cintron Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 all i have to say is... "what the fuck""Iraqi teenagers dragged two bloodied U.S. soldiers from a wrecked vehicle and pummeled them with concrete blocks Sunday, witnesses said, describing the killings as a burst of savagery in a city once safe for Americans. Witnesses to the Mosul attack said gunmen shot two soldiers driving through the city center, sending their vehicle crashing into a wall. The 101st Airborne Division said the soldiers were driving to another garrison. About a dozen swarming teenagers dragged the soldiers out of the wreckage and beat them with concrete blocks, the witnesses said."The rest of the story I think this is bullshit. People over there have a penchant for savagery that would land us global resentment if we did a FRACTION of the things they do. And yet we're helping recreate a society for them, trying to rebuild what we broke...goddammit this shit pisses me off. Where's our force protection? Why are people dragging their feet about this bullshit?I"m sure there will be a reprisal raid and they'll arrest some people but it won't do shit.I"m fucking fed up when i see shit like this happening to our soldiers, all done by a bunch of people who don't give a fuck who rules their country apparently.By all goddamn means we could murder dissidents like Saddam did. At least when he was in power, NONE OF THIS BULLSHIT was tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpyrate Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 If some other country came here and imposed a miltary rule over us ... even if it was to rid us of G Dumbya bush I would do the exact same thing to the soldiers occupying us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted November 24 Author Report Share Posted November 24 glad to know that you dont care about our soldiers dying, because this is all fair play to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by cintron glad to know that you dont care about our soldiers dying, because this is all fair play to you. its one thing not to care about the soldiers over there, its another to explain the situation. Everything isn't so cut and dry.Yes, its very sad what happend to those soldiers, but you have to realize they are in foreign hostile territory.just like x said, they are an occupying force and some iraqis do not want them to be there.Just because we explain the situation doesnt mean we dont care for the troops. I find it horrifying to beleive that 20-22 year olds are dying every day alll for an unjust war.IT is very sad.-XeNo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by djxeno just like x said, they are an occupying force and some iraqis do not want them to be there. i hear what ur saying i agree...whether ur there for the RIGHT or WRONG reasons, people will see u as an occupying force and take u out...but has this thought ever crossed their minds? maybe if they TRIED to keep the violence down to a minimum and actually try to HELP in the capture of some of the violent trouble makers, the US can leave quicker and maybe the Iraqis can get back to some kind of normal life? let the Iraqis form their govt', alllow the US (for now) to help in the police/security force, form ur constitution and eventually vote ur leaders in...once a normal govt' is made and the people can vote, let em choose...whether it be a democratic form of govt' or another form that best suites them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 They are trying, but the ones who help the U.S. become targets for violence as well. You have to remember that it is the Shites who are helping the U.S., the Sunnis are still fiercly loyal to Saddaam.THe U.S. is trying to set up the Iraqi goverment and there isnt even one Sunni on there. That is not democratic and that is why they are getting pissed off i guess.-XeNo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by djxeno They are trying, but the ones who help the U.S. become targets for violence as well. You have to remember that it is the Shites who are helping the U.S., the Sunnis are still fiercly loyal to Saddaam.THe U.S. is trying to set up the Iraqi goverment and there isnt even one Sunni on there. That is not democratic and that is why they are getting pissed off i guess. i hear ya...i guess its hard to trust or allow a Sunni into govt' knowing that they were/are loyal to Saddam...but ur right it isnt too Democratic...but like i said, maybe if the Sunni's turned it down a couple of notches, something could happen...i guess its a "lose/lose" situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 i hear what ur saying i agree...whether ur there for the RIGHT or WRONG reasons, people will see u as an occupying force and take u out...but has this thought ever crossed their minds? maybe if they TRIED to keep the violence down to a minimum and actually try to HELP in the capture of some of the violent trouble makers, the US can leave quicker and maybe the Iraqis can get back to some kind of normal life? let the Iraqis form their govt', alllow the US (for now) to help in the police/security force, form ur constitution and eventually vote ur leaders in...once a normal govt' is made and the people can vote, let em choose...whether it be a democratic form of govt' or another form that best suites them... I think Israel has been trying to use that same logic with the palestinians. "Keep the violence down and we'll take care of you." I don't think think they've reached out to the iraqi people. Our military has killed over 6,000 civilians at amnesty's internationals most conservative estimate. That's why these kids are pissed. Don't get me wrong...what they've done is grotesteque and deplorable but try understanding the desperation that we've driven these people to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 I think Israel has been trying to use that same logic with the palestinians. "Keep the violence down and we'll take care of you." I don't think think they've reached out to the iraqi people. Our military has killed over 6,000 civilians at amnesty's internationals most conservative estimate. That's why these kids are pissed. Don't get me wrong...what they've done is grotesteque and deplorable but try understanding the desperation that we've driven these people to. i strongly disagree about the Americans not "reaching out"...they have been in talks with the Iraqi police force and with leaders of the community...i agree with the civilian death has something to do with the Iraqis being pissed...but guess what? most of the attacks are FROM CIVILIANS...so what are soldiers to do? again...if they Iraqis would help a little bit more, i believe the death count would go down...these people have to realize, that if most of the attacks on US soliders are coming from civilians, the military is a bit edgy and nervous...its only natural...for Iraq to become truly free, the people of Iraq must help...if they dont help...its going to be a long road to normality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Most of the attacks are from civilians now but when the war started remember how the U.S. used excessive force to murder civilians.Don't forget our glorious "Shock and Awe" Campaign which wasn't necessary, we should have just called it "Watch out! We are gonna bomb the shit out of you" Campaign. Also, the U.S. are dropping one and two ton bombs on targets that don't need that kind of firepower to be destroyed.and lets not forget the cluster bombs. It's the U.S. fault all those civilians died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 again...war brings in some civilian deaths...i am not pushing it aside as if they dont matter...but u cannot be naive and think that some civilians would die...remember in the beginning of the war, there were many dressed as civilians shooting at US soldiers...this tactic has been going around and around..much like this issue...right the US cant do anything but take hits on their soldiers and try to strike when they have a chance...again...peace must come from within Iraq...i just dont see many Iraqis helping themselves on getting the Americans out ASAP...they are actually hindering that from happening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 again...war brings in some civilian deaths...i am not pushing it aside as if they dont matter...but u cannot be naive and think that some civilians would die...remember in the beginning of the war, there were many dressed as civilians shooting at US soldiers...this tactic has been going around and around..much like this issue...right the US cant do anything but take hits on their soldiers and try to strike when they have a chance...again...peace must come from within Iraq...i just dont see many Iraqis helping themselves on getting the Americans out ASAP...they are actually hindering that from happening... i know civilains will die. however, 6000 (a pretty generous number) is not SOME. it is a really huge amount and all of those deaths could have been prevented if the U.S. didn't want to showboat. Remember that on sept 11th 2000 ppl died and look how much chaos that caused. can u imagine 4 times that amount?you are right, it looks like iraqis arent helping...i think they want the u.s. out as fast as possible so they can do the work themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by djxeno i know civilains will die. however, 6000 (a pretty generous number) is not SOME. sure it sounds like a lot, however i bet its only a fraction of a percent of the entire population... not that that justifies killing but its a realistic way of looking at it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 i strongly disagree about the Americans not "reaching out"...they have been in talks with the Iraqi police force and with leaders of the community...i agree with the civilian death has something to do with the Iraqis being pissed...but guess what? most of the attacks are FROM CIVILIANS...so what are soldiers to do? again...if they Iraqis would help a little bit more, i believe the death count would go down...these people have to realize, that if most of the attacks on US soliders are coming from civilians, the military is a bit edgy and nervous...its only natural...for Iraq to become truly free, the people of Iraq must help...if they dont help...its going to be a long road to normality... You're right, I can't generalize that we haven't reached out to them at all because that's not completely true. We have reached out but they're is still a lot of work to be done and I'm not talking about defending oil fields. To start we should apologize for all the civilians we've killed. Then maybe some healing can begin for the iraqi people. As of now, our position according to the state department is "we don't do body counts"Originally posted by dgmodel sure it sounds like a lot, however i bet its only a fraction of a percent of the entire population... not that that justifies killing but its a realistic way of looking at it... I keep wondering, how many thousands of non us civilians have to pay for us to feel safe again after 3 thousand of us have died in this war on terror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 To start we should apologize for all the civilians we've killed. Then maybe some healing can begin for the iraqi people. i am sure we will...but maybe after we leave Iraq...not during occupation...just like, i am sure, Iraq will appologize for killing the US troops that were trying to establish a stable govt' for them (this is sarcasm at its best) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted November 24 Author Report Share Posted November 24 i'm just enraged when i see this stuff.the "6000" civilians supposedly killed in the war seems like a rather nice round number. I"m sure a large chunk of that number should be re-entitled "non-uniformed combatants", i.e. the guy who isnt wearing an army uniform but decides he wants to shoot at US soldiers anyway.still, it's just ridiculous. Incidents such as these serve to highlight the LACK of force protection and when the administration tries to downplay it and sweep it under the rug, it seems like they're more concerned with how it makes them look instead of how to keep their soldiers alive.fucking ridiculous. this is the kind of shit i get to spend my thanksgiving thinking about. goddamn bureaucratics sending soldiers off to war, then covering their own ass when shit goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Vietnam - Part Deux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 well, we have a ridiculous administration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted November 24 Author Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by ghhhhhost Vietnam - Part Deux no joke. that's what it's turning into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 wow!finally..everyone is behaving themselves and respecting each others opinions!this is surely a sign of the apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted November 24 Author Report Share Posted November 24 fuck you, hippie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 I keep wondering, how many thousands of non us civilians have to pay for us to feel safe again after 3 thousand of us have died in this war on terror. and the relevance of this statement to mine is??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted November 24 Report Share Posted November 24 Seems like the soldiers died from gunshot wounds...and were robbed by the locals.http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/24/sprj.irq.main/index.html----------------------------------------------------------------------------------A coalition spokesman told CNN that autopsies on two soldiers killed Sunday in Mosul revealed that both died of gunshot wounds, and their bodies had not been cut nor their throats slashed, contradicting some witness reports. U.S. Army Maj. Trey Cates, a spokesman for the 101st Airborne Division, told CNN the Army's investigation showed their bodies had no stab wounds or slash wounds. The spokesman said the soldiers, traveling in a civilian vehicle, stopped when the car in front of them stopped, and were shot through the front windshield by attackers who jumped out of that car. Locals apparently then dragged the bodies out of their civilian vehicle and stripped them of personal effects, the spokesman said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted November 24 Author Report Share Posted November 24 so a bullet makes it easier to accept than a concrete block?they STILL got hit with concrete blocks in the face AFTER they were dead.one word comes to mind when i picture that: Mogadishu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpyrate Posted November 25 Report Share Posted November 25 Originally posted by cintron glad to know that you dont care about our soldiers dying, because this is all fair play to you. It's not that I don't care, in fact I do. I never inferred that with my post. See the fact is I am against the war. Had Bush listened to me when I protested BEFORE the war started, shit like this wouldn't have happened. More than 400 of our soldiers would still be alive. Which is the reason I was against the war in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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