To Club Owners and My Fellow CP Peeps :

[sobeton]

Some interesting reviews of wmc parties, and venues : Xpander

[bbflux]

Tony>>>>You know, gay clubs NEVER have VIP sections (LOVE IT!!!!) and they stay open for years (and profit). So you just may be right. It's just that whenever I've asked insiders they always tell me that the bulk of their cash comes from VIP. I wouldn't really know if that true or not. It's just what I've been told.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by bbflux

Tony>>>>You know, gay clubs NEVER have VIP sections (LOVE IT!!!!) and they stay open for years (and profit). So you just may be right. It's just that whenever I've asked insiders they always tell me that the bulk of their cash comes from VIP. I wouldn't really know if that true or not. It's just what I've been told.

what’s up doc ? first time I heard Frankie Knuckles, Junior Vasquez, Peter Rauhofer, Eddie Baez, etc were in gay clubs. being heterosexual; I could really care less about the mix of the clientele. because the music and the vibe was plain sick, and I would be to busy destroying the dancefloor. no vip, no bullshit, just dance to you drop.

[georgeacasta2]

Damn Tony, this post is off da hook! Good Topic

[james954]

miami in my opinion is a scene that has never quite reached it's potential. i still feel that it has one of the best scenes in the states, but that leaves quite a bit to be desired. since we have oscar g listening and he's given me something to point out, i'm going to use space as an example.

space as a venue is just simply an amazing place. i personally would make a few changes though. i liked it better when it was seperate rooms, i'd lose the spectrum analizers over the mainroom doors on either side of the booth. i'd put the system back to it's original configuration. i know it's a lot warmer sounding system now, but i liked the coldness of the sound in that dark main room. i'd also lose those cheesy 3-D sculptures that hang throughout the club. i'd put the red room back to it's original layout. but i'd keep all the VIP out of the main room. terrace, as is. perfect. but that's not my point. over all space is a wicked venue, but it's never quite grabbed the attention (on a positive note anyway) deserving of a superclub.

space could and should be so much more. they have the venue, the sound, the lights (i know many hate the low ceilings in there, but i on the other hand love them) but they just have never moved it to a level that makes the place legendary. and i'm sorry to say, and this isn't a knock on oscar or any of the other residents, but space relies to heavily on their local residents to coast the club in every weekend. it's so easy to do. build a great club, land some decent residents and hit the cruise control button. so typical of many miami clubs.

after twilo closed, so many people on a global scale expected miami to step back into the drivers seat and really start bringing in the talent, and for the first month there, space did in fact land the likes of a john digweed or nick warren for a night. i as well as many others figured that space would make the proper move and land some of those type of residencies for the miami crowds. no, instead they put edgar on the decks at 6:30 am. i've noticed that a major balance dj has not been back since. interesting enough.

Last Saturday 3-30-02 I got a call from James (who owns Global Underground) telling me he was still in town and wanted to come out to Space that night.....He arrived around 2am...came up said hello....then proceeded to dance like a madman till a little after 10am when I shut off the music in the blue room...

We were hanging for a little bit afterwards when he told me "with my label I get to travel all over the world to the worlds best clubs with the worlds best djs....but I have to tell you....right now.....this is one of the top 5 clubs in the world, if not THE best...is it like this every week?!?"

that's a quote of a quote from one of oscars posts. this more than anything else supports what i'm saying. for one night out, space can have that kind of effect on somebody (minus all the prices and politics) and with a venue such as space, it should be one of the top 5 venues in the world. but time and time again space and miami for that fact fail to deliver the goods. i personally don't feel you should build a club the size and standard of space based on local talent. take for instance the REAL space. ibiza spain. arguably one of the top 2 clubs in the world. can anyone (outside of industry hardcore) honestly name any of their local residents? that place is built 100% on tourist $$ and big name dj's every week. carl cox, sasha, tenaglia, digweed night after night after night. yes space gets some of these people on occasion, but not like ibiza. not even close.

lets look at clubs in england.... with the exception of fabric (the other in the top 2 imo) none of those large venues have built a reputation on local residents (and fabric's local residents are the likes of craig richards, lee burridge, terry francis) cream, ministry of sound, renaissance, home (before they closed) etc. all built a reputation on big name residents like sasha, dave seaman, john digweed, paul oakenfold etc. again week in week out. now there are the "superclubs" of the states: twilo, circus, 1015 and to a lesser extent buzz. all these clubs built their international reputation on quality outside resident talent in sasha, john digweed, deep dish, carl cox etc... once again week in week out.

i chose all these venues as they are comparable in size to space and crobar, the 2 biggest clubs that seem to "want" to cater to a music crowd. but when you measure all these clubs up, all i get is lost potential from miami. with the weather we have, the venues we have and the fact that this city is almost built around the clubbing industry i expect so much more. from the end of october til the end of may, this should be the best scene on the planet. there should be conflict every thursday, friday and saturday night like conference. "fuck, who do i go see tonight??" there is no reason why this place can't be in the winter like ibiza is during the summer.

i'll give it to liquid, they've stuck their neck out and are trying to pull in some different talent. but due to the size of the venue, they are never gonna be able to land the likes of sasha and/or john digweed. i'll also give it to space for bringing in deep dish and tenaglia quarterly. but if space was my venue, i'd have big talent every friday and/or saturday night and i'd have tenaglia in here one sunday night every month and move deep dish monthly. crobar when they do make the effort, they come through, but far more often they hit cruise control with residents.

the only venue in this town that brings it to the table every week is rain. some people shold take note of that. 3 out of 4 weeks a month, rain brings in solid outside fresh new talent. they only have 1 week a month of just local residents. and use thier local residents properly. weekly is just too much to hear the same dj. period. danny tenaglia is hands down my favorite dj. but, if i lived in nyc, there is no way i'd go see him every week. i need more. and i think miami does too. it's time for miami to step up to the next level.

[digital7]

Well said James.

I agree with you 100% on Rain bringing in the newest, freshest house talent out there. In a few months I've seen the likes of Miguel Migs, Rasoul, Ron Trent, Jask and many others and I love their consistant streak. I'm very much enjoying the efforts they put forth there. Not only becuase I'm seeing kick ass talent on a regular basis but because they are actually doing something week in and week out. The vibe in there is par none, Im sure you could agree with me on that.

[houseb4titties]

If I was a resident there, I think I would be a regular attendee to Rain, Liquid and Crobar.

[sobeton]

Sander Kleinenberg, Taucher, John Creamer, Saaed& Palash,Deep Dish(ali), etc. are some of the folks, hitting south florida in the next few weeks. add to that the sick lineup at Beyond 2002 this weekend that includes: John Graham, Rabbit In The Moon, Andy Hughes, etc. more then one venue; or one party is making ,the effort to bring it to the people. will this be something that, happens on a continual bases?. Well that is really up to us. if the talent is coming in; then it’s up to us to take the next step. I’m sure if promoters see, people are supporting events; they will indeed continue to bring the talent. .

with reference to our local talent. Check it: Oscar G, Edgar V., George Acosta, Eddie X., Jimmy Toural, Stephan Luke, David Padilla, Roland, Ivanno Bellini,Stryke, etc. every week they bring it, to the people. I respect our local talent, and put them on the same level as any global DJ. they are the foundation at, the venues they spin at. adding global talent on top, of that foundation; just makes it that much better.

Space love them, loath them, they are the biggest and the best venue in south Florida. perhaps I’m a bit bias, because I love the place. Yes, they have at times succeeded in pissing me off. However, I can tell you from personal experience; I’ve seen them grow and mature as a venue. are they without weaknesses? absolutely not. conversely I have yet to find; any venue without some weaknesses. Space, crobar, Liquid, Rain, Living Room, etc. they all contribute something to the mix.. are their aspects of the south flordia scene that annoy me ? indeed, but in end the focal point, should be the music. as far as the vibe: You have the venue, include the dj that creates the music, and you have the"people" that create the vibe.

Bring It! Promote It! People will come !

[djdekan]

Sobeton

- Alls we Need is a Residency for DJ Dekan and Then The real party Starts.

[bbflux]

Originally posted by sobeton

what’s up doc ? first time I heard Frankie Knuckles, Junior Vasquez, Peter Rauhofer, Eddie Baez, etc were in gay clubs. being heterosexual; I could really care less about the mix of the clientele. because the music and the vibe was plain sick. . .

That's what I keep telling everybody!!!!!! Nobody parties like those boys...

[djoscarg]

There have been some really good points brought up in this discussion....and more importantly....the discusssion has remained respectful and productive.

I just wanted to comment on a couple of points that have been made....

As far as guest DJs and how frequently they come around, there are alot of different factors that go into that...For example, the style of music they play, I for one dig listening to Miguel Migs, Rasoul, Ron Trent.... and for that matter.... Tony Humphries, Frankie Knuckles, Louie Vega...but....I also recognize the fact that those guests would not work at Space. Just like Danny Tenaglia, Deep Dish, John Digweed or Paul Van Dyke would'nt work at Rain. I think these venues each serve the music lover in totally different ways, and I think that is great...but we can't compare apples to oranges....

Another thing....the Miami scene is fairly new to the guest DJ game (as far as bringing them on a regular basis) and I think we are taking huge strides even though we arrived kind of late...

As far as Space goes....Keep in mind....not that long ago....the main room at Space only played 145 bpm+ trance on both nights....although it probably went unoticed to most....it was an extremely tedious process for me to come in on Saturdays and completely change the format to a house & progressive vibe (that never goes over 132 bpm!) and luckily we have an owner who stuck with the idea (through the tough times when people were just not having it!) and now we have more people coming through on Saturdays than any other club.......but more importantly...this now allows us to have the likes of Deep Dish, Saeed & Palash, Behrouz, John Creamer coming on Saturdays (and thats just in the next month) and there are plenty more in the works!

one last thing......

which has become a pet-peeve of mine.....

what is this "local" talent vs. "global" talent thing about?

what makes talent "global"?

is it the fact that they don't live in your home town?

Danny Tenaglia is "local" talent in NY, does that mean he is not "global" talent? or does "global" mean you have to fly in from another city?

One of the biggest problems that I think hinders our scene is the lack of "local" support and respect....this has always been an issue in the Miami dance music scene....A scene is built from within..residents are the foundation of a club, and dictate the music policy of a club ,therefore, influencing the kind of guest DJs that are booked...

And more importantly....we need to start recognizing that we have "global" talent residing right here in Miami...Stryke, George Acosta, Edgar V. ,Ralph Falcon, Robbie Rivera, George Morel, Abel....all of these guys command respect (in their respective markets) well beyond the boundaries of S. Florida....and travel regularly all over the world....as "global" talent....

As for myself....in the next 3 months I will be playing in NY, Dallas, Montreal, Turkey, Switzerland, London & Ibiza....as well as enjoying a #1 single in Billboard....the progressive single of the month in Ministry mag.. #2 single on the Mixer buzz chart...a nomination for best group at the Dance Star USA music awards ....records on Hooj, Junior and Future Groove as well as remixes for Mr. C., Cevin Fisher, Mary J. Blige...etc.

but hey......I can always count on coming back home and being just "local" talent.....it's refreshing!

like I have said before on this board....I really think we take things for granted in our local scene....it is unfortunate....

it's all good though;)

[laliux]

hey Oscar, good points!!!

now, can you hook me up with a CD of yours?

later and tx,

Lalo:hat:

[sobeton]

Originally posted by djoscarg

one last thing......

which has become a pet-peeve of mine.....

what is this "local" talent vs. "global" talent thing about?

what makes talent "global"?

OG > perhaps "guest talent". would be a more appropriate definition, because that's how I characterize my use of the term global talent; or international talent.. I have mad respect for our local talent, and I’m not just saying to say that to appease you. you and I have had, many conversations before.so you already know, you have mad respect from me.

[joeygk]

Oscar I couldn't agree w/ you more. Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong w/ the music scene in Miami; I think it's the people that have a problem. Clubbers in Miami just need to check their attitude at the door and learn to have a good time and enjoy different styles of dance music (it seems like everyone is hell bent on listening to only one genre and that's it- something even I've been guility of in the past). That's one big difference I've noticed between Miami and clubs in NYC, DC and Chicago.......the people. Take Buz in DC for example it's very comparable to Club Space in size and music, but there everyone is so friendly and just happy to be enjoying some world class music, much more relaxed and no snobbery. The same thing can be said about Vinyl in NYC.

Whatever happened to P.L.U.R.???

[bbflux]

Originally posted by joeygk

...Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong w/ the music scene in Miami; I think it's the people that have a problem. Clubbers in Miami just need to check their attitude at the door and learn to have a good time and enjoy different styles of dance music (it seems like everyone is hell bent on listening to only one genre and that's it- something even I've been guility of in the past). That's one big difference I've noticed between Miami and clubs in NYC, DC and Chicago.......the people. Take Buz in DC for example it's very comparable to Club Space in size and music, but there everyone is so friendly and just happy to be enjoying some world class music, much more relaxed and no snobbery. The same thing can be said about Vinyl in NYC.

This is the same point that I was trying to make to djdekan, Joey. Nix the snobbyness, add a relaxed environment and we would have ourselves an A+ scene in our town.

[georgeacasta2]

Originally posted by bbflux

This is the same point that I was trying to make to djdekan, Joey. Nix the snobbyness, add a relaxed environment and we would have ourselves an A+ scene in our town.

I don't think this is possible with the Travel channels unflattering perception of Miami's nightlife. Sheeesh, it's horrible!!!!!!! I saw one yesterday on being a "TRUE" miami player. There was some dork called "Breakfast" that has lots of money and lots of women. Then there's one on how to get into Miami's "ULTRA SECRET" VIP. Of course they showed club Pearl and all the decadent PLAYERS buying $800.00 bottles of champagne.

[djdekan]

So I have found the Culprit Behind Killing My loved Trance Scene. Thanks Oscar, I appreciate It, Now Im out of Luck.

JK

Pete

[b-side]

Originally posted by djoscarg

but hey......I can always count on coming back home and being just "local" talent.....it's refreshing!

like I have said before on this board....I really think we take things for granted in our local scene....it is unfortunate....

it's all good though;)

Oh The Irony..... I too share the irony...

I moved here to SOFL because the grass we much greener here and it IS.... But now that I'm here I still get more props outside of the State (or Country), than I do in my own back yard.

People in SFL have been spoiled, especially if they have not lived in a rual area of the U.S. (try WACO, TX.... and you'll call this place paradise)

Everyweek on the board it's the same complaints but no one doing anythin about it.....

WELL IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SCENE... GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO AND CREATE SOMETHING!

[phunk303]

quote :

i as well as many others figured that space would make the proper move and land some of those type of residencies for the miami crowds. no, instead they put edgar on the decks at 6:30 am.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for your information James........Digweed got off the decks at 7 because he had an early flight to catch.......so it wasn't a move made by space it was a move made by Digweed himself........

[saguecera]

WELL IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SCENE... GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO AND CREATE SOMETHING!

Well said.

I think it is inevitable that miami's trance scene will die down.

Not because it's trance, but because any type of music that gets raped, beaten to a bloody pulp, and left to die will get played out.

I don't blame it on miami or on the local d.j.'s but I blame it on

everyone that has seen that this sort of music (oakenfold, pvd, george acosta, etc.) will make young clubbers on e pay up to $75

to "blow up" to these d.j.'s. I was born and raised in south beach

and I moved to London when it all got really commercialized (kaycee - escape on power 96 86 times a day)

I've learned out here in london that the reason that british people are so in tune with dance music is because there is not just one kind of music, but every kind. Everyone here feeds off of the diversity of the scene.

In miami, you would have trouble having any other big night with music different than the pvd, oakey formula.

My friend in miami is one of the main people trying to bring up the drum and bass scene, but there are so many HATERS in miami

that most people won't even give him the time of day. He really knows his shit too. He has brought down dj marky, patife, dj hype, mickey finn, etc.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT STYLE, DON'T KNOCK HIM.

because he's trying.......

But so many people in miami have that god complex, thinking that the sound that they're into is THE ONLY sound.

I have another friend who tried to get two-step off of the ground

in miami but he's constantly being rejected by local clubs and promoters.

But there are some people trying to make a difference.......

You have to give respect to the following people for at least trying to make a change.

1. Schematic - It's the only completely NEW sound coming out of

miami. They do their own parties (small but unique)

2. Spam all-stars - for keeping it fresh

3. dj lespam - for Digging in abuelas record collection

4. dj stryke

5. oscar g - for keeping it DIRTY

6. Hallucination records - one nation, underground, invisible

need I say more?

7. Bliss records - For doing their own ipsch

8. sfp, deep touch,etc. - for also doing their own ipsch

no props go to:

1. george acosta - for completely stealing someone elses sound

2. Ivano bellini - for playing the same set for two years and then

hanging off danny t's dick (if you wanna ride, ride

the white horse)

Am I lying?

3. The space management - nuff said

4. all of those "postalita" doormen.

I do think there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I think the future will be bright for miami. With all of the local labels starting

to blow up, a whole new version of miami vice about to be filmed, and all of the new GENRE-CROSSING music about to come out things are looking good. I don't think the dance scene in miami is dead, it's just in intensive care. Also I have noticed some miami locals that have moved out to london to see what all of the fuss is over here before moving back to miami.

I know of two vocalists from miami who are currently living here in london cranking out tracks and learning from everyone in the scene. Also, as much as I want to dislike him, nayib estefan has been living over here for a year and a half now and he has three residencies at some serious underground clubs. He's being mentored by miami favorite "little louie" and i've seen him play some blinding sets opening up for some heavyweights (Tom "the jedi" middleton, jeff mills, derrick may, dimitri from paris, but mostly louie) Noone knows who he is over here since he plays under different aliases but since I grew up in miami I know what he looks like. I know also that he's doing his first album this summer and plans to move back to miami to release his album and do a monthly boat party. Also, I know of a couple of high profile british and newyorkian dance producers and d.j.'s who are moving to miami at the beginnig and at the end of the summer.

They are also planning to start their own pirate stations in miami

too.

I THINK THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE A VERY BIG CHANGE IN THE SCENE.

[bbflux]

Originally posted by saguecera

WELL IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SCENE... GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO AND CREATE SOMETHING!

Well said.

I think it is inevitable that miami's trance scene will die down.

Not because it's trance, but because any type of music that gets raped, beaten to a bloody pulp, and left to die will get played out.

I don't blame it on miami or on the local d.j.'s but I blame it on

everyone that has seen that this sort of music (oakenfold, pvd, george acosta, etc.) will make young clubbers on e pay up to $75

to "blow up" to these d.j.'s. I was born and raised in south beach

and I moved to London when it all got really commercialized (kaycee - escape on power 96 86 times a day)

I've learned out here in london that the reason that british people are so in tune with dance music is because there is not just one kind of music, but every kind. Everyone here feeds off of the diversity of the scene.

In miami, you would have trouble having any other big night with music different than the pvd, oakey formula.

My friend in miami is one of the main people trying to bring up the drum and bass scene, but there are so many HATERS in miami

that most people won't even give him the time of day. He really knows his shit too. He has brought down dj marky, patife, dj hype, mickey finn, etc.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT STYLE, DON'T KNOCK HIM.

because he's trying.......

But so many people in miami have that god complex, thinking that the sound that they're into is THE ONLY sound.

I have another friend who tried to get two-step off of the ground

in miami but he's constantly being rejected by local clubs and promoters. . .

I can think of a few people around here that could use a course on respecting other people's tastes (cuhummm...)

. . .I know of two vocalists from miami who are currently living here in london cranking out tracks and learning from everyone in the scene. Also, as much as I want to dislike him, nayib estefan has been living over here for a year and a half now and he has three residencies at some serious underground clubs. He's being mentored by miami favorite "little louie" and i've seen him play some blinding sets opening up for some heavyweights (Tom "the jedi" middleton, jeff mills, derrick may, dimitri from paris, but mostly louie) Noone knows who he is over here since he plays under different aliases but since I grew up in miami I know what he looks like. I know also that he's doing his first album this summer and plans to move back to miami to release his album and do a monthly boat party. Also, I know of a couple of high profile british and newyorkian dance producers and d.j.'s who are moving to miami at the beginnig and at the end of the summer.

They are also planning to start their own pirate stations in miami

too.

I THINK THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE A VERY BIG CHANGE IN THE SCENE.

Great post! Some extremely interesting info!!!

[digital7]

Originally posted by djoscarg

As far as guest DJs and how frequently they come around, there are alot of different factors that go into that...For example, the style of music they play, I for one dig listening to Miguel Migs, Rasoul, Ron Trent.... and for that matter.... Tony Humphries, Frankie Knuckles, Louie Vega...but....I also recognize the fact that those guests would not work at Space.

You may be right but I disagree with that statement. Why wouldn't they work @ Space? I actually think Space would be a great venue for any of those above artist to spin. I would actually love to hear any of them spin the Space patio. Not to knock on anybody but Ivanno Bellini just dosen't do it for me just like for alot of other people and having patio guest on a saturday sounds like a great idea. I loved the idea of having Danny spin the patio during the conference, that was top notch. Oscar Gaetan in the Main Room and Miguel Migs or Rasoul or Ron Trent or Mark Farina or Halo or Onionz in the patio? why not? that sounds like a party to me. Mix it up with some different grooves and try to implement and new sound and I'm sure the people would react on a positive note. All your doing is further solidifying a super strong night. I happen to think the patio has a great potential, but I haven't been motivated to support it becuase of the lack of talent coming in. Again, I'm not knocking on any of the local talent. It's just my 0.02 cents worth ....

[houseb4titties]

...trance is dead

...hip hop is dead

...house is dead

...techno is dead

...DnB is dead

It kind of irks me when people make those statements.

It's not that the genres/scenes are dead, all it means is that they are progressing to another sound. In most cases the change is usually good. Its the same cycle over and over with all music types.

When something musically gets played out that only means that something better is about to emerge.

Those who want to hold on and preserve their precious "scenes" as is are the ones who are resistant to change. They're also the ones who are closeminded to their own music. Those who respect dance culture as a whole are the ones who last.

Some people get soo caught up in genres when they're first introduced to the music. They delve in it too quickly. "I only listen to JUNGLE." or "I only listen to trance."

Those kinds usually don't last too long and "drop out of the scene."

Enjoy the sounds you hear now because I'm sure it will be alot different 10 years from now.

If you love it, get into it.

I also agree with saguecera about how our Superstar Djs blow themselves up by using younger crowds.

My friend in miami is one of the main people trying to bring up the drum and bass scene

BOH SELECTA!!!

The haters just can't dance to it

We have a great DnB/Jungle scene here in Atlanta. But alot of kids are caught up into being "junglists." Or what they think a junglist is anyway.

UFO's and EcKo does not qualify.

Tell your friend to keep his head up...if it still sucks tell him to move to ATL! He'll be embraced.

I have another friend who tried to get two-step off of the ground n miami but he's constantly being rejected by local clubs and promoters.

Wow thats hard to believe. I would think that 2 step would be widely accepted in Miami.

Tell him to come to ATL as well!

I'm done blabbering for now.

[sobeton]

Cassie on the money once again!!. I never have gotten into DNB. then again I’ve never really; been widely exposed to it. it would be nice to have in the mix.

[djoscarg]

Originally posted by digital7

You may be right but I disagree with that statement. Why wouldn't they work @ Space? I actually think Space would be a great venue for any of those above artist to spin. I would actually love to hear any of them spin the Space patio. Not to knock on anybody but Ivanno Bellini just dosen't do it for me just like for alot of other people and having patio guest on a saturday sounds like a great idea. I loved the idea of having Danny spin the patio during the conference, that was top notch. Oscar Gaetan in the Main Room and Miguel Migs or Rasoul or Ron Trent or Mark Farina or Halo or Onionz in the patio? why not? that sounds like a party to me. Mix it up with some different grooves and try to implement and new sound and I'm sure the people would react on a positive note. All your doing is further solidifying a super strong night. I happen to think the patio has a great potential, but I haven't been motivated to support it becuase of the lack of talent coming in. Again, I'm not knocking on any of the local talent. It's just my 0.02 cents worth ....

I agree 100% digital.....

My mistake...

I was only thinking about the main room...

Actually one of the main reasons for the new patio rennovations was so they could bring guest DJS to the patio as well....That will be great....some guys (like Steve Lawler) can even play two sets....one in the main room then one outside on the patio when the sun comes up.....