tribal

haha war crimes. and in other news, the leaves will be green next summer. this is such pathetic bullshit. so the guy who walked in to that hotel, detonated his bomb belt and killed 40 israelis is not guilty of war crimes? and when the IDF goes in and rounds up the murdereres responsible, they are committing war crimes? typical spineless european pussy propoganda. why isnt Hamas guilty of war crimes? of the PFLP, or the islamic jihad? is blowing up innocent people not ground enough to be a war crime? oh i forgot, they arent jewish.

sassa bin laden. just to clarify your fuddled little brain, there is a big big difference between getting involved in stopping ethnic slaughter like Kosovo and blowing up a ship specifically to kill people, or flying planes into office towers. what you are doing is basically saying that US is the same as al qada. and i swear, i dont care how leftist you may be, you should be thrown out of this country for saying shit like that. how can you possibly be angry at a successful elimination of a know terror leader? a person whose intent, only intent is to kill civilians? wtf is wrong with you?

this board has about as much intelligent debate on important issues as a pickle jar. good day.

sassa, seriously, shut the fuck up. there is no excuse for what these bastards are doing right now. just like there is no excuse for the brutality that the russians conduct their dirty war with. you are nothing but a fucking apologist. terrorism is terrorism is terrorism, i dont care what your ideological or social pretext is. and please dont try to pull a Chomsky on me with 'state terrorism' non sense. just because the russians behave like animals in that region, that does not give these fuckwits any legitimacy in blowing 500 people up. same case with palestinians.

sassa, dont take this personally, perhaps you are part chechen, but a very large number of chechen guerrilas have ties with al qada, this is a known fact, the UK MI6, Mossad and even the Jordanian intelligence service traced a number of military/financial networks between chechen guerrilas and groups like al qada. please, this is a dirty war, the russians arent the only ones committing crimes. Katab for your information was trained in a bin laden-run camp. if you want to know the true ideology behind the chechen guerrilas, and who some of their 'friends' are, check out www.kavkaz.org a guerrila-run website, which you will find quiet interesting, filled with the usual hate the - zionist- america - jews - west bullshit. im not saying russians should be there, but this isnt some noble fight for freedom, its not that convenient.

dnice, we are a big reason why many nations have no annual growth, or why many sub saharan nations are in an agricultural decline. theres a lot , a lot, of shit that goes on that you dont know about. nothing to do with conspiracies, or other such crap, its just the way things work. read Chomsky - Rogue Nations, very good analysis, if a bit too leftist in my opinion regarding the moscow situation, its a very messy situation on one hand, the russians do commit many atrocities, as their poorly equipped army is forced to recruit convicts to fill the ranks. some really terrible people serve among their units. a big problem right there. on the other hand, i have absolutely no remorse for the islamic militants who after russia withdrew in '98, brougth chechnya into a realm of chaos, murder, kidnapping and distruction. their terror chiefs like the now thankfuly killed Khattab, have strong ties with bin laden, and share his vision of the Caliphate. among the people who are fighting for a 'noble' version of their own independence, there are hardcore terrorists, the same kind of scum that killed 3000 of oiur own. so, again, theres no black and white

yea normal, bush is hitler, he just changed the name idiot where were you hatched anyway? ignorance to the muslim people? yea, ok einstein. russia rejected it because iraq owes them around 8 billion in unpaid military bills. if US takes over, russians aint never gonna see their green back. well no shit they arent happy with our planned invasion. russian oil conglomrates rake billions off iraqi oil fields, and now they are in danger of having american / british competition. bad for business you see.

how i hate these fuckers!!! judeo nazis, this is out of NY times, these bitches only fuel the conflict !! ---------------------- KHIRBAT YANUN, West Bank, Oct. 20 — The alleys of this Palestinian hamlet were silent today, the empty stone houses locked, the small local school deserted. The last families living here left on Friday, broken by what they said was a year of steadily mounting violence by Jewish settlers living in neighboring outposts on the hills. The gunfire, stone-throwing, physical assaults and vandalism had become unbearable, they said. "This was not a life," said Kamal Sbeih, 40, a father of six, who packed up and moved with his family to the neighboring village of Aqraba. "I left against my will. It is more difficult than death, but I would go to the desert so my son can sleep safely." The evacuation of Khirbat Yanun, a village southeast of Nablus which once numbered 150 people, is the first case in memory in which harassment by Jewish settlers has emptied an entire Palestinian community. It was also an example of how militant young settlers are shaping the conflict in the West Bank after more than two years of violence between Israelis and Palestinians. The zeal of the younger generation of settlers, born and reared in conflict, was on display several miles west of here today, where about 1,000 Jewish youths fought soldiers and police officers who came to evict them from an illegal settlement outpost known as Gilad Farm — one of scores of encampments built in recent years on West Bank hills. Hurling epithets at the soldiers and urging them to refuse orders, the young protesters clung to shipping containers and barricaded themselves in sheds before they were dragged off, and the structures were demolished. Dozens of people were hurt. After the troops left the area, a few hundred youths returned to rebuild the dismantled structures. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon criticized the settlers today, saying, "There is no issue which justifies violence against soldiers and the security forces." Outposts similar to the one taken down today, extensions of the Jewish settlement of Itamar, flank Khirbat Yanun. The slopes below the outposts have become effectively off limits to the villagers in recent years. Settlers have opened fire to scare goat shepherds away and to distance olive pickers from hillside groves, villagers said. Two weeks ago a man from the neighboring village of Aqraba was killed when shots were fired at olive pickers on a hill nearby. Yaacov Hayman, the chairman of the local council of Itamar, said that after two years of lethal Palestinian attacks, which he said had killed 11 people from the settlement, the villagers had to keep their distance. "After everything we've been through, we're not willing to let them get near us," Mr. Hayman said. "We're not willing to take any chances." But settlers have also made violent forays into Khirbat Yanun itself, coming with increasing frequency over the past year, especially on the Jewish sabbath and holidays, villagers said. The settlers would threaten residents at gunpoint, hurl stones from rooftops, smash windows and vandalize property, according to the villagers. They described huddling in their homes with frightened children as settlers pounded on doors. Mr. Hayman said he was not aware of any such attacks. Yet the empty hamlet bore scars of violence. Windows were broken in some homes. A blackened building held the rusting remains of a generator, which residents said had been burned by settlers in April, leaving the village with no electricity. Three water tanks that had supplied the village lay empty. Residents said they had been toppled by settlers. Abdellatif Sbeih, the mayor, showed a scar on his head he said was left from the blow of a settler's rifle. He produced a sheaf of written complaints to the police going back four years, which he said had produced no results. The troubles began five years ago when the settlement outposts first went up, he said, and they have continued unabated. A police spokesman confirmed that complaints had been received, saying that settlers had been questioned but none had been prosecuted. As the violence intensified over the years, people began moving out of Khirbat Yanun. Last Friday, the last few families left. "We always hoped to God that that our complaints would help, but it was all in vain," said Yussef Sbeih, 85, the village elder. His son, Atef Sbeih, 57, who also left Friday, looked back at his shuttered home, where he said settlers had broken in four months ago. It was not easy to leave after seven generations of village life, but the welfare of the children was at stake, Kamal Sbeih said. "One of my sons would cry and hold me in fear, and I had to get up with him at night and take his hand just to go to the bathroom," he said. "No one can accept living like this." The mayor and a few other men from this abandoned village came back today, saying they had to maintain a presence here to prevent settlers from taking it over. "This our land and we can't surrender it to them under any conditions," Mayor Sbeih said. "We hope that if the situation calms down, we'll be able to return with the children." "Inshallah," he added, "God willing."

sorry sassa, stupidity gets under my skin i suppose. xeno, look, i wont discuss religion, i know very little of both faiths, im not an expert. i think both are obsolete to tell you the truth, so lets leave religion alone. every religion has its quircks, and these 2 are no different about IDF, im not denying that they do things that are brutal and against UN conventions. i know they do it. they arent innocent, no one in this conflict is innocent. thats a naiive perspective. IDF does what it does because they are forced to do it. they didnt want to go into jenin with D-9 bulldozers and level those homes. you have hamas to thank for that. no israeli wants to be in palst territories, but extremist groups are forcing them back in, to destroy terror centers, like Jenin. stop suicide bombers, stop the attacks, and the IDF will not go in there, its been done before during Oslo. once again, israelis do not want to be there, there is nothing for israel to gain by deploying its army in palst civilian areas. hamas has single handedly ended the peace process.

btw, xeno, you talk about judaism being racist. have you ever heard a mufti speak about jews in places like qatar, S arabia and kuwait? many other arab contries as well. i saw a transcript of a morning show, out of s arabia, where the reporter went around to little kids in a mosque, and asked them what they thoght of jews. the people inside the mosques refererd to the jews as pigs, infidels and other colorful names. all this on national tv. Good Morning S Arabia!! who do you hate today? you wanna talk about racism in religion, islam needs more overhaul than ever. just a tip from an infidel.

xeno, leave religion out of this. i told you, personally, i dont believe any of that chosen people non sense, and the vast majority of israelis are secular and not religious. islam and judaism are very similar, and both have elements that believe themselves to be superior or 'more chosen' than others. its like Tom Friedman said, some muslims see their religion as God 3.0 where judaism is God 1.0 and christianity is God 2.0. its all horseshit to me. religion is not the most vital issue anyways. please explain to me why this antifada started in 2000. yes, you will tell me its sharon who started it, but one man can not be a logical reason for a 2 year old war that caused so much destruction. explain to me why after all the progress of post Oslo with the palestinian economy vibrant, future bright, the palestinians shove it all in the toilet, after arafat walks out on clinton. is it the settlements? the 'occupying' IDF? during Oslo, the settlements were being reduced, and taken apart in many areas, and IDF presense in areas A-C was almost non existent, because the PA police administered those areas. once again, whats the reasoning behind this antifada? the PA along with their more extreme counterparts wanted to emulate hezbulla's actions in south lebanon, hoping for some sort of an israeli withdrawal. where? i guess into the sea. right now, the PA and hamas are re evaluating their strategy, groups that bear all the responsibility and reasons for IDF being in PA areas once again. back during Oslo, PA police kept check on hamas and islamic jihad cells, and violence inside israel was low. guess fucking what!!! no IDF in palst areas, no targeted assassinations of terrorists, no bulldozing of homes. its a very simple solution. stop blowing up israeli civilian targets, stop supporting this culture of death and suicide, rebuild your future. the palestinians can blame the entire world but themselves, but in the end, they will bear responsibilty for their own fate.

so are arabs supposed to be grateful for being allowed to live and work in israel even though it was their land to begin with? i guess native americans should be glad they got reservations for free too right? asswipe, do everyone a favor and move back to whatever backward shithole your ancestors came from. who are you to give out lessons in anthropology and who lived where first? for your information ignoramus, israelis lived in that area since the dawn of civilization, much much longer than pre ottoman turk transjordan. why are you here anyway? you think that our govt bombed Bali, you think we should give indians all the land back, and that our govt creates terrorists. why do you suck off our system, while hating your own nation? you are nothing but a parasite. how old are you anyway? your thinking and reasoning rivals a 3 year old child. fuck why am i even replying to this filth.

also want to add to Evan's observations. there is this whole misconception, that if israel was to just withdraw today, to the green line, just like it wanted to do before this murderous antifda started again, that there would suddenly be peace. take the blanket off your eyes ladies and gentelemen. the problem with most arabic nations, including the palestinian people, is that their own governments are rotten, ill concieved, science and technology is non existence, and religious fanaticisism runs rampant. dont get me wrong, israel must stop their illegal settlements, and recognize the validity of palestinian aspirations. BUT, the arab side must do exponentially more. with the amount of media coverage and sympathy that the palestinians recieve daily, there is no excuse why their society is in collapse, why their children want to be suicide killers and not doctors and teachers. they fucked up, ill be straightforward here, yes, they fucked up. they had an offer on a table, yes, not everything they wanted, but a generous offer that was the best they would ever get out of an israeli government. instead of building on mutual trust and compromise, they chose the way of the gun, and the belt bomb. i dont blame the israelis one bit, for protecting their own citizens. it is something i would expect my govt to do for me, as a citizen of a state.

the problem with european and some american leftist 'intellectuals' is that they are very naiive, if well meaning. to whoever wants to understand the mentality of an israeli, living in a hostile environment, read an excellent book called 'In the Land of ISrael' by Amos Oz, a famous israeli writer. there is no good guys and bad guys in this conflict. many here dont seem to understand that.

People from NY more than anyone in this country should be aligned with my opinion. THE MAIN REASON THE US WAS ATTACKED ON 9-11 WAS BECAUSE WE UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT ISRAEL. this is the worst, biggest load of horseshit ever. this rates with the common arab gossip that 400 jews stayed home from work that day. fact #1: for the brainless who actually believe this drivel. the US was attacked by al qada primarily because al qada feels that the presence of US troops on Saudi soil is embarrasing to them. the racist muslim nazis that al qada are, they want to establish a world wide caliphate, and see US/UK/Israel as barriers to their bright future a-la-taliban israel is fighting is own war, which has nothing to do with US foreign policy. the state dept. what a fucking joke. bassboy, the state dept has absolutely zero credibility, after the disgusting reports that they published. its funny how 'troubled' they are when a group of palst. gunmen open fire behind a line of civilans and innocent palst die in cross fire, yet the glorious state dept, never seems to be troubled when israeli civilians are blown up, when they get shot at, simply for going to work. ohh, its ok, because they dont deserve to live there right? becuase every other country deserves to be where they are, yet israel doesnt. why arent people concerned about the syrian occupation of lebanon? or the chinese occupation of tibet? or the iraqi occupation of kurdish areas? or dozens of other conflicts?? fucking europeans and this shit department demonize israel at every turn, a nation that has more right than anyone to be there, after all the wars, the slaughter, the terrible history of jews in europe. fuck the european left, and fuck the state dept, walk a mile in israeli boots, then talk the talk.

i have no problem killing saddam, and if bush wants to assrape iraq so bad, he should do it already and stop this debating nonsense. the problem is that after iraq, theres iran, theres syria, north korea, libya and sudan. why only iraq? sudan also has oil, so does iran. strange.

you said the same thing when we went into afghanistan. reale politique

xeno, posting pictures of dead palst babies shows and does absolutely nothing. do you want me to dig up pictures of dismembered israelis, people your age, who go out with friends and get blown to bits with nails and belt bombs. whats your point? IDF does not intentiallly kill civilians, that is a tremendous lie passed around by the PA media, and ultra left wing european news outlets. the Israeli army is one of the most professional and highly disciplined armies in the world. they are unparallel. all israeli citizens were and are part of the IDF, so when you accuse the I. army of being nazis, etc, you are accusing an entire nation. if you would know anything about the internal structure and the history of the IDF, you wouldnt make those ignorant statements. btw, being a jew doesnt mean that i believe in god. thats christianity. judaism is more than a religion, its also an ethnicity.

sassa, being anti war may be your opinion, and living in a representative democracy, you have a chance to display your opinions without being thrown in jail or persecuted. so yeah, i would call that a democracy. just because the majority dont share your sentiment, doesnt make the republic undemocratic. if there is a majority of people with your opinion, you senator would vote anti war, and not pro.remeber, corporations may give money to politicians, but ultimately, it is the people who decide who they will vote for. what israel commercials are you talking about? ive never seen one.

xeno, i dont know how old you are, probably not very old, but im going to give you a quick introduction to something called objective journalism. you see, the nonsense you posted there is called 'yellow journalism', see, being a jew, and owning and controlling all media, i would know something about that. now, if you take an article from something like the palestine chronicle, is an equivalent of me, taking an article that has a story about palestinians, from a right wing israeli site, hmmm, something like www.debka.com read it, and see if you agree with the things they say. here lemme give you an example: "Sweiti reported that one soldier boarded the bus, training his gun at the children and telling him in Arabic that “we will kill all of you.” " ok, bullshit # 1, an IDF soldier would never, ever do that. why?? because of the risk of being court martialed by the government, also because believe it or not, IDF does not want to be in those areas, and the last thing they would ever want to do, is intimidate little children on a school bus. your article is beyond biased, its filled with one sided hatred. the journalist, did not ask the israelis of their version of the story, which i assure you, is quiet different. bullshit #2 "When Nammoura confronted the commanding officer with the illegality and immorality of demolishing the demolition, the officer reportedly told him “I am the law.” ok, now you see my pioint, i am the law??? sounds like a shwarzenegger movie diaolog to me. palestninan state media is filled with blatant, almost silly lies and propaganda, like the one you just posted. remember the Jenin "massacre' . please remind me how many gunmen were killed. 1000?? 500 ? the palestnian media reported that IDF were killing children, and dumping them in a ditch, so the entire Jenin streets were leaking with blood. they also said that approx 500 civilians were killed. you know very well what happened there. im not making this up, an egyptian friend of mine was very upset when he told me this. sadly, he believed every word of that filth. so.. next time you post something, try to find material that at least has a fraction of credibility.

xeno, wheres the source of that 'news' column? besides being written unprofessionally "the israeli soldieres were rampaging.." this article is clearly playing to win sympathies from where there should be none. very much like the time when palstnians cried when the IDF stopped their ambulances. the 'barbaric IDF' everyone cried, how could they? well you should finish your story, because Hamas was using palst. ambulances to transport bombers and weapons into israel, and to leave combat zones, in order to sneak through IDF perimeter. this story smell like shit to me. give me the source. and it better not be shit news like indymedia or some hardcore islamic site.

Rachel! how the fuck are ya babe? where you been?

not posting for some reason..

godamn clubplanet!!!

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