on your knowledge, instead of embarrassing yourself all over message boards.

"Deafening silence" is right. Where did they all go? I would have thought that Sassa or Breaksny would have come to the Arabs defence. Their problem is that they look at everything from a Western perspective, so its impossible for them to believe that people could actually be this backward, savage, ignorant and uncivilized.

If you can't see the bias in that website, then there's no hope for you. They are clearly not a disinterested party.

Not opinions, historical fact. THE SAUDIS REVIVE THE BLOOD LIBEL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 18, 2002 -- Saudi Arabia has been getting a lot of favorable press these days, thanks to its dubious Middle East "peace" proposal - which clearly seems designed to divert attention from the fact that most of the 9/11 murderers hailed from the desert kingdom. Indeed, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is being criticized in some circles for being a tad suspicious of the Saudi proposal and its vague promise of a "complete peace" with Israel. Anyone who wonders why Sharon and other Israelis have their doubts about the Saudis’ true intentions need only ponder a horrific article that appeared last week in the Al-Riyadh newspaper, written by a "professor" at the King Faisal University. In the piece, Dr. Umayma Ahmad Al-Jalahma revives the centuries-old blood libel against the Jewish people. Writing about the recent Jewish holiday of Purim, Al-Jalahma declares: "For this holiday, the Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare the holiday pastries. In other words, the practice cannot be carried out as required if human blood is not spilled." This article goes on to claim that the use of human blood by Jews for their holidays "is a well-established fact, historically and legally, all through history." (Translations are by the respected Middle East Media Research Institute.) This isn’t an obscure pedagogue scribbling nonsense for an obscure periodical. It’s a full professor at a Saudi government-controlled university writing a column for a Saudi government-controlled newspaper. (Actually, "government-controlled" applies to pretty much everything in Saudi Arabia.) Nor is this kind of drivel unique to Saudi Arabia. Last November, Abu Dhabi Television (government-controlled, natch) depicted Sharon as a caped vampire drinking Arab blood. Meanwhile, Syria’s minister of defense, Mustafa Tlass, has written a book, "The Matzah of Zion," which describes how Syrian Jews in 1840 supposedly murdered an Arab boy before Passover in order to use his blood. Last year, an Egyptian producer was reportedly making a movie from the book. Why is it that none of these incidents - especially the most recent Saudi article - has earned coverage in the mainstream news media? They beg the question of why Israel should be expected to accept guarantees of "complete peace" or "normalization of relations" from such people. And it makes us wonder why Washington would consider enlisting governments that engage in such outrageous filth as allies in a war against evil. --------------------- It is historical fact that Mohammed expelled the Jews from Arabia, and that he said on his death bed, "No two religions shall exist together in Arabia" The blood libel of Syria in 1840 is historical fact. That Jews were expelled from the Muslim countries is historical fact. You just don't want to believe its true, because that would make you have to rethink your position.

It all depends on how many buy backs I got.