Right vs Left

[kramadas]

Seems like there is little difference between the right and left, with both sides guilty of many of the same crimes each accuses the other of. The underlying difference between the two is that the right would like to win the world over through force, while the left would like to win the world over through extended diplomacy.

And then there is the far far right (hawks) which thinks itself as superior to other nations in the world and that these nations should be controlled (overtly or covertly).

[jamiroguy1]

Well said.

[pattbateman]

me specifically do not wanna rule the world at all. that is way to much responsibility fuck i gotta final tonight i didnt even study for

[igloo]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Seems like there is little difference between the right and left, with both sides guilty of many of the same crimes each accuses the other of. The underlying difference between the two is that the right would like to win the world over through force, while the left would like to win the world over through extended diplomacy.

And then there is the far far right (hawks) which thinks itself as superior to other nations in the world and that these nations should be controlled (overtly or covertly).

I think your characterization of the right is completely false...I am sure that you would disagree with a characterization of the left as being appeasers, weak, and apologists...

[pattbateman]

i would not igloo

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by igloo

I think your characterization of the right is completely false...I am sure that you would disagree with a characterization of the left as being appeasers, weak, and apologists...

He's was characterizing the "far far right" not "right".

[igloo]

This is old, but thought I would post it again

The second American civil war: what it's about

Dennis Prager (archive)

October 14, 2003 | Print | Send

Whatever your politics, you have to be oblivious to reality to deny that America today is torn by ideological divisions as deep as those of the Civil War era. We are, in fact, in the midst of the Second American Civil War.

Of course, one obvious difference between the two is that this Second Civil War is (thus far) non-violent. On the other hand, there is probably more hatred between the opposing sides today than there was during the First Civil War. And I am not talking about extremists. A senior editor of the respected center-left New Republic just wrote an article titled, "The Case for Bush Hatred," an article that could have been written by writers at most major American newspapers, by most Hollywood celebrities, and almost anyone else left of center. And the conservative hatred of former President Bill Clinton was equally deep.

In general, however, the similarities are greater than the differences. Once again the North and the South are at odds (though many individuals on each side identify with the other). And once again, the fate of the nation hangs in the balance. The two sides' values and visions of America are as incompatible as they were in the 1860s.

For those Americans who do not know what side they are on or who are not certain about what the Second American Civil War is being fought over, I offer a list of the most important areas of conflict.

While the views of many, probably even most, Americans do not fall entirely on either side, the two competing camps are quite distinguishable. On one side are those on the Left -- liberals, leftists and Greens -- who tend to agree with one another on almost all major issues. On the other side are those on the Right -- conservatives, rightists and libertarians -- who agree on stopping the Left, but differ with one another more often than those on the Left do.

Here, then, is Part One of the list of the major differences that are tearing America apart:

The Left believes in removing America's Judeo-Christian identity, e.g., removing "under God" from the Pledge, "In God we trust" from the currency, the oath to God and country from the Boy Scouts Pledge, etc. The Right believes that destroying these symbols and this identity is tantamount to destroying America.

The Left regards America as morally inferior to many European societies with their abolition of the death penalty, cradle-to-grave welfare and religion-free life; and it does not believe that there are distinctive American values worth preserving. The Right regards America as the last best hope for humanity and believes that there are distinctive American values -- the unique combination of a religious (Judeo-Christian) society, a secular government, personal liberty and capitalism -- worth fighting and dying for.

The Left believes that impersonal companies, multinational and otherwise, with their insatiable drive for profits, have a profoundly destructive effect on the country. The Right believes that the legal system, particularly trial lawyers, lawsuits and judges who make laws, is the greater threat to American society.

The Left believes multiculturalism should be the ideal for American schools and for government policy. The Right believes that the Americanization of all its citizens is indispensable to the survival of the United States.

The Left believes that the Boy Scouts as currently constituted pose a moral threat to society. The Right believes the Boy Scouts continue to be one of the greatest moral institutions in the country.

The Left believes in equality more than in liberty. The Right believes more in liberty. For example, the Left believes that for the equality's sake, men's clubs must accept women. The Right believes that for liberty's sake, associations must be free to choose their own members.

The Left believes that when schools give out condoms to teenagers, they are promoting safe sex. The Right believes that when schools give out condoms, they are promoting more sex.

The Left believes that poverty, racism and psychopathology cause violent crime. The Right believes a lack of self-control, lack of religious practice and lack of good values are the primary causes of violent crime.

The Left believes that "war is not the answer." The Right believes that war is often the only answer to governmental evil.

Any one of these differences is enough to create an entirely different America. Added together, the differences suggest people who live in different worlds that are on a collision course.

And I have only listed some of the conflicting views.

Next week, in Part Two, I will discuss the other major conflicts making for the Second American Civil War.

The second American civil war: What it's about: Part II

Dennis Prager (archive)

October 21, 2003 | Print | Send

In part one, I described nine areas of major conflict between the Right and the Left in American life, a conflict that rivals the First Civil War in intensity, though thankfully not in violence. Here in part two, I describe 15 others.

The Left regards American nationalism as dangerous, is more comfortable celebrating world citizenship and prefers that America follow the lead of international organizations such as the United Nations. The Right celebrates American nationalism, distrusts world organizations, prefers that America lead humanity and regards the United Nations as largely a moral wasteland.

The Left believes that sensitivity to minorities' feelings trumps the majority's will. The Right believes that when not immoral, the majority's will trumps that of the minority. For example, because some employees do not celebrate Christmas, the Left believes that organizations should rename their Christmas party the "holiday party." The Right believes that because the vast majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, the party should be called a Christmas party.

The Left believes that a woman must have an unrestricted right to choose an abortion but no right to choose a silicone breast implant. The Right believes that society must decide when abortions are moral and legal but a woman has the right to choose to have a silicone breast implant.

The Left believes that attacking world poverty will greatly reduce Islamic terror. The Right believes that poverty is largely unrelated to Islamic terror.

The Left believes that George W. Bush attacked Iraq mostly for economic gain. The Right believes George W. Bush attacked Iraq to protect America and to change the Arab world for the better.

The Left believes that a high rate of taxation of people who earn more money is a moral imperative. The Right believes that allowing people to keep as much of their money as possible is a moral imperative.

The Left identifies with the values of most university professors in the liberal arts and values their insights. The Right regards most of these professors as moral idiots.

The Left believes that the greatest danger to mankind, as former Vice President Al Gore wrote in his book "Earth in the Balance," is the threat to the environment. The Right believes that the greatest danger to humanity is, as it always has been, human evil.

The Left believes that marriage should be redefined and that judges alone are entitled to do so. The Right believes that the millennia-old definition of marriage as between members of the two sexes is inviolable and that it can't be redefined by jurists.

The Left believes that in terms of parenthood, all a child needs is love, whether that love comes from a single parent, two men, two women or some other adult. The Right believes that children do best with the love of two married parents of the opposite sex.

The Left believes that opposing race-based college dorms, graduation ceremonies, congressional caucuses or professional organizations is racist. The Right believes that race-based college dorms, graduation ceremonies, congressional caucuses and professional organizations are racist.

The Left believes that labeling any enemy of the United States "evil" is wrong. It was wrong when President Ronald Reagan labeled the Soviet Union an "evil empire," and it was wrong when President George W. Bush labeled Iran, Iraq and North Korea an "axis of evil." The Right believes that not labeling such regimes "evil" is a sign of moral confusion and appeasement.

The Left is preoccupied with health. Leftist parents are more likely to believe that it is preferable that their teenager cheat on a test than smoke. Parents on the Right are more likely to believe that it is better that their teenager smoke than cheat.

The Left believes that just as America and the Soviet Union were equally responsible for the Cold War, Israel and the Palestinians are equally responsible for Middle East violence. The Right believes that just as the Soviets were responsible for the Cold War, the Arab enemies of Israel are responsible for Middle East violence.

The Left believes that criticism of Christianity is important and that criticism of Islam is bigoted. The Right believes that criticism of Islam is important and that most criticism of Christianity is bigoted.

I am well aware that not everyone on the Left agrees with every leftist position and not everyone on the Right agrees with every rightist one. Nat Hentoff is a leftist who doesn't support abortion rights; Pat Buchanan is a rightist who doesn't support Israel. But the existence of individual exceptions does not negate the fact that all the positions listed here as Left or Right are correctly labeled.

The fact is that this country is profoundly divided on virtually every major social, personal and political issue. We are in the midst of the Second American Civil War. Who wins it will determine the nature of this country as much as the winner of the first did.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by igloo

I think your characterization of the right is completely false...I am sure that you would disagree with a characterization of the left as being appeasers, weak, and apologists...

I did mean the far far right. And I would not disagree that the far far left is weak, apologetic, etc. Shit, some of the stuff I see makes me sick dude.

[kramadas]

haha funny you posted that Igloo - I've mentioned before that I'm surprised that the party divisions hasn't caused all out war yet.

[igloo]

Originally posted by raver_mania

haha funny you posted that Igloo - I've mentioned before that I'm surprised that the party divisions hasn't caused all out war yet.

I hear ya......the upcoming election is going to be a very interesting time....

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by igloo

I hear ya......the upcoming election is going to be a very interesting time....

Indeed. I think the big issue on election night might be the those electronic voting machines vs. the paper ballots.

[marksimons]

left and right...

some of us are trying to push beyond the normal barriers of left and right, but it's hard.

I usually see left and right in purely economic terms, the spectrum of views on the state, business, trade and taxation, which then leads on to what the government should do and finally how it should do it.

I mean technically speaking liberals and conservatives should be on the same side economically, with social issues and the role of government being the main talking points.

left and right are real leftovers from the 20th century, we need to move beyond them, I mean shit, we don't know what the terms really mean when we use them, do the politicos, and do the public? what's the point in using terms that result in instant reactions, misinterpretations and assumptions.

it's all bollocks - everything.

[seximofo2k]

Originally posted by raver_mania

haha funny you posted that Igloo - I've mentioned before that I'm surprised that the party divisions hasn't caused all out war yet.

You ever watch japanese parliment in session? Those guys get in fist fights with each other all the time its amusing to watch

[pattbateman]

thats how we should do it then we would kick the shit outta the pussy liberals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[starvingartist]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Seems like there is little difference between the right and left, with both sides guilty of many of the same crimes each accuses the other of. The underlying difference between the two is that the right would like to win the world over through force, while the left would like to win the world over through extended diplomacy.

And then there is the far far right (hawks) which thinks itself as superior to other nations in the world and that these nations should be controlled (overtly or covertly).

I usually find your posts insightful but I must wholeheartedly disagree with your statements, lol. The main differences deal with financial policy, but there are also other governmental policies which are inherent to either the right or left. As far as tactics for winning the world over I think you may be outstretching historical events to convey a prevalent left or right ideology, which in reality does not exists. Actions taken during isolated incidents should not be used to generalize a specific party platform, but rathering the re-occuring stances on polices and issues that encompass the specific party and are generally expected is what in fact seperates the right from left.