Interesting Movie

[marksimons]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

CNN Presents: Fit To Kill

Aired October 26, 2003 - 20:00 ET

CROWLEY: Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer.

RIDDLE: Like, man, you guys are dead now, you know. But it was a good feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah!

CROWLEY: When the battle is over and you are still standing, the adrenalin rush is huge.

RIDDLE: I mean, afterwards you're like, hell, yeah, that was awesome. Let's do it again.

[pattbateman]

id rather have them on the front line then you ........what do you think the terrorists say to eachother you dumb ass how can you be so ignorant??????

get real man

[jamiroguy1]

Holy shit!

[marksimons]

did you click the link and watch the movie bateman?

[pattbateman]

im at a library they dont have the software to run it and i cant dl on the library computers.................im sure its compeling!1

ITS A GODDAMN WAR what do you expect

[marksimons]

watch the video then comment.

it's a war, war is not pleasant, but it's also a reason as to why the US does not want to join the International Criminal Court.

do you know some of the war crimes in vietnam?

do you know the number of civilian dead in vietnam bateman?

[igloo]

marksimons.....I can't understand why anyone would think you have an anti-American agenda....

[pattbateman]

i wasnt part of vietnam dude i was not the one giving orders lbj the democrat was then nixon who pulled out was what do you want me to tell you????

i can GAURAN TEEEEEEEEEEE that we treat prisoners better then anyone EVER has

[marksimons]

I still don't get how pointing problems is being anti-american.

let's discuss the issue of war crimes in vietnam.

do you believe any were committed? do you believe officers generals and politicians should be accountable for war crimes? does the mainstream media in america ackowlege what was committed in freedoms name? does the average american even know the rough scale of civilian casualties in that conflict?

igloo. I can't be fucked to have that argument again.

but I just posted a video of those amazing American soldiers laying waste to a piece of EVIL terroist scum. so quit bitching, grab the popcorn and enjoy watching that video of america's bravest and best being all that they can be in historic Iraq the 'cradle of civilisation'...

[pattbateman]

first when did i ever say "anti-american" your not a fuckin american i dont ever remember uttering those words to you or anyone else and war crimes you gotta do what you gotta do. fuck we bombed the shit outta german cities we fuckin blew up hiroshima and nagasaki (spelling??) its war now in prison camps different or like just killing people because your crazy and have no real reason to i can feel you there but those are few and far between

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

I still don't get how pointing problems is being anti-american.

You do more than simply "point" out problems of America...

You are blind.....and again, dumb if you do not understand. Like I said before, I would have more respect for you if you simply admitted this was your platform instead of cloaking yourself in the weak ass "I am simply pointing out problems with America"....

But don't get too excited when I say "respect", because either way, you are still a repulsive cunt....you may be able to fool others through your ramblings about America's ills, but at the end of the day, you are just a fraud

[pattbateman]

what do you think of this story english buddy???

TIKRIT, Iraq (CNN) -- The commanding general of the 4th Infantry Division's on Friday accepted a U.S. military investigator's recommendation and ordered administrative action against Lt. Col. Allen West, who was accused of using improper methods to force information out of an Iraqi detainee.

Following a military hearing, West was fined $5,000 over two months, according to West's civillian attorney, Neal Puckett.

The punishment does not affect West's eligibility for retirement and pension, Puckett said in a statement.

West, 42, will be assigned to the rear detachment of the 4th Infantry Division awaiting the processing of his retirement request, the statement said.

Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the 4th Infantry's top general in Tikrit, could have rejected the recommendation and ordered a court martial. If he were to be found guilty at a court martial of the two articles against him, West could have faced 11 years in prison, a military prosecutor told CNN.

The case stems from an incident August 20 at a military base in Taji, just north of Baghdad, when West was interrogating an Iraqi policeman, who was believed to have information about a plot to assassinate West with an ambush on a U.S. convoy.

In testimony at an Article 32 hearing -- the military's version of a grand jury or preliminary hearing -- West said the policeman, Yahya Jhrodi Hamoody, was not cooperating with interrogators, so he watched four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion beat the detainee on the head and body.

West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel.

Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack.

West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4.

"I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers," West testified to a military courtroom of observers and some teary-eyed troops formerly under his command.

Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."

Puckett argued that because West is always accompanied by U.S. troops that he acted to save American lives.

But while West's supporters call him a hero, military prosecutors said his actions amounted to torture and violated articles 128 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Prosecutor Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska said West should be tried for assault and for communicating a threat. "This is a case about a man who lost his temper," she argued. "There are consequences for [West's] actions."

When West testified that he had "no malice toward Hamoody" and that he "just wanted information," Pezytulska presented a document of West's typed statement following the August incident. She asked him to read his own written words to the court: "In my anger, I couldn't remember how many shots were fired."

After nearly 20 years of military service, West plans to move his family from Texas to Florida, where he said he hopes to start a new life.

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

I still don't get how pointing problems is being anti-american.

does the mainstream media in america ackowlege what was committed in freedoms name? does the average american even know the rough scale of civilian casualties in that conflict?

And shut the fuck up your hypocritical shitbag blowhard.....you could care less about Iraqi civilians, never did and never will...

If so, you and your loser kind should have been in the streets for a decade protesting against Saddam Hussein, the U.N., and the European govts who undermined U.N. sanctions and illegally did business with Iraq.....

You should have been in the streets demanding that Saddam Hussein comply with U.N. resolutions, that Saddam Hussein comply with the 1991 ceasefire agreement, that the U.N.-Iraqi oil program dollars went to the people instead of weapons and palaces, that Saddam Hussein stopped killing innocent civilians and filling mass graves (and not just Shiites)...

Shut the fuck up already fraud........and spare me your predictable spin and babble from your objective "sources" that will point to everything being the U.S. fault...

your a windbag, nothing more

[marksimons]

everything isn't the fault of the US...

religion is in there, men, capitalism and power, that's who I blame for most of the fundamental problems of society...

let's get things straight, the last gulf war, that was in 1991, let me just see how old I was, given that I was born in 1983, shit, that made me about eight.

my parents were out protesting about US nukes on UK soil, and probably protested about UK and US support for saddam in the 70s and 80s.

which resolutions do you mean igloo? which ones throughout the 90s did he flout that I should have been protesting about?

sanctions should have been protested about. rwanda should have been protested about. lots of things deserve protests.

just isn't enough time for it all.

sept 11th was in 2001, I was, 18.

now is my real political awakening.

my problem with the whole saddam iraq situation is that the US supported saddam, helped him to power, and then when the great game moves on a couple more turns, then the rhetoric is turned up and we're having another lovely war!

it's this simple way the world works that really gets up my back, and this mechanism is right now being supported most by the US, with the help of other governments naturally.

for all the talk of freedom, democracyand peace, from most leaders on the world stage, there is precious little in the way of action which seems to back these things up.

we're at an interesting time in history iggy, technology and communications for the mainstream have advanced so much since the first gulf war. I believe this to have had, and will have, many real implications for the political process. Just look back in history, any major increase in the distribution of the written word is generally accompanied by, or part of, political, social transition or reform. ideas, evidence, arguments, all get thrown around, and unless the tools of repression are brought out then things usually advance.

that video is just one example of war, and how it's being conducted. it's fucked up, we rarely see what really goes on in other places.

bateman, well glad they investigated that case, but no jail time?! sure if americans were tortured for info then they'd be some clamouring for jail time, however, I have heard of far worse torture.

oh, you ever heard of the School of the Americas?

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

everything isn't the fault of the US...

religion is in there, men, capitalism and power, that's who I blame for most of the fundamental problems of society...

let's get things straight, the last gulf war, that was in 1991, let me just see how old I was, given that I was born in 1983, shit, that made me about eight.

my parents were out protesting about US nukes on UK soil, and probably protested about UK and US support for saddam in the 70s and 80s.

which resolutions do you mean igloo? which ones throughout the 90s did he flout that I should have been protesting about?

sanctions should have been protested about. rwanda should have been protested about. lots of things deserve protests.

just isn't enough time for it all.

sept 11th was in 2001, I was, 18.

now is my real political awakening.

my problem with the whole saddam iraq situation is that the US supported saddam, helped him to power, and then when the great game moves on a couple more turns, then the rhetoric is turned up and we're having another lovely war!

it's this simple way the world works that really gets up my back, and this mechanism is right now being supported most by the US, with the help of other governments naturally.

for all the talk of freedom, democracyand peace, from most leaders on the world stage, there is precious little in the way of action which seems to back these things up.

we're at an interesting time in history iggy, technology and communications for the mainstream have advanced so much since the first gulf war. I believe this to have had, and will have, many real implications for the political process. Just look back in history, any major increase in the distribution of the written word is generally accompanied by, or part of, political, social transition or reform. ideas, evidence, arguments, all get thrown around, and unless the tools of repression are brought out then things usually advance.

that video is just one example of war, and how it's being conducted. it's fucked up, we rarely see what really goes on in other places.

bateman, well glad they investigated that case, but no jail time?! sure if americans were tortured for info then they'd be some clamouring for jail time, however, I have heard of far worse torture.

oh, you ever heard of the School of the Americas?

Once again, predictable babble from you avoiding the main point....as usual.....and clear lack of reality and perspective

fraud...

[marksimons]

my perspective is about 300 years of history culminating in the actions of the government of a republic that has dominated the world for the past 50 years or so.

I'm sitting just above the earth, floating around, looking at the stars, wondering where humanity will go, looking down through the clouds at america, going about it's business, up to canada, going about their business a bit more relaxed and a bit less paranoid. I look down to south america, see countries trying desperately to escape the shadow of the neighbour to the north, trying to drag their countries up by the bootstraps, having to deal with problems that they've not been able to adress themselves, the legacy of colonial interference on that bloodsoaked continent, from the sacrifices of the incas the blood runs down those amazing pyramids high amongst the mountains, the blood keeps flowing, from the sixteenth century right on, down the stone, splashing away, soaking into the ground, and then in a huge slum the blood oozes out of the ground as the drug dealers and police fight a gun battle, shells troddon into the bloodsoaked ground. then I zoom out again, see the sea sparkling all the way to africa, fly a bit closer then see the blood again, I see a slave ship, stuffed with bodies, I see a cattletruck, I see crematoriums and a cross. I see the tragic history of the russian people after a trainride through europe, I see naplamed children in vietnam, I see sweatshops today, I see rocaware, I see hip pop and corporate america, I see the blood follwing the suvs, the sneakers and red stripes of the flag flowing like viens. I see the earth spinning forward and backwards, history rewinding and replaying, a little more detail here, a little more focus there, events leading into each other, events causing other events, events being referenced, events being changed over time.

I see the roman empire, I see pre-history, I see the first flowerings of civilisation on the banks of mesapotamia, I see the greeks, the concept of citizens, I see the well builed, tanned, naked bodies of the greeks at the first olympics. I see the sponsorship of the olympics today. I wonder what the greeks would make of pro evolution soccer, the laptop on my lap and the way the republic of america is being run.

I see dead people. I see the prostitutes on the way to uni and wonder when the fuck we're gonna recognise their trade. I wonder when we'll legalise weed. I see the protests of the 60s, the acid heads in san francisco, the squares in washington and the guns going to enforce the law in south america. I feel the cocaine from last night slide down my throat and wonder which country it came from. I cast my eyes along the row of cells and wonder how many people are here because of selling drugs. I look at bush and wonder how many lines of coke he did during vietnam. I wonder how many people he has killed. I wonder how many people he has put in prison for selling coke. I see his religion, I see the crusades, I see the inquisition, I see the witch burnings, I see the fear, I see the repression, I see the word of god and the divine right of kings, I see a dutch fudge, I see a world torn asunder, a revolution slowly ignited, I see a realisation that things, can, that things need to change, that things will change. I see a need for new political leaders, I see a need for wanting to make the world a better place, people who value life, liberty and the persuit of happiness, in whatever country, not just citizens of one state, but the rights of the citizens of the world respected and enforced - worldwide.

I see the most powerful country on earth, at the end of a little, but highly profitable run of imperialism, I see generations brought up on anti-communist propoganda, I see a level of debate so low that some times I wish I wasn't taking part, a political process so skewed, but isolated enough so the a large number of participants don't realise, I wish I could slap sense into people, but if I try that I'll probably have to slap them so much I kill them, and what's the point of being enlightened if you're dead?

fuck it.

you disagree with me, you don't get where I'm coming from, or you can't, or you won't, or I'm not explaining myself well enough, whatever it is it seems I can't sway, or change your mind.

i'm gonna keep on doing my shit, you keep on doing yours, and we'll see where the world is at a few years down the line.

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

my perspective is about 300 years of history culminating in the actions of the government of a republic that has dominated the world for the past 50 years or so.

I'm sitting just above the earth, floating around, looking at the stars, wondering where humanity will go, looking down through the clouds at america, going about it's business, up to canada, going about their business a bit more relaxed and a bit less paranoid. I look down to south america, see countries trying desperately to escape the shadow of the neighbour to the north, trying to drag their countries up by the bootstraps, having to deal with problems that they've not been able to adress themselves, the legacy of colonial interference on that bloodsoaked continent, from the sacrifices of the incas the blood runs down those amazing pyramids high amongst the mountains, the blood keeps flowing, from the sixteenth century right on, down the stone, splashing away, soaking into the ground, and then in a huge slum the blood oozes out of the ground as the drug dealers and police fight a gun battle, shells troddon into the bloodsoaked ground. then I zoom out again, see the sea sparkling all the way to africa, fly a bit closer then see the blood again, I see a slave ship, stuffed with bodies, I see a cattletruck, I see crematoriums and a cross. I see the tragic history of the russian people after a trainride through europe, I see naplamed children in vietnam, I see sweatshops today, I see rocaware, I see hip pop and corporate america, I see the blood follwing the suvs, the sneakers and red stripes of the flag flowing like viens. I see the earth spinning forward and backwards, history rewinding and replaying, a little more detail here, a little more focus there, events leading into each other, events causing other events, events being referenced, events being changed over time.

I see the roman empire, I see pre-history, I see the first flowerings of civilisation on the banks of mesapotamia, I see the greeks, the concept of citizens, I see the well builed, tanned, naked bodies of the greeks at the first olympics. I see the sponsorship of the olympics today. I wonder what the greeks would make of pro evolution soccer, the laptop on my lap and the way the republic of america is being run.

I see dead people. I see the prostitutes on the way to uni and wonder when the fuck we're gonna recognise their trade. I wonder when we'll legalise weed. I see the protests of the 60s, the acid heads in san francisco, the squares in washington and the guns going to enforce the law in south america. I feel the cocaine from last night slide down my throat and wonder which country it came from. I cast my eyes along the row of cells and wonder how many people are here because of selling drugs. I look at bush and wonder how many lines of coke he did during vietnam. I wonder how many people he has killed. I wonder how many people he has put in prison for selling coke. I see his religion, I see the crusades, I see the inquisition, I see the witch burnings, I see the fear, I see the repression, I see the word of god and the divine right of kings, I see a dutch fudge, I see a world torn asunder, a revolution slowly ignited, I see a realisation that things, can, that things need to change, that things will change. I see a need for new political leaders, I see a need for wanting to make the world a better place, people who value life, liberty and the persuit of happiness, in whatever country, not just citizens of one state, but the rights of the citizens of the world respected and enforced - worldwide.

I see the most powerful country on earth, at the end of a little, but highly profitable run of imperialism, I see generations brought up on anti-communist propoganda, I see a level of debate so low that some times I wish I wasn't taking part, a political process so skewed, but isolated enough so the a large number of participants don't realise, I wish I could slap sense into people, but if I try that I'll probably have to slap them so much I kill them, and what's the point of being enlightened if you're dead?

fuck it.

you disagree with me, you don't get where I'm coming from, or you can't, or you won't, or I'm not explaining myself well enough, whatever it is it seems I can't sway, or change your mind.

i'm gonna keep on doing my shit, you keep on doing yours, and we'll see where the world is at a few years down the line.

impressive babble and rant I must admit.....and you are clearly a subscriber to National Geographic

And yes, I do disagree with you on most things, in particular your anti-American views (which you fail to recognize), and your elitist, condescending attitude in which you like to show you have somehow cornered the market on deep thought, wordly views, and caring and concern.

And you continually avoid the "point" of discussion to instead go off on your tangents and rants in the hopes of impressing people with your "knowledge" and "insight" of the world we inhabit but are "blind" to its corrupting powers and American induced suffering in the name of a profit.

In any event, I do not think you are a retard. Poor choice of words. I do think you are a miserbale, deplorable cunt with some of the things you have said. I do think you are misguided and a fraud, but perhaps not of your own doing. Interesting you mentioned that being a professional protestor seems to be the family business.

But as you said, you keep on doing your thing, and I will keep on doing mine. And as for your wish about "slapping" people to "wake up" to your views, there are just as made people on the other side of the spectrum, who wish to do the same.

[marksimons]

this is an internet forum, I just spew a whole load of shit here, which is quite theraputic, some posts are better than others for sure.

my attitude is condescending 'cause, well, people are misinformed, or under-informed a lot of the time, but you don't win people over like that, and you don't have a debate like that, but how often do we actually debate here?

to be honest, I'm still trying to refine my views, still gaps in my knowledge and I'm trying to work out what avenues are best to argue with die hard opponents of my view.

if I'm a misguided fraud then what the fuck is bush?

this is a perfect description of him...

professional protesting, I fucking wish...

actual on foot protesting is only one part of it, there's lobbying, influencing people, affecting popular culture, if you want to change the direction of society you need to be in the right place at the right time.

the good thing about the UK is the size of the place, I believe we're well placed to affect very real change, not just in politics, but in society as well. this does have something to do with the internet being the forum for Citizens of the World.

there I am thinking we're being civil and I get called a deplorable cunt.

you're a product of your society, just one of millions like you, similar views, defending them, stubborn and not willing to change, I'm just wondering if it's possible to change your views.

I don't want you to admit that america is the great satan and is the number one evil in the world.

I'd just like it to be realised that things are pretty fucked up, trhat it's not the way things should, or have to be and that they need to be sorted and current policies are not necessarily the best way of securing, well, security, peace, economic stability. The thing is, you cannot get away from the fact that america has, does, and will have a huge effect on the world.

I'd still argue I'm not anti american, it's just that there are quite a few skeletons in the closet...

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

this is an internet forum, I just spew a whole load of shit here, which is quite theraputic, some posts are better than others for sure.

my attitude is condescending 'cause, well, people are misinformed, or under-informed a lot of the time, but you don't win people over like that, and you don't have a debate like that, but how often do we actually debate here?

there I am thinking we're being civil and I get called a deplorable cunt.

you're a product of your society, just one of millions like you, similar views, defending them, stubborn and not willing to change, I'm just wondering if it's possible to change your views.

Interesting that you admit to be condescending....Did you ever think that the people who disagree with you are not misinformed or under-informed....that they simply have a different perspective and approach on the same "informness" (is that a word?)...

Trust me, I believe there are people who are misinformed on this board, and I verbally assault them on that (you may have noticed) and am guilty of being condescending...but I also realize there are those who are not but simply have a differing view and engage in honest debate...

Being uncivil extends beyond calling someone a cunt...some of your Bush and 9/11 thoughts and statements are not civil, but downright insulting, deplorable, and reprehensible.....

And you are equally a product of your society and upbringing, and there are those who wonder if it is possible to change YOUR views.....

Can you see what I am getting at son?.....You should by now

[marksimons]

but I'm still working out what my views are :-)

can I ask you about your knowledge of CIA participation in countries around the world post WWII.

do you know about the coups organised and dictatorships backed by the CIA and other organisations, right up into the 90s?

do you know the higher and lower estemates for civilian death tolls for vietnam?

do you believe american involvement in vietnam helped the country?

do you know anything about agent orange?

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

but I'm still working out what my views are :-)

can I ask you about your knowledge of CIA participation in countries around the world post WWII.

do you know about the coups organised and dictatorships backed by the CIA and other organisations, right up into the 90s?

do you know the higher and lower estemates for civilian death tolls for vietnam?

do you believe american involvement in vietnam helped the country?

do you know anything about agent orange?

First off, nice job avoiding the main topic of discussion, and again, spinning off into your anti-American platform....

Amazing that your answer to everything and anything is something anti-U.S....you really are a blind bastard....

Secondly, yes to your questions. But what is your point--to show that the United States is the embodiment of evil?

To point out the imperfections of something that is imperfect, and will continue to make mistakes, despite best intentions?

To emphasize the negatives and flaws to create the perception they outweigh the achievements and contributions?

Fuck you...you are an unbalanced, boring blowhard.....

And completely anti-American. That is the point of you and your questions. Nothing more, nothing less. Case closed. File that with your "views" that you are working on.

[seximofo2k]

I dont understand all the "morality" and "international law bullshit. War is war people die, prisoners get torchered etc it comes with the territory. Stop looking at a video like that and making assertions about right and wrong. Have you been in a war? Can say you know that you would act any different when you have people dedicating their lives to kill you?

[xpyrate]

the scary thing is that when the war is over these people are gonna be our neighbors ... and theyre gonna have this instinct not only that but desire to want to kill again ... not the neighbors id want