dusted

No, you didn't see what I wrote, since I didn't use the word "anti-Semitic". You saw what you wanted to see. Is that all you have to say about the post? I would have thought that you, the resident expert on all things Islamic, would have had more to say. Why aren't you ripping my post apart? Come on! Surely, everything I wrote must have been lies, right?

In my opinion, Sasha and Digweed are getting a little big for their britches. Who do they think they are anyway? They better watch out or they're gonna turn everyone off, with these "tours" (are they dj's or a rock group?) and ridiculous ticket prices. They should remember where they came from. A few short years ago you could hear them at Twilo for 15 bucks. Now they think they're worth 60? Get bent. There are too many quality up and coming djs who don't charge insulting obnoxious prices, and who you don't have to buy tickets in advance to see. Having to buy tickets in advance ruins the whole spontaneity of the thing. Back in the day, sometimes I would just be in a bar, and 4 o clock would roll around, and me and my friends would just decide at the spur of the moment to go to Twilo, and it was a lot more fun that way, than planning the whole thing out in advance. Its really obnoxious the way S+D are trying to "conquer the American market", as if they're a couple of marketing execs, with pie charts and graphs in their office. Did they really think they were going to compete with Ultra? Puhleeze. They better come back down to reality.

Funny, you took your Israeli figures from a CIA website, but you took your refugee figures from a Palestinian rights website. I wonder what the Palestinian websites say about Jewish refugees from Arab lands? You really can't count most of these people as being truly refugees, since the majority of them were born afterwards. The majority of them are due to the population expanding. That would be like saying all the Jews in the United States now are "Holocaust refugees". Did it ever occur to you that these people have lots of kids in order to make their numbers higher?

On the contrary, I think you are anti-Israel, judging by your post. 1. The reason there are no Jews in Arab countries, is because they all fled for their lives or were expelled, as noted in my above post. Half the population of Israel are Jews that came from Arab countries. Israel, a tiny little nation, took all of them in, and continues to take in any Jew, from anywhere in the world. The Jews take care of their own, in contrast to the Arabs, who let their people languish in camps to use them for Anti-Jewish political purposes. 2. It is their responsibility actually, since they started the war against Israel that caused all these refugees.(And subsequent wars, which yielded even more refugees) If you'll notice, the Arabs who did not flee Israel during the War of Independence, are now Israeli citizens. 3. What kind of message does it send to the Arabs, if they continuously make war on Israel, but theres no price to pay for it? That violence will achieve their ends? The Arabs keep making war, and everytime, Israel has to take back the "refugees", and give back all the land it takes in the course of these wars? Don't you think that sends the message that its ok to attack Israel, since theres no consequences?

I don't know where to start here. Number 1, if you would read more carefully, you would see that I specifically said "Jew hater" and not "anti Semitic", since I anticipated your silly hairsplitting response. Nevertheless, Malone should have set you straight on the meaning of "anti-Semitic" I trust you won't trot that one out again. Secondly, the thing that Tribal posted about the Jews using the Muslim blood was propagated by the Saudi Government, and is nothing more than a continuation of the infamous "Blood Libels" that have occurred from time to time in Arab countries, such as the one in Syria in 1840 that brought about the death torture, and pillage of countless Jews falsely acacused of murdering a priest and his servant to collect the blood for Passover matzo. These "blood libels" were not isolated incidents, and as we can see, they have been resurrected by the Saudis. Now, you want to talk about pogroms? Ok, let's. After the Jews who lived in what is now Saudi Arabia were expelled or destroyed by the Prophet Mohammad, Jewish communities in all the Muslim territories fell under "infidel" status; as such they were considered inferior. In Adan in December 1947, caused in part by anti-Jewish broadcasts from Egypt, there was a devastating pogram, in which 82 Jews were murdered and 76 wounded, approximately 100 shops were robbed, 4 synagogues were burned down, and a 200 Jewish homes were burned or robbed. For months after, the Jews were terrified to venture out of the "Jewish Quarter" Thousands of Aden Jews were airlifted out of there to Israel after that. After the Six-day War, the remainder of them fled with the help of the British, when they discovered that the Arabs were planning to massacre what remained of them. In Iraq, in 1941, following general violence against Jews(murders by mobs, bombs in synagogues, etc) a massacre occurred in which hundreds of Jews were killed. Hundreds more were wounded, and over a thousand Jewish homes and business looted and destroyed. From that time on, it seems there was a program of systematically destroying the Jewish community. Jews suffered torture, imprisonment without charge etc. After Israels war of independance, Zionism became a capital crime, and Jews were publicly hanged in the center of Baghdad. The Jews were also stripped of millions of dollars by the government, through "voluntary donations" , appropriation of property, etc. By the time 1950 rolled around, most of Iraqs 130,000 Jews had fled to Israel and other places. There were numerous "blood libels" in Egypt, and starting in the 1940's, there were many organized anti-Jewish riots, and about 20,000 Jews fled. During the Six Day War, Jews were arrested and put in concentration camps where they were abused and tortured. By 1970, most of Egypts 75,000 Jews had left for Israel. In Morrocco, Jews were forced to live in separate ghettos. Rapes and looting, burning of synagogues, murder, were common. In 1032, 6000 Jews were murdered, in 1146, 100,000 killed. In 1948, there was more anti-Jewish violence, resulting in many deaths. But around 1960, 200,000 Morroccan Jews had fled to Israel. Now, I can go on and on, but I hope it's not necessary. I haven't even mentioned the regular, daily humiliations suffered by the Jews at the hands of the Muslims, such as special taxes, no right to testify against a Muslim, the fact that Jews had to always defer to Muslims, and the general subjugation to Muslims. Hopefully, you will come to see, eventually, that this idea you have about Jews being treated well in Muslim countries, is pure fantasy, fantasy that is being spread by Arab propagandists. For if you want to know if a country is good or not, just check out which way the people are going. Hundreds of thousands of people don't just give up everything and leave a country, unless the conditions are intolerable. All those Jews didn't leave for no reason. You don't see that many American Jews fleeing to Israel, because theres no reason to. And one more thing, Jews are not religious zealots. Jews do not prosyletize, do not try to convert, they just want to be left alone to be Jews. You cannot say the same for Muslims. The entire history of Islam from the get-go has been replete with aggression, conquest and forced conversions. Any religious zealotry on display is coming from Islam, not Judaism. So please, try to get your facts straight next time.

He pulls his "facts" out of his ass.

I don't really care if you think I'm arrogant. No. your opinion is based on your opinion. It is not a fact that my attitude is arrogant, it is an opinion. It is my opinion, that you are very uninformed and biased as regards this subject, but you don't have any facts to back your opinions up. You keep giving the same opinions over and over. Opinion does not count in a political debate. Opinion is not the same as political or historical analysis. It is hard to analyze a situation when you do not understand the origins of the situation. Obviously, the people on this board don't understand the origins, or they would have taken up the challenge presented to them.

Sweden is a nation. Palestine was NEVER a nation. Most of the so called "Palestinians" were only recent immigrants to the region, from Egypt and other Arab countries. They came there because of the economic opportunity in Palestine.(that the Jews brought) They were NOT there from time immemmorial, like they like to claim. The Jews had JUST as much right to the area. The Arabs started getting irritated at all these Jews, and demanded the British halt all Jewish immigration into Palestine. The Arabs kept starting trouble with the Jews because they thought they were "taking over". The UN wanted to divide the areas into one Jewish and one Palestinian state, with Jerusalem being separate. The Arabs rejected it. When Israel declared independence, all the Arab nations attacked them, hence the "refugees" These refugees have no right to come back to a country that they made war on. A very large portion of them left their homes voluntarily, so that the Arabs could slaughter the Jews more easily. Now, given that Israel has taken in so many Jewish refugees from the Arab nations, leaving a huge gap in these countries, why aren't these Arab nations taking in an equal number of Arab refugees? Why are these refugees, who were not really natives to Palestine, insisting on living there, when they could just be resettled in Arab nations and be with their own people? Furthermore, The State of Israel did not necessarily have to mean that no Muslims could live there, but after they attacked, it certainly did.

1. Don't blame Muslim Jew hating on me. The countries, you list as being so jew-friendly, what are you basing that on? It was my understanding that Jordan does not allow Jews to reside in their country. Do you see anything pertaining to Jews on this site?: Holidays - The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan Find: Hotels Flights Rent-a-Car Fixed Public Holidays 1 January New Year's Day 1 May Labour Day 25 May Independence Day 10 June Army Day 11 August Accession of HM King Hussein 14 November Birthday of HM King Hussein 25 December Christmas (Christians only) 31 December New Year's Eve Moveable Public Holidays Muslim Feast Days 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Islamic New Year 1 8 May 28 Apr 18 Apr 6 Apr 26 Mar 15 Mar 5 Mar 22 Feb Prophet's Birthday 1 17 Jul 7 Jul 26 Jun 15 Jun 4 Jun 25 May 14 May 2 May Lailat al Miraj 1 28 Nov 17 Nov 6 Nov 26 Oct 15 Oct 4 Oct 24 Sep 12 Sep Start of Ramadan (not a holiday) - 11 Jan 31 Dec 20 Dec 9 Dec 27 Nov 17 Nov 6 Nov 27 Oct 15 Oct Eid Al Fitr 3 9 Feb 30 Jan 19 Jan 8 Jan 27 Dec 16 Dec 6 Dec 26 Nov 14 Nov Eid Al Adha 3 18 Apr 8 Apr 28 Mar 17 Mar 6 Mar 23 Feb 12 Feb 2 Feb Christian The Christian minority (about 8%), by convention agreed between the various sects, celebrates the Western Christmas (above) and the Orthodox Palm Sunday, Good Friday and Easter Sunday, which are official holidays for them. Feast 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Palm Sunday 20 Apr 12 Apr 4 Apr 23 Apr 8 Apr 28 Apr 20 Apr 4 Apr Good Friday 25 Apr 17 Apr 9 Apr 28 Apr 13 Apr 3 May 25 Apr 9 Apr Easter 27 Apr 19 Apr 11 Apr 30 Apr 15 Apr 5 May 27 Apr 11 Apr Easter Monday 28 Apr 20 Apr 12 Apr 1 May 16 Apr 6 May 28 Apr 12 Apr Weekend Weekends are now Friday and Saturday. Some Christian businesses may close on Sunday afternoon. Time Zone GMT+2. The clock goes forward 1 hour at midnight on the last Thursday in March and back to normal time at midnight on the last Thursday in September. The time zone data above is from the tz Database, an explanation of which can be found at Sources for Time Zone and Daylight Saving Time Data. Religions Muslim (92%), Christian (Western and Orthodox, 8%) Links ------------------- 2. What do you mean that these countries you mentioned were "already strained by their Afghan refugees" ? The Palestinians have been refugees for decades now! Why haven't they taken them in? Why doesn't Saudi Arabia or Iraq or Egypt take them in? The Saudis certainly can absorb them. why are they taking in Afghans and not Palestinians? Could it be that its all political? HMMMM. 3 Your reasons for the Arabs not taking in their own people are pathetic, the land mass they have and the oil money, does not give them any excuse. Israel took in HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Jews from the Arab countries, when it was only a very young country. Not to mention that Israel is a tiny sliver of a nation compared to the Arab world. Its just no excuse.

The Jewish religion cannot be anti Muslim, since it predates Islam by thousands of years. There are plenty of quotes in the Koran and the Hadith that are anti Jewish. Furthermore, Islam is as Islam does. And Islam has treated Jews horribly, has totally subjugated them, and unltimately, the Islamic countries have pretty much expelled all their Jews. Half the population of Israel, the Sephardic Jews, are Jews that were expelled or fled from Muslim countries.

So basically you are just offering us more opinion, not based on facts. Opinions that you just pulled out of the air. *yawn*

So, no one has been able so far to refute my statements with fact. All they are able to do is offer their stupid opinions, which are based on...nothing I guess, cause no one here has presented any facts. Malone that was a VERY good point you made, about Israels existence being dependent on America. I wish I'd thought of that. What they mean, obviously, is that if America stopped supporting Israel, Israel would be destroyed by the Arabs. But I thought they said the Arabs weren't against the State of Israel?

These were my original points:

1. Name me one Muslim country where Muslims, Jews and Christians get along peacefully. 2.If Israel was able to take in hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees (that fled or were expelled from Arab countries), why can't the Arab countries, with so much bigger land mass, take in the Arab refugees. 3. Basically, your post is really dumb, and you were not able to refute any points I made, backed up with facts. Sorry. Try again. 4. You are so biased towards the Arabs its not even funny, for someone who purports to be so unprejudiced.

Prove me wrong.

When did Osama Bin Laden ever say anything about Israel?

So are you people saying that the Muslim religion is Pro-Jew and Pro-Christian? Please. It IS a fact. If that hurts your feelings, then I'm sorry. If you think its racist and bigoted to point out facts, then thats just one more example of your attempts at thought control, via censorship. And I guess no one here is up to the challenge of refuting the points I made in my first post on this thread, and backing it up with facts. That's what I thought. Instead you've all fallen into your lazy habit of namecalling, when you should be getting out your books, and getting to work. You have all proven, by your avoiding the challenge I have set forth, that none of you have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Actually, most of the worlds wars are nothing but land grabs, religion is just the excuse.

That is NOT the point, you jackass. You know what, I'm extending the challange to you too. Refute all the points I made in my first post, and back it up with facts.

That has NOTHING to do with what I said. WHAT I SAID WAS, that the Muslim religion, is anti-Jew (and anti Christian) It is a FACT. I don't care whether its right or wrong, its still a FACT.

That was proposed in 1947, and the Arabs rejected it. Now, do what I said to do. Challenge every idea in my post, and back it up with facts.

And while you're at it, you can challenge every idea I presented in my post, and back it up with facts.

Now, you tell me, in your own words, how it is that the Arabs have more rights to "Palestine" than the Jews.

This web site is maintained by the Division for Palestinian Rights © United Nations 2001 Webmaster ------------- I think its obvious that its biased, dick.

PS. Is it really a good idea to get all your information from blatantly pro-Arab propaganda websites? After all the people running that site are "the center for Palestinian rights" You don't think they will be biased. Fool.