Why Sharon is Talking and Fighting

[dusted]

Well, on the first link, it conveniently leaves out that when they were going to partition the land into two states, it was the Arabs that rejected the plan, since they were against the creation of a Jewish state. Why did it leave that out?

Now, to be honest, I don't feel the need to comment on these other links. You have nothing to add to this discussion. I couldn't care less if you think I am a bigot. It doesn't mean I am not right. You on the other hand, know absolutely NOTHING about this topic, so really I suggest you go read some actual books, rather than propaganda websites, and brush up on your knowledge, instead of embarrassing yourself all over message boards.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by dusted

Well, on the first link, it conveniently leaves out that when they were going to partition the land into two states, it was the Arabs that rejected the plan, since they were against the creation of a Jewish state. Why did it leave that out?

Now, to be honest, I don't feel the need to comment on these other links. You have nothing to add to this discussion. I couldn't care less if you think I am a bigot. It doesn't mean I am not right. You on the other hand, know absolutely NOTHING about this topic, so really I suggest you go read some actual books, rather than propaganda websites, and brush up on your knowledge, instead of embarrassing yourself all over message boards.

Dusted, Dusted...are we at a loss for words here? Hmmm...btw, I checked out a couple of your other threads.....interesting, to say the least.

I remember, once I asked you for your solution to this crisis, and your answer was "crush them".

And in another thread, I can see you quoting muslims as "dirty filthy pig Muslims".

And you say you can have an objective argument. What is your point anyway? In all this, all we've gotten from you is that you hate Muslims.

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=735190#post735190

Dude, you have absolutely nothing to contribute other than hatred.

And why don't you quote some of the names of those books you've supposedly read. Chances are they're written by some Isreali ex-army commander. OF COURSE, they're not gonna be biased!

[dusted]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Dusted, Dusted...are we at a loss for words here? Hmmm...btw, I checked out a couple of your other threads.....interesting, to say the least.

I remember, once I asked you for your solution to this crisis, and your answer was "crush them".

And in another thread, I can see you quoting muslims as "dirty filthy pig Muslims".

And you say you can have an objective argument. What is your point anyway? In all this, all we've gotten from you is that you hate Muslims.

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=735190#post735190

Dude, you have absolutely nothing to contribute other than hatred.

And why don't you quote some of the names of those books you've supposedly read. Chances are they're written by some Isreali ex-army commander. OF COURSE, they're not gonna be biased!

Thats all you have absorbed out of this entire thread and others, that I don't like Muslims? Pathetic. Telling the truth is now considered hatred?

Why did that link you provided leave out the fact that the Arabs rejected 2 separate partitioned states? Why did they leave that out?

[crobra]

Originally posted by malone

Face it: all religion is bogus nonsense. No need to waste half my life trying to understand why people BELIEVE in any particular religion: They do so because Mommy and Daddy told them that this is how it is, and society simply reinforces that view. It's a big old comfort blanket for people who dread to face their own mortality. And of course it helps keep the rabble in line. Now, on the other hand if you can furnish evidence to the contrary I'd be delighted to have a gander. But I want real evidence here. None of the usual bs please, like " just look around you, where did it all come from, if not God?"

Malone, you are the one who said the devil is in the details, then I go into details and then you say "No need to waste half my life trying to understand why people BELIEVE in any particular religion". I don't disagree with you on a lot of points, I know we can go back and forth on religious details forever, but Jesus in the Christian is religion is not a minor detail. I agreed with you that there are similarities with the three major religions, but there are key fundamental differences, that's what makes them different religions!! Everyone is claiming to be objective on this thread, but no one will recognize anyone elses' point of view even if they are correct!! I agree with you again on what religion is to society, but we were not discussing our belief, rather details on the religion. I think we should agree to disagree and leave this conversation for one of the meetups - this thread seems to be going on forever!!

[dusted]

Back to that UN link I posted. Can you refute anything in there?

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpalnew/overview.htm

----------------------------

I can refute this too: The Palestinian people were not "indigenous" to Palestine. They were just ordinary garden variety Arabs, who immigrated to the region due to the fact that the Jews were bringing economic opportunity to it. They came from places like Egypt (where Arafat is from) and other places. They were not, as they like to claim, on the land for generations, from time immemorial. That is a lie. In the mid 1800's, due to corrupt Turkish rule, Arab plundering, natural disaster, and other reasons, Palestine was a desert area, with no farms or any agriculture, and was extremely depopulated. When the Jews started leaving the Arab countries to go to Palestine in large numbers in the late 1800's, thats when large numbers of Arabs started going too.

Furthermore, a person is considered by UNRWA to be a "Palestinian refugee" if they were living in Palestine in the years 1946-1948. Now thats hardly indigenous, is it? A person just blows in in '48 from Egypt, and now is a "Palestinian refugee" Please. And you can check this fact out on the UNRWA website.

[breaksny]

Chris u think this is long? Well I'm sure u saw the last thread.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by dusted

----------------------------

I can refute this too: The Palestinian people were not "indigenous" to Palestine. They were just ordinary garden variety Arabs, who immigrated to the region due to the fact that the Jews were bringing economic opportunity to it. They came from places like Egypt (where Arafat is from) and other places. They were not, as they like to claim, on the land for generations, from time immemorial. That is a lie. In the mid 1800's, due to corrupt Turkish rule, Arab plundering, natural disaster, and other reasons, Palestine was a desert area, with no farms or any agriculture, and was extremely depopulated. When the Jews started leaving the Arab countries to go to Palestine in large numbers in the late 1800's, thats when large numbers of Arabs started going too.

Furthermore, a person is considered by UNRWA to be a "Palestinian refugee" if they were living in Palestine in the years 1946-1948. Now thats hardly indigenous, is it? A person just blows in in '48 from Egypt, and now is a "Palestinian refugee" Please. And you can check this fact out on the UNRWA website.

Are you then saying the Jewish people are "indigenous" to Palestine? Just because they were declared "Palestininan refugee" only if they lived in the area between '46-48 does not mean that the ARABS living there before they were evicted from their land (by Israel) don't deserve their state. In the end, thats what you're saying right...let the neighbouring countries Arab countries take them in, and let Israel encompass both states mentioned in the Balfour declaration. By the way, in the early 20th century BEFORE the Jewish immigrants started filtering into Palestine, the Arab population far outnumbered the Jewish pop.

Also, ever hear of the British High Commissioner of Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon or Husayn ibn `Ali?

Do you consider yourself indigenous to this country? No, I thought not. Now, regarding that thread about Mexicans wanting to take over the South East US...do you consider them indigenous to that region? I'd be very interested to hear your answer...but I'm guessing you probably do not want to hand over the South East to Mexico.

The problems NOW, HERE and TODAY, are the Palestinian suicide bombings of Israeli soldiers AND civilians, continued invasion of Palestinian territories, the illegal building of settlements, the invasion of refugee camps, the detention of Palestinian men (funny, how you refused to comment on that article), and the shootings of innocent ambulance drivers trying to help victims (by IDF). I want you to disprove even ONE of those points. Do you refute that President Bush (probably the most pro-Israeli pres yet), has chided Sharon?

And lets not forget the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

From all your previous posts all I have gathered is a hatred for Arabs and Muslims in general. Again I ask you....what is your SOLUTION to this problem?

And you STILL have not given me what I asked from you on the first page..where in the Koran does it say that Islam has to be anti-Jew?

[dusted]

The Jews are in fact, indigenous to Palestine. Palestine was called Judea in ancient times, and their have always been Jews there.

Jews started immigrating in large numbers in the late 1800's, not the early 1900's like you said.

You failed to answer my question as to why the link you provided avoided mentioning that the Arabs rejected the UNs plan to have 2 separate states, one Jewish, one Arab. Why are you refusing to answer that question?

The "occupied territories" are disputed territories, and I don't see what is so illegal about the settlements. Please explain, what law the Jews are breaking by settling there.

These refugee camps and the whole PA territories are all harboring terrorists, which is why Israel does what it does.

I am not going to start quoting Koranic scriptures. It is patently obvious that the Koran is against Jews. Mohammad massacred the Jews in Arabia, and drove out the ones that still remained. Jews are not allowed in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc.

The Saudi government is STILL spreading the lies of the "blood libels" in their government run newspapers.

The fact that the Jews were subjugated, and had to pay special taxes, and were slaughtered by Muslims, makes it very clear that the Muslims were against the Jews (and the christians too)

Now, what I am saying, is that Palestine was a land that in essence, did not belong to anyone in particular, it was never a sovereign nation, it was depopulated, and the Jews decided to build a homeland there. The Arabs refused to let it happen, for what reason I don't know. Israel is a secular state, it was not necessary for it to be 100 percent Jewish.

So, why do you think the Arabs were so against it? Give us your educated opinion, since you know so much about it.

I want an answer. Why did the Arabs reject the UN plan?

[dusted]

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[breaksny]

In fact it says in the Koran that Jews and Christians are considered people of the book, as it's considered throughout mainstream Islam worldwide. The overwhelming majority or literate muslims (and anyone who knows a thing about islam) knows that all the christian and jewish prophets (including everyone in the bible, such as jesus) are considered by moslems to be part of their own religious traditions. They don't considered jesus to be the messiah but they consider him an extremely important prophet in their own religious tradition. You're blatanly lying now dusted. You don't know a fucking thing about Islam except what a few wankish extremists say. And your historical fact is completely one sided to the point of mythology. Much of what u say is true, much of it however is not. I'm not gonna go into details b/c u r not worth my effort.

[malone]

Malone, you are the one who said the devil is in the details, then I go into details and then you say "No need to waste half my life trying to understand why people BELIEVE in any particular religion". I don't disagree with you on a lot of points, I know we can go back and forth on religious details forever, but Jesus in the Christian is religion is not a minor detail. I agreed with you that there are similarities with the three major religions, but there are key fundamental differences, that's what makes them different religions!! Everyone is claiming to be objective on this thread, but no one will recognize anyone elses' point of view even if they are correct!! I agree with you again on what religion is to society, but we were not discussing our belief, rather details on the religion. I think we should agree to disagree and leave this conversation for one of the meetups - this thread seems to be going on forever!!

__________________

My point was that there was no need to devote my time to understanding the nitty gritty details of any of the religions as they were all complete bull. Now, beyond that , if you don't wish to pursue it, I don't really care.

[breakbeatz2]

differences in the writings of the religions arent as important as perceptions of these religions by the people that follow them. nobody out there follows religion the way it is written, people follow religion the way it is convenient for them.

the bible preaches peace and love and forgiveness, yet it was used to justify the Inquisition, the Crusades, and many other horrible actions.

the difference isnt in the religion, its in the people.

its not islam thats the problem, its the people like the palestinians and the afghans who are using this religion to further their agendas, or as an excuse because of a lack of an agenda

[malone]

As to raver mania, lets have a wee glimpse at his most recent offereings. As I predicted, the value of the links would be dismissed as worthless as they were pro- Israeli. How unusual. In other words, you offered links to sites which supported your view, and they are rejected, precisely for this reason. Presumably he was expecting pro-Palestinian sites?? Like I explained yesterday, this guy won't even hear of anything that challenges his view. His solution to this imbalance? Why the old stalwart of the British left, The Guardian. Ah yea. I lived in London for three years and read it on a regular basis and still do. And I witnessed all this time its strong leanings toward the Palestinians. I also happened to notice that it wasn't nearly so sympathetic To Irish Republican Army actions. Perhaps that would have something to do with the Proximity of the conflict. Its very hip supporting the Palestinians as they are unlikely to spontaneously combust in the heart of Oxford street. And whenever the IRA would carry out attacks in London, as they often did, there would be a major outcry for harsher police action. This, despite the fact that the IRA never came even close to the Barbarity exhibited by the various Palestinian outfits. Many completely innocent Irish people were rounded up; some even served very long prison sentences for offences they had absolutely nothing to do with. The beloved Guardian, unfortunately couldn't bring itself to do the kind of coverage you laud them for here. Why?? Perhaps it would adversely affect the old bottom line. There's an old saying that's apt here: It is easy to sleep on another man's wounds.

[breaksny]

Whatever beatz.

[o-jay®]

This thread needs to be shot.

Is it me, or is it just patently obvious that malone = dusted?

[malone]

Do you consider yourself indigenous to this country? No, I thought not. Now, regarding that thread about Mexicans wanting to take over the South East US...do you consider them indigenous to that region? I'd be very interested to hear your answer...but I'm guessing you probably do not want to hand over the South East to Mexico.

Are those darn Mexicans trying to take over the South East Us also? Indigenous?? We are not talking about plants here, you know. Now hand over part of the US to Mexicans? Why? The Mexican Government agreed at the conclusion of the war in 1848 to terms, the result of which you see today. So, while Mexicans do live in the US they certainly will not regain the lost territory without significant exertion. Now, in the Middle East we do have a little problem. You see, we have an actually, existing state, in Israel. We also have Palestinians who aspire to a state. Now, we have an area of land (West Bank and the Gaza Strip) which has been handed over to Palestinian control. But there are a large number of said Palestinians who do not accept Israel's right to exist at all. These people then proceed to blow themselves up in crowded public areas, and open up with automatic gun fire on civilian targets as a means of breaking the Israeli people's will to hold on to their State. The Israeli Government takes action to protect its citizens, as is its right. Some of these actions involve retaking PA territory in order to root out these terrorists, as the PA clearly have no intention of doing. They have done nothing that any state in that situation wouldn't do if it wished to survive. In the US, when the Southern States seceded from the Union, it lead to four bloody years of conflict and cost six hundred thousand lives. Now people want Israel to play by rules that the Palestinians would never recognize themselves. It's just not going to happen. As to your lament that Dusted spoke of "crushing" the Palestinians, well, guess what? In 1970, shortly before the PLO launched their airplane-hijacking career, Arafat, who's actually of Egyptian stock, threatened to replace the Hashemite Kindom of Jordan with his very own Palestinian State. Now, for some strange reason, the resident Monarch of Jordan at the time, King Hussein, didn't share Arafat's enthuasism for the idea , and promptly terminated around 5000 Palestinians, with extreme prejudice, mind you. Now that's what I call crushing the Palestinians. And yes, it also killed off any further designs the Palestinians had on Jordan. So, comparatively speaking, Sharon is operating with velvet gloves.

[malone]

.

[malone]

a

[breaksny]

Dude r u just bumping this thread 4 the sake of argument 4 the fuck of it?

[dusted]

Originally posted by breaksny

Dude r u just bumping this thread 4 the sake of argument 4 the fuck of it?

Thats all he can say, Malone.

As to my post about Mohammad, what did I say that wasn't true? Point it out to me.

Just because the Muslims recognize the existence of other religions, doesn't mean that they are tolerant of them. What makes you such an expert on Islam? Hanging around with Sassa? :laugh:

Its very easy to whine "lies all lies"!, but it doesn't mean shit unless you point out something specific, and actually refute it, which you have failed miserably at doing.

Perhaps you can explain why the Saudi government-run newspapers are running these "blood libel" stories. Obviously, they expect that their readers (the literate Muslims) will believe it.

Or am I lying about that?

Are you denying that Mohammad massacred the Jews? Are you denying that he expelled the Jews from Arabia?

Are you denying that the Jews were subjugated in Muslim countries and subject to plundering, special taxes, and occasional slaughter?

If so please prove me wrong, I would like to be educated.

[dusted]

Originally posted by breaksny

In fact it says in the Koran that Jews and Christians are considered people of the book, as it's considered throughout mainstream Islam worldwide. The overwhelming majority or literate muslims (and anyone who knows a thing about islam) knows that all the christian and jewish prophets (including everyone in the bible, such as jesus) are considered by moslems to be part of their own religious traditions. They don't considered jesus to be the messiah but they consider him an extremely important prophet in their own religious tradition. You're blatanly lying now dusted. You don't know a fucking thing about Islam except what a few wankish extremists say. And your historical fact is completely one sided to the point of mythology. Much of what u say is true, much of it however is not. I'm not gonna go into details b/c u r not worth my effort.

Actually, all religion is mythology.

But seriously, what makes you such an expert on what the "overwhelming majority" or Muslims think? Did you go out and interview them?

Oh, and in what way are the Christian and Jewish prophets part of the Muslim religious traditions?

[dusted]

Originally posted by o-jay®

This thread needs to be shot.

Is it me, or is it just patently obvious that malone = dusted?

Is it me, or is it just patently obvious that breaksny=raver-mania=Sassa=sonicinfusion=bigpopponils? :laugh:

[kramadas]

Originally posted by dusted

Is it me, or is it just patently obvious that breaksny=raver-mania=Sassa=sonicinfusion=bigpopponils? :laugh:

Obviously, not (or do I need to spoonfeed you the details, like a baby).

Whereas, all of Malone's posts have ONLY been about political issues (this, on a clubbing messageboard), as are most of Dusted's posts. Makes you wonder - what are you doing on here?

OR, who are you really?

[kramadas]

Originally posted by dusted

There are plenty of quotes in the Koran and the Hadith that are anti Jewish.

Prove this, if you can.

You don't know shit about Islam.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by dusted

The fact that the Jews were subjugated, and had to pay special taxes, and were slaughtered by Muslims, makes it very clear that the Muslims were against the Jews (and the christians too)

Now, what I am saying, is that Palestine was a land that in essence, did not belong to anyone in particular, it was never a sovereign nation, it was depopulated, and the Jews decided to build a homeland there. The Arabs refused to let it happen, for what reason I don't know. Israel is a secular state, it was not necessary for it to be 100 percent Jewish.

And you're saying that the Palestinians living in Israel have equal rights as the Jewish Israelites? Did you know that they were/are treated like second class citizens: curfews, less job opportunities, etc. Did you know that in 80% of the land owned by Palestinians in Israel were confiscated. How about the massacre of 49 Palestinian farmers in Kufr Kasem in 1956 for violating the "curfew" placed on their village. Tell me - are the Palestinian Israelites defined as a "national minority". Are they eligible to serve in the army?

If you oppress a people they WILL rise up against you. So much for Israel being a "secular" state.