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hoke

Situations that we know are wrong...

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... why do we get ourselves into them? :confused:

- getting physical before being friends... no matter how many times we tell ourselves the next time will be different.

- taking someone back after they hurt us... again and again and again and...

- getting with someone new when we know we're not ready.

- getting with someone who we know we're not compatible with... and staying with them.

- saying things that we don't really feel, or before we're really ready to say them.

- turning away or ignoring someone who we know would be right for us.

- etc...

A friend and I have been speculating that some of these (though I think not all) have a lot to do with validation... as long as we're with someone -- anyone -- we feel validated, no matter how much we get torn up in other ways.

Thoughts?

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Originally posted by embodiedhate

Almost all the examples you gave above involve pain, and pain is what drives Humanity.

Are you suggesting that we seek out painful situations?

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Originally posted by hoke

Are you suggesting that we seek out painful situations?

. . . He is indeed . . . Humans deal with the universe by advancing technology in order to shield them from it. We only learn by trial and error. For each error, the result is pain. Sometimes this leads to another attempt, in which succes could be an outcome. If It is, then there is elation, and progress, until the next obstacle that brings pain is met. . .

. . . It's a constant cycle. Pain brings agitation and yearning to build, which begets happiness until the cycle begins again. . .

Without pain humans would have no motivation to create. Some would say love is a substitute . . . It can be, however love, being the slave of instinct, cannot produce the pure logic that is necessary to create on a grand scale. . .

. . satisfied hate boy? . . .

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Originally posted by hoke

... why do we get ourselves into them? :confused:

- getting physical before being friends... no matter how many times we tell ourselves the next time will be different.

- taking someone back after they hurt us... again and again and again and...

- getting with someone new when we know we're not ready.

- getting with someone who we know we're not compatible with... and staying with them.

- saying things that we don't really feel, or before we're really ready to say them.

- turning away or ignoring someone who we know would be right for us.

- etc...

You've just listed just about every major mistake I've made in my life. :blank:

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Mike, I buy the argument that intellectual and emotional struggle induce growth. However, I have a problem with the argument in this particular context.

In the situations I've cited, the lesson is already learned. There is no cycle of moving on to the next painful situation in order to seek further growth -- these particular errors have already been made, and they're being repeated. The best example is when we take somebody back after being hurt many times. How much pain does a person really need in order to "learn the lesson"?

Basically, what I'm suggesting is that there are certain situations that recur consistently in our lives. Every time they occur, we know they're wrong *beforehand*, and that pain will be a consequence. Surely pain in and of itself is not a desirable goal -- therefore, some other factor must be bringing us back to those situations.

Can you account for this?

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Originally posted by hoke

Mike, I buy the argument that intellectual and emotional struggle induce growth. However, I have a problem with the argument in this particular context.

In the situations I've cited, the lesson is already learned. There is no cycle of moving on to the next painful situation in order to seek further growth -- these particular errors have already been made, and they're being repeated. The best example is when we take somebody back after being hurt many times. How much pain does a person really need in order to "learn the lesson"?

Basically, what I'm suggesting is that there are certain situations that recur consistently in our lives. Every time they occur, we know they're wrong *beforehand*, and that pain will be a consequence. Surely pain in and of itself is not a desirable goal -- therefore, some other factor must be bringing us back to those situations.

Can you account for this?

I believe what our illustrious Phuturephunk meant was that the ACT of repeating the same cycle, in this case trying many incompatible relationships in attempt to find the right one (even IF you know its wrong to begin with), is part of the cycle in fending off pain until one reaches happiness. Because, as we all know, even in incompatible relationships, there still are moments of happiness that are attained. These small moments act as an opiate to mask the pain. Another thing: Humans love to repeat cycles that are known to them. Choosing several bad relationships quickly in a row, a trait that is usually endemic with people who are chronically prone to bad human entaglement is the easy road out, the path of least resistance so to speak.

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Originally posted by embodiedhate

I believe what our illustrious Phuturephunk meant was that the ACT of repeating the same cycle, in this case trying many incompatible relationships in attempt to find the right one (even IF you know its wrong to begin with), is part of the cycle in fending off pain until one reaches happiness. Because, as we all know, even in incompatible relationships, there still are moments of happiness that are attained. These small moments act as an opiate to mask the pain. Another thing: Humans love to repeat cycles that are known to them. Choosing several bad relationships quickly in a row, a trait that is usually endemic with people who are chronically prone to bad human entaglement is the easy road out, the path of least resistance so to speak.

. . oh you're sharp allright, but you missed the mark a bit . . . I think a bit of pride comes into play when pursuing these bad relationships . . It's kinda like: "well, I know she aint right for me, and I know there will be static . . . but I'm gonna try and change that anyway . ." Which lends itself subconsciously to your "path of least resistance" and what is "known" theory as well as the confronting pain to attain happiness point that I made . . . Sometimes, being the stubborn hairless monkeys we are, we need to inflict what we know is wrong, to grow to what we need as right. . . even IF the cycle must repeat several times. . . It's all basic human idiocy . .

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I think some of the situations we get ourselves into are just so screwy, there can't possibly be any redeeming value in them.

I tend more toward the "because we're scared" argument...

but I'll buy the idiocy argument, too! :D

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I've been with a girl on and off for 2 years now. We've been through breaks, good times and bad.

It's a crazy situation, but i keep coming back for more. It's like we know there's something not right, we just keep ignoring that and trying to work around it.

But after what happened this past weekend, i don't think i'm coming back to her anytime soon :mad3:

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Ok, I still can't believe how on-point all you peeps are, maybe you can advise my Smurf ass:

I've been with this girl, nik, on and off for 2 years.

Over those 2 years we have taken breaks, dated outside, only to get back together. We both knew something wasn't right, either she wasn't ready to commit or something else. (keep in mind, she also made the decision to wait to sleep with someone until she gets married after the fact of sleeping w/3 guys b4 me)

So she is a little screwy, but i have been patient and understanding of her plight. She has told me how she really likes me, but at times wondered if we should just be friends.

Then this past weekend, she invited me over for dinner. Things were fine, but then we went to this park where park rangers were standing guard. They asked us where we lived, and i said "Mamaroneck" (i don't) i said a little white-lie, and she got furious. She said "i don't want to go to the park" and didn't want to take me out for dinner either.

I was shocked, and speechless. Then later on, at her house, i asked her if we could talk, and she said "leave or im calling the cops!"

I didn't do anything to deserve this! But still i care about her and want to talk to her. What do you all make of this?

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Originally posted by gmccookny

Ok, I still can't believe how on-point all you peeps are, maybe you can advise my Smurf ass:

I've been with this girl, nik, on and off for 2 years.

Over those 2 years we have taken breaks, dated outside, only to get back together. We both knew something wasn't right, either she wasn't ready to commit or something else. (keep in mind, she also made the decision to wait to sleep with someone until she gets married after the fact of sleeping w/3 guys b4 me)

So she is a little screwy, but i have been patient and understanding of her plight. She has told me how she really likes me, but at times wondered if we should just be friends.

Then this past weekend, she invited me over for dinner. Things were fine, but then we went to this park where park rangers were standing guard. They asked us where we lived, and i said "Mamaroneck" (i don't) i said a little white-lie, and she got furious. She said "i don't want to go to the park" and didn't want to take me out for dinner either.

I was shocked, and speechless. Then later on, at her house, i asked her if we could talk, and she said "leave or im calling the cops!"

I didn't do anything to deserve this! But still i care about her and want to talk to her. What do you all make of this?

dood she sounds like a psycho, anyone who thhreatens to call the cops over something so stupid is obviously a nut. my advice is to stay away... there are too many fish in the sea to be wrapped up with one that you feel shakey about. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by somebitch

dood she sounds like a psycho, anyone who thhreatens to call the cops over something so stupid is obviously a nut. my advice is to stay away... there are too many fish in the sea to be wrapped up with one that you feel shakey about. :rolleyes:

You know you're right. It's so hard to admit, but after this, it makes me think she's a bit mental or something.

It just sucks b/c she thinks she can do anything, and never returns my calls. She even said "Don't expect me to call you" :jawdrop:

i feel so used

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Originally posted by gmccookny

i feel so used

And lemme guess -- if you ever try to point out what she might be doing wrong, somehow you always end up with the spotlight right back on you, and you end up feeling shitty for even bringing it up in the first place?

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Originally posted by hoke

And lemme guess -- if you ever try to point out what she might be doing wrong, somehow you always end up with the spotlight right back on you, and you end up feeling shitty for even bringing it up in the first place?

You got it. I called her ridiculous for doing what she did, and immediately she rekalled that comment and said i have to work on myself.

It's like she built up a brick wall around her mind, and is yelling "nyaa nyaa nyaa, i don;t hear you" while believing she is always right.

:rolleyes:

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Oh, and another reply to your oigional post hoke, is that

people change, and you only see their true colors after time.

You might want to rekindle those original feelings and

personalities of the person, but they only showed you a front for what they really are. And you can keep hoping for those good times, or let go and realize that they're not all that.

(Keep in mind this doesn't apply to everyone, just ex boyfriends and girlfriends ;).)

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Originally posted by gmccookny

You know you're right. It's so hard to admit, but after this, it makes me think she's a bit mental or something.

It just sucks b/c she thinks she can do anything, and never returns my calls. She even said "Don't expect me to call you" :jawdrop:

i feel so used

thats the feeling that keeps you crawling back. i bet you want her to want u even though deep inside you know shes not for you. it hurts when someone you think cares about you shows that they dont and for some reason it makes u want them to want u & that becomes the goal, to make you feel better about "feeling used". make yourself feel better by not answering her calls and doing other things that actually make you happy.

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Originally posted by somebitch

thats the feeling that keeps you crawling back. i bet you want her to want u even though deep inside you know shes not for you. it hurts when someone you think cares about you shows that they dont and for some reason it makes u want them to want u & that becomes the goal, to make you feel better about "feeling used". make yourself feel better by not answering her calls and doing other things that actually make you happy.

exactly.... its a lot harder to walk away from a situation feeling hurt, used, and not wanted... its not much easier to try to change that person and get them to feel the way u want them to feel about u.... but it feels better. esp when it works... or so u think. and its a challenge... and people definitely get a rise out of challenges... but in my experiences, u cant change people. people r the way they r from the beginning. it just takes certain situations and opportunities to reveal it. but that doesnt just mean theyre all 'bad' from the beginning... u know what i mean..

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Originally posted by somebitch

i bet you want her to want u even though deep inside you know shes not for you. it hurts when someone you think cares about you shows that they dont

BINGO! And that's why my friend and I were talking about "validation" -- it can be hard to stomach the idea that someone would not treat us as well as we deserve, so we maintain our denial in the hopes that the person will "come around" and acknowledge how wonderful we are.

Not gonna happen.

EDIT: Also what linabina said -- very hard to walk away with that feeling of rejection.

EDIT EDIT: Old Skool Legend!!! :eek:

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