Pack It Up Miami/sobe, I Told You Its Ova, And It Is...

[Guest saleen351]

SPACE WILL BE THE LAST ONE STANDING... LAUDERDALE JUST OPENED, UP THEIR VERSION OF THE PATIO, AND IT WAS PHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT! DOESN'T HAVE THE VIBE OF THE PATIO, BUT IN TIME, IT COULD OR WILL. LEVEL, CROBAR ARE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH TALENT IS COMMMING TO LAUDERDALE. YOU GUYS HAVE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IDEA, THE SHIT THAT IS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES. I NEW SOMETHING WAS UP, WHEN SOMEONE KEPT ASKING ME QUESTIONS ABOUT LAUDERDALE WEEKS AGO... THINGS ARE IN MOTION, JUST GIVE IT A LITTLE TIME. MAJOR LEAGUE ARTISTS ARE COMMING. THE CLUBS ARE COMMING, THE PATIO IS HERE.... THE WOMEN ARE TOP NOTCH, AND THERE IS NO PARKING PROBLEMS, OR BLING BLING PROBLEMS... CHEEPER, BUT NOT CHEAP. CLUBS ARE RAISNG PRICES A BIT, BUT ANY ECON MAJOR WILL TELL YOU, IN THE LONG RUN PRICES WILL FALL WHEN A MARKET IS A PURE COMPETITIVE MARKET. SO WHILE THESE MIAMI CLUBS ARE STRUGGLING LAUDERDALE IS VIBRANT AND ALIVE AND KICKING... NICE TO SEE XXXXX ON THE PATIO AT THE STAR BAR... WE HAVE TO GET TOGETHER AGAIN, IT WAS GREAT CHATTING WITH YOU. YOU KNOW YOUR SHIT... YOUR BOY WILL DO FINE, AND IF HE COMES TO LAUDERDALE, WHICH I HOPE AND I'LL PUT IN MY GOOD WORD, I WILL BRING A CREW 20 DEEP....

IN NO WAY, AM I DISRESECING ROLAND, OR BIZ, OR OSCAR, THEY ARE ALL TALENTED AND ROLAND AND OSCAR BOTH ARE IN MY TOP 5 FOR DJS..., BUT EVEN GOD AND MOSSES, MAY NOT SAVE GOOD OLE MIAMI... SOBE IS DONE!!! THATS A FACT, MAZE WILL BE OUT OF BUSINESS IN 6 WEEKS... BUT IF IT DOES DECENT, SPACE AND CROBAR AND LEVEL ARE ALL GONNA BE RUNNING WITH THIN CROWDS... I PREDICTED THIS MONTHS AGO.. BUT ALL YOU SO CALLED "EXPERTS' TOLD ME I WAS CRAZY... SPIN WAS HORRID LAST FRIDAY... OSCAR WAS GOOD, NOTHING CRAZY, BUT GOOD, BUT THE CROWD, LACK OF GIRLS ETC, THAT PLACE IS JUST TERRIBLE... I RATHER PAY SOMEONE TO KICK ME IN THE BALLS THEN GO BACK TO CROBAR, LEVEL, OR SPIN... SOMEHOW THE DRINKS, WENT TO 9 BUCKS BUT THEY WERE ADVERTISED 4 DOLLARS TO 2AM... TYPICAL SOBE GARBAGE... THE OLD, "WE HAVE ON OF THE BEST DJS IN THE COUNTRY PLAYING, SO FUCK IT, THE DRINKS WILL BE FULL PRICE, NOT 4 DOLLARS.."

STYKE, NICE TALKING TO YOU ON FRIDAY... YOUR MAJOR PROBLEM IS THAT YOU ARE TOO TALENTED FOR MIAMI, AND SPACIOUS AIN'T GIVING YOU A SHOT...THERE IS MORE THEN ENOUGH ROOM OVER AT SPACE FOR YOU, ROLAND AND OSCAR... COUGH COUGH FIRE BELLINI COUGH COUGH...

GOOD LUCK WHERE EVER YOU GO...

AT FIRST I WASN'T SURE TO BELIVE THE RUMOR THAT THE WMC MAY GET MOVED TO ANOTHER CITY... BUT I ASKED AROUND AND SOME HIGH UP PEOPLE ALL SAID THE SAME THING... THOUGH THIS YEARS, I'M POSTIVE IS HERE IN MIAMI, BUT IN THE FUTURE, MIAMI MAY LOOSE THE BID TO HOLD IT IN VEGAS...

VODOO WAS PACKED TONIGHT

SUTRA WAS PACKED, AND MILLION DOLLAR RENOVATIONS ARE COMMING

STAR BAR, IS LOOKING REALLY GOOD, MADE SOME ROOKIE MISTAKES TONIGHT, BUT HAS A OPURTUNITY TO BE SOME THING SPECIAL. THEY NEED TO HIRE BIZ OVER THERE, HIM AND ROLAND WOULD BE THE KINGS OF LAUDERDALE. I'LL PUT UP A OFFCIAL REVEIW TOMMROW ABOUT THE ROOKIE MISTAKES, BUT THE DJ, IF THEY KEEP HIM, COULD BE A REALLY GOOD FIT.. THE MANAGMENT ASSHOLES KEPT FUCKING WITH HIS SET...

RUSH WAS OFF THE HIZ HOOK WITH PIGEONS..

I SAW AT LEAST 20 PLAYMATE MATERIAL FEMALES WALKING AROUND... A GOOD 1000 HOT CHICKS EVERY WHERE..

SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY I GO TO MIAMI TO PARTY? IF IT WASN'T FOR OSCAR, AND ROLAND, AND BIZ AND A FEW OTHERS, MY CREW WOULD NOT GO... I GO OUT FOR THE BEATS, BUT THE BEATS ARE REALLY GOOD IN LAUDERDALE. HEARD DARK BEAT AT 3 PLACES, LOL, AND LOTS OF OTHER GOOD TRACKS...

SALEEN OUT!!!!!!!!!

PS I TOLD YOU DAVE, YOU NEVER LISTENED TO ME, BUT NOW I'M SURE YOU WILL.... ITS A RACE, CAUSE THE OTHER 2 GUYS ARE GONNA DO IT SOON... FIRST ONE, WINS THE SUPPORT OF MANY PEOPLE...

[james954]

dream all you want. take it from a REAL veteran. lauderdale will NEVER happen....

[james954]

by the way, if you really had a clue... or any REAL inside info, you'd know that conference will never move to vegas. go on and keep believeing all the rumors. it does not make economic sense. one day an idiot from outside of LA (or NJ for that matter) will be able to figure that out. in 2 years, when you finally get a clue, email me. i'll let you know what's really going on in the music industry. until you catch up.....

[kurtisp]

Ft Lauderdale

[funketeer]

Ft Lauderdale???

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by james954

by the way, if you really had a clue... or any REAL inside info, you'd know that conference will never move to vegas. go on and keep believeing all the rumors. it does not make economic sense. one day an idiot from outside of LA (or NJ for that matter) will be able to figure that out. in 2 years, when you finally get a clue, email me. i'll let you know what's really going on in the music industry. until you catch up.....

well explain to me, why it doesn't make "economic sense" to have it in vegas.. Remember now I have a B.S. in qualitative econ...

I'll be waiting for your response...

[diegonyc]

saleen, which HIGH people are giving you this kind of classified information? share the wealth. i want some of that stuff they're smoking too!

[benyndajets]

Sorry but Ft.lauderdale will continue to be irrelevant. No matter how many hot chicks,how many cool dj's you bring, it won't make a difference. Too many reasons to mention. One of them is. No one of any importance in the music biz comes to Florida to hit the Ft.Lauderdale strip. Its a totaly wack place, mostly consisting of drunk rednecks wearing Harley Davidson bandanas and boxer underwear as shorts. Also, if you think Miami does not support its scene, wait till thursday rolls around in good ole Lauderdale. Tumble weed city. Lauderdale will always be the Jersey of South florida, its ok,but the real action is always in the city. The city in this case being Miami.

[voluptuary]

Saleen is right about the newly opened Star Bar. Was there last night as well -- definitely a quality atmosphere with some alpha-peps. The point about Ft. Laud's being potentional rival to Miami/SoBe is a non-issue. Lauderdale is a great place to party, and offers those who live in Broward or Palm Beach a completely satisfactory alternative to trekking to Miami. I doubt it will ever rival Miami in terms of quantity, but the thing about Ft Lauderdale is that everthing is located in a relatively small piece of real estate (let's discount the pitiful scene out by the beach). That makes for some elbow-rubbing, but it also makes for quite a spectacle. Whereas everything in Miami/SoBe is spread out, you don't get that special element of concentrated humanity, which -- let's admit -- goes to the very essence of nightlife pleasure. Miami won't ever be obsolete. I don't forsee either a Space, Crobar, Level, Opium etc. coming this far north. Those venues are unique in South Florida. The best Lauderdale has is Voodoo, Sutra on a good night... nothing to scoff at, but..... ..and the neighboring bars have a sort of populated charm, but if you're not looking for the whole refugee camp experience, maybe it's not for you. However, i agree with your assesment of the welcomed addition.

[pod]

South Beach itself is slack nowadays sure...the elements Saleen describe do exist, and annoy the shit out of me too. But I doubt FTL will give the place a run for the money. First off, several of the new venues on the beach are doing it right in terms of marketing and bookings. I can assure you that most of the new venues on the beach will not have a hip-hop area or night for instance...that element is reaching oversaturation, so most places are starting to turn down events of that line...

Downtown is going to explode, as if it hasn't already. I took my life into my own hands and went for a little walk last night before I went inside Space. There's no less than 4 or 5 construction projects on the board, including Nocturnal (the new Space), which is still on track for a late December opening. Saleen, that place alone will keep you coming down here every weekend.

[laliux]

Saleen has good points but thinking that Ft. Lauderdale will replace Miami is going a little too far. Ft. Lauderdale needs to get on the map first and then see if it can be better than Miami. I, personally, will never go up there when I have South Beach closer but if I do is for other reasons.

[Guest saleen351]

pod, I always enjoy your posts. While others make pissing smilies, they back it up with no real opinions or facts, but you do, and I know you are in the know..

I like the opinions on this thread. (for the ones that can type more then a smiley pissing)

LET ME ASK YOU GUYS THIS: IF A BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG TIME DJ, CAME TO A LAUDERDALE CLUB AND:

COVER WAS 10 BUCKS

TONS OF HOT CHICKS

GOOD SOUND SYSTEM

FRIENDLY STAFF

CHEEPER DRINKS

GREAT PARKING

NO GHETTO BOYS

THE OPTION TO DRINK ON THE STREET AND WALK AROUND

THE OPTION TO LEAVE THE CLUB AND HIT UP THE OTHER 30 VENUES THEN COME BACK (80% of the places have no cover)

PARTY TILL 5AM

CHANGE OF SCENERY

DIFFERENT FACES AND DIFFERENT CROWD

NOT A DRUG DRIVEN CROWD

WHERE PEOPLE JUST LET GO AND DON'T HAVE THE LOOK AT ME ATTITUDE

WHERE YOU WALK RIGHT IN THE CLUB, AND THE CLUB APPRECIATES YOUR BUSINES..

ETC

WOULD YOU GO?

IF NO, THEN WHY NOT?

in the end, how many people from this board, have partied in lauderdale in the last 4 weeks? Bascially none, except my crew.. Maybe some of you miami heads, should take a 20 min trip up here, and try something different.. Maybe then, and only then, can you say lauderdale sucks... Until then your word means nothing. Its like saying the new BMW 740 sucks, but never taking a test drive... past experience is meaningless. 5 years ago sobe was hot when i first got there, but boy have times changed..

*ps, none of my djs are booked yet in lauderdale. We are working on somethings, but all things are on hold, for a few weeks.. so all my points and questions are not driven by any finacial or business ploy. i get nothing out of booking these guys, just good beats..

[sobeton]

ft. Lauderdale (broward), does not have the audience to sustain clubs. clubs must rely on sources outside of the immediate area, for support. people in miami ( dade county) will not travel to ft. Lauderdale to go clubbing. they have no reason too, everything they need in terms of a true clubbing experience, are literally in their backyards. in fact people in palm beach, etc bypass ft. Lauderdale, on they’re way to hit up miami clubs. as far as SOBE goes, they are reinventing themselves again. you have major construction booming on the beach, and certain areas getting a whole new makeover. even going thru this growth stage, SOBE still maintains its status as the top tourist destination in florida. as far as the bad element in SOBE, just as Rudy cleaned up times square. David Dermer (miami beach mayor) will do the same for SOBE; after all it was at the cornerstone of his campaign. you would be surprised to see what ordinances; are pending approval from the miami beach commission.

[voluptuary]

You've certainly not off base Saleen. Miami/SoBe will always be the Shangri-la for the moonstruck DJ worshippers who would rather see their favorite spin-meister work the decks than see legions of dishy females work their DECKS.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by sobeton

ft. Lauderdale (broward), does not have the audience to sustain clubs. clubs must rely on sources outside of the immediate area, for support. people in miami ( dade county) will not travel to ft. Lauderdale to go clubbing. they have no reason too, everything they need in terms of a true clubbing experience, are literally in their backyards. in fact people in palm beach, etc bypass ft. Lauderdale, on they’re way to hit up miami clubs. as far as SOBE goes, they are reinventing themselves again. you have major construction booming on the beach, and certain areas getting a whole new makeover. even going thru this growth stage, SOBE still maintains its status as the top tourist destination in florida. as far as the bad element in SOBE, just as Rudy cleaned up times square. David Dermer (miami beach mayor) will do the same for SOBE; after all it was at the cornerstone of his campaign. you would be surprised to see what ordinances; are pending approval from the miami beach commission.

You are right that the dade boys dont' come up here. The thing is, no one gave them a reason to. But they are going to. What I want all of you people to understand is that: The greatest peace time expansion in our economy started in march of 91 and ran threw 2001. South beach was the destination for the rich, and the newly rich, and the "we think we are going to keep making this kind dirty cash" crowd. People skipped lauderdale, they skipped the jersey shore. Now the hamptons are dead, nj shore is rocking again, sobe is dead and lauderdale (the nj shore of florida) is picking up. Makes you wonder. From a economic sense, sobe priced itself out of main stream tourisim... People cant afford that place.. Its the avg guys like me and you that make those places what they are.. Tone, come out with us one night... You'll have a blast... if you open your mind..

voluptuary: did you see the girls in star bar last night? WOW

:eek:

[quest4sunrise]

I don't know if Ft. Lauderdale will run Miami into the ground or anything, but it is getting to be nice. I don't know too much about it, but I went to Mercury Lounge last night to see David Padilla and it was nice as hell. Cheap cover and drinks, fun crowd, and overall, a nice new experience. They alone are getting Taucher, DJ Icey (CAN'T WAIT), and Edgar in the next few weeks. Big thanks to Greg for introducing me to Padilla, I'm horrible with shit like that because I'm easily starstruck. Oh and, good God, how nice was that girl you were with?!?! Anyways, It is getting much better

[voluptuary]

few other points

Don't know of a place in FTL that stays open past 4. Where could Miami's Space cadets go for a 6th, 7th, 8th straight hour of dancing into the early morn? No 24 hr liquor licence in FTL.

You're also dead on about their being no door manure. You definitely get no shit at the pearly gates.

[voluptuary]

voluptuary: did you see the girls in star bar last night? WOW

NO SHIT. Patrons aside. How bout the bartendress in the cowboy hat at the back bar....Good god

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by voluptuary

voluptuary: did you see the girls in star bar last night? WOW

NO SHIT. Patrons aside. How bout the bartendress in the cowboy hat at the back bar....Good god

that was our bar... we sat there and gazed in amazment... who dates these broads?? I need to know their secret... best looking staff period...

I agree with your 24 hour point abou FTL, but lauderdale is a drinking crowd, by 4am every one is throwing up and wasted and ready to go home or to get some ass, miami is a drug driven crowd that likes to stay up till all crazy hours...

[voluptuary]

yep. like that Miami legend Tony "Scarface" Montana used to say...."First you get the drugs, then you get the power, then you get the weeeemen" or something close to that.....

btw, who was the DJ? (like it mattered)

[sobeton]

Originally posted by saleen351

You are right that the dade boys dont' come up here. The thing is, no one gave them a reason to. But they are going to. What I want all of you people to understand is that: The greatest peace time expansion in our economy started in march of 91 and ran threw 2001. South beach was the destination for the rich, and the newly rich, and the "we think we are going to keep making this kind dirty cash" crowd. People skipped lauderdale, they skipped the jersey shore. Now the hamptons are dead, nj shore is rocking again, sobe is dead and lauderdale (the nj shore of florida) is picking up. Makes you wonder. From a economic sense, sobe priced itself out of main stream tourisim... People cant afford that place.. Its the avg guys like me and you that make those places what they are.. Tone, come out with us one night... You'll have a blast... if you open your mind..

voluptuary: did you see the girls in star bar last night? WOW

:eek:

Nick I agree with you somewhat, but Miami Beach is repositioning itself. the goal from what I have seen, and read is for Miami Beach to go after the high end tourist dollars. you need not go any further then Lincoln Road; or Collins Avenue to witness that. almost every major fashion designer has a shop on SOBE; Lincoln Road has basically become a mall with over priced cafes and restaurants to match .Miami Beach is also seeking to lure major companies to the beach, there are three major office buildings going up on the beach. sobe is not pricing them selves out of the market; they are strategically positioning themselves to go after a particular segment of the tourist and business market. while I think that kind of pushes people, in the middle a little further away, in the end it will help SOBE to prosper. also remember you have downtown miami lurking in the background, although the pace for it’s growth has been slow. I think it will eventually take off. all these factors severely impact how successful ft. Lauderdale will be, as destination for not only people seeking nightlife alternatives, but attracting tourist as well .

I'll be up to checkout FTLD soon. I haven't been to a club in lauderdale since The Edge closed..

[funketeer]

Originally posted by saleen351

well explain to me, why it doesn't make "economic sense" to have it in vegas.. Remember now I have a B.S. in qualitative econ...

I'll be waiting for your response...

Apparently, and I have come to this conclussion after checking Las Vegas on the internet, nothing that even resembles a Winter Music Conference of electronic music is advertised in any of their activities; their demographics are very well determined, mostly young adults and a dominant crowd of over 50 years of age, make it a unlikely venue.

Prices for accomodations are way higher than Miami's and the city already holds hotels at their full capacity every single night of the year.

ps.

get the funk out!

Ahhh...La Vegas, how I dream of you

-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-<0>-

Thanks to all of you who participated in making WMC 2002 a huge success!

Delegates from more than 60 countries were in attendance at WMC. Exhibiting increased by more than 20% while the 32 panels, seminars and workshops showed better-than-ever attendance – indicating heightened interest in WMC as a platform addressing issues that affect the music industry today.

If you want to receive updated info about W.M.C. 2003 click here

[james954]

funketeer is starting on the right page there. firstly WMC is based in south florida, offices and all. to think that it would be an easy task to pick up and move off to vegas is insane. the conference has been thrown by locals in the local south florida area since day 1.

if you do a bit of research you will see that 92% of all delegates of the conference come from the USA/Europe/UK/latin America. with the USA making up the majority ranging from 69-72%. followed closely by Europe/UK 20-22%. all stats taken from multiple past WMC's literature. now i don't have the EXACT statistics but i do know for a fact that the majority of USA delegates come from the east coast. it's cheap to fly to miami from atlanta, jersey, nyc, boston, wash dc etc. miami is a lot cheaper and easier to attend for people coming over from Europe. to expect at least 75% of the current delegates to fly extra hours and pay anywhere from $150-300 more in airfare alone for a weeklong trip to vegas makes no sense for them as a consumer. especially the Europians! they'll just save their $$ and go to Ibiza instead. so right there they are excluding almost 20% of paying delegates. that's a pretty heafty chunk of change from europe alone. that does not include the east coast delegates that will avoid for the extended travel cost reason alone. automatically that is a HUGE decrease in paying delegate #'s.

the majority of the appeal of miami is the south beach area itself. i know it has no charm to you saleen, but you my friend on an international level are way in the minority on that. miami has the beaches, the quaint poolside parties. the small venues to pull off the much needed lower end record label parties that, contrary to popular belief, make up a majority of the over 70+ advertised parties that happen in miami during those 5-6 days. people come to miami to party and go to the beach in march. period. people go to vegas to pick up hookers and gamble.

vegas does not have the proper venues. they may have a lot of venues in the town, but they do not have what it takes to do a conference of this type. all of their venues are built inside of hotels and run by hotel management, and do you think the hotels are going jump to let outside promotes interfere w/ how they run events there? very doubtful. hotel managers are there to generate money in the casinos, not to be bothered w/ music industry people coming to town w/ agenda's other than gaming.

vegas hotels will never support poolside parties in the way that miami does. miami beach is a city pretty much built around clubbing for the past 15 years. when people come to miami, they know there is a certain degree of noise they will have to put up with, especially in march. can you see them being able to put up a PA system by a pool in march in vegas and not have the trailor park elvis listening throngs in vegas up in arms? if you've ever been to vegas, you know what i mean.

weather. (assuming that conference being held the last week of march every year) average high temp in las vegas the last week in march: 72 degrees. average low is: 49 degrees. not exacly beach weather is it? and that is the warmest time of the month in vegas! there is still a risk of snow in vegas in march. (yes it does snow in vegas). now we have miami beach. same time period. average high: 82 degrees. average low: 65. 10-15 degree difference. all stats taken from weather.com. now you may see this as irrelevent, but trust me when i say that you sell at least 75% of the east coast and Europian delegates on the weather alone. it's a business holiday in the sun for them. do you really think that many industry people come over here for the conference by itself? they come for the nice weather and a chance to lay on the beach. 2 major things vegas can not supply. the conference and it's parties are the excuse to justify it.

bottom line, if you factor in all these issues and the fact that the economy isn't doing well, and that attendence was down last year and i expect it to be down even more this year. the fact that at least 50% of the current delegates and people that come to miami just to party will not go or pay to go the extra distance out west. the east coast and Europe delegate attendence will significantly decrease . the lure of vegas isn't all that to seriously consider a cross country move. it would be the biggest mistake they could make. it would be commiting "economic" suicide for them.

[Guest saleen351]

james954

very good post, you have a lot of valid points...

[james954]

now about lauderdale. i have lived in south florida for over 12 years now. over 5 years time spent living in miami and currently residing in downtown lauderdale. i have seen promoter after promoter attempt things in downtown lauderdale. including bliss on more than one occasion bringing in significant talent. the broward masses do not care about dance music. broward consists of white middle class 21-30 somethings. none of these demographics care what the dj is playing. and as stated in a previous post, they are all concerned with getting drunk, getting laid, or throwing up. usually in that order. lauderdale has offered many things from time to time, but nobody up here cares because they are all to focused on the "bar" scene. they are fine listening to a slew of pearl jam cover bands or the latest greatest 2 year old power 96 anthems at one of MANY indoor/outdoor venues. the only venue in recent history to market itself as a music venue was the old edge. i think the only reason it was sucessful from 94-98 was the fact that it was all ages to get in after 4:30am (yes saleen before you ever even steped in a club, broward was open til whenever). when the edge became chili pepper, they changed it up a bit with the new laws and all (except they completely ruined what was possibly the best club layout in florida). yet they were still pretty successful. til this day the music they marketed then is the same shit that works in lauderdale today. dj icey/old school breaks. period end of story. that is the only dj "name" that will draw in a club in lauderdale. the other places just fill up cause it looks like they have some "hot chicks in there!" lame.

bliss brought in parks and wilson, anthony pappa, trendroid etc. nobody turned up. it's sad. but it's also a fact. music does not draw in lauderdale. there are no standards in lauderdale and the majority of club goers are tourists from jersey and we all know how low their standards are. yo. it's been like that for to many years now, and it will not ever change.